From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 1 00:36:45 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 1 00:37:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Crikey today: "Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians" Message-ID: <20091001053659.ORAF28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Gee Crikey ... This following (and correct argument BTW) might stir some thought ... hopefully useful thought .. given it seems BCC and MR (no longer sure where QT stands or sits in relation to cyclists and motorists "Share the Road" campaigns) is determined to build off-road paths and even build bike lanes where arguably unnecessary ... in order to at least imply that cyclists should comply with the following edict (and I quote) "... responsible cycling is to use bike paths where possible and if it?s not possible, to be extra careful on the roads ..." completely ignoring the fact that cyclists are legitimate road users under Australian road rules and in most cases, it is the motorist that is not complying with the law aka ARRs. It is clear that pedestrians don't enjoy cyclists overtaking or coming in the opposite direction at 20, 30 or 40 or more km/h ...far too close ... yet "shared paths" by design, permit this. Clearly there should be NO shared paths and footpath cycling should be banned ... as in most of the rest of Oz or subject to a condition that places the onus on cyclists. For Queensland, perhaps the solution is a "10km/h speed limit within 20m of a pedestrian on a shared or any other footpath" such that in the event of an injury collision, the onus is on the cyclist ... so the cyclist can try to explain how a collision occurred and could not be avoided. MY................... Subject: Crikey today: "Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians" >Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:45:03 +1000 > > >15 . Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians > >Ava Hubble writes: > >It's Walk to Work and Walk to School Day >tomorrow and no doubt politicians will be out >and about supporting the enterprise. > >Yet the authorities have allowed Australia's >footpaths to become danger zones for >pedestrians. Despite a law that prohibits anyone >over the age of 12 from riding a bike on a >footpath, that law is blatantly and increasingly >flouted by many cyclists. Meanwhile, despite >this law, the chairman of the Pedestrian >Council, Harold Scruby, reports that local >councils are converting more and more footpaths >into "shared pathways" for the use of cyclists >and pedestrians. The trouble is many cyclists >seem to ignore the "Give way to pedestrians" >signs and proceed at speed, dodging and weaving >along shared pathways as though they were ahead >and nearing the finish line in the Tour de >France. Scruby says that pedestrians are losing >a sacred right that dates back to Roman times: >the right to the exclusive use of the footpath. > >Despite the growing concern about the >environment and obesity, intolerant, menacing >motorists are believed to have been primarily >responsible for the retreat by many cyclists >from the roads to the footpaths. Why, when it >became obvious a decade or more ago, that >Australians were taking up cycling in huge >numbers, was so lix?!???????lZb ttle, >apparently, done by the authorities to protect >cyclists from the intimidating, life-threatening >behaviour of thuggish drivers? As Scruby notes, >the authorities can "spot an illegally parked >car from Mars". So why, given 21st-century >detection/deterrent techniques, did our >politicians and bureaucrats fail so miserably to >ensure a fair go for cyclists on our roads? > >Now, of course, it's the pedestrians who are >complaining about being the victims of >intimidating cyclists. There is plenty of >anecdotal evidence to suggest that all too often >the reaction of cyclists to shouted objections >about their recklessness is an obscene gesture >as they ride off and/or a torrent of >foul-mouthed abuse and calls for more dedicated >cycleways. Do steriods sometimes prompt this >type of behaviour, or is it possible that >cycling clubs coach their members to show >aggression in an effort to discourage >pedestrians from speaking up after a frightening encounter? > >Meantime, although Scruby stresses that many >cyclists do behave well, he is continuing to >campaign for the introduction of a 10km/h speed >limit on bike paths. He also insists bike paths >should be separated from footpaths. In January >he was reported in the Port Phillip Leader as >saying that councils have exposed themselves to >massive damages claims from people who are >injured as a result of using shared bike and >pedestrians paths. It was also reported that >this assertion was supported by legal advice >from leading Sydney law firm Slater & Gordon, >which also said the RTA could be sued as it was >part of the cycleway approval process. > >Scruby has put forward a plan that includes >fines for cyclists who speed and are otherwise >guilty of negligent cycling,x?!???????lZb as >well as a comprehensive identification system >for cyclists and number plates for their bikes. > >One of the main complaints at present is that >cyclists who hit and run are often able to >escape any redress or punishment because they >cannot be identified. They are not presently >obliged to display any kind of identification >and because most do seem to comply with the >requirement to wear protective helmets (and >sometimes goggles) it's almost impossible to identify them. > > >http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/footpaths-are-danger-zones-for-pedestrians/#comment-39422 > >SEE: >http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp?pageid=3194 > >and > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15903157?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_Defaultx?!???????lZb >ReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum > > >1: Annu Proc Assoc Adv Automot Med. 2008 Oct;52:215-23. > > >Teaching young children to cross roads safely. > > > >Oxley >J, >Congiu >M, >Whelan >M, >ed_RVAbstractPlus>D'Elio A, >Charlton >J. > >Monash University Accident Research Centre, Melbourne, Australia. > >Road safety education is considered essential to >teach children to interact with traffic safely. >Many programs, however, do not consider the >separate component skills of the road-crossing >task, the functional and behavioural factors >that may put some children at increased risk, >and the most beneficial methods to transfer >knowledge to improved behaviour in real-world >environments. A targeted and practical training >program using a simulated road environment has >been developed and evaluated amongst primary >school children using a randomised controlled >trial. Significant reductions in proportion of >critically incorrect road-crossing responses >were found immediately after training (56%) and >one-month post-training (47%) by the case group >compared with pre-training responses, and >relative to any changes in responses of the >control group. The beneficial effects were >greater for younger children, females, children >with less well developed perceptual, attentional >and cognitive skills, and those with little >traffic exposure. The effects of the training >program on other outcome measures (proportion of >missed opportunity responses, decision time and >safety rating responses) were less clear but >showed some beneficial effects. This paper >discusses the use of the simulated training >program, a novel and safe way, to improve road >crossing decisions. It is suggested that >improvements can be made to child pedestrian >education by providing tailored and practical >programs that target the component skills of >road-crossing decisions and improve essential >skills through intensive training and feedback on known risk factors. > > > >1: Br J Educ Psychol. 1998 Dec;68 ( Pt 4):475-91.Links > > >The effectiveness of parents in promoting the >development of road crossing skills in young children. > > > >Thomson >JA, >Ampx?!???????lZb >ofo-Boateng K, >Lee >DN, >Grieve >R, >Pitcairn >TK, >Demetre >JD. > >Department of Psychology, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland. > >BACKGROUND: Young children show poor judgment >when asked to select a safe place to cross the >road, frequently considering dangerous sites to >be safe. Correspondingly, child pedestrian >accidents are over-represented at such >locations. Increasing the child's ability to >recognise such dangers is a central challenge >for road safety education. AIMS: Practical >training methods have proved effective in >improving such judgments but are >labour-intensive, time-consuming and therefore >difficult to implement on a realistic scale. The >study examined the possibility that volunteers >from the local community might be capable of >using such methods to promote children's >pedestrian competence. SAMPLE: Sixty children >from the Primary 1 (Reception) classes of three >Glasgow schools took part. Volunteers were >ordinary parents from the same areas. None had >'formal' experience of working with children >other than through being parents. METHOD: >Volunteers rx?!???????lZb eceived experience of >training children at courses organised in each >school. Children learned in small groups, >receiving two sessions of roadside training >followed by four on a table-top model. Pre- and >post-tests allowed the effectiveness of training >to be assessed. RESULTS: Significant >improvements relative to controls were found in >all children following training. Improvements >proved robust and no deterioration was observed >two months after the programme ended. Comparison >with a previous study in which training was >undertaken by highly qualified staff showed that >the volunteers were as effective as 'expert' >trainers. CONCLUSIONS: Parent volunteers can >significantly increase the pedestrian competence >of children as young as five years. They >constitute a most valuable 'resource' in road >safety education. The opportunities afforded by >involving the local community in educational >interventions should be further explored. > > >: Am J Public Health. 2003 >Sep;93(9):1456-63. >Click here to read > > >Click here to read > Links > > >A review of evidence-based traffic engineering >measures designed to reduce pedestrian-motor vehicle crashes. > > > >Retting >RA, >Ferguson >SA, >McCartt >AT. > >Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 1005 N. >Glebe Road, Arlington, VA 22201, USA. >rretting@iihs.org > >We provide a brief critical review and >assessment of engineering modifications to the >built environment that can reduce the risk of >pedestrian injuries. In our review, we used the >Transportation Research Information Services >database to conduct a search for studies on >engineering countermeasures documented in the >scientific literature. We classified >countermeasures into 3 categories-speed control, >separation of pedestrians from vehicles, and >measures that increase the visibility and >conspicuity of pedestrians. We determined the >measures and settings with the greatest >potential for crash prevention. Our review, >which emphasized inclusion of studies with >adequate methodological designs, showed that >modification of the built environment can >substantially reduce the risk of pedestrian-vehicle crashes. > > >: Inj Control Saf Promot. 2004 Dec;11(4):231-7.Links > > >Community-based programmes to prevent pedestrian >injuries in children 0-14 years: a systematic review. > > > >Turner >C, >McClure >R, >_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>Nixon J, >Spinks >A. > >School of Population Health, Mayne Medical >School, University of Queensland, Brisbane, >Australia. C.turner@nursing.uq.edu.au > >BACKGROUND: Community-based models for injury >prevention have become an accepted part of the >overall injury control strategy. This systematic >review of the scientific literature examines the >evidence for their effectiveness in reducing >pedestrian injury in children 0-14 years of age. >METHODS: A comprehensive search of the >literature was performed using the following >study selection criteria: community-based >intervention study; target population was >children under 14 years; outcome measure is >either pedestrian injury rates or observed child >pedestrian or vehicle driver behaviour; and use >of a community control or an historical control >in the study design. Quality assessment and data >abstraction was guided by a standardized >procedure and performed independently by two >authors. Data synthesis was in tabular and text >form with meta-analysis not being possible due >to the discrepancy in methods and measures >between the studies. RESULTS: The review found >four studies that met all the inclusion >criteria. The three studies using injury as >their outcome measure found a 12%, 45% and 54% >reduction for all childhood injuries with the >fourth showing improved traffic control at child >pedestrian sites (9% reduction in traffic flow) >and sustainable community safety promotion >activity. CONCLUSION: There is a paucity of >research studies in the literature from which >evidence regarding the effectiveness of >community-based programmes for the prevention of >pedestrian injury in children can be drawn. >However, the hypothesis tx?!???????lZb hat >community-based interventions are effective in >reducing the incidence of childhood pedestrian >injury would appear to be supported, with the >degree of success being cumulative depending on >the complexity of individual strategies employed. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.0/2406 >- Release Date: 09/30/09 18:56:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091001/28f9f15b/attachment-0001.htm From ben at ultramotive.com.au Thu Oct 1 00:51:08 2009 From: ben at ultramotive.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Oct 1 00:53:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Crikey today: "Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians" In-Reply-To: <20091001053659.ORAF28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20091001053659.ORAF28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <4AC4434C.9000301@ultramotive.com.au> Judging by the lack of use of the mega wide bikeway through the tennis centre (everyone uses the road instead), probably don't have much to worry about!! They've usefully managed to have an entrance point only at the beginning and end of the path really.. Still getting from Paddington to southbank / west end will still be disastrous by bike even with the new bridge I think. A mountain bike, stairs and footpaths are the go. hmm Are stairs outlawed? anyone yet tried riding down the flight of stairs at the back of the barracks there?!! I just use the bus lane then jump across roma st (three lanes) instead. PS Anyone intending to cycle out past Samford way they've put concrete blocks for a few km on one of the shoulders on Dayboro Rd., pretty bad I reckon. Some kind of earthworks going on there... Ben. Michael Yeates wrote: > Gee Crikey ... > > This following (and correct argument BTW) might stir some thought ... > hopefully useful thought .. given it seems BCC and MR (no longer sure > where QT stands or sits in relation to cyclists and motorists "Share > the Road" campaigns) is determined to build off-road paths and even > build bike lanes where arguably unnecessary ... in order to at least > imply that cyclists should comply with the following edict (and I > quote) "... responsible cycling is to use bike paths where possible > and if it's not possible, to be extra careful on the roads ..." > completely ignoring the fact that cyclists are legitimate road users > under Australian road rules and in most cases, it is the motorist that > is not complying with the law aka ARRs. > > It is clear that pedestrians don't enjoy cyclists overtaking or coming > in the opposite direction at 20, 30 or 40 or more km/h ...far too > close ... yet "shared paths" by design, permit this. Clearly there > should be NO shared paths and footpath cycling should be banned ... as > in most of the rest of Oz or subject to a condition that places the > onus on cyclists. > > For Queensland, perhaps the solution is a "10km/h speed limit within > 20m of a pedestrian on a shared or any other footpath" such that in > the event of an injury collision, the onus is on the cyclist ... so > the cyclist can try to explain how a collision occurred and could not > be avoided. > > MY................... > > Subject: Crikey today: "Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians" >> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:45:03 +1000 >> >> >> *15 . Footpaths are danger zones for pedestrians >> * >> /Ava Hubble writes:/ >> >> It's/ Walk to Work/ and /Walk to School Day/ tomorrow and no doubt >> politicians will be out and about supporting the enterprise. >> >> Yet the authorities have allowed Australia's footpaths to become >> danger zones for pedestrians. Despite a law that prohibits anyone >> over the age of 12 from riding a bike on a footpath, that law is >> blatantly and increasingly flouted by many cyclists. Meanwhile, >> despite this law, the chairman of the Pedestrian Council, Harold >> Scruby, reports that local councils are converting more and more >> footpaths into "shared pathways" for the use of cyclists and >> pedestrians. The trouble is many cyclists seem to ignore the "Give >> way to pedestrians" signs and proceed at speed, dodging and weaving >> along shared pathways as though they were ahead and nearing the >> finish line in the Tour de France. Scruby says that pedestrians are >> losing a sacred right that dates back to Roman times: the right to >> the exclusive use of the footpath. >> >> Despite the growing concern about the environment and obesity, >> intolerant, menacing motorists are believed to have been primarily >> responsible for the retreat by many cyclists from the roads to the >> footpaths. Why, when it became obvious a decade or more ago, that >> Australians were taking up cycling in huge numbers, was so >> lix?!?0/00?????lZb ttle, apparently, done by the authorities to >> protect cyclists from the intimidating, life-threatening behaviour of >> thuggish drivers? As Scruby notes, the authorities can "spot an >> illegally parked car from Mars". So why, given 21st-century >> detection/deterrent techniques, did our politicians and bureaucrats >> fail so miserably to ensure a fair go for cyclists on our roads? >> >> Now, of course, it's the pedestrians who are complaining about being >> the victims of intimidating cyclists. There is plenty of anecdotal >> evidence to suggest that all too often the reaction of cyclists to >> shouted objections about their recklessness is an obscene gesture as >> they ride off and/or a torrent of foul-mouthed abuse and calls for >> more dedicated cycleways. Do steriods sometimes prompt this type of >> behaviour, or is it possible that cycling clubs coach their members >> to show aggression in an effort to discourage pedestrians from >> speaking up after a frightening encounter? >> >> Meantime, although Scruby stresses that many cyclists do behave well, >> he is continuing to campaign for the introduction of a 10km/h speed >> limit on bike paths. He also insists bike paths should be separated >> from footpaths. In January he was reported in the /Port Phillip >> Leader /as saying that councils have exposed themselves to massive >> damages claims from people who are injured as a result of using >> shared bike and pedestrians paths. It was also reported that this >> assertion was supported by legal advice from leading Sydney law firm >> Slater & Gordon, which also said the RTA could be sued as it was part >> of the cycleway approval process. >> >> Scruby has put forward a plan that includes fines for cyclists who >> speed and are otherwise guilty of negligent cycling,x?!?0/00?????lZb >> as well as a comprehensive identification system for cyclists and >> number plates for their bikes. >> >> One of the main complaints at present is that cyclists who hit and >> run are often able to escape any redress or punishment because they >> cannot be identified. They are not presently obliged to display any >> kind of identification and because most do seem to comply with the >> requirement to wear protective helmets (and sometimes goggles) it's >> almost impossible to identify them. >> >> >> / >> http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/10/01/footpaths-are-danger-zones-for-pedestrians/#comment-39422 >> >> / >> /SEE: http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp?pageid=3194 >> / >> /and >> / >> / >> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15903157?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_Defaultx?!?0/00?????lZb >> ReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum >> >> / >> / >> *1: *Annu Proc Assoc Adv Automot Med. 2008 Oct;52:215-23. >> >> / >> >> >> *Teaching young children to cross roads safely.* >> >> / >> >> * Oxley J >> *, >> *Congiu M* >> , >> *Whelan M* >> , >> *D'Elio A* >> , >> *Charlton J* >> . >> >> Monash University Accident Research Centre, Melbourne, Australia. >> >> Road safety education is considered essential to teach children to >> interact with traffic safely. Many programs, however, do not consider >> the separate component skills of the road-crossing task, the >> functional and behavioural factors that may put some children at >> increased risk, and the most beneficial methods to transfer knowledge >> to improved behaviour in real-world environments. A targeted and >> practical training program using a simulated road environment has >> been developed and evaluated amongst primary school children using a >> randomised controlled trial. Significant reductions in proportion of >> critically incorrect road-crossing responses were found immediately >> after training (56%) and one-month post-training (47%) by the case >> group compared with pre-training responses, and relative to any >> changes in responses of the control group. The beneficial effects >> were greater for younger children, females, children with less well >> developed perceptual, attentional and cognitive skills, and those >> with little traffic exposure. The effects of the training program on >> other outcome measures (proportion of missed opportunity responses, >> decision time and safety rating responses) were less clear but showed >> some beneficial effects. This paper discusses the use of the >> simulated training program, a novel and safe way, to improve road >> crossing decisions. It is suggested that improvements can be made to >> child pedestrian education by providing tailored and practical >> programs that target the component skills of road-crossing decisions >> and improve essential skills through intensive training and feedback >> on known risk factors. >> >> >> >> *1: *Br J Educ Psychol. 1998 Dec;68 ( Pt 4):475-91.Links >> >> / >> >> >> *The effectiveness of parents in promoting the development of >> road crossing skills in young children.* >> >> / >> >> * Thomson JA >> *, >> *Ampx?!?0/00?????lZb ofo-Boateng K* >> , >> *Lee DN* >> , >> *Grieve R* >> , >> *Pitcairn TK* >> , >> *Demetre JD* >> . >> >> Department of Psychology, University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, Scotland. >> >> BACKGROUND: Young children show poor judgment when asked to select a >> safe place to cross the road, frequently considering dangerous sites >> to be safe. Correspondingly, child pedestrian accidents are >> over-represented at such locations. Increasing the child's ability to >> recognise such dangers is a central challenge for road safety >> education. AIMS: Practical training methods have proved effective in >> improving such judgments but are labour-intensive, time-consuming and >> therefore difficult to implement on a realistic scale. The study >> examined the possibility that volunteers from the local community >> might be capable of using such methods to promote children's >> pedestrian competence. SAMPLE: Sixty children from the Primary 1 >> (Reception) classes of three Glasgow schools took part. Volunteers >> were ordinary parents from the same areas. None had 'formal' >> experience of working with children other than through being parents. >> METHOD: Volunteers rx?!?0/00?????lZb eceived experience of training >> children at courses organised in each school. Children learned in >> small groups, receiving two sessions of roadside training followed by >> four on a table-top model. Pre- and post-tests allowed the >> effectiveness of training to be assessed. RESULTS: Significant >> improvements relative to controls were found in all children >> following training. Improvements proved robust and no deterioration >> was observed two months after the programme ended. Comparison with a >> previous study in which training was undertaken by highly qualified >> staff showed that the volunteers were as effective as 'expert' >> trainers. CONCLUSIONS: Parent volunteers can significantly increase >> the pedestrian competence of children as young as five years. They >> constitute a most valuable 'resource' in road safety education. The >> opportunities afforded by involving the local community in >> educational interventions should be further explored. >> >> >> *: *Am J Public Health. 2003 Sep;93(9):1456-63. Click here to read >> >> Click here to read >> >> Links >> >> / >> >> >> *A review of evidence-based traffic engineering measures designed >> to reduce pedestrian-motor vehicle crashes.* >> >> / >> >> * Retting RA >> *, >> *Ferguson SA* >> , >> *McCartt AT* >> . >> >> Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 1005 N. Glebe Road, >> Arlington, VA 22201, USA. rretting@iihs.org >> >> We provide a brief critical review and assessment of engineering >> modifications to the built environment that can reduce the risk of >> pedestrian injuries. In our review, we used the Transportation >> Research Information Services database to conduct a search for >> studies on engineering countermeasures documented in the scientific >> literature. We classified countermeasures into 3 categories-speed >> control, separation of pedestrians from vehicles, and measures that >> increase the visibility and conspicuity of pedestrians. We determined >> the measures and settings with the greatest potential for crash >> prevention. Our review, which emphasized inclusion of studies with >> adequate methodological designs, showed that modification of the >> built environment can substantially reduce the risk of >> pedestrian-vehicle crashes. >> >> >> *: *Inj Control Saf Promot. 2004 Dec;11(4):231-7.Links >> >> / >> >> >> *Community-based programmes to prevent pedestrian injuries in >> children 0-14 years: a systematic review.* >> >> / >> >> * Turner C >> *, >> *McClure R* >> , >> *Nixon J* >> , >> *Spinks A* >> . >> >> School of Population Health, Mayne Medical School, University of >> Queensland, Brisbane, Australia. C.turner@nursing.uq.edu.au >> >> >> BACKGROUND: Community-based models for injury prevention have become >> an accepted part of the overall injury control strategy. This >> systematic review of the scientific literature examines the evidence >> for their effectiveness in reducing pedestrian injury in children >> 0-14 years of age. METHODS: A comprehensive search of the literature >> was performed using the following study selection criteria: >> community-based intervention study; target population was children >> under 14 years; outcome measure is either pedestrian injury rates or >> observed child pedestrian or vehicle driver behaviour; and use of a >> community control or an historical control in the study design. >> Quality assessment and data abstraction was guided by a standardized >> procedure and performed independently by two authors. Data synthesis >> was in tabular and text form with meta-analysis not being possible >> due to the discrepancy in methods and measures between the studies. >> RESULTS: The review found four studies that met all the inclusion >> criteria. The three studies using injury as their outcome measure >> found a 12%, 45% and 54% reduction for all childhood injuries with >> the fourth showing improved traffic control at child pedestrian sites >> (9% reduction in traffic flow) and sustainable community safety >> promotion activity. CONCLUSION: There is a paucity of research >> studies in the literature from which evidence regarding the >> effectiveness of community-based programmes for the prevention of >> pedestrian injury in children can be drawn. However, the hypothesis >> tx?!?0/00?????lZb hat community-based interventions are effective in >> reducing the incidence of childhood pedestrian injury would appear to >> be supported, with the degree of success being cumulative depending >> on the complexity of individual strategies employed. >> / >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.0/2406 - Release Date: >> 09/30/09 18:56:00 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -- Ben Guymer RPEQ Ultramotive Technologies P/L 5 / 148 Tennyson Memorial Drive Tennyson Q 4104 Ph. 07-3217 1175 Mob.:0414 759 907 Fx. 07-3217 1165 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091001/7221bc35/attachment-0001.htm From maccahill at hotmail.com Thu Oct 1 08:09:42 2009 From: maccahill at hotmail.com (michael cahill) Date: Thu Oct 1 08:09:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Mee area Message-ID: I was coming out of the Mt Mee State Forest on Sellin Rd today and was surprised to see a dirt road Peaks Road or similar (the Gantry area end of the reserve) which had a sign banning horses and bicycles and allowing 4wd and motor bikes. I have never seen that before and am wondering if anyone knows the extent of these bans. The road seems to connect with Mount Byron Road (dirt) and ultimately the Wivenhoe Somerset Road. A real shame for off main road tourists if this is common Michael _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091001/66c64c53/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Oct 1 08:50:42 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Oct 1 08:50:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Mee area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000701ca429e$2caafdb0$8600f910$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I suggest you ask on mtbdirt.com.au P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of michael cahill Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2009 11:10 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Mee area I was coming out of the Mt Mee State Forest on Sellin Rd today and was surprised to see a dirt road Peaks Road or similar (the Gantry area end of the reserve) which had a sign banning horses and bicycles and allowing 4wd and motor bikes. I have never seen that before and am wondering if anyone knows the extent of these bans. The road seems to connect with Mount Byron Road (dirt) and ultimately the Wivenhoe Somerset Road. A real shame for off main road tourists if this is common Michael _____ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091001/adbd10d1/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Thu Oct 1 21:13:08 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Thu Oct 1 21:13:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Meearea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29AA9F3351074F36A294F8ADE7C24F7E@golder.gds> Can you get a pic? Sounds bizarre. The horse thing may be related to a change of tenure from state forest to national park (which excludes domestic animals). But why exclude bicycles where (street legal) motorised trail bikes are still permitted? G. _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of michael cahill Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2009 11:10 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Meearea I was coming out of the Mt Mee State Forest on Sellin Rd today and was surprised to see a dirt road Peaks Road or similar (the Gantry area end of the reserve) which had a sign banning horses and bicycles and allowing 4wd and motor bikes. I have never seen that before and am wondering if anyone knows the extent of these bans. The road seems to connect with Mount Byron Road (dirt) and ultimately the Wivenhoe Somerset Road. A real shame for off main road tourists if this is common Michael _____ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091002/a215e095/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Fri Oct 2 01:48:14 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Fri Oct 2 01:48:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Meearea In-Reply-To: <29AA9F3351074F36A294F8ADE7C24F7E@golder.gds> References: <29AA9F3351074F36A294F8ADE7C24F7E@golder.gds> Message-ID: <002101ca432c$5874c4b0$095e4e10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> It will be interesting to find out what's going on - and the answer may lie at mtbdirt.com.au. It might be to do with safety and also with accommodating trail bike riders. Once when riding in the Brisbane Forest Park I was overtaken by some dirt bikes (not allowed in the park) going fast and it was quite unpleasant, with all the dust. Another time riding MTB in Montville I nearly got axed by a dirt bike coming around a corner at speed. Much as I dislike motorised "sport" (use your own motor!), it exists and might need to be accommodated safely. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Glen Fergus Sent: Friday, 2 October 2009 12:13 PM To: Bikeqld Subject: RE: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Meearea Can you get a pic? Sounds bizarre. The horse thing may be related to a change of tenure from state forest to national park (which excludes domestic animals). But why exclude bicycles where (street legal) motorised trail bikes are still permitted? G. _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of michael cahill Sent: Thursday, 1 October 2009 11:10 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bicycles and horses banned from a road in the Mount Meearea I was coming out of the Mt Mee State Forest on Sellin Rd today and was surprised to see a dirt road Peaks Road or similar (the Gantry area end of the reserve) which had a sign banning horses and bicycles and allowing 4wd and motor bikes. I have never seen that before and am wondering if anyone knows the extent of these bans. The road seems to connect with Mount Byron Road (dirt) and ultimately the Wivenhoe Somerset Road. A real shame for off main road tourists if this is common Michael _____ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091002/3f5b71c0/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Oct 4 15:14:17 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Oct 4 15:14:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <264439.28694.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This survey sounds useful. And you can get a T-shirt. it's taken quite a while, but we've finally launched our Queensland Cycle Survey, as of today it's your chance to tell us why you ride, where you ride, how much you ride & any glorious injuries you've received while riding. you can complete survey online: www.carrsq.qut. edu.au/cyclingsu rvey.jsp or I can send you a paper copy: 31384944; cyclesurvey@ qut.edu.au please pass it on to anyone you know who rides, any kind of bike at all (tandem, bmx, track, downhill, triathlon, road, hybrid). cheers, amy Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __,_._,___ __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091004/85d0d6d0/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun Oct 4 15:58:54 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Oct 4 15:59:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Survey In-Reply-To: <264439.28694.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <264439.28694.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01ca4535$7d26abb0$77740310$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> This would be from the group that in their last survey and paper, basically concluded that bikes got hit by cars because the driver didn?t see them till too late (oh boy) and the solution was in cyclist education (obviously the cyclist?s fault for not being seen!). P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 6:14 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] Survey This survey sounds useful. And you can get a T-shirt. it's taken quite a while, but we've finally launched our Queensland Cycle Survey, as of today it's your chance to tell us why you ride, where you ride, how much you ride & any glorious injuries you've received while riding. you can complete survey online: www.carrsq.qut. edu.au/cyclingsu rvey.jsp or I can send you a paper copy: 31384944; cyclesurvey@ qut.edu.au please pass it on to anyone you know who rides, any kind of bike at all (tandem, bmx, track, downhill, triathlon, road, hybrid). cheers, amy Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __,_._,___ _____ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091005/bebf93fd/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Oct 4 18:22:42 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Oct 4 18:23:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Survey In-Reply-To: <001a01ca4535$7d26abb0$77740310$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <264439.28694.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001a01ca4535$7d26abb0$77740310$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20091004232244.SBDN22446.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Pete and Anthony and interested others, Interesting news ... thanks for the info and comments ... Yep it is a pity too that because CARSS-Q is (perhaps inevitably?) so much funded by road authorities and other government agencies and it has quite a few staff who are former employees of such agencies which in itself isn't necessarily a problem if they and their research unit are fearless and their briefs etc are transparent and open to public scrutiny and critique. Clearly it is difficult to get funding for research that might be critical of government especially so if both the researchers and the government know the research is likely, perhaps inevitably, to be critical. And sadly, in my view and experience over some 20 or more years, and more recently with CARRS-Q, they know. To illustrate, here are some further examples. #1 ... It is easier to research whether the whole or partial population consider older drivers should have a restricted licence than it is to see what might cause or contribute to older drivers (as a group) tending to drive slower ... could it be that it is safer and easier for ALL road users (ie motorised, cyclists, pedestrians and of all ages and abilities) if ALL urban road traffic was to move slower? #2 ... It is easy to blame "victims" and/or the "powerless" eg cyclists or pedestrians, and for the "research" to appear legit, rather more difficult to question a dominant belief system embedded by up to 14 years of "road safety" education ie from K-12 ... so is it "safer" for all road users to separate/segregate these "vulnerable" road users (and would they be likely to agree to that) or would it be safer for all if urban road traffic was to move slower given those 14 years or more of "education" followed by "x" years of experience on the roads as currently used and managed? #3 ... Is research based only or primarily on community experience in a current road "environment" valid or biased, if the majority of those surveyed have insufficient, little or no experience of other road operational environments eg the increasingly dominant 30/50 speed limits in urban Europe and the 20mph in UK and 25mph in parts of the USA? #4 ... The cyclists v motorist "what makes motorists and cyclists mad with each other" adversarial mentality is endemic ... yet arguably addressing this at the level of individual behaviour etc is biased if the system level requirements eg speed limits, road design, road operational management, etc are not open to change or critique or research. One example is the previous "trial" of 30km/h speed limits in SCHOOL ZONES instead of the current 40km/h. There is a similar "trial" either starting today or soon to see as to whether 40km/h can be applied to SCHOOL ZONES on two lane each way roads. Are the trials and their conditions etc, and results and findings available for public scrutiny? If not, why not? #5 ... Given the "new" cycle lanes in George/Tank/Turbot, etc and the new "spiny" bridge, anyone thought much about why the cycle lanes were/are deemed necessary or what other alternatives might have been applied that were "better" (or worse) and for whom? #6 ... To what extent if at all, does the current CARRS-Q research project and/or the survey referred to below, address issues such as those above? Might it act to bring forward, or delay, research in these and related areas at a whole of or wider, population level? To what extent might it have been more (or less) useful and beneficial (and to whom) if that research or similar have been implemented ... perhaps instead of the current project? In other words, if the Australian road authorities and related government agencies know the roads could and can be managed very differently AND achieve a far "safer" (used here to include the many related issues which are inevitably compromised eg convenience, priority, etc) outcome and there is strong evidence that can be drawn upon from both here and overseas, then is much of the "safety" and related research essentially being funded and undertaken so it does not question critically what some of us might argue is obvious ... namely that urban speed limits are too high and roads designed and managed and operated accordingly ... causing or contributing to many of the "problems" that are the topic of research esp in relation to cyclists, pedestrians, and other particular groups eg older drivers, etc, rather than ALL road users? So if cyclists ride where they ride because other locations are (or are perceived as) too dangerous or too inconvenient (eg too long waiting at traffic lights to cross a road) or too polluted (due to what?) etc, then research derived from cyclists stating where they ride may well be self-serving for the government agencies ie it might well endorse the current situation ... and thereby remove or hide any incentive or need to address the issues and concerns that lead to other routes not being used or indeed to choice of other modes than cycling ... Or as the previous research Pete referred to seems to suggest, much research can result in what is commonly described as "blaming the victim" or as blaming (or concern for) the vulnerable road users ... but why are they so vulnerable is the question and what options are there to make the roads both safer and more convenient for all road users? This isn't a new issue of course ... if interested, try a search in GOOGLE for < safety+convenience > then try < "safety+convenience" Queensland cycli* > ... or for a somewhat different view, try < "sharing the road" > ...etc etc etc ... If you wish, you could even see what you get if you add < Yeates > to those searches ...! Care needed with surveys ...?? BTW, when I do get to read the survey, I am hoping at least some the above is no longer the case ... just wondering how long to wait ...! MY .................. At 06:58 AM 5/10/2009, Peter Whittle wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01CA4589.4ED2BBB0" >Content-Language: en-au > >This would? be from the group that in their >last survey and paper, basically concluded that >bikes got hit by cars because the driver >didn???t see them till too late (oh boy) and the >solution was in cyclist education (obviously the >cyclist???s fault for not being seen!). > >P > >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee >Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 6:14 AM >To: BIQ >Subject: [bikeqld] Survey > >This survey sounds useful. And you can get a T-shirt. > >it's taken quite a while, but we've finally >launched our Queensland Cycle Survey, as of >today it's your chance to tell us why you ride, >where you ride, how much you ride & any glorious >injuries you've received while riding. > >you can complete survey online: >www.carrsq.qut. >edu.au/cyclingsu rvey.jsp >or I can send you a paper copy: 31384944; >cyclesurvey@ qut.edu.au > >please pass it on to anyone you know who rides, >any kind of bike at all (tandem, bmx, track, >downhill, triathlon, road, hybrid). > >cheers, >amy > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > >__,_._,___ > > >Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 >- Release Date: 10/04/09 18:42:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091005/0c256dfd/attachment-0001.htm From i.golledge at qut.edu.au Sun Oct 4 18:55:29 2009 From: i.golledge at qut.edu.au (Ian Golledge) Date: Sun Oct 4 18:56:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Survey In-Reply-To: <001a01ca4535$7d26abb0$77740310$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <264439.28694.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001a01ca4535$7d26abb0$77740310$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4384523FC597BC4280957FE96C4E73F10C0AFB7D2F@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> If that is the case, they have zero credibility and I wouldn?t bother with their survey. Ian Golledge From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 6:59 AM To: 'Anthony Lee'; 'BIQ' Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Survey This would be from the group that in their last survey and paper, basically concluded that bikes got hit by cars because the driver didn?t see them till too late (oh boy) and the solution was in cyclist education (obviously the cyclist?s fault for not being seen!). P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 6:14 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] Survey This survey sounds useful. And you can get a T-shirt. it's taken quite a while, but we've finally launched our Queensland Cycle Survey, as of today it's your chance to tell us why you ride, where you ride, how much you ride & any glorious injuries you've received while riding. you can complete survey online: www.carrsq.qut. edu.au/cyclingsu rvey.jsp or I can send you a paper copy: 31384944; cyclesurvey@ qut.edu.au please pass it on to anyone you know who rides, any kind of bike at all (tandem, bmx, track, downhill, triathlon, road, hybrid). cheers, amy Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __,_._,___ ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more<%20http:/au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http:/us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lhaG9vIQ--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A/au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/%20%0a>. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091005/cbb7785d/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Oct 5 20:37:27 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Oct 5 20:37:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Lowering the default speed limit in residential areas: opportunities for policy influence and the role of public health professionals -- Pilkington 15 (5): 352 -- Injury Prevention Message-ID: New in Injury Prevention. http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/15/5/352 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091006/2057a964/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon Oct 5 23:38:01 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon Oct 5 23:38:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation Message-ID: >From www.bq.org.au St Lucia bikeway consultation 6 October 2009 Brisbane City Council is asking for cyclists' feedback on the next stage of a bikeway through St Lucia (along The Esplanade, part of the 'river loop'). A public consultation will be held on Saturday, 10 October 2009, 2-4pm at St Lucia Uniting Church hall, 7 Hawken Drive (opposite Ironside State School), or you can email your opinion to communityfeedback@bigpond.com. Of the options presented, BQ slightly favours the one-way option. See the PDFs (about 1mb each) linked below for details. * Two-way option * One-way option (sheet 1, sheet 2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091006/6ba12166/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Oct 6 00:43:16 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Oct 6 00:43:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091006/2f153de6/attachment.htm From indocc at ozemail.com.au Tue Oct 6 02:42:45 2009 From: indocc at ozemail.com.au (colin freestone) Date: Tue Oct 6 02:43:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycle Indonesia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi there fellow cyclists. > The THIRD Cycle Indonesia trip takes place Feb 2010. > Details at http://www.cycleindonesia.com.au/toraja/. > 5 places left. > Colin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091006/19c463da/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Oct 6 17:35:44 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Oct 6 17:36:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091006223600.SAVL10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Well said Kim ... Another aspect from a cyclists point of view is it forces cyclists off the road and onto the path given it seems nobody has considered ONE WAY towards UQ ... if for no other reason than then being able to cycle up the small incline west of St Lucia shopping centre then roll DOWN the very steep Tarcoola Street ... but then what happens to the intersections at both ends of Tarcoola Street? Council is giving nothing away in regard to the detail of the proposed "upgrade" to the Tarcoola and Hawken Drive intersection where having reached the top of this steep climb, odds on traffic in both directions would have right of way under the current ONE WAY proposal. It is hard to imagine having spent or committed up to $5-6m or more of the $100m "bikeways budget" (or is that "bike PATH budget"?) on this link, that BCC would then give cyclists "on the road" any priority over traffic on either Hillside Terrace or The Esplanade at the Tarcoola Street intersection Then add in that Council is again "promising" to install the BAZ on The Esplanade while despite similar previous "promises" when Carawa Street was widened some 2 years ago and as part of Stage 1 of this "bikeway" along Hillside Terrace (the 20 year "bike route") which Council says is completed in 2008 ... where NEITHER have the BAZ despite regular requests and reminders. It is also worth noting that this work is in the Ward of Councillor Prentice who is well aware of the issues involved (the more so now she is the BCC Chair of cycling) yet still Council refuses to "complete" work that was "promised" ...! Even the Councillor and Chairperson can't get the previously "promised" work done ... so why believe any more "promises" ? To me the ONE WAY option is little more than an attempt to get support from people who have not thought through the consequences ... not only here but in general. There are always advantages for someone who will then loudly support them. Perhaps the ONE WAY option is also intended to (further?) split the support aka by "wedging" ? But if there is some merit in it, then why not just ban parking on the route already well used by cyclists uphill on Highland Terrace from say 6-9am to create a BIKE LANE uphill to Hawken Drive, do nothing else although a speed limit less than 50 would be sensible, and use Hawken Drive through to UQ but also from here access through the middle of St Lucia towards the CBD etc? As this is virtually all here now, all it needs is so signs and BIKE symbols for the BIKE LANE ... so no need for the $5-6m paths? And no need to use Tarcoola Street? The real question is why the whole route from the Jack Pesch Bridge to UQ has been regularly (and it seems quite deliberately) degraded if not downgraded from a well signed BIKE ROUTE to an ordinary road with hardly a cycling-friendly sign on it ... it seems then the $5-6m bike path is just an attempt to reduce cycling "on the road" to not only benefit motorists as Kim points out below, but to remove the nuisance of cyclists from the roads to and from UQ. But in practice who will use it? It has poor or no connections to the nearby residences and streets. It is not particularly safe either at speed or from a personal security perspective. And the Stage 2 option Council seems to keep pushing involves removing a lot more trees along what is a remarkable and very rare river edge "natural" area from UQ to almost the Indooroopilly Bridges. Hopefully nobody who cycles thinks that should be reduced...!. So should ANY of the funding be taken from the $100m budget for "cycling" ? Of course "we" always happy to be convinced otherwise ... but need to be convinced by evidence "on the road", not by more vague "promises" ...! That "evidence" would have the BAZ from Indooroopilly station to UQ in both directions "on the road". Anyone who wants more details, please feel free to ask. Essentially it is a path not needed ... that is, there are much higher priority areas where the same money could be better spent ... than building paths that duplicate former BIKE ROUTES ... assuming BCC has indeed downgraded this route ... as based on the evidence, is the case ...! MY .................... At 03:43 PM 6/10/2009, kim wrote: >Thanks Pete, So now the latest 'option', the one-way option, seems >to want to dip further into the specious 100m 'cycling' kitty to >build an off-site parking lot for University users with a nice >footpath to get from the parking lot to the Uni and forces cyclists >heading to the Uni or Bridge from Indooroopilly to use this footpath >too. What's wrong with just widening the road to include all the >available shoulders, preventing parking and extending the Uni's >30kph zone to include this? Surely there would then be plenty of >room for a BAZ both ways. Arguably there is a footpath, albeit a >narrow one, that could be improved and made more usable for locals >accessing the park from the adjacent homes. Right now the objective >seems to be for providing a footpath for the car parkers to get back >to the Uni in style. > >k > >Peter Whittle wrote: >> >> >> From www.bq.org.au >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>St Lucia bikeway consultation >> >> >> >>6 October 2009 >> >>Brisbane City Council is asking for cyclists' feedback on the next >>stage of a bikeway through St Lucia (along The Esplanade, part of >>the 'river loop'). A public consultation will be held on Saturday, >>10 October 2009, 2-4pm at St Lucia Uniting Church hall, 7 Hawken >>Drive (opposite Ironside State School), or you can email your >>opinion to >>communityfeedback@bigpond.com. >> Of the options presented, BQ slightly favours the one-way option. >>See the PDFs (about 1mb each) linked below for details. >> * >> Two-way option >> * One-way option >> (shee >> t 1, sheet 2) >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: >10/05/09 18:23:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091007/52854d2b/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Tue Oct 6 18:13:33 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Tue Oct 6 18:13:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation In-Reply-To: <20091006223600.SAVL10433.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: Has anyone seen a bicycle on the already completed section? I?ve seen a couple of walkers over the time it?s been open. Presumably this pathway is all about student and staff commuters to and from UQ. But the great volume of cyclists are the bunch riders early each morning and at other times on weekends. The one way option means that counter-clockwise River Riders will have a faster run along the Esplanade, and then run into traffic calming on Hillside Tce. Clockwise bunches will choose alternatives, probably using Hawken Drive and the shopping strip. That should be fun, shouldn?t it? I guess Council regards bunch riders as merely a nuisance and not genuine cyclists who ride for a ?serious? purpose. But even these commuters don?t seem to be using the Hillside Tce path... I wonder if there is a traffic counter on it. J. On 7/10/09 8:35 AM, "Michael Yeates" wrote: > Then add in that Council is again "promising" to install the BAZ on The > Esplanade while despite similar previous "promises" when Carawa Street was > widened some 2 years ago and as part of Stage 1 of this "bikeway" along > Hillside Terrace (the 20 year "bike route") which Council says is completed in > 2008 ... where NEITHER have the BAZ despite regular requests and reminders. > > It is also worth noting that this work is in the Ward of Councillor Prentice > who is well aware of the issues involved (the more so now she is the BCC Chair > of cycling) yet still Council refuses to "complete" work that was "promised" > ...! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091007/240ae4c5/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 6 21:37:09 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Oct 6 21:37:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <211024.32627.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi John, When I rode my MTB and when I was living in Corinda I did it a couple of times. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: John Nightingale To: Michael Yeates ; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wed, 7 October, 2009 9:13:33 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation Re: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation Has anyone seen a bicycle on the already completed section? I?ve seen a couple of walkers over the time it?s been open. Presumably this pathway is all about student and staff commuters to and from UQ. But the great volume of cyclists are the bunch riders early each morning and at other times on weekends. The one way option means that counter-clockwise River Riders will have a faster run along the Esplanade, and then run into traffic calming on Hillside Tce. Clockwise bunches will choose alternatives, probably using Hawken Drive and the shopping strip. That should be fun, shouldn?t it? I guess Council regards bunch riders as merely a nuisance and not genuine cyclists who ride for a ?serious? purpose. But even these commuters don?t seem to be using the Hillside Tce path... I wonder if there is a traffic counter on it. J. On 7/10/09 8:35 AM, "Michael Yeates" wrote: Then add in that Council is again "promising" to install the BAZ on The Esplanade while despite similar previous "promises" when Carawa Street was widened some 2 years ago and as part of Stage 1 of this "bikeway" along Hillside Terrace (the 20 year "bike route") which Council says is completed in 2008 ... where NEITHER have the BAZ despite regular requests and reminders. > >>It is also worth noting that this work is in the Ward of Councillor Prentice who is well aware of the issues involved (the more so now she is the BCC Chair of cycling) yet still Council refuses to "complete" work that was "promised" ...! > __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091006/a9bbbe85/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Oct 6 22:52:50 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Oct 6 22:53:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation In-Reply-To: <211024.32627.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <211024.32627.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091007035246.ZNAJ28976.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Anthony and John ... Anthony, where did you enter/leave at the Indooroopilly end? Did you stay on, or get onto the path to/at its end in Lambert Road up past the State High School? Or did you get on/off at Indooroopilly Road and not use the path(s) through Robertson Park? Or did you use Carawa Street via the roundabout on Indooroopilly Road? John, locals suggest about 20-50 people per day (ie up to 4 per daylight hour) walk with peaks early morning and early evening. Less than that cycle on the path although for both peds and cyclists, numbers obviously vary a lot. And yes, the big groups certainly dominate the local (mis)perceptions and complaints esp about shouting to each other. But up to 1 or more cyclists a minute in the morning cycling peak use Carawa Street as individuals (ie as commuters) in the morning ... then split routes ... a majority use Hillside but a surprising number use Highland then presumably Hawken Drive to UQ ... and the extent to which UQ is no less a destination is important given the layout at UQ required by the BCC bridge designers Whether this choice between Hillside or Highland and/or the number of cyclists has changed since the Schonell Bridge is an interesting question given it is increasingly difficult to cycle into and therefore through UQ (so it is a barrier) from Hawken Drive. Individuals often can advise whether they have changed eg from Coro Drive shared path to Schonell Bridge and this forms reliable "case study" results especially if they also know of others who have done the same. All feedback welcomed ... MY........................ At 12:37 PM 7/10/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Hi John, > >When I rode my MTB and when I was living in >Corinda I did it a couple of times. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: John Nightingale >To: Michael Yeates ; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Wed, 7 October, 2009 9:13:33 AM >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] St Lucia bikeway consultation > >Has anyone seen a bicycle on the already >completed section? I???ve seen a couple of >walkers over the time it???s been open. > >Presumably this pathway is all about student and >staff commuters to and from UQ. But the great >volume of cyclists are the bunch riders early >each morning and at other times on weekends. The >one way option means that counter-clockwise >River Riders will have a faster run along the >Esplanade, and then run into traffic calming on >Hillside Tce. Clockwise bunches will choose >alternatives, probably using Hawken Drive and >the shopping strip. That should be fun, shouldn???t it? > >I guess Council regards bunch riders as merely a >nuisance and not genuine cyclists who ride for a >???serious??? purpose. But even these commuters >don???t seem to be using the Hillside Tce >path... I wonder if there is a traffic counter on it. > >J. > > >On 7/10/09 8:35 AM, "Michael Yeates" wrote: > >Then add in that Council is again "promising" to >install the BAZ on The Esplanade while despite >similar previous "promises" when Carawa Street >was widened some 2 years ago and as part of >Stage 1 of this "bikeway" along Hillside Terrace >(the 20 year "bike route") which Council says is >completed in 2008 ... where NEITHER have the BAZ >despite regular requests and reminders. > >It is also worth noting that this work is in the >Ward of Councillor Prentice who is well aware of >the issues involved (the more so now she is the >BCC Chair of cycling) yet still Council refuses >to "complete" work that was "promised" ...! > > > > >Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2418 >- Release Date: 10/06/09 18:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091007/2ae8b0df/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 7 08:55:16 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Wed Oct 7 08:55:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October Message-ID: <334614.93866.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26163713-3102,00.html Well the Kurilpa Bridge is open and projected to reach 37,000 users a week (the 'week' is a strange metric commonly used for non-motorised transport usage for some reason; Michael Y. any explanation?). This will make those unfortunates in Sydney jealous http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/kurilpa-bridge-a-world-first-bligh-20091004-ghq3.html Great stuff. I didn't know that it is also solar powered. Has there been any comment (motorist backlash) against the George St bi-directional bikelanes? __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Oct 7 18:41:52 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Oct 7 18:42:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge opening Sunday 4 October In-Reply-To: <334614.93866.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <334614.93866.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091007234210.HLZM11607.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Mich ... The weekly metric hides all the different types of users and/or trip types as well as those who make multiple trips ie the degree some people use the facility more than others. It is a bit similar to the counts that indicate bicycle use is increasing based on a day or even part of a day "count" or survey. These don't differentiate between the various recreational, "group" and/or "utility" uses ... yet are used to imply success ... but are only a success in terms of what is actually measured. So what exactly are "users"? Does this term "user" equate with trips ie total use in both directions or is it a person who might use the bridge once ie in one direction as distinct from someone else who might use the bridge twice eg to visit GOMA during a lunch break? Are there people who will use it several times a day eg for exercise or as couriers? Does it mean anything anyway? One view (and one well supported) is that it is extremely important to ensure a facility is (always) seen to be in use ie so this not only encourages others (eg this is a crucial marketing and promotion reason why cycle facilities should ALWAYS be highly visible and NEVER "hidden" out of view) but also so the obvious constant use reduces the likelihood and credibility of complaints of "not being used" and "waste of money" etc. If it is seen being used, then it is highly likely it will be used more if it does what is needed well. This issue arises each time BCC (or anyone else) announces that cycling is increasing based on a survey of the number of cyclists passing survey points. While other info can be implied, it is not an indicator that people are changing modes eg from car to bike etc. Indeed it is only a measure of what is being measured ...! An example from the opening period of the SEBusway may be a useful illustration. During the first week of the SEBusway, a group of us from SmogBusters went out to the Garden City station to ask individuals about their previous and current transport choices. Some had changed from train to bus and were driving much further to do so (generating more parking and traffic congestion and more air pollution etc) and others were going to the CBD to go shopping or for lunch but they had NEVER done that previously (exporting the local economy). These trips were counted as trips that demonstrated the success of the SEBusway ie as gross numbers. However, at least from some perspectives, these trips were additional or longer trips generated by the SEBusway ... and while there was obviously a novelty factor as well as a benefit in seeing and using the novel facility, the "real" benefit in say reducing congestion and pollution could not be assessed from the gross counts. It really can only be assessed from individual case study research for much the same reasons the IndiMark travel information projects only work well at the individual or household level ... the information needed is individual. So I would expect not only an inflated prediction of use of the bridge from the government for political purposes (but would we also like to know how many people walk or cycle across the Sydney Harbour Bridge?) but also it will take time for the novelty trips to reduce and for those who don't find much utility to return to their preferred routes ... while for some, the bridge will no doubt be a benefit ... and for a lucky few, a huge benefit. Some may even leave the car and take up walking or cycling or public transport if the bridge makes the trip safer, quicker, more convenient ... but how many and how would we know? Will it have any benefit in reducing traffic or parking congestion or air pollution? Who knows? On my two recent trips to the CBD this week, I purposely travelled through these streets but have yet to see a cyclist on them ... but that was around 4pm - perhaps the least likely time for them to be used. Are they being used? Photos? Times? Comments? Critiques? Anybody? These are important questions too because the EXTRA facilities are extremely expensive and there can be NO DOUBT, they are NOT cost effective ... so IF the (implied) intention is to encourage more walking, cycling and/or public transport trips, then not only should the facilities for these be very obvious and obviously used (rather than hidden), they should also appear to be useful to those who are not already using them ... and further if the mode change is from cars, then LESS road space will be required for less cars ... therefore it is the road space that is the cost effective space ... and expensive additional facilities are indeed a waste of scarce resources. If anything, these types of questions have a vital role .. if only to encourage cyclists who currently head for and are hidden in the "hidden" bikeways eg from QUT to Hale Street Coro Drive underpass, may perhaps consider using the new green lanes instead ... if only to (i) be able to critically review their utility and (ii) perhaps more importantly, show others that cycling is more popular than it appears ... surveys and various PR releases can do neither of these. Back to Sydney comparisons ... the Sydney Harbour Bridge is said to carry more people not in cars than in cars ... so is the Kurilpa Bridge really little more than a 20th Century "symbolic gesture" for PR "spin" purposes to help hide the reality as Brisbane continues to build massive capacity for more cars and the Premier and Deputy Premier shake hands to celebrate another bridge with very poor walking and cycling facilities and NO public transport priority facilities at all? As Brisbane City Council is (hopefully) learning (?), constrained demand is very hard to reduce ... provide a few more buses, and the constrained demand emerges as the better the facility, the more demand ...! It seems obvious that this principle is still being used AGAINST walking and cycling ... as the "symbolic gestures" are being rolled out and in particular, the $100m shared path projects ... but what is the extent of the constrained demand for walking and cycling? Is the Kurilpa Bridge a useful place to look for answers to all these questions? Almost certainly yes ... but (only?) by individual interview or survey. MY...................... At 11:55 PM 7/10/2009, mich rolling wrote: >http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26163713-3102,00.html > >Well the Kurilpa Bridge is open and projected to reach 37,000 users a week > (the 'week' is a strange metric commonly used for non-motorised transport > usage for some reason; Michael Y. any explanation?). This will make those > unfortunates in Sydney jealous > http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/kurilpa-bridge-a-world-first-bligh-20091004-ghq3.html > > >Great stuff. > >I didn't know that it is also solar powered. > >Has there been any comment (motorist backlash) against the George St >bi-directional bikelanes? > > > >__________________________________________________________________________________ >Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: >10/07/09 05:18:00 From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 7 22:23:27 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 7 22:23:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? Message-ID: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Does anyone know what the route for the HTM ride is this year. There is one on Bike Radar for 2006. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091007/7ecc9da0/attachment.htm From Scott.Gordon at qimr.edu.au Thu Oct 8 01:40:43 2009 From: Scott.Gordon at qimr.edu.au (Scott Gordon) Date: Thu Oct 8 01:46:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? In-Reply-To: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4804@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> Hi Anthony, I?d have to assume (in lieu of specific information) that it?s the same as last year?s route or pretty close, as it takes a lot of work to create a new route. I?m one of the people setting up direction signs the night before, but I haven?t seen the route yet myself. Cheers Scott From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 1:23 PM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? Hi all, Does anyone know what the route for the HTM ride is this year. There is one on Bike Radar for 2006. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091008/5a46aa54/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 8 05:58:43 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Oct 8 05:58:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? In-Reply-To: <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4804@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> References: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4804@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> Message-ID: <894278.88901.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Scott. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Scott Gordon To: Anthony Lee ; BIQ Cc: Scott Gordon Sent: Thu, 8 October, 2009 4:40:43 PM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? Hi Anthony, I?d have to assume (in lieu of specific information) that it?s the same as last year?s route or pretty close, as it takes a lot of work to create a new route. I?m one of the people setting up direction signs the night before, but I haven?t seen the route yet myself. Cheers Scott From:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 1:23 PM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] HTM ride this Sunday? Route? Hi all, Does anyone know what the route for the HTM ride is this year. There is one on Bike Radar for 2006. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091008/b7061b49/attachment-0001.htm From ben at ultramotive.com.au Fri Oct 9 00:57:46 2009 From: ben at ultramotive.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Fri Oct 9 00:58:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] new regs In-Reply-To: <894278.88901.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4804@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> <894278.88901.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ACED0DA.2080009@ultramotive.com.au> Hi All, Just saw this - There's a few things in there about fines for cyclists and 200W limits for recreational toys etc., I haven't had time to look, maybe you've all seen it before...? http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb74670b62f0269/Pdf_qld_road_rules_11_sept_09.pdf Ben From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Fri Oct 9 02:07:15 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Fri Oct 9 02:07:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] new regs In-Reply-To: <4ACED0DA.2080009@ultramotive.com.au> References: <713527.33940.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4804@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan><894278.88901.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4ACED0DA.2080009@ultramotive.com.au> Message-ID: <06051BAD300742F4B2DFFCA98B3D38FB@golder.gds> Thanks Ben, hadn't looked. The 200W limit doesn't appear to apply to motorised bicycles(??) Guess we can thank our learned magistratery for many of these. Brain-dead responses to case law precedents. Seems the basic idea is to complicate the whole thing to the point where no one other than a lawyer ever bothers to look. (Assuming any other than L-platers with a test to pass ever did.) I liked 225. After some smarty found the loophole (and some dopey beak allowed it) truckies can no longer get away with mounting their stupid radar detector on their *trailer*. The law is a complete ass. G. > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ben Guymer > Sent: Friday, 9 October 2009 3:58 PM > To: BIQ > Subject: [bikeqld] new regs > > Hi All, > Just saw this - > There's a few things in there about fines for cyclists and > 200W limits > for recreational toys etc., I haven't had time to look, maybe you've > all seen it before...? > > http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb74670b62f0269 > /Pdf_qld_road_rules_11_sept_09.pdf > > Ben > > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Oct 9 18:51:15 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Oct 9 18:51:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? Message-ID: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale station via Stevens Rd and Napper See below http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on Smith Street :-)? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091009/17adebde/attachment.htm From bulk at ingramtech.com Sat Oct 10 01:56:50 2009 From: bulk at ingramtech.com (Dave Ingram) Date: Sat Oct 10 01:57:12 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? In-Reply-To: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AD03032.7040702@ingramtech.com> Anthony, If you look at the aerial photography of that intersection (just zoom way in from Bikely) you'll see there is a foot path on the north side. I'm intending to ride back to Helensvale too, so thanks for the Bikely link. I'll probable ride to the Napper Rd/Smith St intersection, walk across Napper Rd, ride along the footpath on Smith St, cross Kingston Dr on foot and then head off on the bike again. If you see a bike with a ham radio antenna on the back, it's probably me :-) I'll be using my satellite tracking/reporting system on the ride so friends can see where I am, using http://aprs.fi/vk4tdi-8 David. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more > <%20http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lhaG9vIQ--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A//au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/%20>. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -- David Ingram (VK4TDI) To avoid spam trap, send email to dave at ingramtech dot com Brisbane, Queensland, Australia W: http://www.ingramtech.com/ MH: QG62lm From bulk at ingramtech.com Sat Oct 10 02:10:30 2009 From: bulk at ingramtech.com (Dave Ingram) Date: Sat Oct 10 02:10:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? In-Reply-To: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> Anthony, There are two other options on Bikely to consider: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/B2GC100-finish-site-to-Helensvale-Station http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-Helensvale-Train-Station The traffic might be busier, but the biggest climb is 17m, whereas the one you've found has a 60m sharp climb in the middle. I think I'll chose on the day based on the amount of traffic. Dave. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Oct 11 16:07:01 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Oct 11 16:07:17 2009 Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) In-Reply-To: <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> Message-ID: <512155.23663.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Dave, How did you go? Sadly I had to bail out at Beenleigh yesterday. After Springwood, it started showering and I was finding it difficult to corner in the wet. Also my brake wasn't working that well. In the end I left the official route and rode to Beenleigh station and caught a train home. I was also feeling the cold too. There were 3 other cyclists waiting to get back to Brisbane. One guy fell when someone else in front fell. Luckily he was only slightly hurt. His front tyre was busted and then he had problem with his steering as well. I sometime wonder if the organiser should have called it off. At least, I felt that there should be some information for people if they have to bail out e.g. route to the nearest train station. Even before it rain, I saw two ambulances on the bus way before 8 Miles Plain. Just wonder if there should some sort of competency courses that people should take before going such rides. Well, at least I am in one piece! One thing, I wish I had a GPS :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Dave Ingram To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 5:10:30 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? Anthony, There are two other options on Bikely to consider: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/B2GC100-finish-site-to-Helensvale-Station http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-Helensvale-Train-Station The traffic might be busier, but the biggest climb is 17m, whereas the one you've found has a 60m sharp climb in the middle. I think I'll chose on the day based on the amount of traffic. Dave. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091011/e8f1cecd/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun Oct 11 17:14:44 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Oct 11 17:15:57 2009 Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) In-Reply-To: <512155.23663.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> <512155.23663.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca4ac0$56069a50$0213cef0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Sorry you had a hard time, Anthony. On your suggestion the organiser should have called it off because of the weather, there was an awful lot of people at the Gold Coast looking very satisfied who would not understand your suggestion at all. My own thought is we were exceptionally lucky to have cool weather ? it has been far hotter on that ride and that can be far more unpleasant than a bit of rain (truly, it was a light drizzle for a short while, no more) with the temperature in the mid- or high teens. The Melbourne crowd for the far longer Around the Bay in a Day, next weekend, would consider themselves blessed to get such benign weather as yesterday! Rain is a phenomenon that a cyclist must know and accept, and in many places people ride with it daily, with temperatures scraping to get into double figures. As to mechanicals, injuries etc., I think we should be thankful that events like this can still be run, with insurance and liability creating such concern. Any activity with a whiff of hazard can make potential organisers and investors run a mile. Yes, there are hazards in cycling and there will always be a few falls and a few incidental medical events, but they are outweighed immensely by the benefits. Yes, you can mitigate your risk by being fit, competent and having appropriate equipment ? but there is only so much responsibility that the organisers can take (a well-chosen route, signs, police, support patrols, food and drink, toilets, medical assistance, etc.) ? and a lot that rests on the individual. Maybe the only competency test the organisers should need to apply is to say: By entering this event, you are implicitly stating that you are medically fit and have made yourself competent and you are using suitable equipment. In other words, ?All care, no responsibility?. Fair enough too. >From experience volunteering, if people were bailing out, they only had to ask one of the volunteer marshals what to do. The marshal would either know, or phone someone who could help. The answer might be: A Sag Wagon will be along shortly. Anthony, I hope you will have another crack at it next year and join the many satisfied people at the finish. Good luck. I thought it was a fantastic event that made people very happy and satisfied. I particularly was thrilled to see such a high proportion of women taking it on, but generally that there were so many who had worked so hard to work themselves up to the point they could complete the event. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 12 October 2009 7:07 AM To: Dave Ingram Cc: BIQ Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) Hi Dave, How did you go? Sadly I had to bail out at Beenleigh yesterday. After Springwood, it started showering and I was finding it difficult to corner in the wet. Also my brake wasn't working that well. In the end I left the official route and rode to Beenleigh station and caught a train home. I was also feeling the cold too. There were 3 other cyclists waiting to get back to Brisbane. One guy fell when someone else in front fell. Luckily he was only slightly hurt. His front tyre was busted and then he had problem with his steering as well. I sometime wonder if the organiser should have called it off. At least, I felt that there should be some information for people if they have to bail out e.g. route to the nearest train station. Even before it rain, I saw two ambulances on the bus way before 8 Miles Plain. Just wonder if there should some sort of competency courses that people should take before going such rides. Well, at least I am in one piece! One thing, I wish I had a GPS :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Dave Ingram To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 5:10:30 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? Anthony, There are two other options on Bikely to consider: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/B2GC100-finish-site-to-Helensvale-Station http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-Helensvale-Train-Station The traffic might be busier, but the biggest climb is 17m, whereas the one you've found has a 60m sharp climb in the middle. I think I'll chose on the day based on the amount of traffic. Dave. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > _____ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091012/609fddf5/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Oct 11 17:30:19 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Oct 11 17:30:33 2009 Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) In-Reply-To: <000001ca4ac0$56069a50$0213cef0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> <512155.23663.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000001ca4ac0$56069a50$0213cef0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <415897.88658.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Peter, Actually I agree the cooler weather was very nice at the start and I did consider continuing at the Eagleby state school. However, there was at least one couple that felt same way as me and they waited outside the school for private transport to get home. I didn't have that luxury. I was shivering at times and I was lucky not to crash. I asked several volunteers how to get to the Beenleigh stations but several didn't know. Oh well. BTW, I had done the ride several years before. In fact, I had a private joke with one of the BQ volunteer and I am sure she still remember. That was the year before Cyclone Larry. I said to her (Novak) that BQ ought to plant bananas on Loganholme park so that they didn't need to truck it in then Cyclone Larry hit. Just think BQ could have made a killing the following year, if only they would have listened to me. See, some of my opinion is worth following up ;-). Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Whittle To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Mon, 12 October, 2009 8:14:44 AM Subject: RE: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) Sorry you had a hard time, Anthony. On your suggestion the organiser should have called it off because of the weather, there was an awful lot of people at the Gold Coast looking very satisfied who would not understand your suggestion at all. My own thought is we were exceptionally lucky to have cool weather ? it has been far hotter on that ride and that can be far more unpleasant than a bit of rain (truly, it was a light drizzle for a short while, no more) with the temperature in the mid- or high teens. The Melbourne crowd for the far longer Around the Bay in a Day, next weekend, would consider themselves blessed to get such benign weather as yesterday! Rain is a phenomenon that a cyclist must know and accept, and in many places people ride with it daily, with temperatures scraping to get into double figures. As to mechanicals, injuries etc., I think we should be thankful that events like this can still be run, with insurance and liability creating such concern. Any activity with a whiff of hazard can make potential organisers and investors run a mile. Yes, there are hazards in cycling and there will always be a few falls and a few incidental medical events, but they are outweighed immensely by the benefits. Yes, you can mitigate your risk by being fit, competent and having appropriate equipment ? but there is only so much responsibility that the organisers can take (a well-chosen route, signs, police, support patrols, food and drink, toilets, medical assistance, etc.) ? and a lot that rests on the individual. Maybe the only competency test the organisers should need to apply is to say: By entering this event, you are implicitly stating that you are medically fit and have made yourself competent and you are using suitable equipment. In other words, ?All care, no responsibility?. Fair enough too. From experience volunteering, if people were bailing out, they only had to ask one of the volunteer marshals what to do. The marshal would either know, or phone someone who could help. The answer might be: A Sag Wagon will be along shortly. Anthony, I hope you will have another crack at it next year and join the many satisfied people at the finish. Good luck. I thought it was a fantastic event that made people very happy and satisfied. I particularly was thrilled to see such a high proportion of women taking it on, but generally that there were so many who had worked so hard to work themselves up to the point they could complete the event. Pete From:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 12 October 2009 7:07 AM To: Dave Ingram Cc: BIQ Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) Hi Dave, How did you go? Sadly I had to bail out at Beenleigh yesterday. After Springwood, it started showering and I was finding it difficult to corner in the wet. Also my brake wasn't working that well. In the end I left the official route and rode to Beenleigh station and caught a train home. I was also feeling the cold too. There were 3 other cyclists waiting to get back to Brisbane. One guy fell when someone else in front fell. Luckily he was only slightly hurt. His front tyre was busted and then he had problem with his steering as well. I sometime wonder if the organiser should have called it off. At least, I felt that there should be some information for people if they have to bail out e.g. route to the nearest train station. Even before it rain, I saw two ambulances on the bus way before 8 Miles Plain. Just wonder if there should some sort of competency courses that people should take before going such rides. Well, at least I am in one piece! One thing, I wish I had a GPS :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From:Dave Ingram To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 5:10:30 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? Anthony, There are two other options on Bikely to consider: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/B2GC100-finish-site-to-Helensvale-Station http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-Helensvale-Train-Station The traffic might be busier, but the biggest climb is 17m, whereas the one you've found has a 60m sharp climb in the middle. I think I'll chose on the day based on the amount of traffic. Dave. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091011/37b33de5/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Oct 11 18:37:00 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Oct 11 18:37:14 2009 Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) In-Reply-To: <000001ca4ac0$56069a50$0213cef0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <822200.54674.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4AD03366.4080002@ingramtech.com> <512155.23663.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000001ca4ac0$56069a50$0213cef0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <93019.87104.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Peter, I have to admit, my experience of the overall event was a limited one. It doesn't mean that I am not appreciative of the work of the volunteers and the organisers. However, I think it is important to say that I and may be a small percentage did not have good experience of the event. Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Whittle To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Mon, 12 October, 2009 8:14:44 AM Subject: RE: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) Sorry you had a hard time, Anthony. On your suggestion the organiser should have called it off because of the weather, there was an awful lot of people at the Gold Coast looking very satisfied who would not understand your suggestion at all. My own thought is we were exceptionally lucky to have cool weather ? it has been far hotter on that ride and that can be far more unpleasant than a bit of rain (truly, it was a light drizzle for a short while, no more) with the temperature in the mid- or high teens. The Melbourne crowd for the far longer Around the Bay in a Day, next weekend, would consider themselves blessed to get such benign weather as yesterday! Rain is a phenomenon that a cyclist must know and accept, and in many places people ride with it daily, with temperatures scraping to get into double figures. As to mechanicals, injuries etc., I think we should be thankful that events like this can still be run, with insurance and liability creating such concern. Any activity with a whiff of hazard can make potential organisers and investors run a mile. Yes, there are hazards in cycling and there will always be a few falls and a few incidental medical events, but they are outweighed immensely by the benefits. Yes, you can mitigate your risk by being fit, competent and having appropriate equipment ? but there is only so much responsibility that the organisers can take (a well-chosen route, signs, police, support patrols, food and drink, toilets, medical assistance, etc.) ? and a lot that rests on the individual. Maybe the only competency test the organisers should need to apply is to say: By entering this event, you are implicitly stating that you are medically fit and have made yourself competent and you are using suitable equipment. In other words, ?All care, no responsibility?. Fair enough too. From experience volunteering, if people were bailing out, they only had to ask one of the volunteer marshals what to do. The marshal would either know, or phone someone who could help. The answer might be: A Sag Wagon will be along shortly. Anthony, I hope you will have another crack at it next year and join the many satisfied people at the finish. Good luck. I thought it was a fantastic event that made people very happy and satisfied. I particularly was thrilled to see such a high proportion of women taking it on, but generally that there were so many who had worked so hard to work themselves up to the point they could complete the event. Pete From:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 12 October 2009 7:07 AM To: Dave Ingram Cc: BIQ Subject: Bailed out (was Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive?) Hi Dave, How did you go? Sadly I had to bail out at Beenleigh yesterday. After Springwood, it started showering and I was finding it difficult to corner in the wet. Also my brake wasn't working that well. In the end I left the official route and rode to Beenleigh station and caught a train home. I was also feeling the cold too. There were 3 other cyclists waiting to get back to Brisbane. One guy fell when someone else in front fell. Luckily he was only slightly hurt. His front tyre was busted and then he had problem with his steering as well. I sometime wonder if the organiser should have called it off. At least, I felt that there should be some information for people if they have to bail out e.g. route to the nearest train station. Even before it rain, I saw two ambulances on the bus way before 8 Miles Plain. Just wonder if there should some sort of competency courses that people should take before going such rides. Well, at least I am in one piece! One thing, I wish I had a GPS :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From:Dave Ingram To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 5:10:30 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Southport to Helensvale station - Nipper Road West to Kingston Drive? Anthony, There are two other options on Bikely to consider: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/B2GC100-finish-site-to-Helensvale-Station http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-Helensvale-Train-Station The traffic might be busier, but the biggest climb is 17m, whereas the one you've found has a 60m sharp climb in the middle. I think I'll chose on the day based on the amount of traffic. Dave. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > After getting to Southport tomorrow, I am going to ride to Helensvale > station via Stevens Rd and Napper > > See below > > http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southport-to-Helensvale-Rail-Stn > > How do you get on to Kingston Dr from Napper St without getting on > Smith Street :-)? > ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091011/ff209ae3/attachment.htm From johnnigh at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 17:11:14 2009 From: johnnigh at gmail.com (John Nightingale) Date: Wed Oct 14 18:51:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] FW: RAIL Back On Track - Latest Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion In-Reply-To: <200910121755.n9CHtLht015682@apps2.servage.net> Message-ID: ------ Forwarded Message From: RAIL Back On Track Members Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:55:21 GMT To: Subject: RAIL Back On Track - Latest Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion Media Release 13th October 2009 Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has applauded the findings of the Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport into the investment of Commonwealth and State funds in public passenger transport infrastructure and services (1). Robert Dow, spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said: "The standing committee reported that it is by now generally accepted, including by road authorities, that urban traffic congestion cannot be solved by building roads and that building roads encourages the growth of traffic and entrenches patterns of urban development that create high car use. They also noted that past transport studies and experience have shown that building freeways does not solve congestion, and they will in fact increase congestion in the long term.??? ???The inquiry also makes a number of key recommendations to increase the role of public and active transport in our cities as they, and only they, can decrease congestion.??? ???We have spent 40 years trying to out-build congestion when we were really causing congestion to get worse. In that same time Vancouver Canada for example has reduced the average time taken for the journey to work as a result of improvement to public transport and building no new major roads.??? ???RAIL Back On Track calls for an urgent review of all freeway and major road projects throughout South East Queensland including the Kenmore Bypass, Pacific Motorway Upgrades and Ipswich Motorway Upgrade to name just a few. Building these roads will only increase traffic congestion in SEQ. The funding for these projects should be immediately redirected towards public and active transport major improvements." "Urgent projects for rail that should be moved forward now include the triplication of the railway line from Darra to Redbank, triplication of the railway line from Kuraby to Beenleigh, duplication of the line from Beerburrum to Nambour. Construction of the Petri to Kippa-Ring, and Richlands to Springfield railways. Improved signalling and stabling facilities on the rail network and acceleration of the Cross River Rail project.??? ???Further, the Department of Transport and Main Roads must review all its transport plans to address the incorrect modeling assumption that more road capacity reduces congestion. Only this will correct the transport errors of the past that we are living with today???. Reference: 1. http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/rrat_ctte/public_transport/report/rep ort.pdf Contact: Robert Dow Administration 0412255927 admin@backontrack.org RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org 54 Aberdare St Darra Qld 4076 ------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe Link: http://apps.corecluster.net/apps/ml/r.php?l=18033&e=johnnigh%40gmail.com&id= 45579077 ------------------------------------------------------- ------ End of Forwarded Message From djc at djc.id.au Thu Oct 15 03:49:07 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan Callaghan) Date: Thu Oct 15 03:49:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Handheld radars along Bicentennial Bikeway Message-ID: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> Dear list, On my ride home along the Bicentennial Bikeway late this afternoon I saw a pair of police officers with a handheld radar gun pointed at cyclists who were coming outbound along the newly finished "separated" section at Milton. I assume I got clocked, I was doing about 28-30km/h at that point as it was not congested at all so I felt it was safe to keep a nice pace going. In the event they didn't attempt to wave me down or anything, so I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve with their radar. Is there even any legally enforceable speed limit on bike paths? (I vaguely remember seeing some absurd 10km/h speed limit signs, but that might have been only during the construction phase.) Or is there maybe some kind of "reckless cycling" offence which they can apply at their discretion, if they clocked someone doing 40km/h and thought it was too much? Has anybody else been stopped by police with radars along there? or seen anybody else being stopped? -- Dan Callaghan From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Oct 15 06:29:26 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Oct 15 06:29:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] King George Square In-Reply-To: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> References: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <9CB15032185B4F499D002B425DEBC0EF@maud> Hi, I saw on the news the new 'King George Square' is open. Just curious what the story was on the mega cycling facility that we were promised as it wasn't mentioned in the news report? Yani From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 15 14:06:53 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Oct 15 14:07:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Handheld radars along Bicentennial Bikeway In-Reply-To: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> References: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <626546.79726.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Dan, I saw the radar too. A friend from work who rides said that he seen them also. Perhaps they would like us push our bikes too :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Dan Callaghan To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thu, 15 October, 2009 6:49:07 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Handheld radars along Bicentennial Bikeway Dear list, On my ride home along the Bicentennial Bikeway late this afternoon I saw a pair of police officers with a handheld radar gun pointed at cyclists who were coming outbound along the newly finished "separated" section at Milton. I assume I got clocked, I was doing about 28-30km/h at that point as it was not congested at all so I felt it was safe to keep a nice pace going. In the event they didn't attempt to wave me down or anything, so I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve with their radar. Is there even any legally enforceable speed limit on bike paths? (I vaguely remember seeing some absurd 10km/h speed limit signs, but that might have been only during the construction phase.) Or is there maybe some kind of "reckless cycling" offence which they can apply at their discretion, if they clocked someone doing 40km/h and thought it was too much? Has anybody else been stopped by police with radars along there? or seen anybody else being stopped? -- Dan Callaghan _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091015/782fbc19/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 15 17:17:23 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 15 17:17:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Handheld radars along Bicentennial Bikeway In-Reply-To: <626546.79726.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> <626546.79726.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091015221740.MDBY28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Anthony and others ... Apparently this police presence has been happening on and off for a week or more so why doesn't somebody stop and ask the police? Alternatively, if you do have a "speedo", go through the radar, note your speed then go back and ask if they will provide you with a reading to check your speed. Strike up a conversation ... they may even be cyclists. It is possible they are taking some measurements eg for BCC but also could be testing the equipment ... lots of possible could be's. Its worth noting that while there isn't a speed limit and it is understood that if there was, it would not be enforceable (ie it would be advisory ... like the advisory speed signs along roads), the fact an advisory speed sign is in place eg in Southbank or on the Goodwill Bridge, means that in the event of a crash, there would be considerable onus on the cyclist/s to show if not prove they were not exceeding that speed or "driving" dangerously and a host of other subjective opinion-based offences where almost certainly the "judge and jury" and police would be likely to be ill-informed, if not biased, by taking the all-too-common view that (all) cyclists travel too fast, a view which continues to be promulgated implicitly if not explicitly. This is one reason why the "new" Coro Drive facility seems to be substandard. If it is adequate ie fit for purpose, then it would be cyclists crashing ... including into each other. Surely then it can't be true that pedestrians have to cross the "bike only path" to get to and from the "pedestrians only path" ? Who has right of way at these crossing points? Surely not the pedestrians? Pity about that $100m if it continues to be spent or is that misspent, on facilities like this? BCC could erect advisory speed signs along Coro Drive or anywhere else ... as it does on the roads, eg the roads that have 60km/h but then have a host of advisory 50 or 40 advisory signs ... where the speed limit should be lowered ...! MY.................................. At 05:06 AM 16/10/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Hi Dan, > >I saw the radar too. A friend from work who rides said that he seen >them also. >Perhaps they would like us push our bikes too :-(. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Dan Callaghan >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Thu, 15 October, 2009 6:49:07 PM >Subject: [bikeqld] Handheld radars along Bicentennial Bikeway > >Dear list, > >On my ride home along the Bicentennial Bikeway late this afternoon I saw a >pair of police officers with a handheld radar gun pointed at cyclists who >were coming outbound along the newly finished "separated" section at >Milton. I assume I got clocked, I was doing about 28-30km/h at that point >as it was not congested at all so I felt it was safe to keep a nice pace >going. > >In the event they didn't attempt to wave me down or anything, so I'm not >sure what they were trying to achieve with their radar. Is there even any >legally enforceable speed limit on bike paths? (I vaguely remember seeing >some absurd 10km/h speed limit signs, but that might have been only during >the construction phase.) Or is there maybe some kind of "reckless cycling" >offence which they can apply at their discretion, if they clocked someone >doing 40km/h and thought it was too much? > >Has anybody else been stopped by police with radars along there? or seen >anybody else being stopped? > >-- >Dan Callaghan <djc@djc.id.au> > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: >10/15/09 12:02:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091016/c07aa667/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 15 22:50:20 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Oct 15 22:50:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] FW: RAIL Back On Track - Latest Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <896969.48754.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for that John. I am thinking to myself, what does Back on Track thinks of the latest round of fare rises? I know my state member who do not like the idea of congestion charging because it will upset her voters. I wonder why they don't use the carrot idea, e.g. lower registration cost if people drives outside of congestion period. We do that now with off peak tickets. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: John Nightingale To: BikeQld Sent: Tue, 13 October, 2009 8:11:14 AM Subject: [bikeqld] FW: RAIL Back On Track - Latest Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion ------ Forwarded Message From: RAIL Back On Track Members Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:55:21 GMT To: Subject: RAIL Back On Track - Latest Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion Media Release 13th October 2009 Senate Committee Notes Freeways Increase Congestion RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has applauded the findings of the Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport into the investment of Commonwealth and State funds in public passenger transport infrastructure and services (1). Robert Dow, spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said: "The standing committee reported that it is by now generally accepted, including by road authorities, that urban traffic congestion cannot be solved by building roads and that building roads encourages the growth of traffic and entrenches patterns of urban development that create high car use. They also noted that past transport studies and experience have shown that building freeways does not solve congestion, and they will in fact increase congestion in the long term.? ?The inquiry also makes a number of key recommendations to increase the role of public and active transport in our cities as they, and only they, can decrease congestion.? ?We have spent 40 years trying to out-build congestion when we were really causing congestion to get worse. In that same time Vancouver Canada for example has reduced the average time taken for the journey to work as a result of improvement to public transport and building no new major roads.? ?RAIL Back On Track calls for an urgent review of all freeway and major road projects throughout South East Queensland including the Kenmore Bypass, Pacific Motorway Upgrades and Ipswich Motorway Upgrade to name just a few. Building these roads will only increase traffic congestion in SEQ. The funding for these projects should be immediately redirected towards public and active transport major improvements." "Urgent projects for rail that should be moved forward now include the triplication of the railway line from Darra to Redbank, triplication of the railway line from Kuraby to Beenleigh, duplication of the line from Beerburrum to Nambour. Construction of the Petri to Kippa-Ring, and Richlands to Springfield railways. Improved signalling and stabling facilities on the rail network and acceleration of the Cross River Rail project.? ?Further, the Department of Transport and Main Roads must review all its transport plans to address the incorrect modeling assumption that more road capacity reduces congestion. Only this will correct the transport errors of the past that we are living with today?. Reference: 1. http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/rrat_ctte/public_transport/report/rep ort.pdf Contact: Robert Dow Administration 0412255927 admin@backontrack.org RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org 54 Aberdare St Darra Qld 4076 ------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe Link: http://apps.corecluster.net/apps/ml/r.php?l=18033&e=johnnigh%40gmail.com&id= 45579077 ------------------------------------------------------- ------ End of Forwarded Message _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091015/357ccd4c/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Sun Oct 18 17:42:16 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Sun Oct 18 17:42:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] King George Square In-Reply-To: <9CB15032185B4F499D002B425DEBC0EF@maud> References: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au> <9CB15032185B4F499D002B425DEBC0EF@maud> Message-ID: <20091019084024.P1647@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Yani, The King George Square cycle centre is underground and opened mid last year. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/King_George_Square_cycle_centre The part that's just reopened is solely on the surface, I believe. Cheers, Ian On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Yani wrote: > Hi, > > I saw on the news the new 'King George Square' is open. > > Just curious what the story was on the mega cycling facility that we were > promised as it wasn't mentioned in the news report? > > Yani From akayani at aapt.net.au Sun Oct 18 18:42:30 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Sun Oct 18 18:42:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] King George Square In-Reply-To: <20091019084024.P1647@singha.lister.id.au> References: <4AD6E203.8060406@djc.id.au><9CB15032185B4F499D002B425DEBC0EF@maud> <20091019084024.P1647@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <3D3A2EE5603A44338E181D16F337E7C2@maud> Shows how often I've been into town in the last year. I thought they were going to get a bit of a top side presence. Do you know what the usage has been like? Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Monday, 19 October 2009 8:42 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] King George Square Hi Yani, The King George Square cycle centre is underground and opened mid last year. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/King_George_Square_cycle_centre The part that's just reopened is solely on the surface, I believe. Cheers, Ian On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Yani wrote: > Hi, > > I saw on the news the new 'King George Square' is open. > > Just curious what the story was on the mega cycling facility that we were > promised as it wasn't mentioned in the news report? > > Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Oct 18 23:30:46 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Oct 18 23:31:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Re: re bikepath speed limits Message-ID: <20091019043055.ZBCZ9934.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi .. The following article is probably worth putting "somewhere" for future reference given this question of speed limits seems to entertain the media and politicians (and others) on a regular basis. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20091019/CM%20bike%20speed%20limits%20BCC%20undated.jpg The reference to Bob Mills as Opposition Leader would (from memory) probably place this discussion in the period following Jim Soorley first being elected Mayor ... also not sure if it was in the CM or SM ... Perhaps somebody else recalls ... or has a copy with the date etc? MY ........................... From admin at bikeqld.org.au Tue Oct 20 02:05:33 2009 From: admin at bikeqld.org.au (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 20 02:06:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive Major Changes (fwd) Message-ID: <20091020163343.Y1647@singha.lister.id.au> See below for information the HSL people just tried to send through to the list. The flyer was too big to go through, but can be accessed at: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20091020/Major%20Changes%20Coro%20Drive_final.pdf Cheers, Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Information@halestreetlink.com.au To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:20:49 +1000 Subject: Coro Drive Major Changes +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=* Place: Information +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=* Hi there, Please forward onto any friends, family or associates who may be affected by these upcoming major traffic changes. Major Changes Coronation Drive >From November 1 2009 major traffic changes will affect both inbound and outbound lanes on Coronation Drive between Cribb Street and the Merivale Rail Bridge - see attached map. These changes will take place over a maximum four month period and are required to complete construction of the Coronation Drive overpass. Motorists are advised to follow the signs, allow more time and consider alternatives. See www.halestreetlink.com.au for detailed maps and info. Please remember: Tip 1 - Starts Nov 1 Tip 2 - Follow the signs Tip 3 - Allow more time Tip 4 - Consider alternatives Map and notification attached below. 1800 HALEST (425 378) / information@halestreetlink.com.au. Regards, Hale Street Link Alliance Yours sincerely, Community Relations Team Hale Street Link Alliance Ph. 1800 HALEST (425 378) Information@halestreetlink.com.au From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 21 18:29:42 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 21 18:30:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge, Tank St end? Message-ID: <632026.16090.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I have noticed that a drive way on the Tank St end of the Kuripla Bridge is a bit of a danger spot. There is a drive way and you get work cars turning right in front of cyclists. I tried to call BCC but want the actual address. Anyone else having problem there? Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091021/bf50448f/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Oct 21 18:48:39 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Oct 21 18:51:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge, Tank St end? In-Reply-To: <632026.16090.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <632026.16090.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091022093517.H1647@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Anthony, On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > I have noticed that a drive way on the Tank St end of the Kuripla Bridge > is a bit of a danger spot. There is a drive way and you get work cars > turning right in front of cyclists. I tried to call BCC but want the > actual address. I expect the building you're talking about is Santos Place, 31 Tank St (aka 32 Turbot St). Interestingly, I just bumped into an article about the building saying it has more bike parking spaces than car parking spaces - see below. > Anyone else having problem there? I've been away and haven't had a chance to check out the bridge since before it opened, but I know a number of both building occupants and bridge users have been quite concerned about it. I haven't yet heard much about how it's been working in practice, but I expect it's only a matter of time before there are collisions, injuries, and an eruption of negative local media stories about cyclists being menaces. Ian >From http://www.northbridgecbd.com.au/downloads/cm-01-02-2008.pdf (seemingly from the Courier Mail on 1 Feb 2008): =====8<----- Tower leans towards those on two wheels [ Picture: Pedal power ... Jessica Knight and Peter Green at the bicycle-friendly NorthBridge tower in the city ] With more people buying bicycles than cars, Ross Nielson Properties has decided to ensure its latest development in the central business district caters to the growing number of workers on two wheels instead of four. The group's NorthBridge tower, which is under construction, will have more bike parking spaces than car parking spaces. As part of its five-star green credentials, the building will have parking for 280 bikes and a huge bicycle storage space. There will also be 50 visitor bike spaces in the ground floor laneway. And to accommodate all those sweaty masses arriving to work under peddle (sic) power there are showers and about 230 storage lockers throughout the building. There will be only 168 car parking spaces. Rsoss Nielson Properties general manager of development Peter Green said such facilities offered a point of difference to companies looking to relocate. He said if workers had the right facilities at their disposal they would consider riding to work. There will also be additional space in the building for storing scooters. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 21 19:08:08 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 21 19:08:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge, Tank St end? In-Reply-To: <20091022093517.H1647@singha.lister.id.au> References: <632026.16090.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20091022093517.H1647@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <900851.87226.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Ian. I will log a complain with BCC now. It is so close to where the bridge finishes, you just don't have the time to brake! Surely it would be turning vehicle that has to give way, right? I just submitted a request. Hopefully someone will do something Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thu, 22 October, 2009 9:48:39 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kurilpa Bridge, Tank St end? Hi Anthony, On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > I have noticed that a drive way on the Tank St end of the Kuripla Bridge is a bit of a danger spot. There is a drive way and you get work cars turning right in front of cyclists. I tried to call BCC but want the actual address. I expect the building you're talking about is Santos Place, 31 Tank St (aka 32 Turbot St). Interestingly, I just bumped into an article about the building saying it has more bike parking spaces than car parking spaces - see below. > Anyone else having problem there? I've been away and haven't had a chance to check out the bridge since before it opened, but I know a number of both building occupants and bridge users have been quite concerned about it. I haven't yet heard much about how it's been working in practice, but I expect it's only a matter of time before there are collisions, injuries, and an eruption of negative local media stories about cyclists being menaces. Ian > From http://www.northbridgecbd.com.au/downloads/cm-01-02-2008.pdf (seemingly from the Courier Mail on 1 Feb 2008): =====8<----- Tower leans towards those on two wheels [ Picture: Pedal power ... Jessica Knight and Peter Green at the bicycle-friendly NorthBridge tower in the city ] With more people buying bicycles than cars, Ross Nielson Properties has decided to ensure its latest development in the central business district caters to the growing number of workers on two wheels instead of four. The group's NorthBridge tower, which is under construction, will have more bike parking spaces than car parking spaces. As part of its five-star green credentials, the building will have parking for 280 bikes and a huge bicycle storage space. There will also be 50 visitor bike spaces in the ground floor laneway. And to accommodate all those sweaty masses arriving to work under peddle (sic) power there are showers and about 230 storage lockers throughout the building. There will be only 168 car parking spaces. Rsoss Nielson Properties general manager of development Peter Green said such facilities offered a point of difference to companies looking to relocate. He said if workers had the right facilities at their disposal they would consider riding to work. There will also be additional space in the building for storing scooters. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091021/fb962164/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 21 19:10:41 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 21 19:10:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Carrot approach to congestion? Message-ID: <127043.34404.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, There is a lot of negative comments regarding congestion charging. I was wondering what about a carrot approach. What if the government will lower the standard registration if people will avoid congested area? Can anyone see a hole in that? I mean, many people like me who ride to work don't drive during the week and I still have to pay exactly the same registration as someone who drives everyday. Surely, I should be entitle to a discount. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091021/b824b6c8/attachment.htm From john at fatcyclist.com Wed Oct 21 21:14:59 2009 From: john at fatcyclist.com (john@fatcyclist.com) Date: Wed Oct 21 21:15:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Carrot approach to congestion? Message-ID: Anthony said... There is a lot of negative comments regarding congestion charging. I was wondering what about a carrot approach. What if the government will lower the standard registration if people will avoid congested area? Can anyone see a hole in that? I mean, many people like me who ride to work don't drive during the week and I still have to pay exactly the same registration as someone who drives everyday. Surely, I should be entitle to a discount. I think it would be difficult to administer. Why not just bite the bullet and do it? Just link it to the e-tag system (or whatever they're calling it this week.) People seem quite happy to pay to use toll roads - what's the difference? It would certainly be easier and fairer than linking it to registration - I don't want to pay extra rego for my maybe once-a-year drive into the city. I think the only effective carrot would be to make other modes of transport, and multi-mode, more attractive. Like ditching the stupid "folding bikes only on peak-hour trains" rule! _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your iPhone Find out how here http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091022/5cb263bf/attachment-0001.htm From rob at logie.tv Mon Oct 26 17:50:43 2009 From: rob at logie.tv (rob@logie.tv) Date: Mon Oct 26 17:50:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cool Electric Bicycle ..... Message-ID: A very cool spin on the electric bike ..... http://pimobility.com/picycle_limited/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091026/41188f0b/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 02:52:27 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Oct 27 02:53:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd Message-ID: Westside commuters will have noticed the return of the metal plates on the bike lane inbound on Sylvan Rd at Toowong. A contractor is doing the pipeworks there. Pretty poor timing as Council has just finished patching, resealing and marking that road. Some of the new bike symbols are gone yet again. Dodgy patches have been made to the water service covers which have sunk already (council's efforts last time were to fix previous dodgy patches that had sunken) The real highlight though, are the large polished metal plates that have been placed smack bang across the bike lane. No warnings, no lighting, and like riding on ice when wet as they were yesterday. I just have no idea how they can get to be there, it's like nobody is even aware it is a bike lane and no safety checklist has been done by the contractor or council. Is anybody really concerned unless there is an accident? The upside tho is that unlike the previous ones placed by Origin this contractor has been courteous enough to build up some cold mix around the edges so we don't have the 40mm step we had last time. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Towong_-_Sylvan_Road_-_Metal_plates.JPG k From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 05:06:19 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Oct 27 05:07:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cool Electric Bicycle ..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091027/98f010ed/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 27 16:11:11 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Oct 27 16:11:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cadel Evans on Radio National Message-ID: <398012.87758.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/ Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091027/f8aec965/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Tue Oct 27 17:18:56 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Tue Oct 27 17:19:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cadel Evans on Radio National In-Reply-To: <398012.87758.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And book talk and signing Nov 9 at City Hall, Dymocks event, $20/ticket. J. On 28/10/09 7:11 AM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/ > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more < > http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3o > DMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lhaG9vI > Q--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A//au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > . > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/f814986c/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Tue Oct 27 17:23:26 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Tue Oct 27 17:23:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kim, Have you phoned the call centre or sent a Fix-o-gram to Council? Thanks for the warning, but it'll be fixed only if Council knows about it, and I've had reasonable results from both phone & internet complaints. J. On 27/10/09 5:52 PM, "kim" wrote: > Westside commuters will have noticed the return of the metal plates on > the bike lane inbound on Sylvan Rd at Toowong. A contractor is doing the > pipeworks there. Pretty poor timing as Council has just finished > patching, resealing and marking that road. Some of the new bike symbols > are gone yet again. Dodgy patches have been made to the water service > covers which have sunk already (council's efforts last time were to fix > previous dodgy patches that had sunken) The real highlight though, are > the large polished metal plates that have been placed smack bang across > the bike lane. No warnings, no lighting, and like riding on ice when wet > as they were yesterday. I just have no idea how they can get to be > there, it's like nobody is even aware it is a bike lane and no safety > checklist has been done by the contractor or council. Is anybody really > concerned unless there is an accident? The upside tho is that unlike the > previous ones placed by Origin this contractor has been courteous enough > to build up some cold mix around the edges so we don't have the 40mm > step we had last time. > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Towong_-_Sylvan_Road_-_Metal_plates.JPG > > k > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Oct 27 18:40:08 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Oct 27 18:40:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cool Electric Bicycle ..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems to have a 750w motor so would rule it out for oz. (although it does say specs are different for other countries) R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Tuesday, 27 October 2009 8:06 PM To: BikeQld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Cool Electric Bicycle ..... Hmm, quite symmetric looking, you wouldn't want to be a bit under the weather and hop on it the wrong way round, lean forward and miss the handlebars and plant your face in the seat........ I was a bit puzzled by the steering but on closer inspection you can see what looks like the pivot in the big red tube, so the geometry is all pretty standard. Also a bit interesting that the wheel 'spokes' are offset and arranged as they are. The rear has to take the torque both ways during pedalling/powering and braking with the disc brake and the front only one way during braking with the disc. Conventional spokes would be laced both ways to handle this. These chunky ones obviously work in compression as well as tension and I guess it is more for the aesthetic. No doubt you would turn a few heads riding one of those puppies. The design actually reminds me of a bike I had as a young kid which was just a springy arch like that and you had to bounce up and down to propel it along. I wonder what their patent covers. k rob@logie.tv wrote: A very cool spin on the electric bike ..... http://pimobility.com/picycle_limited/ ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/e14c1e21/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 21:44:29 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Oct 27 21:45:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/75a264d1/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Oct 28 00:07:24 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Oct 28 00:07:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091028050740.IYQB28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Totally agree Kim ...! In the nations biggest local authority with expertise authorised to carry out engineering works costed in the tens of billions of dollars, it isn't about competence. Far more it is the fact there are too many Mexicans who don't seem to remember (or were not here) when BCC decided cycling was a "good thing" ...! Clearly it is by far the best solution for Council if an individual rings up and complains ... that's why Council promotes that process ... in part so nobody else knows ...! If you don't accept that view, try finding or requesting data on how many complaints relating to say, cycling, were lodged last year and what the complaint was about. The reality is that BCC continues to carry out works of all kinds ... on the cheap ... and in all probability with little if any of the prerequisite surveys, audits etc ... to save money and reliant on a secret complaints system to cover any mistakes. It is a bit like the problem caused by people who have crashes in similar situations due to substandard facilities, but then don't pursue the Council for costs and damages ... the complaints and their causes then don't exist ... Is BCC subject to any form of Quality Assurance process? That is another question that might well be pursued. If it does, is it open to inspection? Or does Council need to do nothing because it chooses to rely, as in this case, on putting the blame/responsibility on somebody else? BTW if you ask to see the pre-project material, Council will reject that as it is for internal operational use not for public scrutiny ...! Should we have to try to pay for and use FOI ??? And in case anybody thinks it is only cycling facilities, it isn't ...! Its just that you tend not to know about the other places the same sorts of problems occur .. because they too are based on secret individual complaints. This is why we appear to be a bunch of whingers to anyone not familiar with what should be done ... and sadly, that includes the Councillors and the Lord Mayor ... who believe what they are told by their bureaucrats ... so no need to investigate further.. MY................. At 12:44 PM 28/10/2009, kim wrote: >Hi John, > >I would hope that Council knew about it because it is a major >project to decommission the water main from the city out to the west >side which dates from the 1800's and projects of this nature all >need to have an approved safety audit done. Sure, I have reported >it, most of the works and ATU folk in Council know me as the regular >complainer regarding cycling issues, but it is not just a matter of >a simple fix that concerns me. I had met up with Council Works >people there not long ago to discuss many of the problems with the >pavement and markings which they then fixed up. At that time we >discussed the control that Council had over contractors doing the >works there, as that was much of the problem. And here we are just a >few months later and more of exactly the same is happening with yet >another contractor. That's what concerns me. I know we can report >problems as we see them, and some of us make the effort to do that, >but the real solution is to make sure that the problems do not keep >recurring when they could be avoided by doing things by the books. >It is very unlikely too that the contractor will just whip out there >and pull those plates up. It is raining as I type and the risk is >still there. I have been told by Council's project manager for this >that the contractor, Tenix, has yet to go out there and investigate >it. It's not just the metal plates that are dodgy, on the opposite >side they have claimed much of the parking/bike lane to store their >diggers and equipment and there is no prior warning for cyclists >that the lane is constricted or there are any works in progress, nor >are there any reflective measures to highlight the closure in the >dark. It's as if the bike lane was not considered important and they >were just taking up a few parking places. That's what gets me grumpy. > >k > >John Nightingale wrote: >> >>Kim, Have you phoned the call centre or sent a Fix-o-gram to Council? Thanks >>for the warning, but it'll be fixed only if Council knows about it, and I've >>had reasonable results from both phone & internet complaints. >>J. >> >> >>On 27/10/09 5:52 PM, "kim" >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Westside commuters will have noticed the return of the metal plates on >>>the bike lane inbound on Sylvan Rd at Toowong. A contractor is doing the >>>pipeworks there. Pretty poor timing as Council has just finished >>>patching, resealing and marking that road. Some of the new bike symbols >>>are gone yet again. Dodgy patches have been made to the water service >>>covers which have sunk already (council's efforts last time were to fix >>>previous dodgy patches that had sunken) The real highlight though, are >>>the large polished metal plates that have been placed smack bang across >>>the bike lane. No warnings, no lighting, and like riding on ice when wet >>>as they were yesterday. I just have no idea how they can get to be >>>there, it's like nobody is even aware it is a bike lane and no safety >>>checklist has been done by the contractor or council. Is anybody really >>>concerned unless there is an accident? The upside tho is that unlike the >>>previous ones placed by Origin this contractor has been courteous enough >>>to build up some cold mix around the edges so we don't have the 40mm >>>step we had last time. >>> >>>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Towong_-_Sylvan_Road_-_Metal_plates.JPG >>> >>>k >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>bikeqld mailing list >>>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.34/2463 - Release Date: >10/27/09 15:50:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/1f67f081/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Wed Oct 28 01:02:29 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Wed Oct 28 01:02:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: <20091028050740.IYQB28036.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: Gentlemen, If you can take a moment to two from your mutual harummphing to consider who is going to act to remedy the initial problem... Kim, many thanks again for drawing the Sylvan Rd imbroglio to list subscribers? attention. I, for one, will avoid the route until the steel plates are gone. But I assumed fixing it was also a goal. For that purpose, the bikeqld list is of no significance. We know that Council is a multi-faceted organisation beset with information asymmetries and agency problems (as we economists call them). How to cut through those problems to get something done is the purpose of the call centre and its trendy off-shoot, the FixoGram. How many of Council?s departments have anything to do with the problem? Lots, including contractors. The protocols of call centre and FixoGram logs are the way through, and have proved to work quite well, better than most alternatives in other organisations, as evidenced by the early and eager acceptance of the call centre by residents and businesses alike. Michael, don?t look for evil conspiracies in every element of Council and government?s bureaucracies. They are simply put-upon and usually overworked officials trying to use the information they have within the arcane complexities of the organisation. It?s extremely imperfect and will always be so, thus the agency issues (who?s doing what for why and for whom?) and information asymmetries (who know more about this but less about that and vice versa?). So, give them a break and get the job logged, if it?s that serious, and don?t assume ?they? know what ?other theys? are doing. J. On 28/10/09 3:07 PM, "Michael Yeates" wrote: > Totally agree Kim ...! > > In the nations biggest local authority with expertise authorised to carry out > engineering works costed in the tens of billions of dollars, it isn't about > competence. > > Far more it is the fact there are too many Mexicans who don't seem to remember > (or were not here) when BCC decided cycling was a "good thing" ...! > > Clearly it is by far the best solution for Council if an individual rings up > and complains ... that's why Council promotes that process ... in part so > nobody else knows ...! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/f18f61da/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Oct 28 01:06:14 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Oct 28 01:06:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "most of the works and ATU folk in Council know me as the regular complainer valued critical assessor with high integrity and deep knowledge regarding cycling issues" ;) Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/188f6e2f/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Wed Oct 28 02:21:49 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Wed Oct 28 02:22:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Good on you, Yani! Keep up the good work :) J. On 28/10/09 4:06 PM, "Yani" wrote: > ?most of the works and ATU folk in Council know me as the regular complainer > valued critical assessor with high integrity and deep knowledge regarding > cycling issues? > > ;) > > Yani > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/13f20a7b/attachment-0001.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Wed Oct 28 04:08:01 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Wed Oct 28 04:09:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Ice skating on Sylvan Rd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/94c7b583/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 28 20:49:49 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 28 20:50:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? Message-ID: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091028/9b68c5a0/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Wed Oct 28 22:44:59 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Wed Oct 28 22:46:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091029/ac24deae/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 29 02:43:46 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 29 02:44:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091029074343.JLSE17290.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Kim ... The bus driver is probably one of those "Mexicans" I referred to ... maybe the newcomers should have to have an "M" plate ...! But beware ... according to no lesser authority than the RACV, it is worth checking ... he might know the Australian Road Rules ... but not the Queensland variations to them. But then he would not be expecting cyclists to use the footpath ... unless he has learned that Qld variation ... but not others ...! MY................... At 01:44 PM 29/10/2009, kim wrote: >Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to >quoted-printable by laika.gnusto.com id n9T3k8Pl019326 > >More of the same troll journalism, I wonder if >those columnists draw straws to see who is going >to write the anti-cyclists article this week. > >As to whether we can expect that up here; a >friend of mine got abused by a BCC bus driver >when riding in the bus lane from Caxton St down >to Roma St. When he caught up to the bus driver >to explain that cycles were allowed in the bus >lane, the driver got very abusive and said he >should be using the footpath. I don't think >anything justifies a professional driver making >an unsafe judgement to pass a cyclist or squeeze >a cyclist when it is unsafe to do so, regardless >of whether the cyclist is in the right or wrong. > >I do think there is a great lack of >understanding of the rules about bikes using bus >lanes too. BCC just constructed a bikeway >between Dean St and Miskin St in Toowong which >travels along a short 'bus thoroughfare'. Now is >that to be regarded as a 'bus lane' (despite the >lack of signs and BL pavement markings) which we >can ride in by default? Or do we simply treat >all No Entry Buses Excepted signs to also except >cyclists? BCC seems to think this is the case. >If this was the case we would probably find we >could just ride into bus depot workshops >too.? The Qld. road rules that state that the >'B' signal lights also apply to bicycles only >appear in the section of special rules for buses >(at least they did when I last looked) and don't >appear in the section of special rules for cyclists. > >k > > >Anthony Lee wrote: >>http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html >>? >>Anthony Lee >>The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >>........-- __o >>....-- _ \<,_ >>........(_) / (_) >>E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >> >> >> >>Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: >270.14.37/2466 - Release Date: 10/29/09 05:39:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091029/aef217f2/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Oct 29 18:07:42 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Oct 29 18:07:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don?t usually have much time for Ms Devine but some of what she says this time did make some sense: ?Most bike paths turned out to be little more than white paint on a road, with no room for a bike between parked cars and traffic.? And.. ?Attempts to retrofit roads to allow equal access to bikes and pedestrians just makes them more dangerous and simply adds to Sydney's already woeful gridlock.? BTW the cyclist in question was riding illegally on a busway where there was absolutely no provision for cyclists ie a concrete canyon (have a look at the video). R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:50 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/c5d7e0f7/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 29 18:55:39 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Oct 29 18:55:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Message-ID: <833551.98191.qm@web44805.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Is there a map/artist's rendering of the Bowen Hills landbridge to be? Does it get us across O'Connell Terrace into the Valley over the rail line. Where is it to be? And what progress on the RNA redevelopment announced six months ago? Todays Courier has this note attributed to the plan of the Clem7; 'Too expensive' to link riverside cycle paths: Government....... A spokeswoman for the Airport Link project said new bikeways would be in place progressively until 2014. They will include: - new cycleways along Breakfast Creek under Lutwyche Road to the new Lutwyche bus station; - a land bridge and cycleway at Bowen Hills as part of the Clem 7 project; - cycle paths near Kedron Brook through to Sandgate Road and out to the Airport and; - new bikeways through Kalinga Park at Clayfield." __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 29 18:55:24 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 29 18:55:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Green BAZ ??? Where ...? Message-ID: <20091029235540.GSWR9934.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Some will be aware of a BQ - UQ survey on cycling and health ... it is worth supporting if the info is made widely available. http://pacer.hms.uq.edu.au/survey/index.php?sid=17615&lang=en However I was intrigued (to say the least) when I came across the following very confusing description in amongst some question options ... Using designated on-road bike lanes, such as the bicycle awareness lanes painted green On the road (no bicycle lanes) Other Surely the BFZ > BAZ hasn't had yet another change ... the BAZ was NEVER a "lane" and NEVER a "designated lane" ... indeed EXACTLY the opposite ...! So what exactly is "painted green" ... has the BIKE symbol changed from yellow to green ? Where is there an example of this facility? Or, given it seems reasonable to expect a cycling advocacy organisation to be precise and accurate, is this another case of increasing community acceptance (or tolerance) of organisations failing to ensure quality ... or put another way,"due diligence" or QA ie "quality assurance" ? It is a simple question of being correct and therefore reliably informative ... or not and therefore furthering confusion and/or misunderstanding. MY................................. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/60368d35/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 29 18:34:04 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 29 18:56:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091029235624.BXUE1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Interestingly, while the two are statements but based on opinion, the first isn't all inclusive as it allows that some situations are better than others. However the second statement is dogmatic and arguably is wrong .. but as an opinion or belief, well what can be done? Accept it as reality in the same way we are to expect BCC to keep on (re)producing "dangerous" or non-complying cycling facilities or just ignore and accept the consequences? It might however be more accurate to say something like ... Previous attempts to retrofit roads to allow equal access to bikes and pedestrians has potentially just makes made them more dangerous and simply adds added to Sydney's already woeful gridlock. Lets face it, lots of other causes might be attributed to the roads becoming viewed as more dangerous and/or adding to gridlock ... and most will have more than a grain of truth ...! It is the inaccuracy and implications that are the secret of these kinds of media reports. MY......................... At 09:07 AM 30/10/2009, Richard Hockey wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA58EC.9EDAD88D" > >I don't usually have much time for Ms Devine but some of what she >says this time did make some sense: >"Most bike paths turned out to be little more than white paint on a >road, with no room for a bike between parked cars and traffic." > >And.. >"Attempts to retrofit roads to allow equal access to bikes and >pedestrians just makes them more dangerous and simply adds to >Sydney's already woeful gridlock." > >BTW the cyclist in question was riding illegally on a busway where >there was absolutely no provision for cyclists ie a concrete canyon >(have a look at the video). >R > > > >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee >Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:50 AM >To: BIQ >Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? > >http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.39/2468 - Release Date: >10/30/09 05:49:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/a247f3ce/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Oct 29 19:02:27 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Oct 29 19:02:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] UK bike to work scheme Message-ID: http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/uk-government-expands-cycle-to-work-scheme-23768 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/ed854596/attachment-0001.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Oct 29 19:54:00 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Oct 29 19:54:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BICENTENNIAL BIKEWAY CHANGES Message-ID: http://www.bq.org.au/_downloads/091014notification.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/86b72c33/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Oct 29 20:08:21 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Oct 29 20:08:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BICENTENNIAL BIKEWAY CHANGES In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091030010816.BFIZ19767.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Richard ... Large people and/or cyclists with wider bikes, trailers etc, should try to find another route ...? ... 60cms isn't much for a bike and a would-be cyclist walking alongside it...! Why not just close it ...? Concern at BCC that would show there are no other routes to the southwestern suburbs? Why not "Share the Road" ... ? 40km/h or slower ...? Just for part of a weekend? Or would that show the lack of connectivity between on- and off-road? MY..................... At 10:54 AM 30/10/2009, Richard Hockey wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA58FB.783EE135" > >http://www.bq.org.au/_downloads/091014notification.pdf > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/dd06654a/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 29 20:15:47 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Oct 29 20:15:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? In-Reply-To: <833551.98191.qm@web44805.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <833551.98191.qm@web44805.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434803.87908.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Mich, Is the article on the CM's website? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Fri, 30 October, 2009 9:55:39 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Is there a map/artist's rendering of the Bowen Hills landbridge to be? Does it get us across O'Connell Terrace into the Valley over the rail line. Where is it to be? And what progress on the RNA redevelopment announced six months ago? Todays Courier has this note attributed to the plan of the Clem7; 'Too expensive' to link riverside cycle paths: Government....... A spokeswoman for the Airport Link project said new bikeways would be in place progressively until 2014. They will include: - new cycleways along Breakfast Creek under Lutwyche Road to the new Lutwyche bus station; - a land bridge and cycleway at Bowen Hills as part of the Clem 7 project; - cycle paths near Kedron Brook through to Sandgate Road and out to the Airport and; - new bikeways through Kalinga Park at Clayfield." __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091029/b0d86c63/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Oct 29 21:02:26 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Oct 29 21:02:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? In-Reply-To: <434803.87908.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <833551.98191.qm@web44805.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <434803.87908.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Found this here: http://www.brisconnections.com.au/TheProject/Design/tabid/107/Default.aspx Cycle and pedestrian paths New connections on Brisbane's north side will join existing pathways to link parklands and creeks with paths for pedestrian, recreational and commuter cyclists. Featuring: ? A new landbridge at Bowen Hills connecting Mann Park and the Northey Street parkland along Breakfast Creek ? Integration with commuter cycle paths allowing dedicated access directly into the CBD ? New busway station at Lutwyche integrating community connections across Lutwyche Road and opens into Bradshaw Park through a new plaza ? Upgraded, safe underpass connects the new Kedron busway station and new paths joining up to Kalinga Park ? Another new land bridge at Toombul joins paths along Diggers' Drive to Sandgate Road R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Friday, 30 October 2009 11:16 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Hi Mich, Is the article on the CM's website? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Fri, 30 October, 2009 9:55:39 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Is there a map/artist's rendering of the Bowen Hills landbridge to be? Does it get us across O'Connell Terrace into the Valley over the rail line. Where is it to be? And what progress on the RNA redevelopment announced six months ago? Todays Courier has this note attributed to the plan of the Clem7; 'Too expensive' to link riverside cycle paths: Government....... A spokeswoman for the Airport Link project said new bikeways would be in place progressively until 2014. They will include: - new cycleways along Breakfast Creek under Lutwyche Road to the new Lutwyche bus station; - a land bridge and cycleway at Bowen Hills as part of the Clem 7 project; - cycle paths near Kedron Brook through to Sandgate Road and out to the Airport and; - new bikeways through Kalinga Park at Clayfield." __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/e0a22979/attachment-0001.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Oct 29 21:33:39 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Oct 29 21:33:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] A news article from the cyclist's perspective, in response Message-ID: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-road-is-there-to-share-20091030-ho1x.html?comments=15#comments -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/411f8837/attachment.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Fri Oct 30 06:08:22 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Fri Oct 30 06:09:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] UK bike to work scheme In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6DE63270379E49749BE48A560F648B0A@norm> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 49 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/1af6105d/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 7848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/1af6105d/attachment-0003.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 2159 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/1af6105d/attachment-0004.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/1af6105d/attachment-0005.gif From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Fri Oct 30 08:08:08 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Fri Oct 30 08:08:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Message-ID: <349880.83659.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sorry Brisbane Times http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/too-expensive-to-link-riverside-cycle-paths-government-20091029-hnll.html I believe that there are intentions to land bridge Mann Park to Northey St but I can't find the landbridge location on the BrisConnections maps (thanks Richard). It could conceivably evaporate like the Boggo Road to Princess Alexandra Hospital footbridge. The undertaking to continue commuter links to the CBD is intriguing. Do the new high quality commuter links include walking your bike across O'Connell Terrace and then across Bowen Bridge Road to Gilchrist St? Or is it to be land bridge across Lutwyche Road to Northey St, across the new bridge and them hump it up Hetherington St for a quick blast acoss Herston St to rejoin Gilchrist? The RNA redevelopment maps are long on hype, short on detail http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25887809-5012473,00.html The plan shown on the redevelopment website does not show a bicycle link through sideshow alley to the tunnel under Bowen Bridge Road so walking O'Connell Terrace and Bowen Bridge Road seems to be in order http://www.rnashowgrounds.com.au/_uploads/210_RNA_QAs_28_May_q2_Updated__3_.pdf __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Oct 30 15:35:15 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Oct 30 15:35:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? In-Reply-To: <349880.83659.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <349880.83659.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <505656.98449.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Mich. This is quite relevant to for people traveling from the North and going to new developments in Newstead. Are the BrisConnections maps online? I am thinking rather then explaining in only words, why not do a layout over Google Maps to say what you mean? BTW, I think it is Gilchrist Ave not Gilchrist St. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Fri, 30 October, 2009 11:08:08 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Where is the Bowen Hills Landbridge to be? Sorry Brisbane Times http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/too-expensive-to-link-riverside-cycle-paths-government-20091029-hnll.html I believe that there are intentions to land bridge Mann Park to Northey St but I can't find the landbridge location on the BrisConnections maps (thanks Richard). It could conceivably evaporate like the Boggo Road to Princess Alexandra Hospital footbridge. The undertaking to continue commuter links to the CBD is intriguing. Do the new high quality commuter links include walking your bike across O'Connell Terrace and then across Bowen Bridge Road to Gilchrist St? Or is it to be land bridge across Lutwyche Road to Northey St, across the new bridge and them hump it up Hetherington St for a quick blast acoss Herston St to rejoin Gilchrist? The RNA redevelopment maps are long on hype, short on detail http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25887809-5012473,00.html The plan shown on the redevelopment website does not show a bicycle link through sideshow alley to the tunnel under Bowen Bridge Road so walking O'Connell Terrace and Bowen Bridge Road seems to be in order http://www.rnashowgrounds.com.au/_uploads/210_RNA_QAs_28_May_q2_Updated__3_.pdf __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091030/993590da/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Fri Oct 30 17:47:05 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Fri Oct 30 17:47:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008401ca59b2$e9acff00$bd06fd00$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I notice in this week?s (Oct 29) City South News that a cyclist allegedly boarded a bus and punched a (female) driver in Brisbane ? being sought by police. Tarragindi. P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Friday, 30 October 2009 9:08 AM To: Anthony Lee; BIQ Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? I don?t usually have much time for Ms Devine but some of what she says this time did make some sense: ?Most bike paths turned out to be little more than white paint on a road, with no room for a bike between parked cars and traffic.? And.. ?Attempts to retrofit roads to allow equal access to bikes and pedestrians just makes them more dangerous and simply adds to Sydney's already woeful gridlock.? BTW the cyclist in question was riding illegally on a busway where there was absolutely no provision for cyclists ie a concrete canyon (have a look at the video). R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:50 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091031/acdca324/attachment.htm From scott.rowan at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 20:07:26 2009 From: scott.rowan at gmail.com (Scott Rowan) Date: Fri Oct 30 20:07:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] NYTimes: Reality Deals Setback to Paris Bike Program Message-ID: <47DC1FB6-2F40-4288-A4A6-13E0215BF5F8@gmail.com> I don't think we'll see anything like this level of stolen/damaged bikes here (though there is bound to be some) but an interesting read nonetheless. Scott Reality Deals Setback to Paris Bike Program V?lib?, Paris?s bicycle-rental system, has inspired a new urban ethos for the era of climate change, but it has also attracted some old urban curses: vandalism and theft. http://s.nyt.com/u/WK8 From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Fri Oct 30 21:10:37 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Fri Oct 30 21:11:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] NYTimes: Reality Deals Setback to Paris Bike Program In-Reply-To: <47DC1FB6-2F40-4288-A4A6-13E0215BF5F8@gmail.com> References: <47DC1FB6-2F40-4288-A4A6-13E0215BF5F8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091031120443.D1962@singha.lister.id.au> The NY Times must be having a slow news week and scraping around the bottom of their old press release basket looking for something to beat up. The BBC ran a very similar story back in February: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/2009-February/006090.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881079.stm Allegedly both respected media outlets are just doing JC Decaux's dirty PR work in its contract negotiations: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/2009-February/006104.html http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/12/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly-exaggerated/ Cheers, Ian On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Scott Rowan wrote: > I don't think we'll see anything like this level of stolen/damaged bikes here > (though there is bound to be some) but an interesting read nonetheless. > > Scott > > Reality Deals Setback to Paris Bike Program > > V?lib?, Paris?s bicycle-rental system, has inspired a new urban ethos > for the era of climate change, but it has also attracted some old urban > curses: vandalism and theft. > > http://s.nyt.com/u/WK8 > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Fri Oct 30 21:22:39 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Fri Oct 30 21:23:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091031121126.D1962@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, kim wrote: [snip] > I do think there is a great lack of understanding of the rules about > bikes using bus lanes too. BCC just constructed a bikeway between Dean St > and Miskin St in Toowong which travels along a short 'bus thoroughfare'. Has it actually been finished yet? I haven't been in town much in recent months, and haven't seen it at all for a few weeks, but the green paint that went down circa July or August is supposed to only be part of the job. ATU told me last week that reason for the delay in completing it is staff shortage in the unit doing the job (transport infrastructure, I think?). I presume that a proper edge line and new signage is part of the remaining work. > Now is that to be regarded as a 'bus lane' (despite the lack of signs > and BL pavement markings) which we can ride in by default? Or do we > simply treat all No Entry Buses Excepted signs to also except cyclists? > BCC seems to think this is the case. If this was the case we would > probably find we could just ride into bus depot workshops too.? I believe "No Entry Buses Excepted" is deliberately used over "Bus Lane" where exclusion of bikes and taxis is desired. > The Qld. road rules that state that the 'B' signal lights also apply to > bicycles only appear in the section of special rules for buses (at least > they did when I last looked) and don't appear in the section of special > rules for cyclists. I guess they could rename them bus-and-bike lanes, and introduce a new section of special rules that apply to both buses and bikes. Although I guess that should really be bus-and-bike-and-taxi-and-emergency-vehicle lanes. Cheers, Ian From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Sat Oct 31 00:55:53 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Sat Oct 31 00:57:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Should we expecting this? In-Reply-To: <20091031121126.D1962@singha.lister.id.au> References: <688731.30024.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20091031121126.D1962@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: Hi Ian, Yep, they painted on the edge line at the end of the week and added a big Bus Lane pavement marking. It was pretty obvious that the QRR only permit cycles on a designated bus lane and that is defined in the QRR. They seem to have done the line markings on Miskin while they were there as some had been a bit obscured by the stuff up with the traffic calming they put down and pulled up. The Miskin end of the green still shows the outline of some sort of kerb or chevron build out (perhaps like the Dean St end) which had not been made at the time I looked. I hope that they don't actually build a kerb 'build out' there as most cyclists I see like to enter directly from Miskin St rather than the dog leg across the new little concrete bit they made which is not that convenient or safe methinks. I think that if it does end up as just a painted chevron area with a single line border then it should still be legal to ride over it by entering from Miskin. I think the buses would prefer no lumps too as they need to take the left turn pretty wide. I have been trying to use the driveway ramp into the Subaru place as this aligns more directly with the green bike lane so you don't risk going diagonal contra-flow across Miskin. I reckon that if they extended the refuge up to here it would be fine, the road is same width there and gives cars a bit more room to merge into the single lane. I did suggest that to the ATU when we met up. (I think Meg there was the only one that listened to my suggestions and made notes at that meet, others were just defensive of the status quo). I note that many cyclists don't use the sharp right angle they built at the Dean St end and just go out onto Dean and cross diagonal to the park. If you have not had a look there for a while, there is also some Council works on the shared path (the complete width) on the corner by Subaru which are pretty dodgy. I noticed a bike went in the hole which had been back filled with soft sand. No real warnings, precautions or detours. I will have to take another look but I am sure there is a white bike symbol in the middle of Miskin St as it comes off the magic roundabout. Not sure if that is new. It might be intended to warn motorists of the crossing but it potentially makes that part of Miskin St a bike lane. Perhaps it was part of the 'well intentioned' efforts by BCC when they put down the traffic calming red treatment at the crossing point? Perhaps I just imagined it too :) Yes, last the list heard you were looking for a bike trailer for a weekend away and then we never heard much more from you..... I thought you must have taken a liking to the camping spot and stayed on :) k