From ben at ultramotive.com.au Tue Sep 1 20:41:11 2009 From: ben at ultramotive.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Tue Sep 1 20:41:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] For the tinkerers out there Message-ID: <4A9DCD37.90606@ultramotive.com.au> http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_111296/article.html - From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Sep 2 19:06:03 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Sep 2 19:06:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] The cyclopaths -- Spence 339: b3534 -- BMJ Message-ID: Comment in BMJ: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/sep02_1/b3534 The cyclopaths Des Spence, general practitioner, Glasgow destwo@yahoo.co.uk Whoosh-I flew through the air and tumbled onto the grass. The swing wrapped itself over the frame. "Lets go home," I said, grabbing my bike. I can't remember learning to ride a bike; I just always could. No helmets, one kid on the seat, one pedalling, and one on the handle bars. Choppers, Tomahawks, and racers were the playthings of the rich kids with side partings. We rode hand me down hybrids, mongrels with scavenged parts, no brakes, broken spokes, missing pedals, no gears, and steel frames. These were no noble steeds but beasts that chewed our trousers, threw us over the handle bars, or impaled us on the frame. We disrespected them too, kicking or throwing to the ground when the chain slipped or when a tyre punctured. Bicycles were functional and unloved machines. Now, however, people are besotted with bikes. Cyclist doctors are even more tedious than we runner doctors. Their monotone chat is of carbon fibre front forks, titanium frames, hub gears, and gearing ratios. They parade in multicoloured lycra and shaved legs, sporting silly tattoos and even sillier beards. Their language is an incomprehensible dialect of "surfer." Their twitters pollute the blogosphere with rabid environmentalism. Research (sponsored by the government department for totally obvious and unnecessary research) shows that cyclists are fitter and leaner and live longer than their non-sideburned peers. So perhaps it's time to give these benevolent peddlers of health their due-for all said, I like them. I want to cycle to work. Indeed a cycling apostle even convinced me to buy a retro single-speed bike. So why don't I grow a straggly beard and start drinking courgette smoothies? The reason is that I am not unhinged (brave) enough-I don't want to die just yet. Cyclists are exposed to real threats as white vans squeeze them into the kerb, and many drivers seem blind to their extreme vulnerability. But the paradox is that our roads are choked with cars containing frustrated people who would cycle if it wasn't for the threat of cars. And consider all those kids kept captive on the school run. Why aren't cycle paths-a simple solution-core to the government's strategy not just on global warming but also on health? Is our political landscape so denuded that we have lost all biodiversity in new thinking? We must produce an environment in which even normal and sane people can cycle to work. Cite this as: BMJ 2009;339:b3534 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090903/9929cc66/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Sep 2 19:06:55 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Sep 2 19:07:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling Injuries - Ontario Message-ID: http://www.oninjuryresources.ca/downloads/Compass/2009/2009-08-0ICompass -Cycling.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090903/891e5c70/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Sep 2 19:47:15 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Sep 2 19:47:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] YikeBike - The world's first super light electric folding bike. | Urban Freedom Message-ID: Just saw a news article about this. Only problem is it has a 1kw motor! http://www.yikebike.com/ http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/queenstown/2828875/Queenstow n-man-invents-transport-revolution R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090903/2077ecc0/attachment.htm From listjunkie at pobox.com Thu Sep 3 04:57:52 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Thu Sep 3 04:58:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] YikeBike - The world's first super light electric folding bike. | Urban Freedom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B054D54-0C91-4D43-BA3F-3010A3979992@pobox.com> On 03/09/2009, at 10:47 AM, Richard Hockey wrote: > Just saw a news article about this. > > Only problem is it has a 1kw motor! > And don't forget proposed uniform national bike laws from NSW RTA would ban anything which supplies power while you aren't pedalling, which obviously applies here. :-/ (wonder if there will be a bike buy-back...) From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Sep 3 17:39:11 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Sep 3 17:39:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Re: [LotsLessCars] 2010: The Year of the Woman in Transport Message-ID: <20090903223856.QAAT28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Of interest? MY..................................... >Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:50:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: [LotsLessCars] 2010: The Year of the Woman in Transport > >Hi, Eric- >Transportation has an image problem among women. >It needs a PR campaign. I've been involved in >the Cycle Chic movement for more than a year >now. It is one of the single most effective ways >to convince women to try cycling long enough to >feel comfortable doing it: make riding a bicycle >fashionable. Copenhagen, where everyone bikes, >launched the movement. My parisienne girlfriends >are slowly becoming comfortable biking due to >the pervasiveness and ease of the Velib' >program. Here in San Francisco, Cycle Chic has >certainly become trendy -- I see women biking in >dresses all the time now whereas before it was >mostly skater punks (boys) on fixies. > >Do you (and members of the lists) have other >ideas for promoting cycling among women as a >viable form of transportation? How can we make >the Cycle Chic movement more effective? > >(I've been a utilitarian cyclist since the early >'90s but now I dress up to ride my bike across >town. The movement worked on me in reverse.) > >Thanks for all you do! >Lilia >http://liliapilia.blogspot.com/search/label/Cycle%20Chic > >On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Eric Britton ><eric.britton@ecoplan.org> wrote: > > >In this piece the editor of World Streets goes >out on a limb and proposes not only that the >year 2010 should be formally >nominated >as "The Year of the Woman in Transportation" but >also that something resembling gender parity be >established at least as high profile examples in >as many places as possible ? DURING THE YEAR. >(But there is plenty of room for you to make your voice heard too.) > > >_____________________________________________________ >Admit it. We have made a right mess of our transportation arrangements. > > > > >--> Full text of this article appears today in >World >Streets at http://WorldStreets.org/ > > > >--> To read all World Streets articles on >politics click to >http://tinyurl.com/ws-politics > > > > > > >__._,_.___ > > >"LotsLessCars in Cities" at http://lotslesscars.org >Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. >World Car/Free Days at http://worldcarfreeday.com >To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com >Also check out New Mobility Agenda at >http://newmobility.org >Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org >Or call via Skype to "newmobility' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090904/858806fa/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Sep 4 15:29:19 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Sep 4 15:29:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Is Nathan Rees really a cyclist? Message-ID: <557140.79522.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >From the Sydney Morning Herald Ranks swell as Sydney's cyclists take to the streets Jennie Curtin September 5, 2009 - 12:00AM IT'S another of the rites of spring: along with discarding that extra layer of clothing, stepping out for an early morning walk and detecting the scent of jasmine in the air comes the arrival in force of the two-wheeled brigade. Sydney commuters are taking to bicycles with increasing enthusiasm, with numbers more than doubling since 2002, according to RTA figures. And the onset of the warmer weather brings an instant spike in the statistics. The RTA installed counters on cycleways around the city in 2002 to monitor bike usage. In that year, there were an average 2500 riders every weekday; by 2007, the figure had climbed to 4200. The most popular cycle paths are on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, Anzac Bridge and Anzac Parade. There are also considerable numbers riding into the city on some of the major roads, including Oxford Street, Broadway and King Street Newtown, but automatic counters as yet cannot separate bicycles from cars, so numbers are uncertain. And while bikes are hardly likely to ever match it with cars, last year 1.2 million bikes were sold in Australia, outnumbering car sales for the ninth consecutive year. The good news for cyclists is that the more numerous they are, the safer they are, says associate Professor Chris Rissel, from the School of Public Health at Sydney University. ''The data tends to suggest that as more people cycle, drivers become more used to riders around them,'' he said. ''It has a civilising influence on the majority of drivers to have more cyclists around.'' But road rage still features between drivers and cyclists and, indeed, pedestrians. On Pyrmont Bridge, a route shared by walkers and riders, there are near misses daily, many caused by speeding cyclists. As one walker, Ian Sinden, said yesterday: ''It's ironic that, when sharing road space, many cyclists complain about hostile drivers but the cyclists themselves become the aggressors when pedestrians are involved.'' Separate cycle paths help to ease such tensions. City of Sydney has taken the lead in building bike paths, earmarking $70 million over the next four years. It also offers free courses for those new to city commuting and it maintains a fleet of 15 bicycles for staff to use. The NSW Government should follow suit, according to Greens MP Lee Rhiannon. ''The Rees Government is yet to wake up to the cycling renaissance and commit the millions needed to gear Sydney for bikes. In 2005 Michael Costa slashed bike and pedestrian funding by a third. This year the Government only earmarked $6.7 million for cycling, falling short of its 1999 commitment to allocate $25 million a year.'' This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/national/ranks-swell-as-sydneys-cyclists-take-to-the-streets-20090904-fbid.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090904/800d3bca/attachment.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Fri Sep 4 20:55:19 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Fri Sep 4 20:56:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] YikeBike - The world's first super light electricfolding bike. | Urban Freedom In-Reply-To: <9B054D54-0C91-4D43-BA3F-3010A3979992@pobox.com> Message-ID: <3421AA3CB10F4DC0BD837A5EE5DD0A02@norm> Does that apply to cars then Chris? Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: If the rocky earth was a smooth sphere, the ocean would cover it all approx 2500 metres deep. Is that what Noah was thinking? -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Christopher Biggs Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2009 7:58 PM To: BikeQld list Subject: Re: [bikeqld] YikeBike - The world's first super light electricfolding bike. | Urban Freedom On 03/09/2009, at 10:47 AM, Richard Hockey wrote: > Just saw a news article about this. > > Only problem is it has a 1kw motor! > And don't forget proposed uniform national bike laws from NSW RTA would ban anything which supplies power while you aren't pedalling, which obviously applies here. :-/ (wonder if there will be a bike buy-back...) _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From unixbigot at pobox.com Sat Sep 5 21:22:24 2009 From: unixbigot at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Sat Sep 5 21:22:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] YikeBike - The world's first super light electricfolding bike. | Urban Freedom In-Reply-To: <3421AA3CB10F4DC0BD837A5EE5DD0A02@norm> References: <3421AA3CB10F4DC0BD837A5EE5DD0A02@norm> Message-ID: <0DF59A7E-61B2-4F6C-885A-072D2EEB2E5C@pobox.com> On 05/09/2009, at 11:55 AM, Norm Morwood wrote: > Does [proposed no-pedal-no-power restriction for e-bikes] apply to > cars then Chris? > I'm totally in favour of all ComCars being refitted for Polly Power. ;-) --chris From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Sep 15 16:52:10 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Sep 15 16:52:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Teaching new riders about gears? Message-ID: <914189.57031.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am trying to get my wife to use the gears on the MTB. Any suggestion? It is very frustrating. Almost as bad as teaching people to drive :-). Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090915/da93ab02/attachment.htm From Robert.Denham at derm.qld.gov.au Tue Sep 15 21:08:16 2009 From: Robert.Denham at derm.qld.gov.au (Denham Robert) Date: Tue Sep 15 21:08:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Teaching new riders about gears? In-Reply-To: <914189.57031.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <914189.57031.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9B9EE702219E9248868AF5DECEA33762016C4124@INDMAIL.lands.resnet.qg> Good luck. I need to get a new bike for my 9yr old, and looked at bikes on the weekend--all the kids bikes in her size had triple chain ring. Why would you get a 21speed bike for a 9 yearold? I would be happy if they can get the hang of three gears (low/medium/high). ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Wednesday, 16 September 2009 7:52 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] Teaching new riders about gears? Hi all, I am trying to get my wife to use the gears on the MTB. Any suggestion? It is very frustrating. Almost as bad as teaching people to drive :-). Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more . As of 26 March 2009 the Department of Natural Resources and Water/Environmental Protection Agency integrated to form the Department of Environment and Resource Management +----------------------------------------------------------------+ Think B4U Print 1 ream of paper = 6% of a tree and 5.4kg CO2 in the atmosphere 3 sheets of A4 paper = 1 litre of water +----------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090916/cdeb7f60/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Sep 15 22:40:53 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Sep 15 22:41:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Teaching new riders about gears? Message-ID: <20090916034048.IXSF28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Anthony ... I can't help much with teaching how to use the gears except that it is best to start off using ONLY the three (or two) on the chain wheel after setting the rear location to suit the topography ie roughly mid-range. The "fine tuning" can come later ...! You can choose WHERE to cycle so using the gears can be practiced eg slowing down then speeding up at road crossings so the gears are less of a problem. Related directly to the question of learning to cycle, and given it seems the emphasis of BCC cycling policy and funding is on new and inexperienced cyclists, it is essential that bike routes and bike paths provide a "useful" connected network so new and inexperienced cyclists can increase their competency while undertaking "utility" cycling. You asked some time ago (so long ago it should be embarrassing for the City Council and/or the ATU) about cycling route info for cycling to New Farm from the north and northwest suburbs ... I passed on your request to BCC. The reply (link below) arrived a couple of days ago ... and it doesn't seem very helpful ... especially as "temporary" seems to be a very long time to cycle without any quality alternatives given impacts and cycling provisions of the Airport Link and Clem7 projects ... ! http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090916/16487483.jpg The paucity of quality alternative bike routes is evidence of just how few bike routes there actually are and thus how poorly Brisbane is and continues to be for cycling despite all the BCC "spin" ... especially when an area like New Farm is being developed quite densely for offices and other work places as well as for residential uses ... without access by bicycle ...! MY..................................................................... From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Sep 16 17:41:36 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Sep 16 17:41:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] info (missing) about bikeways Message-ID: <20090916224133.VLE28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> The Lord Mayor sends an email Newsletter which usually provides information about various projects which presumably the Lord Mayor sees as important. The September "issue" has a short note under the head "Work commences on more new bikeways" which sounds OK until it turns out that not only are they not bikeways, they are shared footpaths, but also and unlike all the other items and from memory most items in previous editions, there is no link to any further information. It is as if the Lord Mayor and/or Council does not want to provide details about what it is doing and spending in this category perhaps fearing political criticism. Perhaps it is simply designed to let the interested and disinterested community know money is being spent on cycling facilities? Or is it designed so the details are not made available? With Council e-maps unable to be adapted to show current conditions (as indicated in the reply re cycling routes to New Farm), and the cost and confusion of printing frequent updates of the printed bike maps, surely it would be useful to know where the new bits are by map rather than description? If interested, it appears the e-Newsletter should be available at or via www.campbellnewman.com.au or by "subscription". In fact, it would be useful if all cycling-related projects were similarly reported (not necessarily in the LM's e-Newsletter but in those of Ward Councillors) and then collated in the cycling section of Councils website as a reference source. This might help overcome the problem of Council not having e-maps for "temporary" works as well as for new work ... a suggestion worth forwarding to the Chairperson for cycling. MY....................................... From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:50:24 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Wed Sep 16 19:50:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] info (missing) about bikeways Message-ID: Hi Michael, You are quite right with your comments about the lack of information on our various bikeways maps not being detailed or in many cases just plain incorrect. There are currently three sets of maps from Council, two sets are on-line and one is available in print only it seems- each one different. The Active Travel guides they tell me are the most up to date and they don't seem to be available on line, i think you can order them online tho to be mailed out. They are very light on any sort of useful information for a cyclist tho. You can't tell whether a route is a BAZ, a bikelane or what they call a bike route (that seems to be the claytons bikeway where you can beef up your km's of bikeway claim at very little expense). There is no information about whether routes be they on-road or off, are suitable for night travel. Similarly at the back end, the ATU does not have any of this network information available at their finger tips and certainly not the additional information like usage figures, maintenance and accident hot spots, all of that is in separate databases, plans and archives and it is a research operation just to find out when bike symbols were last painted. Swann Rd at Taringa shows on all flavours of the bikeways maps as an on-road bikeway between the Gailey Rd roudabout and Moggil Rd, certainly an important route but what is it in reality? The ATU dont seem to know when I questioned them. Perhaps its a 'bike route', they said, but they at the least have blue directional signs, Swann Rd has nothing but yellow bike on a length of about 50m over one block and a couple right near the roundabout, the rest has nothing. It will remain that way because the bikeways map shows its all ok but there are no plans which show it so there is never a need to maintain symbols. Outbound on Gladstone Rd the maps and pavement show a bikelane but you encounter a bike lane ends sign half way. I had a meeting with the ATU last Monday, not a meeting of choice as it was organised by Mayor Newman and Jude Munro and I knew beforehand that the ATU have zero interest in existing infrastructure, particularly the on-road stuff. I raised the example of the Bilsen Rd on-road bike lane on the Northside which only got re painted after I kicked up a fuss that it had never been re-painted and had been left virtually invisible for many years. There was no interest in this typical situation from the ATU but what really got me was when the new Principal of ATU said that his main problem was the volume of complaints he got from me. I was told that I needed to be more confident in what Council was doing. I asked him to point out an example of one of my complaints which was not important, - he cited the Bilsen Rd example saying - "......it's only an industrial area". Presumably you are not likely to want to do some recreational cycling in an area of high employment, crappy footpath and mixed vehicles. Perhaps you only cycle if you are one of the white collar demographic not the blue ones. When the head of the ATU expresses such a blatant disregard for the role of commuter cycling, there is little hope for Brisbane. Even trying to talk about new infrastructure, the ATU idiosyncratically just defended every single aspect of the Bicentennial upgrade works and design. As far as they are concerned everything was done by the book and to the plan, nothing is wrong. That meeting was such a contrast to the meeting with the Assets Maintenance Manager and his people who were quite willing to identify problems and short comings and address them. I cited a recent example of a new BAZ added near a school pointing out the old bike unfriendly gully grates on the route and asking how it could get designed and built without ever having been checked. I was simply told that the ATU does a thorough audit when these are designed and built and that this thing does not happen. So instead of trying to identify why it happened and to improve the process, they just pretend it does not happen. Where's the sense in that? Sadly, I think there is a false sense of pride in there and they don't want to hear about failures or problems they may have caused. With that sort of attitude coming down from the top of the ATU, I have given up on any more cycling advocacy with BCC. It is not only banging your head against a wall but its invariably a jagged split face block wall at that. That should keep the ATU folk happy at least. One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". I asked why the crossing could not be moved up Miskin to cross straight onto the green lane and bus thoroughfare. I was told there was no refuge there. Well as far as I can see the road is just as wide there, perhaps effectively wider as the two road lanes have merged by then and there would be just as much room for a 2m refuge. I think they just don't think about the possibility of building it, easier just to bodge the one that's there. I pointed out that it is not a designated bus lane either which the QRR would permit cyclists inbound to use and that it would need some Bicycles Excepted supplementary signs as well as the current bus excepted ones. I asked for a breakdown of the $100m - was told to look it up on the net! Hmmm. k Michael Yeates wrote: The Lord Mayor sends an email Newsletter which usually provides information about various projects which presumably the Lord Mayor sees as important. The September "issue" has a short note under the head "Work commences on more new bikeways" which sounds OK until it turns out that not only are they not bikeways, they are shared footpaths, but also and unlike all the other items and from memory most items in previous editions, there is no link to any further information. It is as if the Lord Mayor and/or Council does not want to provide details about what it is doing and spending in this category perhaps fearing political criticism. Perhaps it is simply designed to let the interested and disinterested community know money is being spent on cycling facilities? Or is it designed so the details are not made available? With Council e-maps unable to be adapted to show current conditions (as indicated in the reply re cycling routes to New Farm), and the cost and confusion of printing frequent updates of the printed bike maps, surely it would be useful to know where the new bits are by map rather than description? If interested, it appears the e-Newsletter should be available at or via www.campbellnewman.com.au or by "subscription". In fact, it would be useful if all cycling-related projects were similarly reported (not necessarily in the LM's e-Newsletter but in those of Ward Councillors) and then collated in the cycling section of Councils website as a reference source. This might help overcome the problem of Council not having e-maps for "temporary" works as well as for new work ... a suggestion worth forwarding to the Chairperson for cycling. MY....................................... _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090916/f177ac12/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Sep 17 07:53:26 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Sep 17 07:54:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: [snip] > One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. > I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic > calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". [snip] Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had somebody at Council call me back about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry treatment" and caused problems because motorists got confused and started giving way to cyclists on it (perish the thought). This was reported to have lead to near-accidents as other motorists going (nearly) too fast for the unexpected almost ran up the back of them. The officer I spoke to (in the transport infrastructure unit) also indicated there were no further plans to improve this crossing, not even the holding rails that Cr Magub promised would be restored however many (three?) years ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some improvement, I suggest you give Council a call (3403 8888) and let them know. Cheers, Ian From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Sep 17 07:55:33 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Sep 17 07:56:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) In-Reply-To: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090917225358.L1300@singha.lister.id.au> P.S. for anybody not familiar with the area, here's what we're talking about: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_August_2009.jpg http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_September_2009.jpg http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/North_Toowong_corridor#Crossing_of_Miskin_Street On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: > [snip] >> One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. >> I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic >> calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". > [snip] > > Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had somebody at Council call me back > about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry > treatment" and caused problems because motorists got confused and started > giving way to cyclists on it (perish the thought). This was reported to have > lead to near-accidents as other motorists going (nearly) too fast for the > unexpected almost ran up the back of them. > > The officer I spoke to (in the transport infrastructure unit) also indicated > there were no further plans to improve this crossing, not even the holding > rails that Cr Magub promised would be restored however many (three?) years > ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some > improvement, I suggest you give Council a call (3403 8888) and let them know. > > Cheers, > > Ian > From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Thu Sep 17 21:32:12 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Thu Sep 17 21:38:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) In-Reply-To: <20090917225358.L1300@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: Thanks Ian for separating that one out, I think I probably got carried away in my last rant about Council :) . I pointed out to Council that this crossing point was in MR jurisdiction as they control 50m up the side roads including Miskin St. They said that they had got the nod from MR which really leaves you wondering how that was the case. I was actually a bit surprised when I saw what was really a traffic calming measure on this road and now more surprised that Council did not think it out. It's kinda ironic too that now they have a fresh black crossing there, and have widened the refuge, that cars still think they need to stop if they see a bike on the refuge or heading for it. I would advise cyclists to watch their situation if cars do stop and then beckon them across just in case the car does get rear ended, the motorist might claim that the cyclist was shooting out in front of them. That two into one lane is bad on an intersection that size too. The little dog leg to go from the crossing point(s) to the contra flow green lane is not nice, its a bit off camber and has some trees which shed over it creating a slippery condition for that sharp angle. As Michael Y pointed out, forcing all the cycles on the blind side of the left turning buses (they go left then around the roundabout and back up miskin to turn right into the depot) is a bad move. Most cyclists I have seen just go diagonal onto the green but it looks like there is an obstructing build out from the kerb there planned. The whole thing seemed to just stop after they put that traffic calm 'in the wrong place'. I think by rights the green is supposed to have an edge line too. Right now it is not apparent at night. > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:55:33 +1000 > From: list-bikeqld@lister.dnsalias.net > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) > > P.S. for anybody not familiar with the area, here's what we're talking > about: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_August_2009.jpg > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_September_2009.jpg > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/North_Toowong_corridor#Crossing_of_Miskin_Street > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: > > [snip] > >> One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. > >> I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic > >> calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". > > [snip] > > > > Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had somebody at Council call me back > > about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry > > treatment" and caused problems because motorists got confused and started > > giving way to cyclists on it (perish the thought). This was reported to have > > lead to near-accidents as other motorists going (nearly) too fast for the > > unexpected almost ran up the back of them. > > > > The officer I spoke to (in the transport infrastructure unit) also indicated > > there were no further plans to improve this crossing, not even the holding > > rails that Cr Magub promised would be restored however many (three?) years > > ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some > > improvement, I suggest you give Council a call (3403 8888) and let them know. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ian > > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090917/9b1ac054/attachment.htm From office at cyclingpromotion.com.au Thu Sep 17 21:40:34 2009 From: office at cyclingpromotion.com.au (Cycling Promotion Fund) Date: Thu Sep 17 21:41:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Teaching new riders about gears? In-Reply-To: <200909161700.n8GH07Tm010051@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200909161700.n8GH07Tm010051@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <000301ca3809$69389f20$3ba9dd60$@com.au> Hi Anthony et. al, I did Bicycle Education training a year or so ago and can well remember being taught about gears. The trainer got us on a large outside paved court, and had us ride around in a circle, in a gear we felt comfortable in. For those who didn't know how to find the right gear, he made suggestions and put it in what would presumably be an OK gear. Then he got us, while still riding, to change up a gear in the small chain ring and see how that felt, then again, then again. Then we got it back to the right one and he got us to move down to feel what that felt like. When we were in the 'correct' gear he talked about cadence and how many revolutions per minute we should be doing. I'm pretty sure he said 70. He had the clock and we did the counting. If we weren't doing 70, we were to change our gears until we did (all the while, riding round and around in a circle). This exercise is meant for school children, so I'm not sure if your wife will agree to it. I was amazed by how many of the teachers hadn't ridden in ages and much of this was a revelation to them. I also teach adults to ride bikes from scratch and am certain that the cyclists who don't indicate when turning and don't change gears are those that don't have the confidence to keep their balance, pay attention on the road and do an extra activity. That's simply requires practice. Make sure you ride with those people as much as possible to enable their confidence and stability to grow. Hope that helps. Happy cycling, Kathy Brunning Executive Assistant, Cycling Promotion Fund PO Box 3052 Auburn Victoria 3123 Ph 03-9818-5400 Fax 03-9818-4535 www.rideabike.com.au An initiative of the Bicycling Industry in Australia From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Sep 17 21:57:54 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Sep 17 21:57:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) In-Reply-To: References: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090918025739.UGFN4842.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Ian and Kim ... So the design (?) was designed by BCC "experts", approved by Main Roads "experts" and BQ also "nodded" when "consulted" ... perhaps they were all asleep??? Little wonder then that ....................... :-X ...! MY................ At 12:32 PM 18/09/2009, kim wrote: >Thanks Ian for separating that one out, I think >I probably got carried away in my last rant about Council :) . >I pointed out to Council that this crossing >point was in MR jurisdiction as they control 50m >up the side roads including Miskin St. They said >that they had got the nod from MR which really >leaves you wondering how that was the case. I >was actually a bit surprised when I saw what was >really a traffic calming measure on this road >and now more surprised that Council did not >think it out. It's kinda ironic too that now >they have a fresh black crossing there, and have >widened the refuge, that cars still think they >need to stop if they see a bike on the refuge or >heading for it. I would advise cyclists to watch >their situation if cars do stop and then beckon >them across just in case the car does get rear >ended, the motorist might claim that the cyclist >was shooting out in front of them. That two into >one lane is bad on an intersection that size too. >The little dog leg to go from the crossing >point(s) to the contra flow green lane is not >nice, its a bit off camber and has some trees >which shed over it creating a slippery condition >for that sharp angle. As Michael Y pointed out, >forcing all the cycles on the blind side of the >left turning buses (they go left then around the >roundabout and back up miskin to turn right into >the depot) is a bad move. Most cyclists I have >seen just go diagonal onto the green but it >looks like there is an obstructing build out >from the kerb there planned. The whole thing >seemed to just stop after they put that traffic >calm 'in the wrong place'. I think by rights the >green is supposed to have an edge line too. >Right now it is not apparent at night. > > > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:55:33 +1000 > > From: list-bikeqld@lister.dnsalias.net > > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing > (was Re: info (missing) aboutbikeways) > > > > P.S. for anybody not familiar with the area, here's what we're talking > > about: > > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_August_2009.jpg > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_September_2009.jpg > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/North_Toowong_corridor#Crossing_of_Miskin_Street > > > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: > > > [snip] > > >> One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. > > >> I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic > > >> calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". > > > [snip] > > > > > > Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had > somebody at Council call me back > > > about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry > > > treatment" and caused problems because > motorists got confused and started > > > giving way to cyclists on it (perish the > thought). This was reported to have > > > lead to near-accidents as other motorists > going (nearly) too fast for the > > > unexpected almost ran up the back of them. > > > > > > The officer I spoke to (in the transport > infrastructure unit) also indicated > > > there were no further plans to improve this > crossing, not even the holding > > > rails that Cr Magub promised would be > restored however many (three?) years > > > ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some > > > improvement, I suggest you give Council a > call (3403 8888) and let them know. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >---------- >Insert movie times and more without leaving >Hotmail?. < a >href='http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009' >target='_new'>See how. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: >270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090918/99d4046f/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Thu Sep 17 22:41:16 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Thu Sep 17 22:41:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) aboutbikeways) In-Reply-To: References: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: You can imagine the sequence. Overworked DMR Met Branch functionary briefly eyeballs Council drawing and says yeah, fine. Then the thing actually gets built and the complaints start to roll in. Maybe even a Ministerial. "Sh.t, rip it up, now!" So it's in Council's too hard basket until when, exactly? Five years now, I think. The real problem here isn't Council's bikeway crossing, it's DMR's intersection design. When I briefly studied traffic engineering at UQ decades ago, this brand new two lane roundabout was considered absolute bee's knees. Doubt anyone would be so stupid now. A signalised intersection would function much better, and be much more urban-friendly. I suspect there'd be room for exclusive left and right lanes on Milton outbound, avoiding the high speed left turn rear-ender at the bikeway. There could be some increased storage inbound on the freeway, but stuff 'em. Now that Northlink no longer touches this perhaps something will actually get done. That's assuming the Trans Apex tunnel from here to Dutton Park is finally dead and buried. (Have to be, wouldn't it, when you've just sunk $1B of ratepayer's readies into the other tunnel? "No direct cost to Council...") G. _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Friday, 18 September 2009 12:32 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) aboutbikeways) Thanks Ian for separating that one out, I think I probably got carried away in my last rant about Council :) . I pointed out to Council that this crossing point was in MR jurisdiction as they control 50m up the side roads including Miskin St. They said that they had got the nod from MR which really leaves you wondering how that was the case. I was actually a bit surprised when I saw what was really a traffic calming measure on this road and now more surprised that Council did not think it out. It's kinda ironic too that now they have a fresh black crossing there, and have widened the refuge, that cars still think they need to stop if they see a bike on the refuge or heading for it. I would advise cyclists to watch their situation if cars do stop and then beckon them across just in case the car does get rear ended, the motorist might claim that the cyclist was shooting out in front of them. That two into one lane is bad on an intersection that size too. The little dog leg to go from the crossing point(s) to the contra flow green lane is not nice, its a bit off camber and has some trees which shed over it creating a slippery condition for that sharp angle. As Michael Y pointed out, forcing all the cycles on the blind side of the left turning buses (they go left then around the roundabout and back up miskin to turn right into the depot) is a bad move. Most cyclists I have seen just go diagonal onto the green but it looks like there is an obstructing build out from the kerb there planned. The whole thing seemed to just stop after they put that traffic calm 'in the wrong place'. I think by rights the green is supposed to have an edge line too. Right now it is not apparent at night. > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:55:33 +1000 > From: list-bikeqld@lister.dnsalias.net > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) > > P.S. for anybody not familiar with the area, here's what we're talking > about: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_August_2009.jpg > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_September_2009.jpg > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/North_Toowong_corridor#Crossing_of_Miskin_Street > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: > > [snip] > >> One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. > >> I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic > >> calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". > > [snip] > > > > Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had somebody at Council call me back > > about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry > > treatment" and caused problems because motorists got confused and started > > giving way to cyclists on it (perish the thought). This was reported to have > > lead to near-accidents as other motorists going (nearly) too fast for the > > unexpected almost ran up the back of them. > > > > The officer I spoke to (in the transport infrastructure unit) also indicated > > there were no further plans to improve this crossing, not even the holding > > rails that Cr Magub promised would be restored however many (three?) years > > ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some > > improvement, I suggest you give Council a call (3403 8888) and let them know. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ian > > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090918/f1a84f3a/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Sep 18 00:50:51 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Sep 18 00:51:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing (was Re: info (missing) aboutbikeways) In-Reply-To: References: <20090917223708.N1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090918055042.DYOP28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Exactly ... It actually won IEAust (I think) Award/s ... until recently (perhaps still) displayed in framed glory where I have seen it/them ... somewhere at Main Roads or QT HQs ...! One "solution" would be to make the roundabout non-standard so it has only a ONE LANE exit ... and get rid of the two lane exit problem altogether. The roundabout works OK most of the day ... except peak hours when it is stuffed ie congested, anyway ... so if MR really is becoming "cyclist friendly" why worry about intersection capacity, just make it safer for all. As it turned out I had to go across to Bardon to collect a large bit of gear early this afternoon so I took a little time to have a look at the latest "best possible" at both Dean and at Miskin ... and would you believe, while I was there having a look, three blokes walking crossed Dean Street at the crossing "refuge" and were walking towards the "new" altered footpath and would have reached the blind corner at the same time as a cyclist who was belting outbound along the new "green lane" ... except that he did what I expect many would and will do, left the green lane and went straight out the entry crossing and crossed at speed to the entry to the path into the park ... and was gone ... no fuss ... and MUCH safer and easier AND quicker than following the "designed" route ...! So why is it designed like it is? It is designed for pedestrians. It is located for pedestrians. It is NOT located for cyclists and it is not designed for cyclists. Perhaps somebody in BCC ATU or BQ (and who knows how bikes actually travel) should point out that cyclists find it pretty difficult to turn at right angles on about 1m radius ... made worse if you have to look behind you not just at right angles ... to see if any traffic is coming up behind you in the adjacent lane. Ah well "When will they ever learn?" seems an appropriate theme ...! An idea though might be to invite Cr Matic of Toowong Ward to cycle through there ...??? Start from say somewhere near the Jephson Street and Sylvan Road traffic lights and cycle through to Mt Coot-tha Gardens would be a good test ... even better on the way back. MY................ At 01:41 PM 18/09/2009, Glen Fergus wrote: >You can imagine the sequence. Overworked DMR >Met Branch functionary briefly eyeballs Council >drawing and says yeah, fine. Then the thing >actually gets built and the complaints start to >roll in. Maybe even a Ministerial. "Sh.t, rip >it up, now!" So it's in Council's too hard >basket until when, exactly? Five years now, I think. > >The real problem here isn't Council's bikeway >crossing, it's DMR's intersection design. When >I briefly studied traffic engineering at UQ >decades ago, this brand new two lane roundabout >was considered absolute bee's knees. Doubt >anyone would be so stupid now. A signalised >intersection would function much better, and be >much more urban-friendly. I suspect there'd be >room for exclusive left and right lanes on >Milton outbound, avoiding the high speed left >turn rear-ender at the bikeway. There could be >some increased storage inbound on the freeway, but stuff 'em. > >Now that Northlink no longer touches this >perhaps something will actually get >done. That's assuming the Trans Apex tunnel >from here to Dutton Park is finally dead and >buried. (Have to be, wouldn't it, when you've >just sunk $1B of ratepayer's readies into the >other tunnel? "No direct cost to Council...") > >G. > > >---------- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of kim >Sent: Friday, 18 September 2009 12:32 PM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing >(was Re: info (missing) aboutbikeways) > >Thanks Ian for separating that one out, I think >I probably got carried away in my last rant about Council :) . >I pointed out to Council that this crossing >point was in MR jurisdiction as they control 50m >up the side roads including Miskin St. They said >that they had got the nod from MR which really >leaves you wondering how that was the case. I >was actually a bit surprised when I saw what was >really a traffic calming measure on this road >and now more surprised that Council did not >think it out. It's kinda ironic too that now >they have a fresh black crossing there, and have >widened the refuge, that cars still think they >need to stop if they see a bike on the refuge or >heading for it. I would advise cyclists to watch >their situation if cars do stop and then beckon >them across just in case the car does get rear >ended, the motorist might claim that the cyclist >was shooting out in front of them. That two into >one lane is bad on an intersection that size too. >The little dog leg to go from the crossing >point(s) to the contra flow green lane is not >nice, its a bit off camber and has some trees >which shed over it creating a slippery condition >for that sharp angle. As Michael Y pointed out, >forcing all the cycles on the blind side of the >left turning buses (they go left then around the >roundabout and back up miskin to turn right into >the depot) is a bad move. Most cyclists I have >seen just go diagonal onto the green but it >looks like there is an obstructing build out >from the kerb there planned. The whole thing >seemed to just stop after they put that traffic >calm 'in the wrong place'. I think by rights the >green is supposed to have an edge line too. >Right now it is not apparent at night. > > > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:55:33 +1000 > > From: list-bikeqld@lister.dnsalias.net > > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Miskin St crossing > (was Re: info (missing) about bikeways) > > > > P.S. for anybody not familiar with the area, here's what we're talking > > about: > > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_August_2009.jpg > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Miskin_Street_crossing_September_2009.jpg > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/North_Toowong_corridor#Crossing_of_Miskin_Street > > > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, kim wrote: > > > [snip] > > >> One last note, I did ask about the Toowong bus depot/Miskin St design. > > >> I asked what happened there. They told me that the red traffic > > >> calming/crossing point "was put in the wrong place". > > > [snip] > > > > > > Funnily enough, after a few attempts I had > somebody at Council call me back > > > about this this morning, and was told it was a "residential area entry > > > treatment" and caused problems because > motorists got confused and started > > > giving way to cyclists on it (perish the > thought). This was reported to have > > > lead to near-accidents as other motorists > going (nearly) too fast for the > > > unexpected almost ran up the back of them. > > > > > > The officer I spoke to (in the transport > infrastructure unit) also indicated > > > there were no further plans to improve this > crossing, not even the holding > > > rails that Cr Magub promised would be > restored however many (three?) years > > > ago that it is now. If anybody else here thinks this crossing needs some > > > improvement, I suggest you give Council a > call (3403 8888) and let them know. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >---------- >Insert movie times and more without leaving >Hotmail?. >See >how. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: >270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090918/81aa620d/attachment.htm From viller.uq at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 03:07:33 2009 From: viller.uq at gmail.com (Stephen Viller) Date: Fri Sep 18 03:14:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] ETA: One-way street rules are changing for cyclists (London) Message-ID: [I was a member of the ETA before leaving the UK. They manage to combine a personal roadside assistance service along with campaigning for reduced car use, in stark contrast to RACQ et al.] One-way street rules are changing for cyclists Thursday, 17th September, 2009 Cyclists will be legally entitled to ignore no-entry signs on thousands of one-way streets around the country if a trial in London proves successful. The Department for Transport will change existing road signs around the London borough of Kensington & Chelsea by attaching a small plate that reads ?Except cyclists? to the poles carrying the red and white no-entry symbol. A spokesperson for the Environmental Transport Association (ETA) said: ?The idea of contra-flows for cyclists can seem counter intuitive, but it is important to remember that many of our roads are not cyclist friendly ? a situation that needs to be redressed if we are to encourage this environmentally benign form of transport.? Cycling organisations have suggested that it might be necessary to reduce the speed limit to 20mph on some roads with contra-flow lanes to avoid the risk that cyclists will feel intimidated by oncoming traffic. http://www.eta.co.uk/2009/09/17/one-way-street-rules-are-changing-cyclists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090918/75652db9/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat Sep 19 15:36:49 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat Sep 19 15:37:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike-mounted videocam? Message-ID: <664289.32241.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Given the poor maps we have out there of getting around Brisbane. Do you think it would be worthwhile to get some video of people's actual rides? I have seen helmet mounted videocam advertised. Are they worth it? Has anyone here tried one? Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090919/e2f0921b/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sun Sep 27 06:18:47 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sun Sep 27 06:18:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October Message-ID: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Congratulations Queensland and thankyou to the Qld Gov for building yet another superb facility for non-motorised transport. $64M is a big chunk of change but worth it. Kurilpa Bridge On Sunday 4 October 2009 the Kurilpa Bridge will be officially opened by the Honourable Anna Bligh MP, Premier of Queensland, in a ceremony at Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. Following the official proceedings, celebrations will continue throughout Kurilpa Park and the Cultural Centre with a smorgasbord of live family entertainment, children?s activities and a free sausage sizzle, proudly supported by 4KQ while stocks last. When: Sunday 4 October 2009. Where: Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. Time: Opening Ceremony starts at 10.30 am, with celebrations in Kurilpa Park until 2.30 pm. Kurilpa Bridge will be open for public access from 11 am. People wishing to cross the Kurilpa Bridge on Sunday 4 October 2009 should do so from Kurilpa Park. The use of public transport is recommended as parking will be limited. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Sun Sep 27 06:57:25 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Sun Sep 27 06:57:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is this bridge primarily a pedestrian bridge to connect the CBD directly to the Arts precinct? The artists impression picture they had there during the construction ominously did not show any cyclists. Will it connect into the Melbourne St on-road bike lane as a primary route between the CBD and West End? Right now the Goodwill does not connect into Vulture St or Melbourne St very well; the main roads into west end. Given the Council's $100m cycling budget for 4 years, $64m State Gov spend does seem like a lot to me unless there was a lot in it for cyclists with that connection. The State seems to prefer these big spends like the Normanby-Roma St underpass and Toowong-Botanic Gardens bridge which don't really seem to add greatly to the bikeways network. k mich rolling wrote: > Congratulations Queensland and thankyou to the Qld Gov for building yet another superb facility for non-motorised transport. $64M is a big chunk of change but worth it. > > Kurilpa Bridge > > On Sunday 4 October 2009 the Kurilpa Bridge will be officially opened by the Honourable Anna Bligh MP, Premier of Queensland, in a ceremony at Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. > > Following the official proceedings, celebrations will continue throughout Kurilpa Park and the Cultural Centre with a smorgasbord of live family entertainment, children?s activities and a free sausage sizzle, proudly supported by 4KQ while stocks last. > > When: Sunday 4 October 2009. > Where: Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. > Time: Opening Ceremony starts at 10.30 am, with celebrations in Kurilpa Park until 2.30 pm. > > Kurilpa Bridge will be open for public access from 11 am. People wishing to cross the Kurilpa Bridge on Sunday 4 October 2009 should do so from Kurilpa Park. > > The use of public transport is recommended as parking will be limited. > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Sep 27 07:21:27 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Sep 27 07:21:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... as that too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way towards (Upper) Roma Street. As there has been many years of planning of "integrated cycling networks", presumably some "magic" changes planned to occur in the CBD between now and October 4 ..? Sadly it is almost 100% certain the same will be able to be said when the Hale Street Bridge is complete too as it seems it was planned with no useful connectivity beyond connecting to the Coro Drive "Bicentennial" footpath. MY............... At 09:57 PM 27/09/2009, kim wrote: >Is this bridge primarily a pedestrian bridge to >connect the CBD directly to the Arts precinct? >The artists impression picture they had there >during the construction ominously did not show >any cyclists. Will it connect into the Melbourne >St on-road bike lane as a primary route between >the CBD and West End? Right now the Goodwill >does not connect into Vulture St or Melbourne St >very well; the main roads into west end. Given >the Council's $100m cycling budget for 4 years, >$64m State Gov spend does seem like a lot to me >unless there was a lot in it for cyclists with >that connection. The State seems to prefer these >big spends like the Normanby-Roma St underpass >and Toowong-Botanic Gardens bridge which don't >really seem to add greatly to the bikeways network. >k > > >mich rolling wrote: >>Congratulations Queensland and thankyou to the >>Qld Gov for building yet another superb >>facility for non-motorised transport. $64M is a >>big chunk of change but worth it. >> >>Kurilpa Bridge >> >>On Sunday 4 October 2009 the Kurilpa Bridge >>will be officially opened by the Honourable >>Anna Bligh MP, Premier of Queensland, in a >>ceremony at Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. >>Following the official proceedings, >>celebrations will continue throughout Kurilpa >>Park and the Cultural Centre with a smorgasbord >>of live family entertainment, children???s >>activities and a free sausage sizzle, proudly >>supported by 4KQ while stocks last. >> >>When: Sunday 4 October 2009. >>Where: Kurilpa Park, South Brisbane. Time: >>Opening Ceremony starts at 10.30 am, with >>celebrations in Kurilpa Park until 2.30 pm. >> >>Kurilpa Bridge will be open for public access >>from 11 am. People wishing to cross the Kurilpa >>Bridge on Sunday 4 October 2009 should do so from Kurilpa Park. >>The use of public transport is recommended as parking will be limited. >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________________________________________________________ >>Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >>Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: >270.13.113/2397 - Release Date: 09/26/09 17:51:00 From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sun Sep 27 07:34:30 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sun Sep 27 07:34:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October Message-ID: <582871.17236.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Kurilpa Bridge is probably aimed at all of the above. 1. It completes a pedestrian loop from Roma Street station and gardens, to Queens Street Mall (for morning tea), through the Botanic Gardens, South Bank (for lunch), GOMA (for smoko)and back to Roma Street 2. Cycle link from West End development zone, through George/Roma Street legal precinct, up to Normandy and Kelvin Grove Creative Industries and out to Royal Brisbane Hospital health precinct. 3. Pedestrian pressure relief on the Victoria Bridge to allow Victoria Bridge to be more friendly to remaining peds (with less chance of cyclists holding up buses) 1,2&3 all boost the cycle network so cyclists still win whatever the ulterior motives. Similarly, Toowong freeway bridge was as much about avoiding disruption to freeway traffic as it was about increasing safety/amenity for cyclists. Ditto Normandy although that was more directly about cyclists. Always interesting that politicians dress these facilities up as cycle provision but neglect to nominate their effect on freeing car traffic (which would justify paying for the facilities from roads funds rather than Active Transport budgets). Anyone have other ideas? __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From scott.rowan at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 19:03:37 2009 From: scott.rowan at gmail.com (Scott Rowan) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:03:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> There are some photos on the page below of the works at the CBD end of the bridge to provide connections for the cyclists. As with all these things, there are sure to be some problems but it all contributes to providing a better experience for cyclists in Brisbane: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19411&sid=43b6a7dbee1622ed42155eb37de720cd Cheers, Scott 2009/9/27 Michael Yeates > At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the > question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... as that > too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way towards (Upper) Roma > Street. > > As there has been many years of planning of "integrated cycling networks", > presumably some "magic" changes planned to occur in the CBD between now and > October 4 ..? > > Sadly it is almost 100% certain the same will be able to be said when the > Hale Street Bridge is complete too as it seems it was planned with no useful > connectivity beyond connecting to the Coro Drive "Bicentennial" footpath. > > MY............... > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090928/dea86caf/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Sep 27 19:32:21 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:32:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090928003207.JQYF28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks very much Scott ... As I said, "... between now and October 4 ..." ... and I plead guilty to not having seen it late last week ... ;-) I can't quite figure out how to get from the bridge to say Adelaide Street though (maybe through the "new" KGS?)... or is it assumed that network connection isn't needed by cyclists including those not using the bridge? Although it is too early to tell from the excellent photos (thanks for passing them on), I do agree with the/your observations especially where the conflict problems that are created by bike lanes at intersections are (apparently) not being addressed ... however they could be ... if it turns out the traffic light phasing and bicycle detection is done well ie to reduce or avoid cyclist conflict with other users. Beware of the "better than nothing" concept as some 15 - 20 years of my cycling advocacy confirms that support for poor quality/quantity infrastructure often means waiting a very long time to get it fixed or replaced, and as with the current expenditure, and as commented elsewhere, much of it is NOT for cyclists, but for motorists and/or pedestrians but comes from the cyclists budget or is claimed to be for cyclists ... yet it is designed primarily with pedestrians and/or motorists in mind ... hence the choice of bike lanes is probably politically astute while in practice is a means to restrict cyclists to "their" space ... except where difficult ... and yes when it does get replaced, it again comes from the cycling budget. Being thankful for small mercies has its rather obvious benefits ... but also comes with some much less obvious disadvantages ... some as pointed out ... others as old as (or older than) the problem created/illustrated by the gift of a Trojan Horse ...! It will be very informative to see it after October 4 ... ie in normal use ... and to see how well it works ... and for whom ...! MY.............. At 10:03 AM 28/09/2009, Scott Rowan wrote: >There are some photos on the page below of the works at the CBD end >of the bridge to provide connections for the cyclists. As with all >these things, there are sure to be some problems but it all >contributes to providing a better experience for cyclists in Brisbane: > >http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19411&sid=43b6a7dbee1622ed42155eb37de720cd > >Cheers, > >Scott > > >2009/9/27 Michael Yeates <michael@yeatesit.biz> >At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the >question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... >as that too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way >towards (Upper) Roma Street. > >As there has been many years of planning of "integrated cycling >networks", presumably some "magic" changes planned to occur in the >CBD between now and October 4 ..? > >Sadly it is almost 100% certain the same will be able to be said >when the Hale Street Bridge is complete too as it seems it was >planned with no useful connectivity beyond connecting to the Coro >Drive "Bicentennial" footpath. > >MY............... > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2399 - Release Date: >09/27/09 17:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090928/b506fbcd/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Sep 27 19:32:28 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:32:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <469842.78109.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Scott, I can't see any images on the page. Is the page not Firefox friendly? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Scott Rowan To: Michael Yeates Cc: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 28 September, 2009 10:03:37 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October There are some photos on the page below of the works at the CBD end of the bridge to provide connections for the cyclists. As with all these things, there are sure to be some problems but it all contributes to providing a better experience for cyclists in Brisbane: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19411&sid=43b6a7dbee1622ed42155eb37de720cd Cheers, Scott 2009/9/27 Michael Yeates >At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... as that too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way towards (Upper) Roma Street. > >>As there has been many years of planning of "integrated cycling networks", presumably some "magic" changes planned to occur in the CBD between now and October 4 ..? > >>Sadly it is almost 100% certain the same will be able to be said when the Hale Street Bridge is complete too as it seems it was planned with no useful connectivity beyond connecting to the Coro Drive "Bicentennial" footpath. > >>MY............... > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090927/43162d43/attachment.htm From scott.rowan at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 19:38:47 2009 From: scott.rowan at gmail.com (Scott Rowan) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:38:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <469842.78109.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> <469842.78109.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <867a90909271738u48896adco7fddfc2306f8fb49@mail.gmail.com> Hi Anthony, I'm using Firefox and it works OK for me. Perhaps an adblocker or some other program is preventing them from being displayed?? Here's a direct link to the photobucket page where the images are hosted: http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/beauyboy/ Cheers, Scott 2009/9/28 Anthony Lee > Hi Scott, > > I can't see any images on the page. Is the page not Firefox friendly? > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090928/f69f213a/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Sep 27 19:57:14 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Sep 27 19:57:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <867a90909271738u48896adco7fddfc2306f8fb49@mail.gmail.com> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <867a90909271703q38f1b86cl880e7eb5aece6795@mail.gmail.com> <469842.78109.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <867a90909271738u48896adco7fddfc2306f8fb49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <588717.37336.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry Scott it is the stupid work proxy. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Scott Rowan To: Anthony Lee Cc: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 28 September, 2009 10:38:47 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October Hi Anthony, I'm using Firefox and it works OK for me. Perhaps an adblocker or some other program is preventing them from being displayed?? Here's a direct link to the photobucket page where the images are hosted: http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/beauyboy/ Cheers, Scott 2009/9/28 Anthony Lee Hi Scott, > >I can't see any images on the page. Is the page not Firefox friendly? > > Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >>........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090927/b8b61cd6/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Sep 28 01:33:18 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Sep 28 01:33:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <20090928072652.B1300@singha.lister.id.au> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: > At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the > question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... as > that too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way towards > (Upper) Roma Street. Not for much longer. There's a new bi-directional, protected bike lane along George St between Turbot St and Herschel St: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:George_Street_bike_lane_start_September_2009.jpg There was even parking removed to make space for it, and it arguably connects to the new bike lanes that were marked around Roma St, Turbot St, etc for the King George Square cycle centre. Not so well to the Bicentennial Bikeway, though. Cheers, Ian From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Mon Sep 28 10:54:26 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Mon Sep 28 12:17:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October Message-ID: <576539.88564.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the photos Scott. Photos and maps greatly enhance our understanding of what is being done. Has an overall plan for bicycle routes in the western end of the CBD been published anywhere? I mean a plan with more detail than general desired cycle connectivity lines. I assume the Tank Street cycleway up George St to Turbot is primarily to link with the (to be built) bike/ped bridge from the Magistrates Court to Roma St gardens over Roma Street. This will almost complete a separated ped/bike route from Royal Brisbane Hospital to West End. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From listjunkie at pobox.com Mon Sep 28 17:36:41 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Mon Sep 28 17:37:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <20090928072652.B1300@singha.lister.id.au> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090928072652.B1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <4AC13A79.4090503@pobox.com> Ian Lister wrote: > > [Geo. st bike lane] arguably > connects to the new bike lanes that were marked around Roma St, Turbot > St, etc for the King George Square cycle centre. Not so well to the > Bicentennial Bikeway, though. > The initial plan for Kurilpa bridge included a ramp from the bridge down to North Quay not far from the Ann st bikeway entrance. It was deleted due to "heritage tree impact". Didn't see those trees that got butchered to make way for Hale st works sustain much in the way of impact... --chris From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Sep 29 02:08:01 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Sep 29 02:08:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <20090928072652.B1300@singha.lister.id.au> References: <608343.3519.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090927122116.NMNQ10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090928072652.B1300@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090929070743.PINI28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Ian and others ... The lack of any info being forwarded in response to this (and the later emails on the same subject) seems to indicate that not many of "us" know what is being done ... In my view and from a cycling (and walking and disabled access) point of view, surely the CBD starts on the Queen Street side of the two ONE WAY, multi-lane, NO-CYCLIST-facilities, 60km/h "main roads" viz Ann and Turbot Streets where BCC even refused to add BIKE symbols to the BUS LANE symbols. But exactly how DO you get from say the Turbot Street intersection in the photo below to say Adelaide Street ... surely not on the footpath ... in the CBD ... and yes, of course it is not illegal. Anyone know if cycling through KGS is provided for in the new plans or are we still to be "permitted" to use the road beside the front entry contraflow ...? The other question with all this is why bother with protected bike lanes in a 40km/h area (esp when it is highly likely to be 30km/h in the not too distant future when Oz governments finally understand how Europe is dealing with all the transport related issues) when a protected contra-flow is really all that is needed? Surely not provided in order to require cyclists NOT share the roads? Would cycling on the road and not in the bike lane be justified by trying to avoid the pedestrian crossings and footpath waiting areas ... even if they are not congested or crowded? Mmmmmmmmmmm ... >:-} BTW, at the "new" red steps (is it red because that is where the former TLC building was?) there is now what appears at first glance to be a bike lane uphill (very sensible) in Edward Street from Ann Street but yet again as with most of this stuff, it suffers from incredible lack of design detail eg it is being used for car parking as it only has the white BIKE symbols so it isn't legally a bike lane ... and it has no signs to control its use or proclaim it a BIKE LANE ... and it ends by running into the back of legally parked cars ... There are so many more "silly" designs being rolled out (in Brisbane) that sadly it seems likely someone cycling will be killed or seriously injured doing what the facility appears to suggest ... MY...................... At 04:33 PM 28/09/2009, Ian Lister wrote: >On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: >>At the level of network utility and connectivity, there is also the >>question of how cyclists connect to and from it at the CBD end ... >>as that too is most unclear ... esp as George Street is one way >>towards (Upper) Roma Street. > >Not for much longer. There's a new bi-directional, protected bike >lane along George St between Turbot St and Herschel St: > >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:George_Street_bike_lane_start_September_2009.jpg > >There was even parking removed to make space for it, and it arguably >connects to the new bike lanes that were marked around Roma St, >Turbot St, etc for the King George Square cycle centre. Not so well >to the Bicentennial Bikeway, though. > >Cheers, > >Ian > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2399 - Release Date: >09/27/09 17:52:00 From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Sep 29 03:28:40 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Sep 29 03:28:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <582871.17236.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <582871.17236.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mich, I can see the obvious pedestrian benefits to link up with the new arts precinct. I had questioned when they refurbished the Victoria Bridge walkway railings and lights, why they did not put in light weight shade canopies and was told that the bridge was not strong enough to support these and I guess too that the Kurillpa Bridge was in the pipeline at that stage. At least this new bridge has some shade for pedestrians although it may cause the same dilemma as it moves across during the day as on the Goodwill. I think they should not bother to divide it directionally, leave it up to common sense. It does connect ok into Riverside Drv on that end of West End which will be good when that is further developed but when you look at the new Riverside Drv bikeway/ shared path you have to wonder if Council has learned anything from their experience with the Centennial bikeway on the other side of the river. This new path is not separated or illuminated and there are no watering holes or shelters along the way. At one point on the unlit path you just run head on into a railing/fence strung across this path, with no reflective devices or lighting to announce its presence. I really don't get the impression that this pathway is designed to carry cycle traffic and question the merits of making the effort to connect into this path as opposed to having a good connection into the Melbourne St lanes (and don't forget we have had a few cycle accidents there from the Vic Bridge and Grey St Bridge including a fatality) perhaps there is more planned to connect these links up? The connection into what is a very main cycleway (the North Quay end of the Centennial) is pretty round about. That seems like a real shortcoming given that the Melbourne St/ Vic Bridge bikeway similarly has no direct connection. I also wonder if this bridge was ever planned to fit in with proposed Northbank developments at the time, or like most other things was done in isolation. I am sure the CBD side was more challenging. I can recall Alton from the ATU saying it was difficult to work with the State Gov on that project. I was there yesterday afternoon looking at the route when coincidently I ran into Simon (Alton's sucessor) from the ATU on his way home. I chatted for a short while. Simon also confirmed that basically State Gov just landed a bridge on Tank St and said 'just work with that'. It was not necessarily the most optimal place as far as bikes were concerned. Simon did make a good point in that it was quite a 'win' to actually get back some road real estate for bike only purposes, which they have done. I am puzzled by the build out on the corner of George St and Herschel St. I cant remember how that used to be, I think it was just a left turn lane but not sure as there is a dicky arrangement with a bus lane after you cross Herschel St. It kind of looks temporary perhaps because of the gantry works there for the new Courts building but we may all be surprised if it winds up being permanent and you have to cut the corner on the footpath through pedestrians. The exit from Parklands Blvd onto Roma St does not seem to have changed. If you are turning right onto Roma to do this new dog leg onto Tank St do you take it from the green bike lane on the left or do you take the regular lane? Right now it seems like left turning cars may conflict with right turning bikes. There is a related issue here with the proposed changes to the QRR which never came about earlier this year. Perhaps a storage bay in front of the car stop line might be a solution. There is also the footpath and pedestrian/cycle crossing at that point which maybe BCC are intending to be used. I noticed that one of the green crossing bicycles was out of order there too, not a good look for a grand opening! I actually think they could have provided a more direct link into the QUT KG campus rather than that expensive underpass. We already had a lightly used route (Parkland Blvd) which lands you right out at Gregory Tce intersection. Surely we could have put a bike facility on-road there from which you can access the bridge across the ICB and rail to KG campus and better used the money elsewhere? Right now the tunnel takes you up the far end and you end up having to come back along the old path behind the schools and by the railway which is a bit of a no-mans land, unlit, unsafe at night, druggie graffitti abound and plenty of bushes adjacent, not exactly a safe afterhours commute and yet the new tunnel and parkland route have all the lights and cameras. I think if the original plan to connect to the ICB had happened it could have been fine, but now that the ICB looks like being a total no go zone for bikes its a damn shame and just another pleasant ride in a park. I am not sure about the benefits that will be afforded to the Vic Bridge peds, I would have thought that if we spent 60+ on the new pedestrian bridge we might count on pedestrians using it and then reconfigure the Vic bridge for cyclists. I am not sure of the issue with cyclists holding up buses that you mention on the Vic. k mich rolling wrote: > The Kurilpa Bridge is probably aimed at all of the above. > > 1. It completes a pedestrian loop from Roma Street station and gardens, > to Queens Street Mall (for morning tea), through the Botanic Gardens, > South Bank (for lunch), GOMA (for smoko)and back to Roma Street > > 2. Cycle link from West End development zone, through George/Roma Street > legal precinct, up to Normandy and Kelvin Grove Creative Industries and > out to Royal Brisbane Hospital health precinct. > > 3. Pedestrian pressure relief on the Victoria Bridge to allow Victoria > Bridge to be more friendly to remaining peds (with less chance of cyclists > holding up buses) > > 1,2&3 all boost the cycle network so cyclists still win whatever the > ulterior motives. > > Similarly, Toowong freeway bridge was as much about avoiding disruption to > freeway traffic as it was about increasing safety/amenity for cyclists. > Ditto Normandy although that was more directly about cyclists. Always > interesting that politicians dress these facilities up as cycle provision > but neglect to nominate their effect on freeing car traffic (which would > justify paying for the facilities from roads funds rather than Active > Transport budgets). > > Anyone have other ideas? > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >