From akayani at aapt.net.au Fri May 1 02:57:32 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Apr 30 09:57:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <20090430103806.K1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com><20090430094147.N1484@singha.lister.id.au> <20090430103806.K1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <39F35B33A7774C15A93A5D9E4CFF37AE@maud> Love the alternative route. It's everything out the footpath that shits me. Green boxes placed in the middle of it and light poles that should be off the footpath. Both of where there is plenty of space to achieve. That whole lack of footpath specification and the junking it up really gets me going. Totally unnecessary and getting worse by the day. It's a wonder there isn't a suburb sign and a wheelie bin there for the workers. No doubt the cracked Telstra manholes are on the other side of the street. Where the edge of the footpath is grooved out to 3" deep and just the right width for a bike wheel. All I can see in the pic is they have closed the path to install a portable dunny. If that is stage one then it's going to go on for a bit. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 5:39 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive BTW for anybody interested who hasn't been there yet, there are some photos on the wiki: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Bicentennial_Bikeway_widening_works Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Fri May 1 03:14:25 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Fri May 1 03:14:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] McGee brothers ordered by High Court to stand trial Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706B4D163@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> More background: see www.woj.com.au AdelaideNow... McGee brothers ordered by High Court to stand trial http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25413351-5006301,00.html Source: www.news.com.au HIT-RUN lawyer Eugene McGee and his brother will stand trial for criminal conspiracy after the High Court today threw out their last-ditch effort to avoid prosecution. Thanks to cfsmtb for the post. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090501/ce564ea8/attachment.htm From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Sun May 3 16:57:51 2009 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Sun May 3 16:57:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Message-ID: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,25422176-952,00.html As always, they're asking "commentators" to throw dung at cyclists... "Traffic controllers to restore safety for cyclists, pedestrians on bikeway By Bruce McMahon A SERIES of brushes between cyclists and pedestrians has forced a stop-go rule on the Bicentennial Bikeway upgrade alongside the Brisbane River. Brisbane City Council has suspended pedestrian access on a 400m section at Milton, in the city's inner-west, sending pedestrians on to a narrow footpath along Coronation Drive. Down below, cyclists - managed by traffic controllers from 5am to 8pm - travel on a temporary construction boardwalk, one direction at a time." continues and asks "Your Say: Are cyclists on the Bicentennial Bikeway out of control?" - nice priming of the pump there. From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun May 3 17:49:38 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun May 3 17:49:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brisbane City Council plans Message-ID: <20090503224924.TFRE12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi ... Recent discussion regarding Brisbane City Council and its plans for cyclists encouraged me to search the BCC cycling web pages for current "proposals" and to briefly contrast them with some earlier "commitments". Its an interesting array of info ... hence the links below for those interested. But first to the widths of the temporary "bikeways" on the Bicentennial Bikeway aka shared footpath. It seems quite clear from the BCC website (see extract below) that 2.2m is to be provided and while this is substandard if it has any vertical barriers either side, I would like to know what width and construction type WAS provided to CBD BUG and/or BQ for consideration in the supposed "consultation" and what was suggested by them in their response/s. It is also worth noting that there are a number of somewhat ambiguous "errors" in the BCC cycling web pages which indicate that the cycling expertise in Council is still way below that required to earn "cycling friendly" status. Maybe a competition to expose the "errors" might be a useful way to assist Council to provide accurate information? Just send your suggestions here for discussion and general acceptance then they can be forwarded to the Lord Mayor and/or to Cr Prentice. As far as what is being done or is intended, the following web references also provide some useful info but as usual there is no comparison so it reads well ... but for those with some knowledge of the history, there is a problem with the maths ...! So it may be useful to know that way back in 1995, the Bicycle Brisbane Plan "recommended" Council "adopt targets of cycle journeys constituting 8% of ALL trips by 2000 and 14% by 2005" ... and supported these targets as achievable "if other recommendations are implemented in the specified time frame." One of the "key recommendations" was "(t)reat bicycles as part of road traffic and provide bicycle lanes on major roads". Further according to Council, the "majority of the 900kms of bikeways recommended in the Draft Plan are on-road" ... a particularly interesting observation given Council had prepared the "draft" Bicycle Brisbane Plan ...! At that time, according to Council, "approximately one third of the city's 330kms of bikeway network is on road Bike route." Now in 2009, we have a plan for only a 5% mode share in 2026 ...! So much for the "cycling friendly" city ... and its leadership, both political and technical. Much as we put in the time and the effort for so many years, it seems safe but open to challenge, to say that in 2009, not much has changed. MY........................... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bicentennial Bikeway - upgrade stage 1 - Park Road to Cribb Street http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1666270146:pc=PC_2644 A 400 metre section of the Bicentennial Bikeway between Park Road and Cribb Street is planned for widening commencing on 30 March. A 2.2 metre wide temporary boardwalk will be constructed around the construction site. An alternate route will also be signed. Construction vehicles may need to access the site at times and Traffic Controllers will be in attendance. Cyclists and pedestrians are urged to exercise caution on the detour as it will be narrower than the current bikeway. For more information about the upgrade of the bikeway, phone Council on 07 3403 8888. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cycling plans and resources http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1666270146:pc=PC_2646 The following links will provide information on Queensland State Government and Brisbane City Council plans to improve the cycling network. Brisbane City Council level Brisbane Active Transport Strategy ? Walking and Cycling Plan 2005-2010 The Walking and Cycling Plan includes policies and actions for increasing walking and cycling. The plan sets out the expansion of the bikeway network to 1,700km. This requires another 1150km, (265km off-road paths and 885km of on-road). Bicycle Brisbane Plan The Bicycle Brisbane Plan is a series of maps that show a comprehensive cycling network for Brisbane. The Bicycle Brisbane Plan is updated by the Brisbane Active Transport Strategy - Walking and Cycling Plan 2005 - 2010 by providing strategic direction on the construction of the cycling network. Transport Plan for Brisbane 2008 - 2026 The Transport Plan for Brisbane 2008 - 2026 presents transport options and outlines the critical background information required for an understanding of the transport challenges facing the city. It extends the planning horizon to 2026 and sets realistic transport mode share targets, with cycling mode share accounting for up to 5% of all trips on an average week day in the year 2026. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/4619767d/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun May 3 18:08:17 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun May 3 18:08:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090503230803.RLYF20107.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Wow ...! That actually seems OK ... except that if the pedestrians are now supposed to use the footpaths on Coro Drive, then presumably the temporary path works for cyclists? So why the need for controllers? Complaints by cyclists against other cyclists? Is there really a speeding problem to justify the complaint of excessive "speed along the bikeway" ? Is there a 15km/h speed limit as on the Goodwill Bridge or in South Bank? If not, why not? Is there any evidence? Or is this a convenient concoction? Or is it as it appears rather excessive concern for cyclists ... suddenly ... and only here? Surely the path isn't being used by "workers" as a convenient part of the construction works site? If so, perhaps that should be drawn to the attention of the appropriate WH&S people? IF the temporary construction is the 2.2m width as reported by Council (see the BCC web pages in my previous email), then the Council is suddenly choosing to be extremely concerned about cyclists ...! Why? Perhaps because Council has now realised someone within Council has allowed the contractors to breach the alleged contractual requirements for the width of the temporary path? An increasing whiff of "corruption" ? Can someone who uses the path get a measurement of the actual width ... preferably a digital photo of the measurement? Interesting too that this project is yet another to use up the $100m ... at this rate there will hardly be any funds left for any of the many useful "new" improvements needed. Perhaps that is the idea ... the $100m is simply or mainly for maintenance ... like road widening ... except we don't get too many "new" roads for cycling ... MY........................................... At 07:57 AM 4/05/2009, Sebastian Tauchmann wrote: >http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,25422176-952,00.html > >As always, they're asking "commentators" to throw dung at cyclists... > > >"Traffic controllers to restore safety for cyclists, pedestrians on bikeway > >By Bruce McMahon > >A SERIES of brushes between cyclists and pedestrians has forced a >stop-go rule on the Bicentennial Bikeway upgrade alongside the >Brisbane River. >Brisbane City Council has suspended pedestrian access on a 400m >section at Milton, in the city's inner-west, sending pedestrians on to >a narrow footpath along Coronation Drive. > >Down below, cyclists - managed by traffic controllers from 5am to 8pm >- travel on a temporary construction boardwalk, one direction at a >time." > >continues and asks "Your Say: Are cyclists on the Bicentennial Bikeway >out of control?" - nice priming of the pump there. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.16/2094 - Release Date: >05/03/09 16:51:00 From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun May 3 18:59:28 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun May 3 18:59:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Seb ... Aside from some of the more useful critiques of BCC cycling policy outcomes on the C-M website, what is also interesting is the following ... The bikeway project, part of the council's $100 million spend on shared cycle paths, will deliver two 400m-long separated pedestrian and cycle paths to make the section between Cribb St and Park Rd safer. Aside from a fair bit of whinging and whining about the way pedestrians assert their "right of way", it seems relatively few cyclists find the bikeway aka "shared footpath" in need of safety improvements (aside from reinstating it as "bikeway" and NOT a "shared footpath"). So is this yet another example of what at first seems to be $100m for cycling but in fact is $100m for pedestrians? I may be as guilty as others in terms of not reading the "good news" carefully ... but this is the first time I recall having noticed that the $100m is for "SHARED cycle paths" ...! So NOTHING for "bikeways"? Also there is the project cost:benefit ratio. What exactly is the cost for this 400m of improvement .. multiply that by 5 to get to Toowong = how much? Is that worth spending ... or are there other solutions? Or other places where there would be more "bang for the buck"? (Reinstating) permanent bus lanes on Coro Drive might cost as much as perhaps $250,000 in line marking and signs and symbols ... and allow say another $250,000 for proper kerb ramp access and exit points for cyclists who could then enjoy cycling on the road as some do now (and quite a few more would, and did, with the bus lane in operation). So is this project to widen the "bikeway" also primarily to continue to benefit motorists and continue to the "disbenefit" for bus passengers on Coro Drive? Where these separated facilities have been used in other places, they still are not "safe" as people tend to cross them and if one path is a bit congested, use the other ..! One example was later converted to ONE WAY operation but shared by peds AND cyclists ... not sure how it now operates ...! Given the 2500m length and it being straight, I am not sure whether the operation of the separated paths at Kangaroo Point provide a useful comparison with Coro Drive. Any thoughts about any of these observations? MY............................ At 07:57 AM 4/05/2009, Sebastian Tauchmann wrote: >http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,25422176-952,00.html > >As always, they're asking "commentators" to throw dung at cyclists... > > >"Traffic controllers to restore safety for cyclists, pedestrians on bikeway > >By Bruce McMahon > >A SERIES of brushes between cyclists and pedestrians has forced a >stop-go rule on the Bicentennial Bikeway upgrade alongside the >Brisbane River. >Brisbane City Council has suspended pedestrian access on a 400m >section at Milton, in the city's inner-west, sending pedestrians on to >a narrow footpath along Coronation Drive. > >Down below, cyclists - managed by traffic controllers from 5am to 8pm >- travel on a temporary construction boardwalk, one direction at a >time." > >continues and asks "Your Say: Are cyclists on the Bicentennial Bikeway >out of control?" - nice priming of the pump there. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.16/2094 - Release Date: >05/03/09 16:51:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/83b93650/attachment-0001.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Mon May 4 13:30:56 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Sun May 3 20:31:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> I took a swipe at them ;) Arr Hello it's the BIKEWAY PROJECT not the brain dead dumb arse I won't move over ignorant pedestrian and here is a funny look project. Maybe things without wheels should use the footpath on Coronation Drive. I've seen a hell of a lot more ignorant pedestrian than ignorant cyclist. Cyclist aren't looking to come off the bike trust me. It's high time pedestrian behavior was addressed as totally sub standard and the Courier Mail stopped inferring some right of stupidity to them. I can tell you for a fact that pedestrian behavior is completely ignorant and the only good pedestrians are those that are cyclist. Likewise the best drivers on the road who don't try to go out of their way to knock off cyclists are those with bike racks attached to the car. High time the Courier Mail stopped beating up cyclists and took on the real idiots. Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/24b59d40/attachment.htm From j at jamver.id.au Sun May 3 20:44:16 2009 From: j at jamver.id.au (James Lever) Date: Sun May 3 20:45:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C0792CD-CB08-4759-B037-9571B8D9A609@jamver.id.au> On 04/05/2009, at 7:57 AM, Sebastian Tauchmann wrote: > "Traffic controllers to restore safety for cyclists, pedestrians on > bikeway Cycled along there this morning and it works really well. Due to the media beat-up there was a channel 10 reporter and camera down there at the Toowong end of the bypass filming etc. It's a stop and go (as reported earlier) for cyclists only. I really don't see it being a problem for it to be two-way traffic if it is cyclists only. There is enough room for single file cycling each way on that temporary path. James From cameraperson at bigpond.com Mon May 4 01:28:18 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Mon May 4 01:29:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> Message-ID: <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning On 05/05/2009, at 4:30, "Yani" wrote: > I took a swipe at them ;) > > > > Arr Hello it's the BIKEWAY PROJECT not the brain dead dumb arse I > won't move over ignorant pedestrian and here is a funny look > project. Maybe things without wheels should use the footpath on > Coronation Drive. > > > > I've seen a hell of a lot more ignorant pedestrian than ignorant > cyclist. Cyclist aren't looking to come off the bike trust me. It's > high time pedestrian behavior was addressed as totally sub standard > and the Courier Mail stopped inferring some right of stupidity to > them. I can tell you for a fact that pedestrian behavior is > completely ignorant and the only good pedestrians are those that are > cyclist. Likewise the best drivers on the road who don't try to go > out of their way to knock off cyclists are those with bike racks > attached to the car. > > > > High time the Courier Mail stopped beating up cyclists and took on > the real idiots. > > > > Yani > > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/80bcab86/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon May 4 02:55:03 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon May 4 02:55:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <833908.52577.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I think it is hard to say if there are more bad cyclists than bad pedestrians. Unfortunately, bad cyclists seems to get more press. I remember one morning heading to work to find a girl knock of her bike because of some pedestrian changing direction without checking whether there was anyone behind her. I still see joggers who make U-turn without warning. Even if you riding at 10kph, you can't stop on a dime. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Mick Fanning To: Yani Cc: bikeqld Sent: Monday, 4 May, 2009 4:28:18 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning On 05/05/2009, at 4:30, "Yani" wrote: I took a swipe at them ;) Arr Hello it's the BIKEWAY PROJECT not the brain dead dumb arse I won't move over ignorant pedestrian and here is a funny look project. Maybe things without wheels should use the footpath on Coronation Drive . I've seen a hell of a lot more ignorant pedestrian than ignorant cyclist. Cyclist aren't looking to come off the bike trust me. It's high time pedestrian behavior was addressed as totally sub standard and the Courier Mail stopped inferring some right of stupidity to them. I can tell you for a fact that pedestrian behavior is completely ignorant and the only good pedestrians are those that are cyclist. Likewise the best drivers on the road who don't try to go out of their way to knock off cyclists are those with bike racks attached to the car. High time the Courier Mail stopped beating up cyclists and took on the real idiots. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/cea80945/attachment-0001.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Mon May 4 03:36:52 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon May 4 03:37:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <833908.52577.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> <833908.52577.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e101c9cc93$7d1421e0$773c65a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Whichever group (ped, cyclist, motorist), they are samples of the same population ? from the same families, schools, occupations, ethnic groups etc. ? with the same capacity for stupidity, bloody-mindedness and criminality. ... unless you can prove a difference or even have some real reason to hypothesise that. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Monday, 4 May 2009 5:55 PM To: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody I think it is hard to say if there are more bad cyclists than bad pedestrians. Unfortunately, bad cyclists seems to get more press. I remember one morning heading to work to find a girl knock of her bike because of some pedestrian changing direction without checking whether there was anyone behind her. I still see joggers who make U-turn without warning. Even if you riding at 10kph, you can't stop on a dime. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Mick Fanning To: Yani Cc: bikeqld Sent: Monday, 4 May, 2009 4:28:18 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning On 05/05/2009, at 4:30, "Yani" wrote: I took a swipe at them ;) Arr Hello it's the BIKEWAY PROJECT not the brain dead dumb arse I won't move over ignorant pedestrian and here is a funny look project. Maybe things without wheels should use the footpath on Coronation Drive . I've seen a hell of a lot more ignorant pedestrian than ignorant cyclist. Cyclist aren't looking to come off the bike trust me. It's high time pedestrian behavior was addressed as totally sub standard and the Courier Mail stopped inferring some right of stupidity to them. I can tell you for a fact that pedestrian behavior is completely ignorant and the only good pedestrians are those that are cyclist. Likewise the best drivers on the road who don't try to go out of their way to knock off cyclists are those with bike racks attached to the car. High time the Courier Mail stopped beating up cyclists and took on the real idiots. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. Get it now. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/94da3f51/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Mon May 4 05:57:13 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Mon May 4 06:02:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FECA09.6020001@teegee.com.au> I am not too surprised that Council has backed down on their ban-the-bike fiasco down there. It is just like what happened with the sewer works. Council is not in a good position to enforce such a ban because of their lack of an effective, safe and legal alternative route for the banned cyclists. I think they were just 'hoping' that cyclists would buy their feeble attempt and not call their bluff. I think the current 'compromise' is just to save a bit of face for them and perhaps with time we will see even the silly one way at a time regime dropped altogether. That would seem sensible and safe. I think in the meantime I might try riding along one way when I get my turn from the traffic controller and then turn around halfway and come back against the other flow of bikes and see what they think about that. I'll then sue them if it proves to be a dangerous situation that they have not prevented happening. Hey how many of our two-way bike paths are narrower than that 2m structure anyway, I can think of heaps. Kangaroo Pt for one, and where is the need for controllers on those? k Sebastian Tauchmann wrote: > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,25422176-952,00.html > > As always, they're asking "commentators" to throw dung at cyclists... > > > "Traffic controllers to restore safety for cyclists, pedestrians on bikeway > > By Bruce McMahon > > A SERIES of brushes between cyclists and pedestrians has forced a > stop-go rule on the Bicentennial Bikeway upgrade alongside the > Brisbane River. > Brisbane City Council has suspended pedestrian access on a 400m > section at Milton, in the city's inner-west, sending pedestrians on to > a narrow footpath along Coronation Drive. > > Down below, cyclists - managed by traffic controllers from 5am to 8pm > - travel on a temporary construction boardwalk, one direction at a > time." > > continues and asks "Your Say: Are cyclists on the Bicentennial Bikeway > out of control?" - nice priming of the pump there. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From kim at teegee.com.au Mon May 4 06:18:26 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Mon May 4 06:23:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What are these new BCC 'Bike Routes'? Message-ID: <49FECF02.5000806@teegee.com.au> I noticed recently on M?ller Rd up Carseldine way that Council has a designated 'Bike Route'. I am not sure if this is described on any of the cycleways maps as these are so varied, inaccurate and out of date these days that I think they are of little value. The route is not defined by the 'traditional' yellow bike BAZ symbols nor did there appear to be a white bike designated bike lane. As a matter of fact I was not certain of whether this 'Route' was actually on-road or on the shared path as it was simply designated by a series of closely spaced blue and white 'informational signs' maybe spaced about 50 or 60m apart on the edge of the footpath/nature strip. I am left wondering whether this is a new (low cost / least effort) initiative of Council for their additional 1000km or so of bikeway that they committed to building by the end of next year (or perhaps that was next financial year, I wont rush them). Seriously tho, I would like to consider the pros and cons of such an approach, I don't seem to recall it being mentioned, but perhaps you guys in the BUGs may have heard some mention from Council? Yes? No? I am sure BQ must be involved with it too. I must say that the regular signage did catch my eye and unlike the pavement markings, I could imagine that these would require less maintenance and have night time visible properties. Unlike the BAZ tho they don't give an indication to motorists where they might expect a cyclist to be riding. Anyone know of any other such 'Bicycle Routes' designated this way? I don't know just much traffic they get up there on M?ller, perhaps it is a lower traffic count initiative to the BAZ? Any clues? k From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue May 5 00:59:20 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Mon May 4 07:59:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <2448D63391AE46C8AB402FBBC7A03732@maud> I've seen a few cyclists do things I wouldn't do but they managed them with style and showed skill. The point more being that cyclists make better drivers and pedestrians when they are in that role. The group who are the most ignorant are the 'only' people. Only use a car and never walk, only walk and never use a car and just as likely 'only cycle' although that would be one tiny tiny demographic. Then there is group as in pack mentality. Likely a pack of cyclists is as bad as any pack of anything human. I can say that as a pedestrian I've never had an issue ever with a cyclist. And the reason??? I give them a bit of space. Nor do I have issues with cyclists when I'm a car driver. If only the reverse was true. Yani _____ From: Mick Fanning [mailto:cameraperson@bigpond.com] Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:28 PM To: Yani Cc: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning On 05/05/2009, at 4:30, "Yani" wrote: I took a swipe at them ;) Arr Hello it's the BIKEWAY PROJECT not the brain dead dumb arse I won't move over ignorant pedestrian and here is a funny look project. Maybe things without wheels should use the footpath on Coronation Drive. I've seen a hell of a lot more ignorant pedestrian than ignorant cyclist. Cyclist aren't looking to come off the bike trust me. It's high time pedestrian behavior was addressed as totally sub standard and the Courier Mail stopped inferring some right of stupidity to them. I can tell you for a fact that pedestrian behavior is completely ignorant and the only good pedestrians are those that are cyclist. Likewise the best drivers on the road who don't try to go out of their way to knock off cyclists are those with bike racks attached to the car. High time the Courier Mail stopped beating up cyclists and took on the real idiots. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090504/6b6ca025/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue May 5 18:24:20 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue May 5 18:24:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <2448D63391AE46C8AB402FBBC7A03732@maud> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> <2448D63391AE46C8AB402FBBC7A03732@maud> Message-ID: <20090505232403.UKLO12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... How is the Coro Drive ONE WAY "bikeway" ? Does it really need to be one way? Does BCC really need to waste scarce cycling funds on traffic controllers? Or is the current situation evidence that ... (i) BCC has been rather vindictive in implementing the ONE WAY controlled system and (ii) wants to "bury" the issue of allegedly substandard provision? If (ii) is the case, is BCC trying to distract from the real issue namely provision of facilities that do (or do not) comply with "standards" and "guidelines" in order to avoid public scrutiny and investigation as to how the problems (?) with the facility came about? To date it seems nobody has made public the measured clear minimum width ... although 2m has been mentioned. The problem we face is the fact that cyclists in Brisbane have been accepting substandard facilities (both paths and bike lanes) for so long ... and almost everywhere across the city ... so most people (appear or act as if they) think how good it all is. For example almost none of the path outside the former ABC Studios at Toowong complies. Most of the Sylvan Road "bike lanes" do not comply. Clearly for anyone cycling or walking, the inner part of the Bicentennial Bikeway (the sections approaching and under Victoria Bridge) were arguably never complying ... a cyclist died from injuries there as an outcome. We use them and yes, they are "better than nothing" ... and so we have become accepting, begrudgingly tolerant if you like, of very poor facilities. This is likely to continue because any new facilities done properly, will show up how bad the previous facilities are. In fact it might (if BCC chose to be vindictive) mean re-building or closing most of the existing network ... especially as numbers of users increase as intended. Of course, like the 2000 and 2005 targets, it is easy for BCC to ensure the targets never get achieved. One way is to ensure a constant supply of "barriers" (see below) to discourage new users ... and old. Therefore IF the current temporary bikeway is substandard, might the current facility be better used only for inbound cyclists (to avoid multiple crossings of Coro Drive) while outbound cyclists use the kerb side lane (or footpath if they so choose) on Coro Drive? At 2m, the existing facility may "work" with care by users ... is this the case? For legal purposes (ie only in the event of an incident between cyclists) and to reflect the design speed upon which the facility design is based, should we ask Council for a posted 15km/h speed limit? Or is it suitable ie "fit for purpose" at 20km/h? We know from guidelines but also from experience eg South Bank, that 10km/h is too slow. Should we suggest the controllers be removed and the money saved spent on something useful eg at any number of problem sites? The other "problem" illustrated by those now choosing not to use this corridor is the "induced" demand effect well known (by a number of different names) to those in the transport and traffic policy area. By putting in a "barrier" such as this, the numbers (in this case, of cyclists and no doubt joggers and walkers and certainly people with disabilities) will be reduced sometimes quite dramatically ... some change to other modes or to other routes, or simply stop doing the activity ... thus reducing the problem. This use of "barriers" also has the effect of making the new facility appear really good (and popular) when it is first opened ... by comparison with what was provided ... and will encourage an increase over previous use before the barrier was installed hence "induced" ... but the effect may be temporary, or permanent and often is cyclic until people work out their own new personal preferences. It works .. it exists ... induced demand is widely recognised ... and its why BCC suddenly needs so many more buses ... because by improving the bus service, many more people have been "induced" to use the system ... but the "barriers" remain viz the full buses, congestion on the busway/s, buses stuck in traffic congestion because there are no bus lanes, etc ... and it is also why the tunnels and bridges and new road projects all over the city will "induce" more car use. Indeed these road projects on completion can be expected to induce a shift to the car from those using public transport and some people cycling. Recently I took an international transport consultant for a tour of some of the projects. For example, its worth considering why the $700m (and, like the bike bridge at Toowong and almost all such projects, it will cost far more than that) is good value for the Centenary overpass ... when it will encourage so much more car traffic in peak hours. No doubt it will "necessitate" the BCC tunnel from Toowong to the City Bypass which given it already is congested, will presumably no longer be congested once the NSBT tunnel is in operation ... and yes, somewhere in all that, like the Gold Coast rail line and the billion dollar M1, is a rail line probably with insufficient trains. Like most new roads, these road projects (and the tunnels and bridges) will "induce" a lot more car use until it is sufficiently congested to again act as a "barrier" and presumably given current planning policies, this will again act as a trigger for another round of road "improvements" ...! Of course nobody does accurate counts that are made public (other than perhaps academics ... or critics/advocates) so the "induced" demand effect goes almost un--noticed ... esp so in the hype and euphoria when the new project is finally in operation ... an interesting example is the bridge across the freeway at Toowong which started life as a way to cross Milton Road. At the times I choose to travel, the HSL changes on Coro Drive will probably make almost no difference and maybe will slightly improve for motorists ... until I get to Toowong or to North Quay where any additional capacity on Coro Drive will suddenly add to the congestion we now have ... but if the car suits ...! And in peak hours, the majority of cyclists on the "new" bikepath along the river will be looking at the adjacent almost empty walking path along Coro Drive ... much as motorists (and politicians and the vast majority of traffic engineers and some cyclists) look at bus lanes ...! Some may even realise that the $100m for cycling (but it seems is for "shared footpaths") was actually being spent for the benefit of motorists and pedestrians esp if more people start cycling and walking and that then leads to conditions on Coro Drive that "induce" more car traffic .... I left the following emails because they both make sense in the context ... the problem created by Council is perhaps, not the cyclists? MY......................... At 03:59 PM 5/05/2009, Yani wrote: >I've seen a few cyclists do things I wouldn't do but they managed >them with style and showed skill. > >The point more being that cyclists make better drivers and >pedestrians when they are in that role. > >The group who are the most ignorant are the 'only' people. Only use >a car and never walk, only walk and never use a car and just as >likely 'only cycle' although that would be one tiny tiny demographic. > >Then there is group as in pack mentality. Likely a pack of cyclists >is as bad as any pack of anything human. > >I can say that as a pedestrian I've never had an issue ever with a >cyclist. And the reason??? I give them a bit of space. Nor do I have >issues with cyclists when I'm a car driver. If only the reverse was true. > >Yani > > >---------- >From: Mick Fanning [mailto:cameraperson@bigpond.com] >Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:28 PM >To: Yani >Cc: bikeqld >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody > >Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian >behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I >feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright >dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There >are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. > >Mick Fanning -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090506/7d0bc66f/attachment.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Tue May 5 18:56:57 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Tue May 5 18:57:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <20090505232403.UKLO12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <001401c9cddd$306ff580$0201010a@norm> All good stuff Michael. I'm exhausted now having read it, without even riding anywhere! Not sure how you can get it down in the time you do. Just a couple of points from you recent posts, I think the Goodwill bridge used to be 10km/h cycle speed limit and Southbank along the river 15. I think different (opposite)to what you have written. It may have changed or maybe I've misinterpreted your words. You are absolutely correct that 10 k is too slow for comfortable cycling. 15 in my mind is reasonable in situations that have several peds eg Southbank beside the river which I think was built for strolling, or other obstacles, but not of course for bike paths where it is way too slow even for me. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Wednesday, 6 May 2009 9:24 AM To: 'bikeqld' Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Hi all ... How is the Coro Drive ONE WAY "bikeway" ? Does it really need to be one way? Does BCC really need to waste scarce cycling funds on traffic controllers? Or is the current situation evidence that ... (i) BCC has been rather vindictive in implementing the ONE WAY controlled system and (ii) wants to "bury" the issue of allegedly substandard provision? If (ii) is the case, is BCC trying to distract from the real issue namely provision of facilities that do (or do not) comply with "standards" and "guidelines" in order to avoid public scrutiny and investigation as to how the problems (?) with the facility came about? To date it seems nobody has made public the measured clear minimum width ... although 2m has been mentioned. The problem we face is the fact that cyclists in Brisbane have been accepting substandard facilities (both paths and bike lanes) for so long ... and almost everywhere across the city ... so most people (appear or act as if they) think how good it all is. For example almost none of the path outside the former ABC Studios at Toowong complies. Most of the Sylvan Road "bike lanes" do not comply. Clearly for anyone cycling or walking, the inner part of the Bicentennial Bikeway (the sections approaching and under Victoria Bridge) were arguably never complying ... a cyclist died from injuries there as an outcome. We use them and yes, they are "better than nothing" ... and so we have become accepting, begrudgingly tolerant if you like, of very poor facilities. This is likely to continue because any new facilities done properly, will show up how bad the previous facilities are. In fact it might (if BCC chose to be vindictive) mean re-building or closing most of the existing network ... especially as numbers of users increase as intended. Of course, like the 2000 and 2005 targets, it is easy for BCC to ensure the targets never get achieved. One way is to ensure a constant supply of "barriers" (see below) to discourage new users ... and old. Therefore IF the current temporary bikeway is substandard, might the current facility be better used only for inbound cyclists (to avoid multiple crossings of Coro Drive) while outbound cyclists use the kerb side lane (or footpath if they so choose) on Coro Drive? At 2m, the existing facility may "work" with care by users ... is this the case? For legal purposes (ie only in the event of an incident between cyclists) and to reflect the design speed upon which the facility design is based, should we ask Council for a posted 15km/h speed limit? Or is it suitable ie "fit for purpose" at 20km/h? We know from guidelines but also from experience eg South Bank, that 10km/h is too slow. Should we suggest the controllers be removed and the money saved spent on something useful eg at any number of problem sites? The other "problem" illustrated by those now choosing not to use this corridor is the "induced" demand effect well known (by a number of different names) to those in the transport and traffic policy area. By putting in a "barrier" such as this, the numbers (in this case, of cyclists and no doubt joggers and walkers and certainly people with disabilities) will be reduced sometimes quite dramatically ... some change to other modes or to other routes, or simply stop doing the activity ... thus reducing the problem. This use of "barriers" also has the effect of making the new facility appear really good (and popular) when it is first opened ... by comparison with what was provided ... and will encourage an increase over previous use before the barrier was installed hence "induced" ... but the effect may be temporary, or permanent and often is cyclic until people work out their own new personal preferences. It works .. it exists ... induced demand is widely recognised ... and its why BCC suddenly needs so many more buses ... because by improving the bus service, many more people have been "induced" to use the system ... but the "barriers" remain viz the full buses, congestion on the busway/s, buses stuck in traffic congestion because there are no bus lanes, etc ... and it is also why the tunnels and bridges and new road projects all over the city will "induce" more car use. Indeed these road projects on completion can be expected to induce a shift to the car from those using public transport and some people cycling. Recently I took an international transport consultant for a tour of some of the projects. For example, its worth considering why the $700m (and, like the bike bridge at Toowong and almost all such projects, it will cost far more than that) is good value for the Centenary overpass ... when it will encourage so much more car traffic in peak hours. No doubt it will "necessitate" the BCC tunnel from Toowong to the City Bypass which given it already is congested, will presumably no longer be congested once the NSBT tunnel is in operation ... and yes, somewhere in all that, like the Gold Coast rail line and the billion dollar M1, is a rail line probably with insufficient trains. Like most new roads, these road projects (and the tunnels and bridges) will "induce" a lot more car use until it is sufficiently congested to again act as a "barrier" and presumably given current planning policies, this will again act as a trigger for another round of road "improvements" ...! Of course nobody does accurate counts that are made public (other than perhaps academics ... or critics/advocates) so the "induced" demand effect goes almost un--noticed ... esp so in the hype and euphoria when the new project is finally in operation ... an interesting example is the bridge across the freeway at Toowong which started life as a way to cross Milton Road. At the times I choose to travel, the HSL changes on Coro Drive will probably make almost no difference and maybe will slightly improve for motorists ... until I get to Toowong or to North Quay where any additional capacity on Coro Drive will suddenly add to the congestion we now have ... but if the car suits ...! And in peak hours, the majority of cyclists on the "new" bikepath along the river will be looking at the adjacent almost empty walking path along Coro Drive ... much as motorists (and politicians and the vast majority of traffic engineers and some cyclists) look at bus lanes ...! Some may even realise that the $100m for cycling (but it seems is for "shared footpaths") was actually being spent for the benefit of motorists and pedestrians esp if more people start cycling and walking and that then leads to conditions on Coro Drive that "induce" more car traffic .... I left the following emails because they both make sense in the context ... the problem created by Council is perhaps, not the cyclists? MY......................... At 03:59 PM 5/05/2009, Yani wrote: Ive seen a few cyclists do things I wouldnt do but they managed them with style and showed skill. The point more being that cyclists make better drivers and pedestrians when they are in that role. The group who are the most ignorant are the only people. Only use a car and never walk, only walk and never use a car and just as likely only cycle although that would be one tiny tiny demographic. Then there is group as in pack mentality. Likely a pack of cyclists is as bad as any pack of anything human. I can say that as a pedestrian Ive never had an issue ever with a cyclist. And the reason??? I give them a bit of space. Nor do I have issues with cyclists when Im a car driver. If only the reverse was true. Yani _____ From: Mick Fanning [ mailto:cameraperson@bigpond.com] Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:28 PM To: Yani Cc: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090506/bb310f9e/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed May 6 14:31:43 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed May 6 14:32:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <20090505232403.UKLO12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> <2448D63391AE46C8AB402FBBC7A03732@maud> <20090505232403.UKLO12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <704056.72977.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Michael, I rode through there on Tuesday (four times) and the traffic controllers seem to be letting traffic flow both ways. What annoy me is that there are not enough signs to let pedestrians know that they are not allowed on the temporary section. I think the traffic controllers is there to make sure that the pedestrians walk on the footpath above. Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Michael Yeates To: bikeqld Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:24:20 AM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Hi all ... How is the Coro Drive ONE WAY "bikeway" ? Does it really need to be one way? Does BCC really need to waste scarce cycling funds on traffic controllers? Or is the current situation evidence that ... (i) BCC has been rather vindictive in implementing the ONE WAY controlled system and (ii) wants to "bury" the issue of allegedly substandard provision? If (ii) is the case, is BCC trying to distract from the real issue namely provision of facilities that do (or do not) comply with "standards" and "guidelines" in order to avoid public scrutiny and investigation as to how the problems (?) with the facility came about? To date it seems nobody has made public the measured clear minimum width ... although 2m has been mentioned. The problem we face is the fact that cyclists in Brisbane have been accepting substandard facilities (both paths and bike lanes) for so long ... and almost everywhere across the city ... so most people (appear or act as if they) think how good it all is. For example almost none of the path outside the former ABC Studios at Toowong complies. Most of the Sylvan Road "bike lanes" do not comply. Clearly for anyone cycling or walking, the inner part of the Bicentennial Bikeway (the sections approaching and under Victoria Bridge) were arguably never complying ... a cyclist died from injuries there as an outcome. We use them and yes, they are "better than nothing" ... and so we have become accepting, begrudgingly tolerant if you like, of very poor facilities. This is likely to continue because any new facilities done properly, will show up how bad the previous facilities are. In fact it might (if BCC chose to be vindictive) mean re-building or closing most of the existing network ... especially as numbers of users increase as intended. Of course, like the 2000 and 2005 targets, it is easy for BCC to ensure the targets never get achieved. One way is to ensure a constant supply of "barriers" (see below) to discourage new users ... and old. Therefore IF the current temporary bikeway is substandard, might the current facility be better used only for inbound cyclists (to avoid multiple crossings of Coro Drive) while outbound cyclists use the kerb side lane (or footpath if they so choose) on Coro Drive? At 2m, the existing facility may "work" with care by users ... is this the case? For legal purposes (ie only in the event of an incident between cyclists) and to reflect the design speed upon which the facility design is based, should we ask Council for a posted 15km/h speed limit? Or is it suitable ie "fit for purpose" at 20km/h? We know from guidelines but also from experience eg South Bank, that 10km/h is too slow. Should we suggest the controllers be removed and the money saved spent on something useful eg at any number of problem sites? The other "problem" illustrated by those now choosing not to use this corridor is the "induced" demand effect well known (by a number of different names) to those in the transport and traffic policy area. By putting in a "barrier" such as this, the numbers (in this case, of cyclists and no doubt joggers and walkers and certainly people with disabilities) will be reduced sometimes quite dramatically ... some change to other modes or to other routes, or simply stop doing the activity ... thus reducing the problem. This use of "barriers" also has the effect of making the new facility appear really good (and popular) when it is first opened ... by comparison with what was provided ... and will encourage an increase over previous use before the barrier was installed hence "induced" ... but the effect may be temporary, or permanent and often is cyclic until people work out their own new personal preferences. It works .. it exists ... induced demand is widely recognised ... and its why BCC suddenly needs so many more buses ... because by improving the bus service, many more people have been "induced" to use the system ... but the "barriers" remain viz the full buses, congestion on the busway/s, buses stuck in traffic congestion because there are no bus lanes, etc ... and it is also why the tunnels and bridges and new road projects all over the city will "induce" more car use. Indeed these road projects on completion can be expected to induce a shift to the car from those using public transport and some people cycling. Recently I took an international transport consultant for a tour of some of the projects. For example, its worth considering why the $700m (and, like the bike bridge at Toowong and almost all such projects, it will cost far more than that) is good value for the Centenary overpass ... when it will encourage so much more car traffic in peak hours. No doubt it will "necessitate" the BCC tunnel from Toowong to the City Bypass which given it already is congested, will presumably no longer be congested once the NSBT tunnel is in operation ... and yes, somewhere in all that, like the Gold Coast rail line and the billion dollar M1, is a rail line probably with insufficient trains. Like most new roads, these road projects (and the tunnels and bridges) will "induce" a lot more car use until it is sufficiently congested to again act as a "barrier" and presumably given current planning policies, this will again act as a trigger for another round of road "improvements" ...! Of course nobody does accurate counts that are made public (other than perhaps academics ... or critics/advocates) so the "induced" demand effect goes almost un--noticed ... esp so in the hype and euphoria when the new project is finally in operation ... an interesting example is the bridge across the freeway at Toowong which started life as a way to cross Milton Road. At the times I choose to travel, the HSL changes on Coro Drive will probably make almost no difference and maybe will slightly improve for motorists ... until I get to Toowong or to North Quay where any additional capacity on Coro Drive will suddenly add to the congestion we now have ... but if the car suits ...! And in peak hours, the majority of cyclists on the "new" bikepath along the river will be looking at the adjacent almost empty walking path along Coro Drive ... much as motorists (and politicians and the vast majority of traffic engineers and some cyclists) look at bus lanes ...! Some may even realise that the $100m for cycling (but it seems is for "shared footpaths") was actually being spent for the benefit of motorists and pedestrians esp if more people start cycling and walking and that then leads to conditions on Coro Drive that "induce" more car traffic .... I left the following emails because they both make sense in the context ... the problem created by Council is perhaps, not the cyclists? MY......................... At 03:59 PM 5/05/2009, Yani wrote: I?ve seen a few cyclists do things I wouldn?t do but they managed them with style and showed skill. The point more being that cyclists make better drivers and pedestrians when they are in that role. The group who are the most ignorant are the ?only? people. Only use a car and never walk, only walk and never use a car and just as likely ?only cycle? although that would be one tiny tiny demographic. Then there is group as in pack mentality. Likely a pack of cyclists is as bad as any pack of anything human. I can say that as a pedestrian I?ve never had an issue ever with a cyclist. And the reason??? I give them a bit of space. Nor do I have issues with cyclists when I?m a car driver. If only the reverse was true. Yani ________________________________ From: Mick Fanning [mailto:cameraperson@bigpond.com] Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:28 PM To: Yani Cc: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody Sorry Yani but I must differ. I only occasionally see bad pedestrian behaviour there but see silly cyclists on that path every day. But I feel that it is mostly just boorish behaviour rather than downright dangerous. You do encounter the odd bloody-minded pedestrian. There are very few actual incidents when you consider how much traffic there is. Mick Fanning Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090506/0e6ebb8d/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed May 6 21:24:24 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed May 6 21:24:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody In-Reply-To: <704056.72977.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090503235918.VBMZ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <7C019CCB3A8D40A498E588D977AC29D5@maud> <2925FE1A-7E30-4385-969B-BE7C9AE0C7AC@bigpond.com> <2448D63391AE46C8AB402FBBC7A03732@maud> <20090505232403.UKLO12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <704056.72977.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090507022424.EZOQ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Anthony ... The first step here is to get the cycling back to two way ... and accepted or tolerated ... ie self-managed by cyclists ... then get better signage so it is very clear that peds are banned ... and that enforced as necessary ... then perhaps to get rid of the "big brother is concerned about cyclists safety attitude of BCC", it is up to the cyclists to sort themselves out and avoid collisions, etc? That done (if it doesn't take the 6 weeks ;-) ) the issue will be why BCC continues to build these substandard facilities and why QT and all those "experts" who profess (and indeed get paid by me and you) to promote and provide for cycling, are not doing their job ...! So if the attention of the controllers IS turning to keeping the peds on their path ie the footpaths along the side of Coro Drive, and this is working, then the issue can also return to why ANY of the $100m is being spent on this project as it is clearly for both peds and motorists ie is either part of the HUGE BCC road budget (ie a stage of the previous numerous widenings of Coro Drive) or from the minuscule BCC footpath budget ... as all this project will do is (hopefully) return the Bicentennial Bikeway to cyclists only ie a "bike path" . Any other feedback would be appreciated esp somebody (anybody?) with a tape who will measure the clear width ... please? MY...................... At 05:31 AM 7/05/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Hi Michael, > >I rode through there on Tuesday (four times) and the traffic >controllers seem to be letting traffic >flow both ways. What annoy me is that there are not enough signs to >let pedestrians know that >they are not allowed on the temporary section. I think the traffic >controllers is there to make >sure that the pedestrians walk on the footpath above. > >Anthony > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Michael Yeates >To: bikeqld >Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 9:24:20 AM >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Coro Drive - oh goody > >Hi all ... > >How is the Coro Drive ONE WAY "bikeway" ? > >Does it really need to be one way? > >Does BCC really need to waste scarce cycling funds on traffic controllers? > >Or is the current situation evidence that ... > >(i) BCC has been rather vindictive in implementing the ONE WAY >controlled system and > >(ii) wants to "bury" the issue of allegedly substandard provision? > >If (ii) is the case, is BCC trying to distract from the real issue >namely provision of facilities that do (or do not) comply with >"standards" and "guidelines" in order to avoid public scrutiny and >investigation as to how the problems (?) with the facility came about? > >To date it seems nobody has made public the measured clear minimum >width ... although 2m has been mentioned. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090507/0fab8776/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu May 7 20:00:22 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu May 7 20:00:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update Message-ID: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> BQ is asking for the notice below to be circulated as widely as possible (well, within Brisbane I guess). Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Bicentennial bikeway: UPDATE Friday 8 May 2009 Remember, there are two projects causing disruptions nearly beside each other. One has been going on for months (Hale Street Bridge) and another started late April: the 400m bikeway diversion around a section of the bikeway about to be upgraded BOTH offer cycling benefits: Hale Street will rebuild the bikeway to a better standard and give a bike link across the river, while the second project is an straight out upgrade of the existing bikeway from 3 to 5 metres. Great! 1. Hale Street problems This is a worksite with traffic control to manage the bikeway and machinery movements. The pressure is really on the cycling community to work on our cobbers to not have this section turned into a compulsory DISMOUNT and walk! Unfortunately some riders and some pedestrians have ignored traffic controllers instructions, or ridden too fast through the site which has led to a risk assessment of the site by contractors and a demand that, unless everybody complies better - all riders will have to dismount and walk! We disagree with this, but please don't let this happen! This would be a disaster for all. BQ can't control a selfish minority who disobey directions or civility, and we know at times it is very inconvenient, but we hope that people will chill out and encourage everyone to take it EASY through the site so that a dismount and walk situation does not result. So please tell your friends and work buddies to chill out and go SLOW through the Hale Street worksite. Recreational riders and even some commuters might be better either using the road or going via the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and Annerley Rd to South Bank - a good alternate bike route to the city from the outer west. 2. bicentennial bikeway widening project The good news is this project is only 6 weeks in duration and will result in a great new bikeway of 5 metres replacing the current narrow 3 metres. But over the next 6 weeks - apart from taking a different route (see above) riders will have to deal with the narrow 400-metre temporary boardwalk. The current diversion of pedestrians up onto the Coronation Drive footpath for this section is working pretty well, with cyclists only allowed along the bikeway's temporary boardwalk diversion. But be aware that it may have a stop/go situation at peak times, and temporary lighting is due to be installed soon. Again, we ask all cyclists to encourage others to show patience and understanding as we will ALL LOSE if riders ignore the directions given by police or traffic controllers. The bright side is that in six weeks this stage of the path will be reopened and vastly improved! That is great news. So relax all - and enjoy your cycling and remember that life's better on a bike (even through a worksite!) And please remember to say a kind word to the traffic controllers ... they are doing a thankless job, and getting plenty of flack from pedestrians and cyclists alike. So see if you can brighten up their day as well! From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu May 7 20:39:11 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu May 7 20:39:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] investment in cycling Message-ID: <20090508013906.CBJF10570.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... The following may be of interest ... in effect it is the investment needed (ie justified by) one extra cyclist travelling regularly three days a week (presumably but not necessarily instead of using a car ... Put another way, this means that the long term cost:benefit of spending each ?100,000 requires (ONLY) 11 additional regular cyclists ...! ALL other cyclists would be cost neutral or cost beneficial at no marginal cost ... that is until the capacity is reached or peds are allowed to use the "path" as on Coro Drive "bikeway"...! An extract of the summary indicates ... The study presents for the first time a Cycling Planning Model (CPM) that will help local planners to better assess the number of additional cyclists required to generate a return on investment. The model shows how a surprisingly small number of additional cyclists will pay for investment in new cycling infrastructure. The model suggests: An investment of ?10,000 requires one additional regular cyclist An investment of ?100,000 requires 11 additional regular cyclists The research defines regular cycling as three times a week and measures the impact across the lifetime of a project ? assumed in this study to be 30 years. http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/2009/03/new-economic-analysis-signals-a-more-effective-approach-to-cycling/ For those sufficiently interested, the home page for Cycling England is http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/ MY................................. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/0e83687c/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu May 7 23:00:49 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu May 7 23:04:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update In-Reply-To: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <243067.79086.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Ian. The question is how do we tell the few that consistently refuse to listen, sigh. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 8 May, 2009 11:00:22 AM Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update BQ is asking for the notice below to be circulated as widely as possible (well, within Brisbane I guess). Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Bicentennial bikeway: UPDATE Friday 8 May 2009 Remember, there are two projects causing disruptions nearly beside each other. One has been going on for months (Hale Street Bridge) and another started late April: the 400m bikeway diversion around a section of the bikeway about to be upgraded BOTH offer cycling benefits: Hale Street will rebuild the bikeway to a better standard and give a bike link across the river, while the second project is an straight out upgrade of the existing bikeway from 3 to 5 metres. Great! 1. Hale Street problems This is a worksite with traffic control to manage the bikeway and machinery movements. The pressure is really on the cycling community to work on our cobbers to not have this section turned into a compulsory DISMOUNT and walk! Unfortunately some riders and some pedestrians have ignored traffic controllers instructions, or ridden too fast through the site which has led to a risk assessment of the site by contractors and a demand that, unless everybody complies better - all riders will have to dismount and walk! We disagree with this, but please don't let this happen! This would be a disaster for all. BQ can't control a selfish minority who disobey directions or civility, and we know at times it is very inconvenient, but we hope that people will chill out and encourage everyone to take it EASY through the site so that a dismount and walk situation does not result. So please tell your friends and work buddies to chill out and go SLOW through the Hale Street worksite. Recreational riders and even some commuters might be better either using the road or going via the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and Annerley Rd to South Bank - a good alternate bike route to the city from the outer west. 2. bicentennial bikeway widening project The good news is this project is only 6 weeks in duration and will result in a great new bikeway of 5 metres replacing the current narrow 3 metres. But over the next 6 weeks - apart from taking a different route (see above) riders will have to deal with the narrow 400-metre temporary boardwalk. The current diversion of pedestrians up onto the Coronation Drive footpath for this section is working pretty well, with cyclists only allowed along the bikeway's temporary boardwalk diversion. But be aware that it may have a stop/go situation at peak times, and temporary lighting is due to be installed soon. Again, we ask all cyclists to encourage others to show patience and understanding as we will ALL LOSE if riders ignore the directions given by police or traffic controllers. The bright side is that in six weeks this stage of the path will be reopened and vastly improved! That is great news. So relax all - and enjoy your cycling and remember that life's better on a bike (even through a worksite!) And please remember to say a kind word to the traffic controllers ... they are doing a thankless job, and getting plenty of flack from pedestrians and cyclists alike. So see if you can brighten up their day as well! _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090507/618d1168/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 7 23:31:12 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 7 23:36:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update In-Reply-To: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <4A03B590.4000906@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/ee01259d/attachment-0001.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 7 23:38:24 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 7 23:43:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is ........ Message-ID: <4A03B740.10206@teegee.com.au> Brisbane's narrowest bike lane or bike way? Despite having a host of rules and design guidelines like the MUTCD, Austroads Part 14, BCC's own UMS drawings which spell out the minimum width of cycling facilities we still seem to end up with lanes and paths that are substantially narrower than these rules and guidelines permit or recommend. How do we justify that? I think the most narrow I have seen to date was about 300mm, can anyone better that? k From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu May 7 23:48:45 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu May 7 23:49:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update In-Reply-To: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0751A8F6AD@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Well, my first read of that was it was a really nice and wholesome and community-minded message. Then I thought how it only talks about what rogues cyclists are - and that's coming from BQ? It is completely silent on the issues of how the arrangements got to be so bogus in the first place, whether any of the treatment has been appropriate e.g. that cyclists should be the subject of penalties rather than a compliant detour put in, and what has been done about it by BQ or whomever else. You know, I REALLY hope the two promises are met ... Accept crap? ... here, eat this sandwich. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Friday, 8 May 2009 11:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update BQ is asking for the notice below to be circulated as widely as possible (well, within Brisbane I guess). Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Bicentennial bikeway: UPDATE Friday 8 May 2009 Remember, there are two projects causing disruptions nearly beside each other. One has been going on for months (Hale Street Bridge) and another started late April: the 400m bikeway diversion around a section of the bikeway about to be upgraded BOTH offer cycling benefits: Hale Street will rebuild the bikeway to a better standard and give a bike link across the river, while the second project is an straight out upgrade of the existing bikeway from 3 to 5 metres. Great! 1. Hale Street problems This is a worksite with traffic control to manage the bikeway and machinery movements. The pressure is really on the cycling community to work on our cobbers to not have this section turned into a compulsory DISMOUNT and walk! Unfortunately some riders and some pedestrians have ignored traffic controllers instructions, or ridden too fast through the site which has led to a risk assessment of the site by contractors and a demand that, unless everybody complies better - all riders will have to dismount and walk! We disagree with this, but please don't let this happen! This would be a disaster for all. BQ can't control a selfish minority who disobey directions or civility, and we know at times it is very inconvenient, but we hope that people will chill out and encourage everyone to take it EASY through the site so that a dismount and walk situation does not result. So please tell your friends and work buddies to chill out and go SLOW through the Hale Street worksite. Recreational riders and even some commuters might be better either using the road or going via the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and Annerley Rd to South Bank - a good alternate bike route to the city from the outer west. 2. bicentennial bikeway widening project The good news is this project is only 6 weeks in duration and will result in a great new bikeway of 5 metres replacing the current narrow 3 metres. But over the next 6 weeks - apart from taking a different route (see above) riders will have to deal with the narrow 400-metre temporary boardwalk. The current diversion of pedestrians up onto the Coronation Drive footpath for this section is working pretty well, with cyclists only allowed along the bikeway's temporary boardwalk diversion. But be aware that it may have a stop/go situation at peak times, and temporary lighting is due to be installed soon. Again, we ask all cyclists to encourage others to show patience and understanding as we will ALL LOSE if riders ignore the directions given by police or traffic controllers. The bright side is that in six weeks this stage of the path will be reopened and vastly improved! That is great news. So relax all - and enjoy your cycling and remember that life's better on a bike (even through a worksite!) And please remember to say a kind word to the traffic controllers ... they are doing a thankless job, and getting plenty of flack from pedestrians and cyclists alike. So see if you can brighten up their day as well! _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From entropic at iinet.net.au Thu May 7 23:54:18 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Thu May 7 23:54:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is ........ Message-ID: <36488.1241758458@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/fb7599db/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Fri May 8 00:13:45 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Fri May 8 00:14:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BQ Bicentennial bikeway update In-Reply-To: <4A03B590.4000906@teegee.com.au> References: <20090508105805.M1484@singha.lister.id.au> <4A03B590.4000906@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <3F63126683DA43B78FD3E2E512F42965@golder.gds> Those were my thoughts too Kim. It's oddly juvenile. BQ's intimacy vs advocacy balance is way out in my opinion. Community organisations like this always have to balance intimacy with the powers that be and advocacy for their members interests. Too noisy and you're ignored as trouble-makers; too quiet and you're ignored as pushovers. RACQ, for all their faults, manage that balance extremely well (with vastly greater resources of course). BQ's excuse has long been that with few cyclists to represent and even fewer members, they have no real choice but to pussy-foot. They'll soon have 10,000 members, so that hardly washes now. G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/25154a52/attachment.htm From indocc at ozemail.com.au Fri May 8 04:19:52 2009 From: indocc at ozemail.com.au (colin freestone) Date: Fri May 8 00:19:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycle Indonesia In-Reply-To: <20090507022424.EZOQ12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: Hi there Cycling Queenslanders. Join me on the second CYCLE SULAWESI (Indonesia) trip. I?m an Australian. I?ve had 40+ years association with Indonesia. I want to share my love, experience and knowledge of Indonesia, through cycling, with like minded people. Following on from the inaugurual January trip I?ve organized another one, for August this year. Full details at http://www.cycleindonesia.com.au/. Terima kasih. Colin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/6b15981c/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Fri May 8 17:54:04 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Fri May 8 00:54:52 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] investment in cycling In-Reply-To: <20090508013906.CBJF10570.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090508013906.CBJF10570.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <12362EE6C86A4393927D0E34445A6C20@maud> The costing fall down, as I see it, because the cycle ways are forever being broken by council not taking a hard line on what is allowed to transit them. At least ? of the paths are being broken by heavy machinery used in parks. The chances of getting a 30 year life is zero. You would want to hope that when they report on cycling costs they DON?T add in the cost of repairs caused by the stupidity of contractors. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:39 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Cc: bfa-oz@topica.com Subject: [bikeqld] investment in cycling Hi all ... The following may be of interest ... in effect it is the investment needed (ie justified by) one extra cyclist travelling regularly three days a week (presumably but not necessarily instead of using a car ... Put another way, this means that the long term cost:benefit of spending each ?100,000 requires (ONLY) 11 additional regular cyclists ...! ALL other cyclists would be cost neutral or cost beneficial at no marginal cost ... that is until the capacity is reached or peds are allowed to use the "path" as on Coro Drive "bikeway"...! An extract of the summary indicates ... The study presents for the first time a Cycling Planning Model (CPM) that will help local planners to better assess the number of additional cyclists required to generate a return on investment. The model shows how a surprisingly small number of additional cyclists will pay for investment in new cycling infrastructure. The model suggests: An investment of ?10,000 requires one additional regular cyclist An investment of ?100,000 requires 11 additional regular cyclists The research defines regular cycling as three times a week and measures the impact across the lifetime of a project ? assumed in this study to be 30 years. http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/2009/03/new-economic-analysis-signals-a -more-effective-approach-to-cycling/ For those sufficiently interested, the home page for Cycling England is http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/ MY................................. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/da0f597a/attachment-0001.htm From t.cheeseman at qut.edu.au Fri May 8 02:27:23 2009 From: t.cheeseman at qut.edu.au (Timothy Cheeseman) Date: Fri May 8 02:27:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Rex Hunt guilty Message-ID: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/08/2565042.htm Maybe Rex should buy a bike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090508/07091acc/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Tue May 12 07:47:21 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue May 12 20:41:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike helmet in Denmark Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0752060D48@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Tongue in cheek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY_O_2rkRzw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090512/7f69c58a/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Wed May 13 07:58:07 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Wed May 13 07:58:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Perth bicycle paths- 9000 riders a day on city cordon Message-ID: <480132.69941.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Our friends in Western Australia are now publishing autologged bicycle path usage data http://bta-bulletin.blogspot.com/2009/05/cycling-patterns-on-psps.html Has Brisbane managed to install counters/download counters/collate data or publish recent data? Lovely data! Very curvacious. The Tuesday maximum is fairly standard, e.g. in Melbourne where Bicycle Victoria reports VicRoads autorecorded bicycle path data (http://www.bv.com.au/change-the-world/30145/)(also has a blurb putting the data into some context). I am curious about the very low cycle counts for July 2008. Are Perth riders that sensitive to rain? The Causeway data show about a thousand riders a day - that bridge is very dangerous now so the sooner this data can be used to support the Sculpture Park pedestrian/bike bridge the better (but remember Claisebrook!)---- Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Wed May 13 08:36:43 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Wed May 13 08:36:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Perth bicycle paths- 9000 riders a day on city cordon Message-ID: <408322.58942.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Yes! There is data! Somewhat de-identified, aggregated and de-trended but it is there: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1273449728:pc=PC_9 Anyone have a reference to where this number comes from? Councillor PRENTICE: I?m still learning?I?ve got the bike. I?m just a little wobbly. I know that I?m probably?yes, training wheels would be good. However, Brisbane City Council will be hosting an exhibition at Bike Week and also providing journey planning sessions to help all cyclists find the shortest, safest route around the city. And I also note that we now have an incredible number of people cycling into the city. And at the last count, the number of cyclist trips on Council?s bicycle network was more than 9.6 million a year, amounting to around 200,000 journeys a week. And I know there?ll be some other Councillors in this place riding to work, as well as Councillor ABRAHAMS and Councillor [4277th (Ordinary) Meeting ? 17 March 2009] Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu May 14 09:28:23 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu May 14 09:28:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RNA Showgrounds missing link! Message-ID: <103969.94561.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Lend Lease has just got the guernsey to redevelop the RNA showgrounds .....includng "?For the first time in our history, the RNA will open up the site for use everyday by the community and improve connectivity with Fortitude Valley and Bowen Hills. Bicycle and pedestrian pathways will provide easy access through the RNA Showgrounds and onto the CBD." http://www.qbr.com.au/news/articleid/55940.aspx Will it connect with the ICB cycleway? Will the tunnel be used at last? Will there be second route to The Valley? Will it happen? Or will a Boral (famous for cutting the Prospect Canal offroad cycleway to build access to a development and replacing it with stop lights across a four lane highway in a cutting with descents to the crossing on both sides? http://www.canalreserve.org ) Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu May 14 09:41:18 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu May 14 09:41:48 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 9.6 million cycle trips a year in Brisbane (but no published data?) Message-ID: <944517.99472.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> See the speech by Cr Prentice at the bottom of page 41 of the BCC council meeting for 17 March http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/bccwr/_assets/main/lib534/council_minutes_17march2009.pdf Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu May 14 15:37:10 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu May 14 15:37:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RNA Showgrounds missing link! In-Reply-To: <103969.94561.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <103969.94561.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c9d4d3$c29a2640$47ce72c0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> A new velodrome (Chandler has had it)? Or night-time criterium track? Yeah yeah! Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: Friday, 15 May 2009 12:28 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RNA Showgrounds missing link! Lend Lease has just got the guernsey to redevelop the RNA showgrounds .....includng "?For the first time in our history, the RNA will open up the site for use everyday by the community and improve connectivity with Fortitude Valley and Bowen Hills. Bicycle and pedestrian pathways will provide easy access through the RNA Showgrounds and onto the CBD." http://www.qbr.com.au/news/articleid/55940.aspx Will it connect with the ICB cycleway? Will the tunnel be used at last? Will there be second route to The Valley? Will it happen? Or will a Boral (famous for cutting the Prospect Canal offroad cycleway to build access to a development and replacing it with stop lights across a four lane highway in a cutting with descents to the crossing on both sides? http://www.canalreserve.org ) Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu May 14 18:14:27 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu May 14 18:14:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 9.6 million cycle trips a year in Brisbane (but no published data?) In-Reply-To: <944517.99472.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <944517.99472.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248338.780.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Mich, Thanks for that here is the full text. I wondered how many trips that is compared with cars because it would be good to do a percentage comparison to see whether the council's spending is actually proportional to usage. I suspect we have a strong case of discrimination. Just look at Coro Drive! Anthony ======================================================================================== I?m still learning?I?ve got the bike. I?m just a little wobbly. I know that I?m probably?yes, training wheels would be good. However, Brisbane City Council will be hosting an exhibition at Bike Week and also providing journey planning sessions to help all cyclists find the shortest, safest route around the city. And I also note that we now have an incredible number of people cycling into the city. And at the last count, the number of cyclist trips on Council?s bicycle network was more than 9.6 million a year, amounting to around 200,000 journeys a week. And I know there?ll be some other Councillors in this place riding to work, as well as Councillor ABRAHAMS and Councillor [4277th (Ordinary) Meeting ? 17 March 2009] SUTTON. I know that Councillor BOURKE will be. And I know a couple of the other Councillors are doing their Active School Transport first day. Councillors interjecting. Councillor PRENTICE: Oh, Councillor ADAMS, great. Councillor OWEN-TAYLOR, that?s great. I look forward to seeing you all. Turning to the information report, we had an excellent presentation on that great new initiative of the Farmers? Markets in Reddacliff Place. And as we all know, they?re every Wednesday now, from 11 am to 6 pm, in Reddacliff Place, at the top of the mall. And these are the Farmers? Markets. And despite the very wet weather last Wednesday, we still had people queuing for those wonderful chocolate brownies and cheese kranskies, as well as genuine fresh food and fruit and vegetables. And Jan Power was saying just what a wonderful success it was. She said there?s a waiting list of stall holders, because of the great initiative by this Council, and indeed the Queen Street Mall?s Advisory Committee. And it was an outstanding day, despite the rain last Wednesday, which was the second time we?ve had this event. And I think everyone?s really enjoying this wonderful opportunity. We believe that it?s started off very successfully with some great publicity. And Jan Power asked me to personally congratulate Brisbane Marketing for their support and assistance with this great event. So I encourage all Councillors, if you haven?t been already, every Wednesday, 11 am to 6 pm at Reddacliff Place Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 15 May, 2009 12:41:18 AM Subject: [bikeqld] 9.6 million cycle trips a year in Brisbane (but no published data?) See the speech by Cr Prentice at the bottom of page 41 of the BCC council meeting for 17 March http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/bccwr/_assets/main/lib534/council_minutes_17march2009.pdf Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090514/a8518fca/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri May 15 02:39:46 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri May 15 02:40:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Bixi's hits the Street in Montreal Message-ID: <20090515074001.MASC1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> >>Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:27:50 +0200 >>Subject: [WorldCityBike] Bixi's hits the Street in Montreal >> >>Source: >>http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/montreal-inaugurates-continents-most-ambitious-bike-sharing-program/ >> >>Montreal Inaugurates Continent?s Most Ambitious Bike-Sharing ProgramBy >> >>- Ian Austen/The New York Times >> >>A curious onlooker inspects a Bixi bike in Montreal on Tuesday. The >>city spent roughly $13 million developing the new bike-sharing system. >>When G?rald Tremblay, the mayor of Montreal, inaugurated North >>America?s first large-scale bicycle-sharing system on Tuesday, an >>uncooperative microphone forced him to shout to the crowd in front of >>city hall. >> >>Fortunately, the computer-chip based, solar-powered, WiFi-enabled base >>station that?s the heart of the Bixi system worked flawlessly when Mr. >>Tremblay set off on a ceremonial first ride. >> >>As explained at the Web site of the city?s parking authority, which >>oversees the program, it works like this: >> >> >>?The user takes a bike from one of the stations, pays at an automated >>pay station, and drops the bike off at any pay station in the network. >>The bike becomes another mode of urban transport unto itself, a >>practical, economical, ecological and healthy alternative to energy- >>guzzling vehicles.? >> >> >>Bixi is nothing if not ambitious. The service is starting out with >>3,000 of the specially designed bicycles distributed among 300 closely- >>spaced stations in its downtown core. But while it was directly >>inspired by V?lib, the service that started in Lyon, France, before >>moving to Paris, Bixi differs in many respects. >> >>Chief among them was a decision by the city to run the system itself, >>rather than use an outside operator, and to fund it with fees from >>users rather than relying on advertising. Andr? Lavall?e, the >>municipal politician who championed the Bixi, said that the >>advertising opportunities are more limited in Montreal, while city >>ownership allowed greater coordination with the city?s bus and subway >>system. >> >>It was at Mr. Lavall?e?s suggestion that the development and operation >>of Bixi be turned over to the city?s parking authority. While that >>seems an unlikely choice, he reasoned that it already has the real >>estate and the infrastructure needed for a bicycle-sharing system. And >>while no politician mentioned it, others involved in developing Bixi >>said that the semi-autonomous parking authority, Stationnement de >>Montreal, is also less bureaucratic than other city departments. >> >>Michel Dallaire, the industrial designer whose firm developed both the >>bicycles and the base stations, chose solar power primarily for >>logistical, rather than environmental, reasons. Because the base >>stations do not need any electrical connections, they can be dropped >>anywhere without any preparatory work. >> >>The system was directly inspired by V?lib, the service that started in >>Lyon, France, before moving to Paris. But Bixi differs in many respects. >>That will allow the city to easily remove them each fall when Bixi >>goes into winter hibernation. And as demand patterns become more >>apparent, the city can easily adjust the size and location of base >>stations. >> >>European systems, Mr. Dallaire noted, usually rely on clamping the >>bicycles by their front forks. That can lead to wheel damage. In >>contrast, Bixi bicycles slot and lock into their stations through a >>triangular tab at the front. >> >>Users release them in one of two ways. An annual subscription for 78 >>Canadian dollars ? half price for transit-pass holders ? buys a chip- >>encoded plastic fob. Day users can pay 5 Canadian dollars (a little >>over $4) by credit card at the base station for a day pass. Like a >>rental car company, the base station puts a 250 Canadian dollar >>security hold (roughly $216) on day users? credit cards. >> >>The fees charged after that are intended to encourage rapid turnover. >>The first half hour is free. The second half hour is 1.50 Canadian >>dollars ($1.30). After two hours, the 30-minute rate soars to 6.00 >>Canadian dollars ($5.18). >> >>While the frames are aluminum (and they are sponsored by Rio Tinto >>Alcan, a major aluminum maker), they are mainly designed to minimize >>damage from vandals, to thwart parts thieves and to keep rolling with >>the minimum of maintenance rather than for lightness or speed. >> >>That being said, the bikes are quite well equipped and include fenders >>(complete with a skirt guard), a chain guard to keep pants separated >>from the chain, LED headlights and taillights (powered by a front hub >>dynamo), a three-speed hub gear, effective drum brakes, a sturdy >>kickstand and a bell. >> >>?We needed it to be physically robust and visually robust so people >>would have confidence,? said. Mr. Dallaire. >> >>Most of the drive train is stock Shimano Nexus equipment. Mr. Dallaire >>added a chain tensioner after learning that slack chains are a major >>cause of breakdowns in Paris. >> >>On a test ride, I found the bike to be stable and comfortable. The >>three gears, while widely spaced, included one low enough for climbing >>roads running up the extinct volcano which forms the island of Montreal. >> >>My only complaint was the relative smallness of the front carrier. But >>Mr. Dallaire said that anything larger would only encourage some >>riders to abuse it by carrying a passenger. >> >>Montreal spent 15 million Canadian dollars (about $13 million) to >>develop and start the system, although it is budgeted to ultimately >>become financially self-sufficient. But Montreal has received seven >>patents for Bixi and Mr. Lavall?e hopes to sell it to other North >>American cities. >> >>?We developed this product for Montreal,? he said. ?But we were very >>convinced that it?s good for any city.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090515/c2149868/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu May 21 06:36:52 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu May 21 06:37:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) Message-ID: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ian Lister To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CBD BUG" group. To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu May 21 06:47:33 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu May 21 06:47:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <7BA47044AAF542E3A787FE712FD4723A@maud> Not a bad score considering who they are polling; shows that people will say no to anything even if it is in their interests. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:37 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu May 21 16:07:21 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu May 21 16:07:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <7BA47044AAF542E3A787FE712FD4723A@maud> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <7BA47044AAF542E3A787FE712FD4723A@maud> Message-ID: <002f01c9da58$23532ac0$69f98040$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> "perceived" interest? -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2009 9:48 PM To: 'Ian Lister'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) Not a bad score considering who they are polling; shows that people will say no to anything even if it is in their interests. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:37 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Thu May 21 19:52:22 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Thu May 21 19:52:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- RESPONSE_SURVEY_981 yes www2.racq.com.au/ 1536 2794429696 30007474 3063898704 30005876 * From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 21 20:15:03 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 21 20:21:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <4A15FC97.2080504@teegee.com.au> Or perhaps they could have asked: As a taxpayer contributing to Queensland's revenue coffers, are you happy to be supporting bonuses paid to the fuel industry? OR Given that this excise subsidy is paid for by all taxpayers in Queensland and there necessarily has to be some 'losers' and some 'winners' (if it was totally neutral it would be pointless) do you consider yourself one of the 'winners' in this scheme? OR Do you know how much tax you pay to support this scheme and whether it is more or less than the benefit you receive? Ian Lister wrote: > I know we all love a good web poll... :) > > Ian > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Ian Lister > To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) > Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy > > > In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and > included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently > running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State > Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": > > http://www.racq.com.au/ > > Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 > votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. > > Ian > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "CBD BUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu May 21 21:09:10 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu May 21 21:09:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The next idiot who asked why don't I pay registration on my bike, I can tell them. "I will pay my registration if my taxes does go towards a cheaper petrol for you!" :-) Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 2009 9:36:52 PM Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ian Lister To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CBD BUG" group. To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090521/537f2381/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu May 21 21:15:00 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu May 21 21:15:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0FF41EC07EE243FDB2F81BE09321C4A5@maud> I got an idea. A Petrol Commissioner. A real lardarse that can't even walk without a stick so we can be sure they don't get involved in any greenie shite. "We require an X truckie with an economics degree (preferably a bare pass) who drives an SUV with >8 cylinders, Hummer at least, for the role of Petrol Commissioner. Your office will be that of the no longer required water commissioner. We believe this will provide you with chairs of an accommodating size. Your role will be to set limits (lower) on the amount of petrol any family can consume in a day. We are looking for a lardarse who is able to challenge our current practices and can develop and deliver innovative and effective strategies, maximizing media and public relations opportunities, to support our vision in positioning and promoting Brisbane as Australia's leading greenhouse gas producer. Anyone with Rupophobia should not apply for this position." Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:09 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) The next idiot who asked why don't I pay registration on my bike, I can tell them. "I will pay my registration if my taxes does go towards a cheaper petrol for you!" :-) Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 2009 9:36:52 PM Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ian Lister To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CBD BUG" group. To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090522/6cbd1d5a/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu May 21 21:17:39 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu May 21 21:18:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] All road users? In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <223894.21483.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ian, Did you see one of the links in the RACQ website said that RACQ lobby for all road users. All road users? What about us? :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 2009 9:36:52 PM Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) I know we all love a good web poll... :) Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ian Lister To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": http://www.racq.com.au/ Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. Ian --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CBD BUG" group. To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090521/65d2ae1a/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 21 21:21:35 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 21 21:28:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] All road users? In-Reply-To: <223894.21483.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <223894.21483.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A160C2F.1030406@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090522/fb94360e/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Fri May 22 22:52:48 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Fri May 22 22:52:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] The Bamboo Bike In-Reply-To: <0FF41EC07EE243FDB2F81BE09321C4A5@maud> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0FF41EC07EE243FDB2F81BE09321C4A5@maud> Message-ID: <81CC090426404DCCBF5858477A900961@maud> http://www.flaviodeslandes.com/index.html "My name is Flavio Deslandes. I am a Brazilian Industrial Designer based in Denmark. My area of expertise is design with bamboo, in particular the bamboo bicycle. My goal is to present a new breed of bicycles, stunning in design yet environmental in mind. The processes used to build the bikes are as sustainable as possible by introducing new technologies." A work of art really. Worth a look. Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090523/b95a09b4/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Fri May 22 23:46:47 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Fri May 22 23:49:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] The Bamboo Bike In-Reply-To: <81CC090426404DCCBF5858477A900961@maud> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0FF41EC07EE243FDB2F81BE09321C4A5@maud> <81CC090426404DCCBF5858477A900961@maud> Message-ID: <446D39B7-941B-42B3-BD3A-93CAE08C2EA7@bigpond.com> Here's another one http://www.bmeres.com/bambooframe.htm On 23/05/2009, at 1:52 PM, Yani wrote: > http://www.flaviodeslandes.com/index.html > > ?My name is Flavio Deslandes. I am a Brazilian Industrial Designer > based in Denmark. My area of expertise is design with bamboo, in > particular the bamboo bicycle. > > My goal is to present a new breed of bicycles, stunning in design > yet environmental in mind. The processes used to build the bikes are > as sustainable as possible by introducing new technologies.? > > > A work of art really. Worth a look. > > Yani > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090523/7668a3d8/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat May 23 15:22:31 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat May 23 15:22:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] The Bamboo Bike In-Reply-To: <446D39B7-941B-42B3-BD3A-93CAE08C2EA7@bigpond.com> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><331343.95923.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0FF41EC07EE243FDB2F81BE09321C4A5@maud> <81CC090426404DCCBF5858477A900961@maud> <446D39B7-941B-42B3-BD3A-93CAE08C2EA7@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <629922.420.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Michael, Would it use less energy to make when compared to a Carbon Fibre frame? Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Michael Fanning To: Yani Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Saturday, 23 May, 2009 2:46:47 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] The Bamboo Bike Here's another one http://www.bmeres.com/bambooframe.htm On 23/05/2009, at 1:52 PM, Yani wrote: http://www.flaviodeslandes.com/index.html ?My name is Flavio Deslandes. I am a Brazilian Industrial Designer based in Denmark . My area of expertise is design with bamboo, in particular the bamboo bicycle. My goal is to present a new breed of bicycles, stunning in design yet environmental in mind. The processes used to build the bikes are as sustainable as possible by introducing new technologies.? A work of art really. Worth a look. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090523/edbe30c7/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun May 24 16:51:59 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun May 24 16:52:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] London Mayor Nearly Killed While Cycling Message-ID: <20090524215206.VGZL1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi ... Not sure there is a useful message in the following ... except perhaps that drivers should ensure their doors are properly shut and owners that their equipment is safe ...! Its hardly an "accident" ... especially given it was a rather narrow street ...! In Brisbane it would be unlikely the CCTV footage would have been released ... but then it seems it would also be unlikely the Lord Mayor would be cycling to check out the roads. MY.................... Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:10:08 +0530 On Friday morning, while scouting possible locations for a bike path, London's mayor, Boris Johnson, narrowly avoided being killed when a passing truck crashed into a parked car and knocked it across the road he was cycling on, missing him by only a few feet. As a report in The Wharf, a newspaper that covers the London neighborhood of Canary Wharf where Mr. Johnson and his small pack of cyclists were riding at the time of the accident, noted: "The entire incident was captured on a private security camera monitoring the Dunbar Wharf development on Narrow Street." Here is the security camera footage, which shows the accident, and Mr. Johnson emerging from behind the truck about 30 seconds later, holding his helmet in one hand as he inspects the damage: Continues: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/london-mayor-nearly-killed-while-cycling/?hp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090525/36551f94/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun May 24 17:05:42 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun May 24 17:05:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] London Mayor Nearly Killed While Cycling In-Reply-To: <20090524215206.VGZL1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090524215206.VGZL1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <006501c9dcbb$c88cb730$59a62590$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Which reminds me - did anyone hear if charges were laid over that woman cyclist who was killed in Redlands a couple of years ago, when struck by the service door of a bus? (or what the outcome was?) Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Monday, 25 May 2009 7:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] London Mayor Nearly Killed While Cycling Hi ... Not sure there is a useful message in the following ... except perhaps that drivers should ensure their doors are properly shut and owners that their equipment is safe ...! Its hardly an "accident" ... especially given it was a rather narrow street ...! In Brisbane it would be unlikely the CCTV footage would have been released ... but then it seems it would also be unlikely the Lord Mayor would be cycling to check out the roads. MY.................... Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:10:08 +0530 On Friday morning, while scouting possible locations for a bike path, London's mayor, Boris Johnson, narrowly avoided being killed when a passing truck crashed into a parked car and knocked it across the road he was cycling on, missing him by only a few feet. As a report in The Wharf, a newspaper that covers the London neighborhood of Canary Wharf where Mr. Johnson and his small pack of cyclists were riding at the time of the accident, noted: "The entire incident was captured on a private security camera monitoring the Dunbar Wharf development on Narrow Street." Here is the security camera footage, which shows the accident, and Mr. Johnson emerging from behind the truck about 30 seconds later, holding his helmet in one hand as he inspects the damage: Continues: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/london-mayor-nearly-killed-while -cycling/?hp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090525/ed4494a9/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun May 24 17:06:41 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun May 24 17:06:54 2009 Subject: London Mayor not even knocked off his bike WAS RE: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] London Mayor Nearly Killed While Cycling In-Reply-To: <20090524215206.VGZL1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090524215206.VGZL1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <006a01c9dcbb$eeb4c830$cc1e5890$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Monday, 25 May 2009 7:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] London Mayor Nearly Killed While Cycling Hi ... Not sure there is a useful message in the following ... except perhaps that drivers should ensure their doors are properly shut and owners that their equipment is safe ...! Its hardly an "accident" ... especially given it was a rather narrow street ...! In Brisbane it would be unlikely the CCTV footage would have been released ... but then it seems it would also be unlikely the Lord Mayor would be cycling to check out the roads. MY.................... Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 11:10:08 +0530 On Friday morning, while scouting possible locations for a bike path, London's mayor, Boris Johnson, narrowly avoided being killed when a passing truck crashed into a parked car and knocked it across the road he was cycling on, missing him by only a few feet. As a report in The Wharf, a newspaper that covers the London neighborhood of Canary Wharf where Mr. Johnson and his small pack of cyclists were riding at the time of the accident, noted: "The entire incident was captured on a private security camera monitoring the Dunbar Wharf development on Narrow Street." Here is the security camera footage, which shows the accident, and Mr. Johnson emerging from behind the truck about 30 seconds later, holding his helmet in one hand as he inspects the damage: Continues: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/london-mayor-nearly-killed-while -cycling/?hp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090525/a14ce7e3/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon May 25 02:45:24 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon May 25 05:29:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Australian Innovation Festival closing event - Lord Mayor, Campbell Newman Message-ID: <20090525074530.BHGQ19926.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Mmmmmmmmmmmmm ...!! MY............. >Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:46:16 +1000 >Subject: Australian Innovation Festival closing event - Lord Mayor, >Campbell Newman >From: The Brisbane Institute > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > > >THE ECONOMIC CRISIS - > >IS IT TIME TO PLAY IT SAFE ON THE ENVIRONMENT? > >LORD MAYOR, CAMPBELL NEWMAN > >EVENING SEMINAR 2 JUNE 2009 > >6.15PM CUSTOMS HOUSE > >[] > >[] > >[] > >[] > The Economic Crisis: is it time to play it safe on the environment? >[] > >[] > >[] > >- picture - > > >Australia is gripped by a global economic downturn and thousands of >jobs have been lost worldwide. Meanwhile, the world's environment >is also in crisis. > > >As the major economies of the world struggle to get back on their >feet, Australians are still wondering if they have seen the worst of >it. At the same time, climate change looms as a fundamental >imperative that needs to be addressed with a significant and urgent >change to the way we do business and to the way we consume resources. > > >Over the past two weeks, the CitySmart Innovation Festival has been >exploring the opportunities for sustainable technologies to bring >about the next wave of economic growth while addressing the pressing >needs of the environment. > > >Come along to the official closing event for the CitySmart >Innovation Festival 09 and hear the Lord Mayor speak about how well >Brisbane is placed to tackle the challenging issues of the present >at this closing event for the Festival. He will be presenting his >strong views on how Brisbane fits into the big picture. > >DATE: 2 JUNE 2009 >PLACE: THE LONG ROOM, CUSTOMS HOUSE, 399 QUEEN STREET, BRISBANE >TIME: 6.15PM START (REGISTRATIONS FROM 5.30PM) >COST: $25; $15 CONCESSIONS. FREE TO SUBSCRIBERS AND SPONSORS OF THE >BRISBANE INSTITUTE >BOOKINGS: ON-LINE AT: www.brisinst.org.au OR >Telephone 3220 2198 to register >[] > >[] > Sponsors >[] > >[] > >[] > >http://brisinst.org.au/images/global/sponsor-qlduni.jpg > >http://brisinst.org.au/images/global/sponsor-qldgov.jpg > >http://brisinst.org.au/images/global/sponsor-brisbane.jpg > >[] > >[] > >[] > To unsubscribe from this newsletter > click here >[] > >[] > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release Date: >05/24/09 07:09:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090525/e27e1493/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon May 25 18:09:49 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon May 25 18:10:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? Message-ID: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Is the temporary Bicentennial Bikeway bikepath to Park Road still only operating one way for cyclists? I ask because it would appear that BCC "designed" the facility quite deliberately ... as you (should?) do when you "design" something to be constructed. However, it was originally "designed" and intended for two way use by cyclists AND by pedestrians. So why once the pedestrians were no longer able to use it, was it suddenly turned into one way for cyclists? One answer appears to be the hoary old excuse "cyclists travelling too fast ie too dangerously". Too fast? Too dangerous? For whom? So if all this is deliberate policy, there is one good outcome. It will mean that cyclists can travel as fast as they wish on the CYCLISTS ONLY sections ... ie once it turns from the "shared footpath" it has been allowed (indeed was designed) to become to a CYCLISTS ONLY bikepath ...! But perhaps not? It appears there have been a sufficient number of "complaints" and/or reports to police to justify BCC introducing the one way for cyclists. Mind you none of the complaints are available and if details are sought, they sound pretty sketchy. So it may be that Council is designing the "new" path width such that it will still be substandard for the speeds at which some cyclists wish to travel even on a CYCLISTS ONLY path. So put another way, since it seems difficult to put an enforceable speed limit on bikepaths, what sort of facility is needed so the fastest cyclists can use bikepaths but be considered to be doing so safely by police, Council, and the wider community? I guess I am asking why all the initial fuss about the temporary structure ...? Does it appear or is it the case that a substantial number of cyclists no longer use it? If so where do they/you go ? MY............................ From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon May 25 19:21:01 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon May 25 19:21:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <194909.56638.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Michael, As of this morning (7am), it was still one way. I am actually trying to figure out what happens if a controller on one misjudges and let cyclists enter his end when there are still cyclist coming through the other end? Also, this morning there was at least one pedestrian who still wanted to use the temporary structure only to be told by the controller. There are no signs telling pedestrian to use the upper footpath. I have also tried the alternative path via Southbank and UQ Lake but now that I lived in St Lucia, I found it faster going on Coro Drive. Riding from Southbank to Annerley is OK but I feel Coro Drive a little less dangerous. Others might disagree. One more thing, currently, a lot of pedestrians who uses the path outside the old ABC studio regularly disobey the bike only sign. I wondered how the BCC will reinforce the bike-only path. In fact, even on Western Freeway bikeway you still get a lot pedestrians (may I called them idiots?) who regularly ignore the fact that these bikeways are BIKE ONLY. Is it funny that the BCC and other authorities are so keen to crack down on cyclists but not pedestrians doing the "WRONG" thing. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Michael Yeates To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009 9:09:49 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? Is the temporary Bicentennial Bikeway bikepath to Park Road still only operating one way for cyclists? I ask because it would appear that BCC "designed" the facility quite deliberately ... as you (should?) do when you "design" something to be constructed. However, it was originally "designed" and intended for two way use by cyclists AND by pedestrians. So why once the pedestrians were no longer able to use it, was it suddenly turned into one way for cyclists? One answer appears to be the hoary old excuse "cyclists travelling too fast ie too dangerously". Too fast? Too dangerous? For whom? So if all this is deliberate policy, there is one good outcome. It will mean that cyclists can travel as fast as they wish on the CYCLISTS ONLY sections ... ie once it turns from the "shared footpath" it has been allowed (indeed was designed) to become to a CYCLISTS ONLY bikepath ...! But perhaps not? It appears there have been a sufficient number of "complaints" and/or reports to police to justify BCC introducing the one way for cyclists. Mind you none of the complaints are available and if details are sought, they sound pretty sketchy. So it may be that Council is designing the "new" path width such that it will still be substandard for the speeds at which some cyclists wish to travel even on a CYCLISTS ONLY path. So put another way, since it seems difficult to put an enforceable speed limit on bikepaths, what sort of facility is needed so the fastest cyclists can use bikepaths but be considered to be doing so safely by police, Council, and the wider community? I guess I am asking why all the initial fuss about the temporary structure ...? Does it appear or is it the case that a substantial number of cyclists no longer use it? If so where do they/you go ? MY............................ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090525/bc0ec881/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon May 25 20:05:58 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon May 25 20:12:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <194909.56638.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <194909.56638.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07523A04B8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> You even get cyclists and pedestrians using the wrong side of the Green Bridge, even though there is a perfectly good and well-signed option nearby. It?s facultative compliance with rules (?I?ll comply when I think I should) ? an entrenched cultural Brisbane trait ? it?s not peds or cyclists or motorists, but the whole bloody population ? just look at motorists and red lights for a clear example that it?s not just ?us?. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 10:21 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? Hi Michael, As of this morning (7am), it was still one way. I am actually trying to figure out what happens if a controller on one misjudges and let cyclists enter his end when there are still cyclist coming through the other end? Also, this morning there was at least one pedestrian who still wanted to use the temporary structure only to be told by the controller. There are no signs telling pedestrian to use the upper footpath. I have also tried the alternative path via Southbank and UQ Lake but now that I lived in St Lucia, I found it faster going on Coro Drive. Riding from Southbank to Annerley is OK but I feel Coro Drive a little less dangerous. Others might disagree. One more thing, currently, a lot of pedestrians who uses the path outside the old ABC studio regularly disobey the bike only sign. I wondered how the BCC will reinforce the bike-only path. In fact, even on Western Freeway bikeway you still get a lot pedestrians (may I called them idiots?) who regularly ignore the fact that these bikeways are BIKE ONLY. Is it funny that the BCC and other authorities are so keen to crack down on cyclists but not pedestrians doing the "WRONG" thing. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Michael Yeates To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009 9:09:49 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? Is the temporary Bicentennial Bikeway bikepath to Park Road still only operating one way for cyclists? I ask because it would appear that BCC "designed" the facility quite deliberately ... as you (should?) do when you "design" something to be constructed. However, it was originally "designed" and intended for two way use by cyclists AND by pedestrians. So why once the pedestrians were no longer able to use it, was it suddenly turned into one way for cyclists? One answer appears to be the hoary old excuse "cyclists travelling too fast ie too dangerously". Too fast? Too dangerous? For whom? So if all this is deliberate policy, there is one good outcome. It will mean that cyclists can travel as fast as they wish on the CYCLISTS ONLY sections ... ie once it turns from the "shared footpath" it has been allowed (indeed was designed) to become to a CYCLISTS ONLY bikepath ...! But perhaps not? It appears there have been a sufficient number of "complaints" and/or reports to police to justify BCC introducing the one way for cyclists. Mind you none of the complaints are available and if details are sought, they sound pretty sketchy. So it may be that Council is designing the "new" path width such that it will still be substandard for the speeds at which some cyclists wish to travel even on a CYCLISTS ONLY path. So put another way, since it seems difficult to put an enforceable speed limit on bikepaths, what sort of facility is needed so the fastest cyclists can use bikepaths but be considered to be doing so safely by police, Council, and the wider community? I guess I am asking why all the initial fuss about the temporary structure ...? Does it appear or is it the case that a substantial number of cyclists no longer use it? If so where do they/you go ? MY............................ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ________________________________ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090526/75a4e5b6/attachment-0001.htm From unixbigot at pobox.com Tue May 26 03:41:03 2009 From: unixbigot at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Tue May 26 03:41:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <50FD5296-EEA9-4C13-9172-81B57B78B538@pobox.com> On 26/05/2009, at 9:09 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: > Is the temporary Bicentennial Bikeway bikepath to Park Road still > only operating one way for cyclists? > > I ask because it would appear that BCC "designed" the facility quite > deliberately ... as you (should?) do when you "design" something to > be constructed. > I have a suspicion they made the temporary bike-only section one-way just to punish cyclists for making a fuss about the shitty detour in the first place. --chris From djc at djc.id.au Tue May 26 03:55:21 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan Callaghan) Date: Tue May 26 03:55:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <50FD5296-EEA9-4C13-9172-81B57B78B538@pobox.com> References: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <50FD5296-EEA9-4C13-9172-81B57B78B538@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4A1BAE79.2060706@djc.id.au> Christopher Biggs wrote: > I have a suspicion they made the temporary bike-only section one-way > just to punish cyclists for making a fuss about the shitty detour in the > first place. It really seems that way. I try and avoid the temporary path section when I can, but Coro Dr is the direct route between work and home for me so I end up going along there fairly often. Even with the stop-and-go one-way regime, everyone seems to take the temporary path at a sedate speed, in a single file, so I don't think having two-way for cyclists would be unsafe. (I can imagine it would be a bit harrowing however if peds were going along there too ..) I was surprised to discover last weekend that it's not just being enforced in peak hour either -- mid-afternoon on Saturday, I was about to ride straight onto the temporary section when a traffic controller dude jumped out at me from the bushes where he had been chilling out (fair enough too, since there was almost nobody around) and yelled out for me to stop. I had to wait for a few minutes while two cyclists and a rollerblader(?) came along in the opposite direction, before I was allowed onto the temporary section. The whole thing seems very wasteful .. -- Dan Callaghan From cameraperson at bigpond.com Tue May 26 15:59:12 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Tue May 26 15:59:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Dr update Message-ID: This morning at the usual lenghty delay, I bumped into an old friend I hadn't seen for almost twenty years. It was a long wait so we had a long chat. So there you go. It ain't all bad. Mick Fanning From trchits at yahoo.com.au Tue May 26 18:59:06 2009 From: trchits at yahoo.com.au (Toby) Date: Tue May 26 18:59:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] All road users? In-Reply-To: <4A160C2F.1030406@teegee.com.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <223894.21483.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A160C2F.1030406@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <670421.66633.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> ...RACQ don't class cyclist as road users - we are off-the-road-shared-path users to them, we don't pay rego after all! Toby ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 12:21:35 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] All road users? Don't you get their Rode Ahead magazine? :) k Anthony Lee wrote: Ian, Did you see one of the links in the RACQ website said that RACQ lobby for all road users. All road users? What about us? :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister T Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090526/9313ce54/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue May 26 19:24:09 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue May 26 19:24:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07523A04B8@QUTEXMBX03.qut. edu.au> References: <20090525230953.ITD1556.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <194909.56638.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07523A04B8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <20090527002409.LSDQ20732.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Point taken Pete ... However, others would argue that urban design requires legibility such that what appears to meet particular needs and/or "reasonable" expectations, does indeed do so... ;-) The plethora of signs (and various physical barriers eg fences) especially those added later, is more often an indication of bad urban design ... relying then on signs and barriers which signs surprisingly often are ...! At a more theoretical level, claiming, gaining and/or providing exclusivity relates to both symbolic and actual political power and to exclusion politics ... in much the same way that facilities are usually provided by "experts" but despite that, either don't work or have significant failings for intended use and/or users. Minorities don't really matter ... but can be further marginalised by providing poor, inadequate or substandard facilities they then either don't use ... or use incorrectly ie not as intended or instructed ... hence the signs also serve to remind us who really is in control ... and that we should be "good" and comply. Put another way granting exclusivity is another form of symbolic power ... empowering one or more groups which may well then act more uncritically or supportively (or be expected to) in relation to their benefactors, while further marginalising or disempowering others not included ... ie excluded. One of the issues that emerged on the Goodwill Bridge was how to make provision for the inevitability of people on the bridge wanting to (i) stop part way and/or (ii) have a look from the other side of the bridge eg at a boat passing underneath. That's what people do ...! Variation is another esp regular users who enjoy the experience of the environment/setting. It makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons that people walking or cycling might choose to vary which side of the Green Bridge they decided to use ... including how the approaches are designed and what one might reasonably expect approaching such a structure ... irrespective of signs which attempt to overcome what appear to be the obvious route options to take. An analysis of the "Green Bridge" (and for comparative study, the "Goodwill Bridge") exploring these and related issues and the relative utility for the various users and uses, would be a useful exercise in urban design ... but probably not at UD001 level ...! The discussion re the detour along the Coro Drive corridor for (i) peds and in particular, people with any kind of reduced physical ability and (ii) cyclists is illustrative ...! MY......................... At 11:05 AM 26/05/2009, Peter Whittle wrote: >Content-Language: en-US >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > >boundary="_000_51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07523A04B8QUTEXMBX03qut_" > >You even get cyclists and pedestrians using the >wrong side of the Green Bridge, even though >there is a perfectly good and well-signed option >nearby. It???s facultative compliance with rules >(???I???ll comply when I think I should) ? an >entrenched culltural Brisbane trait ? it???s not >peds or cyclists or motorists, but the whole >bloody population ? just look at motorists and >red lights for a clear example that it???s not just ???us???. > >Pete > >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee >Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 10:21 AM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? > >Hi Michael, > >As of this morning (7am), it was still one way. >I am actually trying to figure out what happens >if a controller on one misjudges >and let cyclists enter his end when there are >still cyclist coming through the other end? >Also, this morning there was at least >one pedestrian who still wanted to use the >temporary structure only to be told by the controller. There are no signs >telling pedestrian to use the upper footpath. > >I have also tried the alternative path via >Southbank and UQ Lake but now that I lived in St >Lucia, I found it faster going on Coro Drive. Riding from >Southbank to Annerley is OK but I feel Coro >Drive a little less dangerous. Others might disagree. > >One more thing, currently, a lot of pedestrians >who uses the path outside the old ABC studio regularly disobey the >bike only sign. I wondered how the BCC will >reinforce the bike-only path. In fact, even on Western Freeway bikeway >you still get a lot pedestrians (may I called >them idiots?) who regularly ignore the fact that these bikeways are BIKE ONLY. >Is it funny that the BCC and other authorities >are so keen to crack down on cyclists but not pedestrians doing the "WRONG" >thing. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Michael Yeates >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009 9:09:49 AM >Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? > >Is the temporary Bicentennial Bikeway bikepath >to Park Road still only operating one way for cyclists? > >I ask because it would appear that BCC >"designed" the facility quite deliberately ... >as you (should?) do when you "design" something to be constructed. > >However, it was originally "designed" and >intended for two way use by cyclists AND by pedestrians. > >So why once the pedestrians were no longer able >to use it, was it suddenly turned into one way for cyclists? > >One answer appears to be the hoary old excuse >"cyclists travelling too fast ie too >dangerously". Too fast? Too dangerous? For whom? > >So if all this is deliberate policy, there is >one good outcome. It will mean that cyclists can >travel as fast as they wish on the CYCLISTS ONLY >sections ... ie once it turns from the "shared >footpath" it has been allowed (indeed was >designed) to become to a CYCLISTS ONLY bikepath ...! > >But perhaps not? > >It appears there have been a sufficient number >of "complaints" and/or reports to police to >justify BCC introducing the one way for >cyclists. Mind you none of the complaints are >available and if details are sought, they sound pretty sketchy. > >So it may be that Council is designing the "new" >path width such that it will still be >substandard for the speeds at which some >cyclists wish to travel even on a CYCLISTS ONLY path. > >So put another way, since it seems difficult to >put an enforceable speed limit on bikepaths, >what sort of facility is needed so the fastest >cyclists can use bikepaths but be considered to >be doing so safely by police, Council, and the wider community? > >I guess I am asking why all the initial fuss >about the temporary structure ...? > >Does it appear or is it the case that a >substantial number of cyclists no longer use it? > >If so where do they/you go ? > >MY............................ > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your >choice. >Enter >now.. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: >270.12.40/2135 - Release Date: 05/26/09 08:53:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090527/2f16cad3/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue May 26 20:00:13 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue May 26 20:00:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] All road users? In-Reply-To: <670421.66633.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <223894.21483.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A160C2F.1030406@teegee.com.au> <670421.66633.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <143474.636.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If I have to pay rego then I would like to get back the bit of my tax which pay the 8c a litre petrol subsidy for all those who drive. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Toby To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 27 May, 2009 9:59:06 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] All road users? ...RACQ don't class cyclist as road users - we are off-the-road-shared-path users to them, we don't pay rego after all! Toby ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 12:21:35 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] All road users? Don't you get their Rode Ahead magazine? :) k Anthony Lee wrote: Ian, Did you see one of the links in the RACQ website said that RACQ lobby for all road users. All road users? What about us? :-( Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister T ________________________________ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.. Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090526/38312ac9/attachment-0001.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Tue May 26 20:09:32 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Tue May 26 20:10:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? In-Reply-To: <4A1BAE79.2060706@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <002901c9de67$d2bed7d0$0301010a@norm> I think the "wasteful" bit in your email Dan is somehow related to Jobs jobs jobs. At Woombye we still have the rail pedestrian level crossing ushers I referred to several weeks ago. Must be 6 in total now. They camp there all day and have a chat to people passing by if the ppb look willing to have a chat and I suppose if they do something wrong (sometimes). This morning I rode straight past them over the tracks despite the fact that previously they told me I would have to dismount to cross. I stopped for a chat on the way back and he told me a maximum of 10 people use the crossing each day. I could not ride back because there were about 15 other ?QR employees there also most blocking the way so I walked across. They seem to be putting in ?automatic gates across a new level crossing nearby. Someone said if the rail lights are green the gates will be shut and peds and cyclists would be stopped. One of the ushers stood in the middle of the track and said he would stop the train for me if it came when I was on the track. I think he was making a joke. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Dan Callaghan Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 6:55 PM To: BikeQld list Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive bikepath update? Christopher Biggs wrote: > I have a suspicion they made the temporary bike-only section one-way > just to punish cyclists for making a fuss about the shitty detour in > the first place. It really seems that way. I try and avoid the temporary path section when I can, but Coro Dr is the direct route between work and home for me so I end up going along there fairly often. Even with the stop-and-go one-way regime, everyone seems to take the temporary path at a sedate speed, in a single file, so I don't think having two-way for cyclists would be unsafe. (I can imagine it would be a bit harrowing however if peds were going along there too ..) I was surprised to discover last weekend that it's not just being enforced in peak hour either -- mid-afternoon on Saturday, I was about to ride straight onto the temporary section when a traffic controller dude jumped out at me from the bushes where he had been chilling out (fair enough too, since there was almost nobody around) and yelled out for me to stop. I had to wait for a few minutes while two cyclists and a rollerblader(?) came along in the opposite direction, before I was allowed onto the temporary section. The whole thing seems very wasteful .. -- Dan Callaghan _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed May 27 19:09:30 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed May 27 19:09:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> Looks like the RACQ has stepped this up a level from a web poll to a campaign with petition: http://www.racq.com.au/promotions/fuel_tax_subsidy_petition They do a good job of misrepresenting the removal of the subsidy as an "extra fuel tax", and dismissing the Pincus report's findings that the subsidy isn't being passed on to consumers anyway. Time for some letter-writing (or perhaps even a counter-petition), for those interested? Cheers, Ian On Thu, 21 May 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > I know we all love a good web poll... :) > > Ian > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Ian Lister > To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) > Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy > > > In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and > included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently > running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State > Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": > > http://www.racq.com.au/ > > Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 > votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. > > Ian > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CBD BUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed May 27 20:22:44 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed May 27 20:25:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: It's not a poll in that you cannot register support for scrapping the subsidy. You can however email them at fueltax@racq.com.au Richard -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 10:10 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) Looks like the RACQ has stepped this up a level from a web poll to a campaign with petition: http://www.racq.com.au/promotions/fuel_tax_subsidy_petition They do a good job of misrepresenting the removal of the subsidy as an "extra fuel tax", and dismissing the Pincus report's findings that the subsidy isn't being passed on to consumers anyway. Time for some letter-writing (or perhaps even a counter-petition), for those interested? Cheers, Ian On Thu, 21 May 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > I know we all love a good web poll... :) > > Ian > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Ian Lister > To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) > Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy > > > In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and > included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently > running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the State > Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": > > http://www.racq.com.au/ > > Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with 508 > votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. > > Ian > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CBD BUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed May 27 20:26:10 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed May 27 20:26:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 28 May 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > It's not a poll in that you cannot register support for scrapping the > subsidy. You can however email them at fueltax@racq.com.au It was a poll last week, and 20% of the 1258 respondents registered support for scrapping the subsidy: http://www.racq.com.au/about_us/previous_polls Presumably based on those results, it's now a petition. Ian From busrail at fastmail.fm Wed May 27 21:46:30 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Wed May 27 21:47:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <001101c9df3e$8580d8b0$0301010a@norm> Also RACQ does seem to have given the exact wording of the petition at least not before apparently having to vote for it. Maybe Ronan Lee would be interested in setting up a counter petition? I don't have his current email address. Maybe the Cc addresses will find him. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 10:10 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) Looks like the RACQ has stepped this up a level from a web poll to a campaign with petition: http://www.racq.com.au/promotions/fuel_tax_subsidy_petition They do a good job of misrepresenting the removal of the subsidy as an "extra fuel tax", and dismissing the Pincus report's findings that the subsidy isn't being passed on to consumers anyway. Time for some letter-writing (or perhaps even a counter-petition), for those interested? Cheers, Ian On Thu, 21 May 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > I know we all love a good web poll... :) > > Ian > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Ian Lister > To: cbdbug@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:33:58 +1000 (EST) > Subject: [cbdbug] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy > > > In relation to one of the topics discussed at the last meeting (and > included in our state election policy document), the RACQ is currently > running a poll on its web site asking users "Would you support the > State Government scrapping the 8.35 cents per litre fuel subsidy?": > > http://www.racq.com.au/ > > Not too surprising that 78% of the web site's visitors to date (with > 508 votes counted) are in favour of retaining the subsidy. > > Ian > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "CBD BUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to cbdbug@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cbdbug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cbdbug?hl=en-GB > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed May 27 22:47:26 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed May 27 22:48:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> I've just written to RACQ as a gold member, saying the poll and the petition misrepresent the issues and are not in the best interests of many members: - those who do not drive a lot will pay more in their tax than they get back - taxing and returning the funds is an inefficient way to achieve a policy outcome, with bureaucratic overheads and misdirecting of the tax money - many motorists and RACQ motorists think we should be encouraged to drive less and that paying the full cost for limited resources is desirable. Any RACQ members amongst you could usefully add your objections and ask RACQ to provide the full arguments on both sides of the tax. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 11:26 AM To: Richard Hockey Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) On Thu, 28 May 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > It's not a poll in that you cannot register support for scrapping the > subsidy. You can however email them at fueltax@racq.com.au It was a poll last week, and 20% of the 1258 respondents registered support for scrapping the subsidy: http://www.racq.com.au/about_us/previous_polls Presumably based on those results, it's now a petition. Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Wed May 27 23:13:25 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Wed May 27 23:13:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> That miss-states things a bit Peter. For constitutional reasons the 8c/L is a Commonwealth tax collected on behalf of state governments, and remitted directly to them. Queensland, in it's wisdom (and for largely historical reasons), chooses to rebate the tax via petrol retailers (previously wholesalers), who appear to pocket a slab of it before passing on the rest. So the 8c isn't really a subsidy, rather a nationally collected tax messily forgone. So those who don't drive much neither gain nor lose. Don't get me wrong, I voted to get rid of it ... around 30 times IIRC. (Early and often, I say. I wonder if the filtered IP multiples?) G. > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:47 PM > To: Ian Lister; Richard Hockey > Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) > > I've just written to RACQ as a gold member, saying the poll > and the petition misrepresent the issues and are not in the > best interests of many members: > > - those who do not drive a lot will pay more in their tax > than they get back > - taxing and returning the funds is an inefficient way to > achieve a policy outcome, with bureaucratic overheads and > misdirecting of the tax money > - many motorists and RACQ motorists think we should be > encouraged to drive less and that paying the full cost for > limited resources is desirable. > > Any RACQ members amongst you could usefully add your > objections and ask RACQ to provide the full arguments on both > sides of the tax. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 11:26 AM > To: Richard Hockey > Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) > > On Thu, 28 May 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > > It's not a poll in that you cannot register support for > scrapping the > > subsidy. You can however email them at fueltax@racq.com.au > > It was a poll last week, and 20% of the 1258 respondents registered > support for scrapping the subsidy: > > http://www.racq.com.au/about_us/previous_polls > > Presumably based on those results, it's now a petition. > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu May 28 00:07:41 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu May 28 00:08:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au> <20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> Message-ID: <20090528050802.XPYC19926.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> It probably needs a bit more exploration (explanation?) than that ... Who is it collected from ? MOST IMPORTANTLY, why ie for what purpose was it and is it collected? [ In Queensland to reduce the cost of fuel? (sounds a bit like a subsidy?) In NSW was it part of the road improvement funding? ] What are the costs of handling it ie the admin (and enforcement?) costs? As a "tax" the question arises why collect it then hand it back if it could be put to "better" use? Better use might include improved public transport or even improved roads and more facilities for cyclists (so all road users benefit not just motorists). If it was used (as in the previous sentence) then all road users would benefit whether they drive a lot or a bit or not at all. It is pretty much a Queensland thing (closely related to the "low tax" state claims for which we may now be about to pay dearly) that we can't avoid it being collected but want it returned to make conditions on the roads worse ... rather than spent to make conditions on the road better. And there is more to it than that ... like how much of the 8c does the state government keep and if it does not keep any, then how much does it cost the state out of each 8c to hand it back AND enforce we get the whole 8c back? MY...................... At 02:13 PM 28/05/2009, Glen Fergus wrote: >That miss-states things a bit Peter. For constitutional >reasons the 8c/L is a Commonwealth tax collected on >behalf of state governments, and remitted directly to >them. Queensland, in it's wisdom (and for largely >historical reasons), chooses to rebate the tax via >petrol retailers (previously wholesalers), who appear >to pocket a slab of it before passing on the rest. >So the 8c isn't really a subsidy, rather a nationally >collected tax messily forgone. So those who don't >drive much neither gain nor lose. > >Don't get me wrong, I voted to get rid of it ... around >30 times IIRC. (Early and often, I say. I wonder if >the filtered IP multiples?) > >G. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:47 PM > > To: Ian Lister; Richard Hockey > > Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) > > > > I've just written to RACQ as a gold member, saying the poll > > and the petition misrepresent the issues and are not in the > > best interests of many members: > > > > - those who do not drive a lot will pay more in their tax > > than they get back > > - taxing and returning the funds is an inefficient way to > > achieve a policy outcome, with bureaucratic overheads and > > misdirecting of the tax money > > - many motorists and RACQ motorists think we should be > > encouraged to drive less and that paying the full cost for > > limited resources is desirable. > > > > Any RACQ members amongst you could usefully add your > > objections and ask RACQ to provide the full arguments on both > > sides of the tax. > > > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 11:26 AM > > To: Richard Hockey > > Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) > > > > On Thu, 28 May 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > > > It's not a poll in that you cannot register support for > > scrapping the > > > subsidy. You can however email them at fueltax@racq.com.au > > > > It was a poll last week, and 20% of the 1258 respondents registered > > support for scrapping the subsidy: > > > > http://www.racq.com.au/about_us/previous_polls > > > > Presumably based on those results, it's now a petition. > > > > Ian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.43/2138 - Release Date: >05/27/09 18:21:00 From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Thu May 28 01:51:34 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Thu May 28 01:52:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3B@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au><51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3B@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <8769DAE7494247778457D27940B9E23C@golder.gds> Sorry, not clear. "Tax" isn't strictly correct. It's actually an "excise". That is, it is levied not per dollar but per unit of product (eg as for excise on beer, wine & spirits). The Feds collect the 8c per litre from the refiner (or importer). They then give that to the state, who in Queensland's case gives it straight back to the retailer. So theoretically it's zero sum. How much you do or don't use of the stuff makes no difference, and no actual subsidy is involved. (Shh, don't tell anyone...) This absurdity arose because the High Court deemed state petrol excises to be unconstitutional, and the (?Howard) government had to do a quick fix or the states already levying them (ie most, but not Qld) would have been caught seriously short. Of course, you can argue that it would be more efficient for the state to pocket the 8c and either charge less somewhere else (eg lower rego), or spend more somewhere deserving (eg on cycling infrastructure!). But that is a policy argument, not one about removing some bogus "subsidy". G. > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Whittle [mailto:peter.whittle@qut.edu.au] > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 2:25 PM > To: Glen Fergus > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) > > Thanks Greg - but I'm not sure how it mis-states it. > Presumably I pay the tax in proportion to my income (or other > tax streams) and if the tax is removed, Qld can put it into > other activities that I may benefit from, or even reduce my > tax. As a low-km driver, I get less of it back than a > profligate motorist. It is a subsidy, because it is paid > per-litre, even though indirectly or partially. > > We're on the same side - hence the offline squabble ;) but if > I don't understand - I'd like to! > > Pete From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 28 03:48:25 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 28 03:55:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> Message-ID: <4A1E4FD9.40004@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090528/4feb8d60/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu May 28 20:44:30 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu May 28 20:44:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] From NZ: Cyclist skills training: Message-ID: http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/walking-and-cycling/cy clist-skills-training/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090529/8146cc44/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 28 21:47:07 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 28 21:54:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist death/injury near Gateway Message-ID: <4A1F4CAB.7050707@teegee.com.au> A friend told me on Wednesday that he had heard on the radio about a cyclist getting killed that day out by the Gateway bridge, he seemed to think it was on Fison Ave. I did not see any mention of this in the papers and was wondering what the circumstances might have been. Was it reported elsewhere? I was hoping he was getting confused with the earlier one on Nudgee Rd and that this was not yet another one. k From kim at teegee.com.au Thu May 28 21:59:28 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu May 28 22:06:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RACQ poll on fuel subsidy (fwd) In-Reply-To: <8769DAE7494247778457D27940B9E23C@golder.gds> References: <20090521213510.W1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528100003.X1377@singha.lister.id.au><20090528112448.O1377@singha.lister.id.au><51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <8654874415F04475838FA6817B3205E4@golder.gds> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE075311FA3B@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <8769DAE7494247778457D27940B9E23C@golder.gds> Message-ID: <4A1F4F90.6030404@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090529/75da5396/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Fri May 29 01:36:18 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Fri May 29 01:43:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Shooting on the CBD bike track..... Message-ID: <4A1F8262.9040607@teegee.com.au> I took a pedal on the bike path behind the botanic gardens in the city this afternoon and noticed about 8 bicycle police girls and boys and one motorcycle one gathered around. I wondered what was going on, and then I noticed that they were making some sort of presumably bicycle squad video and the motorcycle guy looked like he was having fun zipping up the grass bank from the river. I must add that they all looked very glamorous, no signs of any bad-helmet-hair-days or sweaty arm pits from chasing those fun luvin' criminals. It seems a long way from Roma St but I guess it is still within their patrol zone :) and I figure that Friday afternoon is probably a quiet time for bikeway crimes anyway. Hey it could be some sort of recruitment video too, looks like a pretty good job. So watch out for the new blockbuster crime video 'For Whom the Bike Bells Don't Toll' k