From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Mar 1 14:58:49 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Mar 1 14:58:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike v Bus from Indooroopilly to CBD as a comic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090301205834.GGDI5528.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Bike v Bus from Indooroopilly to CBD as a comic Great timing for bike week or ride to work day/week ...! McMillen will no doubt be getting one of those community gongs from the Lord Mayor next year ...! Of course it may be that Brisbane City Council really does NOT want more people catching buses so having buses as efficient as cycling over all those hills in all this heat ensures a steady increase in car use to justify the money that "must" be spent on more roads and tunnels and bridges ... but could have been spent on improving bus and bike modes "instead". Not much changes does it ... despite the odd political announcement ...! MY....................... long a resident of Indooroopilly ...! This is great http://www.recombinantrecords.net/docs/2009-01-Bicycle-versus-Bus.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090302/fd7695ec/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Thu Mar 5 02:49:46 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Thu Mar 5 02:50:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Local Roads & Engineers Message-ID: This is what we have always known: SMH, today: A lonely tree cries out for a drink in a city ruled by uncivil engineers * Elizabeth Farrelly * March 5, 2009 Evidence that engineers are vastly over-represented among the ranks of international terrorists will come as no surprise to architects, who are accustomed to picking up what few pieces are left after engineers have done their worst. Now, however, it seems there may be a yet more sinister engineering plot against the civilised world. Somewhere near the start of Glebe Point Road there is a tree, perhaps a poplar. It is in many ways a microcosm; it could be any street tree in any city in Australia. But this particular street makes an especially poignant example, since the council has just finished a long, slow refurb of same, at considerable expense and no small disruption. And engineers? What has the tree to do with them? Well, this. Post-modernism may have come and almost gone but the road engineer still rules where matters traffic are concerned. The people who brought us cloverleaf interchanges and 10-lane flyovers have not gone away. They may be retiring but they have not retired. Far from it. In contemporary street design, everything that matters - which is to say the trafficable space, the carriageway - is designed by engineers. And everything that doesn't matter - which is to say the public, pedestrian space - is designed by, well, designers. Pansies. The engineers' bit, the carriageway, is determined by all sorts of self-important, clearly set out and quantified standards, Australian Standards no less, that govern structure, hardness, dimension, grade, camber and porosity, to name a few. The public bit, on the other hand, is largely subject to wishy washy discretionary forces; aesthetics, politics, whim and fashion. And there's the rub. For the tree, which stands at an odd, slightly wistful angle and whose leaves are tired-looking even at this harvest festival moment in the calendar, has a problem. February is often our wettest month but for the tree it has been a long time between drinks. Around its base is about half a square metre of that porous faux dogfood with which they apron trees these days, reducing root-compression while admitting rain. But the area of the dogfood is only around a tenth that of the root-ball, so that not much falls there and most of what does, runs off into the gutter instead of soaking in. Said gutter, directly adjacent this small tree patch, is a smart new square-jawed pre-cast concrete job that proudly declares its intention and capacity to conduct stormwater to the bay. Hence the poplar's wistfulness. Its roots may twist within centimetres of this rushing, gurgling stream, happy as a newborn, but access has it none. It must spend every shower and every rainstorm being tantalised, teased, then deprived. The result is a tree in torture. It fails to thrive, drops its leaves, looks miserable. More significantly, the shade decrement means that all those hot black surfaces - asphalt on the carriageway, black terrazzo pavers on the footpaths, - bake beneath unmediated solar radiation. In cases like Sydney Uni, Cleveland Street and much of Chippendale, where shady, spreading, deciduous exotics have been assiduously replaced by politically correct, low-water, shade-stingy natives, you don't even have to torture the trees to get this heat-island effect. So the local microclimate thus gets hotter, and hotter, and hotter - some 6-10 degrees hotter, estimates sustainability coach Michael Mobbs. This drives shoppers into their cars and air-conditioned malls and spins the planet further down its climate change vortex. So here's the question. Is it possible for local government engineers to design a leaky gutter? Or for designers to plant trees below road level? Demonstrably yes to the second. Green Square, for example, where the median strips are designed as reeded stormwater swales. It can be done, yes, but seldom is. Take the dying palms along Moore Park Road; the median strip is raised to ankle height, doubling as a traffic barrier, so the trees are cactus. But engineers and leaky drains? Is that even conceivable? Everything natural leaks, just like everything edible rots. But tell an engineer that a good drain is a leaky drain and he'll burst a blood vessel. Engineers, at least of the local government variety, are dinosaurs in modernist bog, where only the quantifiable exists and problems must be shorn, oversimplified, and solved in isolation. This is not that kind of problem. Every year nearly 2000 megalitres of stormwater washes our street filth (the non-human variety) into Blackwattle Bay, already one of the most toxic patches of sea bottom. The City Council, understandably concerned, runs a Blackwattle Bay Stormwater Abatement program. It gets special state funding to do really useful things like give away 22,000 consciousness-raising postcards and install fish-design stormwater grates to remind would-be butt-chuckers of their marine obligations. They even run street-cleaning programs especially to cleanse the runoff. But to reduce the runoff itself? A leaky drain along every street and park would amount to a civilising jihad; feeding trees, cooling streets, greening parks, reducing climate change, softening the urban experience and keeping the muck on land, where it belongs. Way too simple. From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Mar 5 03:09:50 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Mar 5 03:10:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Local Roads & Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If only it was just roads they apply this too. Has anyone noticed the proliferation of chainmesh fencing in front of cliffs in Brisbane parks. The safety Nazis and the engineers are working to together to unbeautify our parks. Any landscape architect would tell you the problem could be solved in 2 years by planting climbing figs against the cliffs. That is assuming the issue is falling rocks. If the issue is people climbing the cliffs then a 4' fence is not going to solve the problem. There are draftsmen engineered solutions and task specific architect design approaches. The key being a multi disciplined approach. Yani From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Mar 5 03:32:44 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Mar 5 03:32:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Solid gold on cycling is a transportation mode. Message-ID: <20090305093242.HTRZ5528.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> For those interested ... maybe including engineers (see SMH article "A lonely tree cries out for a drink in a city ruled by uncivil engineers" by Elizabeth Farrelly ... March 5, 2009). MY......................... >Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:34:40 +0100 > >If you think that cycling has an important role as daily transport >in and around our cities, let me suggest that you have a look at >this fine publication on "cycling in the Netherlands", published by >the Ministry of Transport which you can pick up freely at >http://www.fietsberaad.nl/library/repository/bestanden/CyclingintheNetherlands2009.pdf > > >Solid gold. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090305/1121aada/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Mar 5 04:29:52 2009 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Mar 5 04:30:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Local Roads & Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53AA5539-18B8-4005-95AE-82D8D61CA671@creative-engineering.com.au> Righto, well I'm an engineer but not a civil engineer, and I'll agree what they describe engineering gone mad. But - well I'll go out on a limb here - that the powerstation at tennyson, designed for engineering purpose, was much more aesthetic than what Mirvac is building now. I suppose Mirvac thinks it was designed by an architect?!!! The tennis centre is the most boring structure ever conceived, they must have had left over bits and beams from the Gabba and Suncorp stadium sitting around for 10 or so years that they had to find a use for. The apartments, while I give them credit for painting white instead of black.. I mean really, if they tried to make them ugly well at least the ugliness would be a point of interest. The bike track there is very wide... but despite it's capacious width isn't much more useful because of it. No-one realised that on a bike you have to exit the roundabout for the bikeway by riding the wrong way into other roundabout entrances, and you cannot cross the 'green strip' beside the road to the path without carrying your bike. If you'd like to be reversed over by a ute afterwards, that is. I think the only things they did well was to connect king arthur tce to Ortive st with a road and also they have also used the crushed concrete and brick lumps from the old powerstation as landscaping, which is very heartwarming indeed. Ben On 05/03/2009, at 6:49 PM, John Nightingale wrote: > This is what we have always known: > SMH, today: > > > A lonely tree cries out for a drink in a city ruled by uncivil > engineers > > * Elizabeth Farrelly > * March 5, 2009 > > Evidence that engineers are vastly over-represented among the ranks of > international terrorists will come as no surprise to architects, who > are > accustomed to picking up what few pieces are left after engineers > have done > their worst. Now, however, it seems there may be a yet more sinister > engineering plot against the civilised world. From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 5 08:11:30 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Mar 5 08:11:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong Bridge to open Saturday Message-ID: <504722.1453.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Apparently the Toowong bicycle bridge is to open on Saturday (thanks to Roadgrime whoever she may be); Quote: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3864 I am glad to inform you that the overpass is scheduled to be open this weekend (7 March), weather permitting. Yours sincerely, Toowong Roundabout Overpass Project Team BOM.gov.au reports Thursday and Friday weather fine so should be finished, Saturday 'mostly fine' so an opening should be on. The opening of the Normandy tunnel was pretty lame from a cyclist attendence point of view so this one may well be as well (admission - I won't be there as work requires me elsewhere :( No comment on Bicycle Queensland website (would you expect it?) or Queensland Transport or Main Roads websites. I do not know what the 'caretaker' protocols are for opening a facility like this during an election campaign. Maybe prohibited? Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 5 08:24:56 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Mar 5 08:25:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 25% reduction in car trips to schools????? Really? Message-ID: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I must be mathematically challenged. Michael, can you make sense out of Cr.Prentice's post which says that reducing 130 car trips to schools equates to a 25% drop in vehicle use? http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/article-view.html?articleId=6581 Council program removes 130 cars Written on the 10 February, 2009 Brisbane City Council?s Active School Travel program has resulted in a dramatic reduction in car trips and greenhouse gases, according to the latest results. The equivalent of about 130 cars a year were removed from the road (RACQ average kilometre estimates) or two million vehicle kilometres, and 550 tonnes of CO2 cut from the atmosphere. Public and Active Transport Chairman Councillor Jane Prentice said the achievements from the 2008 program, released today, were record results for the six-year program. ?Car trips were reduced by almost 25 per cent across the 13 participating schools during the course of the year, compared with before the program started,? she said. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Mar 5 09:29:53 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Mar 5 09:30:11 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 25% reduction in car trips to schools????? Really? In-Reply-To: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <377B689D08084A1DB19F88309D641E41@maud> Two million vehicle kilometres Let me do some maths... 2,000,000 / 4kms trips it they were even that on average 500000 trips say 2 a day 250000 2 way trips Let's guess 180 (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080910205621AAfqUQs) 1389 trips per day / 16 schools 87 kids in each school that have started not using their mother (even on wet days) At least it is possible which is a lot better than council stats normally are in my experience. HOWEVER I doubt the kids that live 4kms from school are the ones not being pick up more likely it's the 1km group Which would be a claim of 347 per school. There a lies, damn lies and council statistics. The usual factor is a multiplier of 10 Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: March 6, 2009 12:25 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] 25% reduction in car trips to schools????? Really? I must be mathematically challenged. Michael, can you make sense out of Cr.Prentice's post which says that reducing 130 car trips to schools equates to a 25% drop in vehicle use? http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/article-view.html?articleId=6581 Council program removes 130 cars Written on the 10 February, 2009 Brisbane City Council's Active School Travel program has resulted in a dramatic reduction in car trips and greenhouse gases, according to the latest results. The equivalent of about 130 cars a year were removed from the road (RACQ average kilometre estimates) or two million vehicle kilometres, and 550 tonnes of CO2 cut from the atmosphere. Public and Active Transport Chairman Councillor Jane Prentice said the achievements from the 2008 program, released today, were record results for the six-year program. "Car trips were reduced by almost 25 per cent across the 13 participating schools during the course of the year, compared with before the program started," she said. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 5 15:14:59 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 5 15:15:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 25% reduction in car trips to schools????? Really? In-Reply-To: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090306070744.N15294@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, mich rolling wrote: > I must be mathematically challenged. Michael, can you make sense out of > Cr.Prentice's post which says that reducing 130 car trips to schools > equates to a 25% drop in vehicle use? I think the key is that it's not "130 car trips to schools" but "the equivalent of about 130 cars a year were removed from the road". For marketing types, "cars removed from the road" is a standard unit of measure of CO2-e emissions, like football fields are a standard unit of measure of area. So not only are those theoretical 130 cars not dropping their kids to school in the morning, they're also not driving to work, the shops, away for the weekend, across a few states each year to reduce their FBT liability, or whatever else people do with their cars. Ian From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Mar 5 18:17:18 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Mar 5 18:17:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 25% reduction in car trips to schools????? Really? In-Reply-To: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <580687.2114.qm@web44801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090306001728.FETT5528.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Mitch and all, Most of the info has been well explained and/or provided by others. To get a slant on the "spin", it is worth asking if anyone could measure the environmental or traffic impact benefits of 130 less cars in use across the whole of Brisbane. Gee ... that's roughly 5 less cars in each of the Council's Wards ...! Wow ... what a mighty outcome ...! So rather than getting side-tracked by the "spin" ie the highly dubious assumptions that result in 130 cars etc etc, one far more important point worth considering is WHEN these AT participation figures were taken ... and then, knowing how long the EFFECT of the programme continues. As with any behavioural project (ie eg be it education, enforcement or encouragement), in almost all cases, a regular "top up" is essential. This is why for example speed enforcement is a mix of fixed and mobile/random locations, times of day, days of the week, and most importantly, variable frequency. Anecdotal and observational outcomes of a couple of schools I know nearby suggest that once the generated enthusiasm wears off and realities set in, numbers participating fall off and in these examples, quite dramatically. Also most successful longer term changes require an above average commitment from one or more "leaders". These usually emerge at the initial stage (may even be the reason why the project location was selected) but then get tired indeed exhausted, eg by others not assisting, or criticising, etc etc etc. It is one thing to do it, another altogether to keep others doing it over time ... especially with little or no support from in this case Council ... its the well known "burn out" effect. Another important issue is the course content of the AT projects ... I have yet to hear of or see a copy of the curriculum and course content, aims, teaching strategies, etc. Do they exist? Is the complete document available to the interested and (in our case at least partially) informed public/community? It IS important to know what exactly is being taught ... given there is a narrow gap between education, misinformation, manipulation and indoctrination depending of course, on perspectives adopted (happy to discuss this further elsewhere). It seems clear too that since the "BikeEd" programme was "banned" in Queensland (state schools) because it finished with a "reward" of a trip on local streets and roads (ie in the "real" cycling environment), most of the promotion has failed to take account of the group support effect (akin to hyped enthusiasm or perhaps even euphoria) that is inevitable in a group. However when left to participate on ones own, the reality sets in ... like the lack of necessary connectivity and indeed lack of endorsement of cycling by BCC more generally "on the road" ... given it will be IMPOSSIBLE to EVER create a cycling network that relies on off-road facilities of the type (again) being promoted and provided by BCC . If you have not seen it already, there is a BCC map showing where the $100m is to be spent ... but most importantly, the map shows yet again how disconnected are the "bikeways" provided or proposed ... and in some sectors of Brisbane, their complete absence eg the Oxley Road corridor south to Logan etc. So as others have implied if not suggested, the Lord Mayor's statement is essentially a concoction of positive "spin" given that it isn't likely much of the negative reality would be promoted. A published annual survey of actual walking and cycling to school by ALL schools that have had AT programmes would be rather more useful ... and it could be verified by observation and/or attendees at those schools ... hence far more likely to be credible info than "spin" And related to the promotion of off-road cycling facilities rather than cycling "on the road", the opening as distinct from "official" opening of the bridge over the Western Freeway is perhaps just another example of the problem ... bearing in mind that what was requested at one stage quite early, perhaps even originally, was a means to cross Milton Road at the end of Sylvan Road ... to provide walking and cycling access to/from Toowong State School. Interesting then that Toowong is one of the current list of schools on the Council's AT list ... but I wonder if getting across Milton Road will be celebrated by the final "reward" ride/walk for the Toowong State School participants? Also its worth noting that quite a lot of projects are being "opened" before they are operationally completed or "officially" opened ... one example is the shared path beside the St Lucia Golf Course. Surely this isn't for a variety of convenient "political" reasons? MY.................. At 12:24 AM 6/03/2009, mich rolling wrote: >I must be mathematically challenged. Michael, can you make sense out of > Cr.Prentice's post which says that reducing 130 car trips to schools >equates to a 25% drop in vehicle use? > > >http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/article-view.html?articleId=6581 >Council program removes 130 cars >Written on the 10 February, 2009 > >Brisbane City Council???s Active School Travel program has resulted in a > dramatic reduction in car trips and greenhouse gases, according to the > latest results. > >The equivalent of about 130 cars a year were removed from the road (RACQ >average kilometre estimates) or two million >vehicle kilometres, and 550 tonnes of CO2 cut from the atmosphere. > >Public and Active Transport Chairman Councillor Jane Prentice said the > achievements from the 2008 program, released today, were record results >for the six-year program. > >???Car trips were reduced by almost 25 per cent across the 13 participating > schools during the course of the year, > compared with before the program started,??? she said. > > > > > Stay connected to the people that matter > most with a smarter inbox. Take a look > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 >- Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00 From fractalbug at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 5 23:41:25 2009 From: fractalbug at yahoo.com.au (Robert Moore) Date: Thu Mar 5 23:41:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: [BFA-Oz] Solid gold on cycling is a transportation mode. In-Reply-To: <1458486678-1463792126-1236245573@boing.topica.com> References: <1458486678-1463792126-1236245573@boing.topica.com> Message-ID: <487866.97052.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> and order the Dutch Crow record-25 "design manual for bicycle traffic"at http://www.crow.nl/shop/subwebshopResults.aspx?category=90, a little pricey perhaps at 83 Euros. Nice if that was online. bobm ________________________________ From: Michael Yeates To: bfa-oz@topica.com Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 5 March, 2009 8:32:44 PM Subject: [BFA-Oz] Solid gold on cycling is a transportation mode. For those interested ... maybe including engineers (see SMH article "A lonely tree cries out for a drink in a city ruled by uncivil engineers" by Elizabeth Farrelly ... March 5, 2009). MY.......................... Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:34:40 +0100 If you think that cycling has an important role as daily transport in and around our cities, let me suggest that you have a look at this fine publication on "cycling in the Netherlands", published by the Ministry of Transport which you can pick up freely at http://www.fietsberaad.nl/library/repository/bestanden/CyclingintheNetherlands2009.pdf Solid gold. ********* BFA-Oz *********** ?..but global oil production itself is likely to peak, maybe as early as 2006. But more conventionally 2010 ? 2015.? ?It is also certain that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere near the cost of not being ready on time.? Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au ********* BFA-Oz *********** Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested in bicycle advocacy at a state and national level in Australia. It is an initiative of the Bicycle Federation of Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views expressed on this list do not necessarily represent those of the BFA, and should not be interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com Queries, complaints and suggestions to Bruce.Robinson [Delete-this].Westnet.com.au --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: fractalbug@yahoo.com.au EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiA6.a4ZCli.ZnJhY3Rh Or send an email to: bfa-oz-unsubscribe@topica.com For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER --^^--------------------------------------------------------------- Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090305/077b8d1a/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sat Mar 7 02:43:34 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sat Mar 7 02:43:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong Bridge to open Saturday Message-ID: <570910.75115.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Photos ? Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From petermccallum at me.com Sat Mar 7 17:38:15 2009 From: petermccallum at me.com (Peter McCallum) Date: Sat Mar 7 17:39:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Greens cycling policies Message-ID: The Queensland Greens transport policies contain quite a few measures for the benefit of cyclists this time around. With the state election looking quite close and the possibility that one or two Greens members being elected to the parliament it might be of interest what the Greens are proposing. Here are the cycling related items: Principles Principle 5. Too many people are forced to rely on private car use simply for lack of viable alternatives such as public transport and safe walking and cycling facilities. Measures Measure 32. Review and amend planning regulations to encourage building owners and designers to provide facilities such as secure parking and end of trip facilities for cyclists and walkers. Measure 33. Reduce urban speed limits to make roads safer for all users, particularly exposed users such as cyclists and pedestrians. Measure 41. Create bike lane and bikeway networks to connect communities to their local train stations, bus interchanges and shopping centres. Provide adequate and safe facilities for bicycle, scooter and motorcycle storage at these locations. Measure 42. Allocate a minimum of 5% of transport infrastructure funding for the provision and maintenance of cycling facilities in order to meet the usage goals in the Queensland Government's cycling plan. Measure 43. Legislate to ensure that all new state road projects and upgrades conform with the Department of Main Roads' Cycling on State Controlled Roads policy. Measure 44. Develop abandoned railway corridors as "rail trails" for cycling tourism. Measure 45. Establish an auditing process to ensure all existing cycling facilities (both on and off-road) meet the needs and expectations of cyclists. Measure 46. Establish a $100 million Regional Queensland Cycling Fund to facilitate the construction of cycling infrastructure in regional towns, pursuant to the adoption of cycling policies in line with the Department of Main Roads' Cycling on State Controlled Roads policy. The full transport policy is available at http://qld.greens.org.au/election/policy/transport/transport-policy Peter From kim at teegee.com.au Sat Mar 7 18:12:20 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sat Mar 7 18:20:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong Bridge to open Saturday In-Reply-To: <504722.1453.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <504722.1453.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49B30D64.6000504@teegee.com.au> I wasn't down that way in the morning, so there may have been some opening soiree, but certainly by the afternoon all was quiet. Apart from myself, there were a few cyclists crossing over and coming back but that's about all. In fact while I was there I noticed probably more cyclists coming back down the road from Mt Coot-tha and heading onto the freeway and back up Fredrick St. The approaches to the bridge are quite gentle in their slope, certainly not your same kind of spiral approach as the wooden one on the Victoria bridge in town. It must be the best Faraday cage ever (apart from the ped/bike bridge/tube south of the border, crossing the Motorway at Billinudgel), just the place to hang out in a lightning storm :) MR must have this thing about painting these bridges red or perhaps over ordered the red paint. The bike bridge at Logan is fully red, this one just has the red trimmings. Well they are red now but will no doubt turn to DDR in the short term, just like the Logan one. I wasn't really in my normal critical mode yesterday afternoon and so I did not look at the design attributes too closely but I was a little surprised to see that they had just used chainwire fencing alongside the approaches on the Mt Coot-that side. That style of fencing is specifically stated in the Austroads Part 14 manual that it is not to be used bordering a bikeway. No doubt it was done because it is pretty cheap. MR use it on much of the adjoining bikeway but that was built some 20 years ago before the research and the manual. I doubt 'a consistent aesthetic' was the driving force. My initial thoughts on the pedestrian/cyclist separation on the Anzac park approach was that the separation by grade was a good thing making it a bit more obvious who goes where but I guess time will tell how that works. The thin strip of grass between the two further along seems a waste of maintenance and encourages more mowers/tractors on the paths. There is a bit more signage pointing out the adjoining bikeway is bike only but that afternoon I would say there were more than usual pedestrians walking on the bikeway towards Indooroopilly. MR has gone to the effort to put down pavement markings on the new sections but the older bikeway has absolutely no signs or pavement markings to advise pedestrians on its entire few kilometre length. Will also have a bit of a look at it after dark to see how things look (or perhaps don't look). k mich rolling wrote: > Apparently the Toowong bicycle bridge is to open on Saturday (thanks to Roadgrime whoever she may be); > > Quote: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3864 > I am glad to inform you that the overpass is scheduled to be open this weekend (7 March), weather permitting. > Yours sincerely, > Toowong Roundabout Overpass Project Team > > BOM.gov.au reports Thursday and Friday weather fine so should be finished, > Saturday 'mostly fine' so an opening should be on. The opening of the Normandy tunnel was pretty lame from a cyclist attendence point of view so this one may well be as well (admission - I won't be there as work requires me elsewhere :( > > No comment on Bicycle Queensland website (would you expect it?) or Queensland Transport or Main Roads websites. I do not know what the 'caretaker' protocols are for opening a facility like this during an election campaign. Maybe prohibited? > > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Mar 8 07:08:01 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Mar 8 07:08:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [BFA-Oz] Urban cycling Message-ID: <20090308120745.LFJD11603.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> FYI ... >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/nyregion/thecity/08bike.html MY............................... From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Mar 10 19:35:45 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Mar 10 19:36:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BCC bike lockers Message-ID: <20090311003546.BGZR19114.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... It may not be widely known but in keeping with recognised public transport theory and practice, Translink apparently has a policy to NOT provide (more/any) Park'n'Ride spaces for cars at public transport within roughly 10kms of the Brisbane CBD. This of course is an excellent policy as it seeks to NOT encourage even more local traffic congestion (esp in peak hours) while at the same time reducing the pressure on parking and presumably is aimed at one day having far more of Brisbane buses routed via rail stations so bus<>rail interchange is far more effective. A similar policy should apply across the whole SEQ public transport network subject to sufficient local bus services being provided. Indeed the "new" bus services could be provided in part by NOT spending scarce funds on "new" P'n'R facilities ...! That said, and given the huge potential for cycling to/from public transport INSTEAD of subsidising even more local car traffic by providing (more) P'n'R, the LNP is promoting ie "promising" the provision of many more P'n'R spaces for public transport ... but apparently not with any particular locations yet publicised. Does anyone know of any locations for new or additional P'n'R that HAVE been announced by the LNP esp within Brisbane ? Also does anyone know why the bike lockers at CityCat terminals are sitting there like "white elephants" apparently not/never used ... and/or not promoted ? Feel free to respond on the list ... or off ...! MY................................ From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Mar 10 21:50:09 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Mar 10 21:50:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey Message-ID: QT are currently conducting a bicycle traffic survey in Bowen Hills around the RBWH. I have spotted several of the temporary video cameras used at various locations on Herston Rd and Bowen Bridge Rd as well as one on Bramston Tce. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090311/59587ade/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Mar 10 23:07:20 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Mar 10 23:07:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090311040724.YOUF2303.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Interesting ... But makes me wonder why a survey of cyclists would be done when the conditions are so apparently appalling ...! But looking on the bright side, maybe QT has a formula that it relies on to predict future cycling? Something like "for every one road warrior, 100 other cyclists ... if the facilities are up to standard"? Well we can imagine if not dream ... that somehow in all that wonderful engineering designed for so many more buses and cars, some high quality access for pedestrians and cyclists might also emerge. MY.......................... At 12:50 PM 11/03/2009, Richard Hockey wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C9A1F4.1850C5CD" > >QT are currently conducting a bicycle traffic survey in Bowen Hills >around the RBWH. I have spotted several of the temporary video >cameras used at various locations on Herston Rd and Bowen Bridge Rd >as well as one on Bramston Tce. >R > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1994 - Release Date: >03/10/09 19:51:00 From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 12 06:39:05 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Mar 12 06:39:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Are Brisbane Councillors and state politicians serious about public transport? Message-ID: <787697.61508.qm@web44814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Years ago Brisbane City Council had a press release about how BCC was trialling proximity-activated traffic lights to speed buses. Nothing more. A couple of years later Queensland State government had a press release about how QT/MR was trialling proximity-activated traffic lights to speed buses. Nothing more. A couple of years ago I asked MR and BCC how the trials were going. Not. Can't agree on who controls the intersection where BCC and MR cross. Christmaas situation now. Buses pile up in traffic queues. CanDo and TheBorg would say that it is equality at work for forty people on a bus to be held up by six people idling in cars at lights. Lack of commitment. Some places do it differently. Z?rich, Where Transit Gets Priority on the Street by Ben Fried http://www.livablestreets.com/streetswiki/zurich-switzerland Ready for some transit system envy? This week's StreetsWiki entry comes from Livable Streets member Andrew Nash, who fills us in on how surface transit became the mode of choice in Z?rich, Switzerland: Photo: Nicholas Kibre/WikipediaThe first thing one notices about Z?rich is that trams are ubiquitous downtown. The city considered changing its tram network several times (either placing the trams underground or replacing the trams with a metro system), but voters rejected spending money on these ideas. However, in 1977, Z?rich voters did approve an initiative to make the existing surface transit system work better by providing transit priority for trams and buses. Transit priority means that public transit vehicles are given priority over other forms of transportation through such measures as traffic signal control, transit-only lanes, and traffic regulations. Watch carefully as a traffic signal changes from red to green just when a tram arrives at the intersection. Transit priority was not a new idea, but Z?rich has succeeded in implementing it to a greater degree than almost any other city in the world. Z?rich's public transit priority program is described in Implementing Zurich's Transit Priority Program. Combined with Z?rich's regional rail network, the extensive implementation of transit priority techniques enables the city to provide subway-like service without a subway, Nash explains. If the Z?rich article interests you, check out Nash's entry on optimizing traffic signals for surface transit -- he's looking to add information about other cities that have implemented such systems. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Thu Mar 12 16:37:18 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Thu Mar 12 16:37:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Are Brisbane Councillors and state politicians serious about public transport? In-Reply-To: <787697.61508.qm@web44814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I understood that Brisbane's and MR's traffic control had been unified recently, ie, a year or two back. So the final excuse has disappeared. However, no surprise that nothing has happened. Why is it that Transport & Traffic Branch at BCC treats all but cars with arrogance and thoughlessness and patronize us with weasel-words that end up meaning nothing? J. On 12/3/09 9:39 PM, "mich rolling" wrote: > > Years ago Brisbane City Council had a press release about how BCC was > trialling proximity-activated traffic lights to speed buses. Nothing more. > > A couple of years later Queensland State government had a press release > about how QT/MR was trialling proximity-activated traffic lights to speed > buses. Nothing more. > > A couple of years ago I asked MR and BCC how the trials were going. Not. > Can't agree on who controls the intersection where BCC and MR cross. > > Christmaas situation now. Buses pile up in traffic queues. CanDo and > TheBorg would say that it is equality at work for forty people on a bus to be > held up by six people idling in cars at lights. > > Lack of commitment. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Mar 12 17:58:45 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Mar 12 17:58:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anyone with contacts at QT know what this is about? BTW the cameras have now disappeared. R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Wednesday, 11 March 2009 12:50 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey QT are currently conducting a bicycle traffic survey in Bowen Hills around the RBWH. I have spotted several of the temporary video cameras used at various locations on Herston Rd and Bowen Bridge Rd as well as one on Bramston Tce. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090313/c36b3706/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Mon Mar 16 03:16:29 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Mon Mar 16 03:16:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling Message-ID: <329000.58404.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Congratulations to Lord Mayor Newman and Brisbane Principal Active Transport officer Alton Twine - Two leading Cycling Promotion Fund awards for 2008! http://www.cyclingawards.com.au/node/5 Sydney-siders must be weeping at the lack of government winners in that state. Russ Webber (Bike North, promoting a cycleway onto the existing Sydney Harbour Bridge cycle lane instead of the existing 40 odd stairs) also got an extremely well deserved gong. ......................................................... The 2008 Bicycling Achievement Awards were presented in Canberra on March 16 2009 at an event presided over by former Victorian Premier The Hon Steve Bracks. A booklet with all the winners details will be available shortly, please contact the CPF office to order copies. Winners of the Sixth Annual Bicycling Achievement Awards Cycling Promotion Award (Special Initiative) ? Lord Mayor of Brisbane, Campbell Newman, Brisbane City Council Cycling Promotion Award (Professional) ? Alton Twine, Principal Active Transport, Brisbane City Council Cycling Promotion Award (Honorary) ? Russ Webber, President North Shore Bicycle Group and Ted Wilson, Victoria Contribution to Cycling by a Politician ? David Bartlett, Premier of Tasmania, Will Hodgman, Leader of the Opposition, Tasmania and Nick McKim, Leader of the Tasmanian Greens Award for an educational institution for innovation in encouraging cycling to school - Bayswater North Primary School, Victoria & Benalla West Primary School, Victoria Local Government Award for Special Initiative to encourage and promote cycling ? City of Casey, Victoria & Darebin City Council, Victoria Award for Contribution Towards Cycling by a Bicycle Retailer ? Adelaide Hills Cycles, South Australia Special Achievement Award by a Bicycle Organisation ? Pedal Power, ACT & Aboriginal Men?s Group, Miller Bike Fleet Award for Bicycle Friendly Business ? Victoria Hotel, Rutherglen, Victoria One of the objectives of the 2008 Australian Bicycling Achievement Awards is the promotion of best practice. To achieve this we develop a booklet that includes all nominations and winners. The booklet provides a summary of all nominations and winners to share information about projects that promote cycling and/or make a contribution towards improving conditions for bicycle riders. For more information about specific achievements please contact the individuals concerned. The award booklets recognise the great work being done around Australia to advance cycling. Hopefully they are also a source of inspiration. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Mon Mar 16 03:28:23 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Mon Mar 16 03:28:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling Message-ID: <834059.38585.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> That did not sound effusive enuff. Outstanding effort by Lord Mayor Newman and Alton on the CPF awards. Small changes happen too. Cycling on Brisbane City Council website has moved from 'Recreation' to 'Traffic and Transport'. The subtle message is important National Bicycling Achievement Awards 2008 Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon Mar 16 20:41:58 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon Mar 16 20:42:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling In-Reply-To: <834059.38585.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <834059.38585.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090317014139.VDOQ5528.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Mich ... but equally in a word, amazing ...! Unfortunately it appears the rationale for the awards is yet to be made available but in terms of the criteria ie based on achievements, was the Lord Mayor's Award for REMOVING the bike racks from the buses ... or for what ...? Who made the nomination? The criteria are as follows yet the LM doesn't seem to fit or to have "achieved" much beyond the normal range of "symbolic" gestures each administration seems to have provided over the previous 20 years or so ... bearing in mind that in each succeeding year the task should be easier and therefore the outcome relatively better for cyclists if the previous recipients or nominees have not only achieved but also have made a difference (presumably beneficial). Cycling Promotion Award of the Year (this seems to be the Award category for the Lord Mayors Award) Professional The nominee is an individual who has demonstrated a high level of commitment in advancing cycling within their professional field of expertise. They have been innovative and shown commitment and excellence beyond their duty and achieved outcomes that have made a real difference in creating more cycle friendly communities and/or in increasing the level of cycling. Honorary The nominee is an individual who has been acting on their own behalf, or on behalf of an organisation, in an unpaid capacity. They have demonstrated innovation, commitment and excellence through education, promotion, policy development, infrastructure design, encouragement or lobbying Nominations for this award should include a short outline of the particular contributions by the individual and their impact. Things to consider: What has been achieved and what difference has it made to cycling? What is the key outstanding achievement and in what sector? How has the individual been able to influence other stakeholders and lift the profile of cycling? How long has the individual been involved in advancing cycling? What challenges have they overcome? It is really the old problem of whether the glass is half full or half empty ... and in this case of Brisbane City Council, whether BCC is continuing to ensure cyclists are not only expected to cycle on the road but also THAT is INCREASINGLY made very clear to motorists ... being as it is a fundamental aspect of the national road rules etc etc but also fundamental to people of all ages and abilities in Brisbane being able (or feeling able) to cycle safely to wherever they want to go ... "on the road". If anything BCC seems to be reverting to emphasising off-road rather than on-road cycling ... and other than the KGS bike parking facility (a joint venture with QT etc??) much else is yet to be shown to have "achieved". Needless to say, I am looking forward to some really nice surprises in the nominations ..."outstanding effort" or not ... it is the results "on the road" that count ...! MY............................... At 06:28 PM 16/03/2009, mich rolling wrote: >That did not sound effusive enuff. Outstanding effort by Lord Mayor >Newman and Alton on the CPF awards. > >Small changes happen too. Cycling on Brisbane City Council website >has moved from 'Recreation' to 'Traffic and Transport'. The subtle >message is important > >href="http://cyclingawards.com.au" title="National Bicycling >Achievement Awards 2008">src="http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/CyclingAwards08_420x60.gif" >border="0" alt="National Bicycling Achievement Awards 2008" >title="National Bicycling Achievement Awards 2008" /> > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter > inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.16/2005 - Release Date: >03/16/09 19:01:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090317/2933c6b3/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Mon Mar 16 22:33:21 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Mon Mar 16 22:43:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling In-Reply-To: <329000.58404.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <329000.58404.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49BF1A01.2020304@teegee.com.au> The pats on the back might sound nice, but in reality the Cycling Promotion Fund is just a body representing business and trying to sell more product, it is not an 'on the ground' research body weighing and measuring the merits of bicycle infrastructure and Government spending, it probably wouldn't matter to them who got the awards. I am a little surprised that Newman's signing up a foreign company to fit out and run his bike hire scheme went down so well with local businesses. I think I would be more impressed by a 'people's vote' type of award. Perhaps we could take a vote among ourselves of just what and who is responsible for, the best/best value bicycle infrastructure around Brisbane of recent times. Perhaps a category too for the biggest lemon or white elephant project might be worthwhile to put things in perspective. k mich rolling wrote: > Congratulations to Lord Mayor Newman and Brisbane Principal Active > Transport officer Alton Twine - Two leading Cycling Promotion Fund awards > for 2008! > > http://www.cyclingawards.com.au/node/5 > > Sydney-siders must be weeping at the lack of government winners in that > state. > Russ Webber (Bike North, promoting a cycleway onto the existing Sydney > Harbour Bridge cycle lane instead of the existing 40 odd stairs) also got > an extremely well deserved gong. > ......................................................... > > > The 2008 Bicycling Achievement Awards were presented in Canberra on March > 16 2009 at an event presided over by former Victorian Premier The Hon > Steve Bracks. > > A booklet with all the winners details will be available shortly, please > contact the CPF office to order copies. > > Winners of the Sixth Annual Bicycling Achievement Awards > Cycling Promotion Award (Special Initiative) ? Lord Mayor of Brisbane, > Campbell Newman, Brisbane City Council > Cycling Promotion Award (Professional) ? Alton Twine, Principal Active > Transport, Brisbane City Council > Cycling Promotion Award (Honorary) ? Russ Webber, President North Shore > Bicycle Group and Ted Wilson, Victoria > Contribution to Cycling by a Politician ? David Bartlett, Premier of > Tasmania, Will Hodgman, Leader of the Opposition, Tasmania and Nick McKim, > Leader of the Tasmanian Greens > Award for an educational institution for innovation in encouraging cycling > to school - Bayswater North Primary School, Victoria & Benalla West > Primary School, Victoria > Local Government Award for Special Initiative to encourage and promote > cycling ? City of Casey, Victoria & Darebin City Council, Victoria > Award for Contribution Towards Cycling by a Bicycle Retailer ? Adelaide > Hills Cycles, South Australia > Special Achievement Award by a Bicycle Organisation ? Pedal Power, ACT & > Aboriginal Men?s Group, Miller Bike Fleet > Award for Bicycle Friendly Business ? Victoria Hotel, Rutherglen, Victoria > > One of the objectives of the 2008 Australian Bicycling Achievement Awards > is the promotion of best practice. To achieve this we develop a booklet > that includes all nominations and winners. The booklet provides a summary of all nominations and winners to share information about projects that > promote cycling and/or make a contribution towards improving conditions > for bicycle riders. > > For more information about specific achievements please contact the > individuals concerned. The award booklets recognise the great work being > done around Australia to advance cycling. Hopefully they are also a source > of inspiration. > > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From telstar at cfsmtb.net Wed Mar 18 00:17:58 2009 From: telstar at cfsmtb.net (telstar@cfsmtb.net) Date: Wed Mar 18 00:19:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: bikeqld Digest, Vol 43, Issue 11 Message-ID: <4038.121.219.159.65.1237353478.squirrel@cfsmtb.net> For those interested in the BA Awards, the winners and the nominations, here 'tis the Awards booklet in pdf format. The Australian Bicycling Achievement Awards 2008(3.6M) http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/CPF_Awards_08_Bklt_web.pdf BA website: http://www.cyclingawards.com.au Hard copies available soon for your reading pleasure/displeasure. cheers, me ;) -- ---------------------------------------- Don't get involved in partial problems, but always take flight to where there is a free view over the whole single great problem, even if this view is still not a clear one - Ludwig Wittgenstein http://cfsmtb.net http://www.woj.com.au http://www.ycat.org.au http://www.yarrabug.org/radio http://www.melbournecyclist.com ---------------------------------------- From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Mar 18 03:23:38 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Mar 18 03:23:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0705050375@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Kim Chris has kindly posted the nominations and it would be worth looking at these to see just what it was that CAN'T did for his award, who nominated him etc. I for one am highly sceptical about his epiphany as a bike lover. I thought you were a bit unfair extrapolating from supposition about that point, to take aim at CPF in general. I have glanced at their work in the past and can't cite it, but I don't think they are merely sycophants and instruments of business and consumerism with no value to the rest of us as you imply. Pete > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:33:21 +1000 > From: kim > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling > To: BikeQld > Message-ID: <49BF1A01.2020304@teegee.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > The pats on the back might sound nice, but in reality the Cycling > Promotion Fund is just a body representing business and trying to sell > more product, it is not an 'on the ground' research body weighing and > measuring the merits of bicycle infrastructure and Government spending, > it probably wouldn't matter to them who got the awards. I am a little > surprised that Newman's signing up a foreign company to fit out and run > his bike hire scheme went down so well with local businesses. I think I > would be more impressed by a 'people's vote' type of award. Perhaps we > could take a vote among ourselves of just what and who is responsible > for, the best/best value bicycle infrastructure around Brisbane of > recent times. Perhaps a category too for the biggest lemon or white > elephant project might be worthwhile to put things in perspective. > k > > > > -- > ---------------------------------------- > Don't get involved in partial problems, > but always take flight to where there is > a free view over the whole single great > problem, even if this view is still not > a clear one - Ludwig Wittgenstein > > http://cfsmtb.net > http://www.woj.com.au > http://www.ycat.org.au > http://www.yarrabug.org/radio > http://www.melbournecyclist.com > ---------------------------------------- > -- ---------------------------------------- Don't get involved in partial problems, but always take flight to where there is a free view over the whole single great problem, even if this view is still not a clear one - Ludwig Wittgenstein http://cfsmtb.net http://www.woj.com.au http://www.ycat.org.au http://www.yarrabug.org/radio http://www.melbournecyclist.com ---------------------------------------- From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Mar 18 18:53:56 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Mar 18 18:54:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Message-ID: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another cyclist that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written warnings to cyclists cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on the Western Freeway. Did anybody here witness that? Given that crossing actually has lean bars on it I had assumed that amounted to tacit approval of cycling across there (what else are they for?!) even though it is of course a violation of section 248 of the road rules. Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked foot crossing on North Quay: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg Seems like some pretty mixed messages? Ian From stephen.viller at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 18:59:16 2009 From: stephen.viller at gmail.com (Stephen Viller) Date: Wed Mar 18 18:59:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <705EC19D-1B1E-4014-93D5-732B1D6E55C8@gmail.com> Hi Ian, My parter cycles in past there most days and also spotted this on tuesday morning (she asked me if there had been any reports on this list about what was happening). Her account backs up what you say, that it seemed to be regarding cycling across the pedestrian crossing that runs across the left turn lane on the Western Freeway off-ramp onto Moggill Road. Much discussion followed on the awful redesign of the intersection from the cyclists' perspective, along with what a great start is was to cycle week. Stephen. On 19/03/2009, at 9:53 am, Ian Lister wrote: > This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another > cyclist that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written > warnings to cyclists cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on > the Western Freeway. Did anybody here witness that? Given that > crossing actually has lean bars on it I had assumed that amounted to > tacit approval of cycling across there (what else are they for?!) > even though it is of course a violation of section 248 of the road > rules. > > Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of > the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked foot > crossing on North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -- Stephen Viller Brisbane, Australia stephen.viller@gmail.com From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 18 19:21:45 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Wed Mar 18 19:21:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > > ...Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the > end of the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the > marked foot crossing on North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? Two of the three look like they're not actually ON the crossing Ian (though damn close). Sect 248 proscribes riding across "on a ... crossing", vis: "248 No riding across a road on a crossing The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or part of a road, on a children's crossing, marked foot crossing or pedestrian crossing." In law, words generally mean what they say. That is, *exactly* what they say, not what you or I might think they meant to say. [There may, of course, be other provisions which could be construed to proscribe what the two are doing. Like eg Sects 129-135, which say keep to the left side of the road.] G. From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Mar 18 19:34:30 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Mar 18 19:34:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <705EC19D-1B1E-4014-93D5-732B1D6E55C8@gmail.com> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <705EC19D-1B1E-4014-93D5-732B1D6E55C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090319003427.PAOS28907.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Interesting ... Good to see police ON bikes ... these police are obviously operating under a Code 1 emergency ... and flashing lights etc are not obvious ... |-O Then again, moving to the Moggill Road crossing and its history, and looking on the bright side (glass half full?) maybe there is a need to justify the need for Ronan Lee's overpass ... and police tickets do help. Perhaps a presumption he will be returned? Trouble is, if the process is anything like the "need" to cross Milton Road at the end of Sylvan Road, which WAS originally the "need" for what eventually morphed into the Toowong Overpass, it will probably be built at Kenmore ...! As for the holding rails, does their absence in other locations have a similarly confusing meaning ie don't stop here but keep pedalling? MY................ At 09:59 AM 19/03/2009, Stephen Viller wrote: >Hi Ian, > >My parter cycles in past there most days and also spotted this on >tuesday morning (she asked me if there had been any reports on this >list about what was happening). Her account backs up what you say, >that it seemed to be regarding cycling across the pedestrian crossing >that runs across the left turn lane on the Western Freeway off-ramp >onto Moggill Road. > >Much discussion followed on the awful redesign of the intersection >from the cyclists' perspective, along with what a great start is was >to cycle week. > >Stephen. > >On 19/03/2009, at 9:53 am, Ian Lister wrote: > >>This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another >>cyclist that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written >>warnings to cyclists cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on >>the Western Freeway. Did anybody here witness that? Given that >>crossing actually has lean bars on it I had assumed that amounted to >>tacit approval of cycling across there (what else are they for?!) >>even though it is of course a violation of section 248 of the road >>rules. >> >>Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of >>the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked foot >>crossing on North Quay: >> >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg >> >>Seems like some pretty mixed messages? >> >>Ian >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >-- >Stephen Viller >Brisbane, Australia >stephen.viller@gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: >03/18/09 20:27:00 From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Mar 18 20:12:32 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Mar 18 20:12:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> Message-ID: They are just doing what everyone else on a bike does. It just proves we have laws that are way too fussy and only useful as means of entrapment. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Glen Fergus Sent: March 19, 2009 10:22 AM To: Bikeqld Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > > ...Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the > end of the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the > marked foot crossing on North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? Two of the three look like they're not actually ON the crossing Ian (though damn close). Sect 248 proscribes riding across "on a ... crossing", vis: "248 No riding across a road on a crossing The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or part of a road, on a children's crossing, marked foot crossing or pedestrian crossing." In law, words generally mean what they say. That is, *exactly* what they say, not what you or I might think they meant to say. [There may, of course, be other provisions which could be construed to proscribe what the two are doing. Like eg Sects 129-135, which say keep to the left side of the road.] G. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From stephen.viller at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 20:58:50 2009 From: stephen.viller at gmail.com (Stephen Viller) Date: Wed Mar 18 20:59:03 2009 Subject: Fwd: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement References: <497E0237000336E5@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> Message-ID: <8DA83498-1A57-4E52-B78F-41DA4BB1046C@gmail.com> I think this just came to me... --S. Begin forwarded message: > From: dhorton@iprimus.com.au > Date: 19 March 2009 11:45:13 am > To: "Stephen Viller" > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > > Is anyone requesting re-engineering the crossings to have cycle > suitable > signals? > The intersection is a Main Roads intersection (not BCC). It is in > state eceltorate > of Indooroopilly, though Moggill and whatever is on the other side > of the > river probably produce the cycle traffic across it. > > David > -- Stephen Viller Brisbane, Australia stephen.viller@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/995e881d/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Mar 18 22:09:33 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Mar 18 22:09:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Message-ID: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/62b8cc8f/attachment-0001.htm From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Mar 18 22:13:43 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Mar 18 22:13:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Message-ID: <53351.1237432423@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/d561d9a9/attachment.htm From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Mar 18 22:25:05 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Mar 18 22:25:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Message-ID: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/70236fbf/attachment.htm From telstar at cfsmtb.net Wed Mar 18 23:08:34 2009 From: telstar at cfsmtb.net (telstar@cfsmtb.net) Date: Wed Mar 18 23:09:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <169ec6cf4acf177f4178200437e25f7b@cfsmtb.net> Mark Hinchcliffe wrote the CM article, and this one too three years ago: http://www.woj.com.au/HinchcliffeTorqueFeb06.pdf *** Issue sheet; Bicycles belong on the road, registration free (PDF file 575k) http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/content/view/213/150/ There is a view that if cyclists want to be taken seriously and be provided with first class bicycle infrastructure, they ought to pay registration fees like motorists. By placing registration fees on bicycles, governments would be losing far more than they gain in registration revenue. (Hard copies also available :) ) On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:25:05 +0900, Daniel Young wrote: Although Brisbane Times has Ben Wilson denying the news.com.au report: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous/2009/03/19/1237054955647.html [2] On Thu Mar 19 13:09 , "Richard Hockey" sent: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html [3] Links: ------ [1] http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/factsheets/Issue_Sheet_5_Bicycles_belong_on_the_road.pdf [2] http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous/2009/03/19/1237054955647.html [3] http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Mar 19 00:54:40 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Mar 19 00:54:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Yellow bikes on Herston Rd Message-ID: Yellow bike symbols have appeared today on Herston Rd. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/db325128/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 19 00:59:52 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 19 01:00:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <20090319155915.M15294@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Daniel Young wrote: > Although Brisbane Times has Ben Wilson denying the news.com.au report: > > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous > /2009/03/19/1237054955647.html Time to renew your BQ membership and terminate your CM subscription then? ;-) Ian From entropic at iinet.net.au Thu Mar 19 01:03:45 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Thu Mar 19 01:04:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Message-ID: <45197.1237442625@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/f6b653fc/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Mar 19 01:14:02 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Mar 19 01:14:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: So did the CM invent the quotes attributed to Ben Wilson? R From: Daniel Young [mailto:entropic@iinet.net.au] Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2009 1:25 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au; Richard Hockey Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Although Brisbane Times has Ben Wilson denying the news.com.au report: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ri diculous/2009/03/19/1237054955647.html On Thu Mar 19 13:09 , "Richard Hockey" sent: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/2f983293/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Thu Mar 19 02:12:02 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Thu Mar 19 02:12:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <169ec6cf4acf177f4178200437e25f7b@cfsmtb.net> Message-ID: I don't think it's ever worth spending too much energy on Mark H'liffe's pieces. He enjoys being contrarian and likes to stir up cyclists and peds, anyone who gets in the way of cars, but I don't think he has a belief in his head. Probably about anything. Brother Councillor David H'liffe showed a similar interest in principles when he was BCC's ALP leader. Never opposed anything Can-do wanted, which is why the Hale St disgrace is being built, at great cost to ratepayers who are risking their funds in this doomed venture. J. On 19/3/09 2:08 PM, "telstar@cfsmtb.net" wrote: > Mark Hinchcliffe wrote the CM article, and this one too three years ago: > > http://www.woj.com.au/HinchcliffeTorqueFeb06.pdf > > *** > > Issue sheet; Bicycles belong on the road, registration free (PDF file > 575k) > http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/content/view/213/150/ > > There is a view that if cyclists want to be taken seriously and be provided > with first class bicycle infrastructure, they ought to pay > registration fees like motorists. By placing registration fees on bicycles, > governments would be losing far more than they gain in registration > revenue. > > (Hard copies also available :) ) From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 19 03:44:38 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 19 03:44:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <20090319180116.K15294@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > So did the CM invent the quotes attributed to Ben Wilson? I don't know. They're pretty unexciting compared to the (unsubstantiated) opinion added to the top of the article by the "journalist" and editor, though. Not a single quote in the article supports the headline's claim that "[BQ] wants cyclists to be licensed", and the lead paragraph's claim that BQ won't give any argument against licensing cyclists appears to be based on misconstrual of the quote in the fifth and sixth paragraphs: > "Most cyclists have a driver's licence, and if they break the law, they > get a fine, but it doesn't affect their driver's licence," he said. > > "There is reason to say that a driver's licence should have the ability > to be penalised or cancelled if a bike rider is anti-social." While there is of course always the problem of limited context, I read that quote as admitting that an argument _could_ be made for traffic offences by cyclists to incur demerit points against a (motor vehicle) driver's licence _if_ the cyclist has one. I don't see that it refers to licensing for cyclists at all (neither a new class of licence nor mandatory possession of any kind of licence), although that is the subject of the article and how the quote is being presented. Nor do I see that the quote is in favour of (or gives any opinion on) demerit points for cycle offences. So, I don't see anything particularly interesting in the quotes attributed to Ben, and therefore I don't have any real reason to be concerned about how accurate they were. It's just a beat-up of an article by an anti-cycling bigot who, as John said, just wants to create a bit of controversy. It's an old recipe and seems to have worked yet again. Sounds like you think the quotes are controversial in themselves, though? Ian From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Mar 19 06:38:59 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Mar 19 06:39:11 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <53351.1237432423@iinet.net.au> References: <53351.1237432423@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <006d01c9a887$4c2b0970$e4811c50$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Rubbish. Vindicates my decision never to buy a Courier Mail. From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Daniel Young Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2009 1:14 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Vindicates my decision a few years ago to terminate and never renew my BQ membership... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/f222a531/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Mar 19 06:38:59 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Mar 19 06:39:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> Message-ID: <007201c9a887$4dc77b60$e9567220$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> ... and people on bikes are just doing what everyone else does, which is obey the laws that suit them at the time (witness J-walking, mobile phone use whilst driving, running red lights, speeding). Why do people expect cyclists to be holier than the community they live in? Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2009 11:13 AM To: 'Glen Fergus'; 'Bikeqld' Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement They are just doing what everyone else on a bike does. It just proves we have laws that are way too fussy and only useful as means of entrapment. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Glen Fergus Sent: March 19, 2009 10:22 AM To: Bikeqld Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > > ...Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the > end of the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the > marked foot crossing on North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? Two of the three look like they're not actually ON the crossing Ian (though damn close). Sect 248 proscribes riding across "on a ... crossing", vis: "248 No riding across a road on a crossing The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or part of a road, on a children's crossing, marked foot crossing or pedestrian crossing." In law, words generally mean what they say. That is, *exactly* what they say, not what you or I might think they meant to say. [There may, of course, be other provisions which could be construed to proscribe what the two are doing. Like eg Sects 129-135, which say keep to the left side of the road.] G. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 19 15:40:45 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Mar 19 15:40:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <20090319155915.M15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> <20090319155915.M15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <163958.93554.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ian, Better still, let's all ring the Courier Mail and tell them they ought to hire better reporters! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 19 March, 2009 3:59:52 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Daniel Young wrote: > Although Brisbane Times has Ben Wilson denying the news.com.au report: > > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous > /2009/03/19/1237054955647.html Time to renew your BQ membership and terminate your CM subscription then? ;-) Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090319/07732c0c/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Mar 19 18:42:36 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Mar 19 18:42:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail In-Reply-To: <169ec6cf4acf177f4178200437e25f7b@cfsmtb.net> References: <58723.1237433105@iinet.net.au> <169ec6cf4acf177f4178200437e25f7b@cfsmtb.net> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07060DCB13@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Yeah I loved the bit in this one where it was a cyclist's fault for a motorist going around a blind corner at 80 km/h. :D P -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of telstar@cfsmtb.net Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2009 2:09 PM To: entropic@iinet.net.au Cc: Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Queensland bike lobby group wants cyclists to be licensed | The Courier-Mail Mark Hinchcliffe wrote the CM article, and this one too three years ago: http://www.woj.com.au/HinchcliffeTorqueFeb06.pdf *** Issue sheet; Bicycles belong on the road, registration free (PDF file 575k) http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/content/view/213/150/ There is a view that if cyclists want to be taken seriously and be provided with first class bicycle infrastructure, they ought to pay registration fees like motorists. By placing registration fees on bicycles, governments would be losing far more than they gain in registration revenue. (Hard copies also available :) ) On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:25:05 +0900, Daniel Young wrote: Although Brisbane Times has Ben Wilson denying the news.com.au report: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous/2009/03/19/1237054955647.html [2] On Thu Mar 19 13:09 , "Richard Hockey" sent: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html [3] Links: ------ [1] http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/factsheets/Issue_Sheet_5_Bicycles_belong_on_the_road.pdf [2] http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bicycle-licence-calls-ridiculous/2009/03/19/1237054955647.html [3] http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25207487-952,00.html _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Mar 19 19:46:34 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Mar 19 19:55:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0705050375@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0705050375@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <49C2E76A.6080809@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090320/53ab829b/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 19 20:36:12 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 19 20:36:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <648DED8C0AE64AD697F4E2236923547B@golder.gds> Message-ID: <20090320110339.G15294@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Glen Fergus wrote: [ Ian wrote: ] >> ...Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the >> end of the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the >> marked foot crossing on North Quay: [snip] > Two of the three look like they're not actually ON the crossing > Ian (though damn close). [snip] You're right, the photo is not the greatest, and doesn't show all three on the crossing. I'm not sure that's all that important, though, unless perhaps I were trying to prosecute the officers based on the evidence in the photo, which I'm not. Although it's not shown in that photo, all three officers entered and exited the road using the ramps within the marked foot crossing, went out towards the centre of the intersection to give the pedestrians a respectably wide berth, then at a relaxed pace headed down to the Bicentennial Bikeway and out to Toowong (coincidentally the same place I was going). At the end of the North Quay section of separated path two of the officers seemed unaware that the path had become a shared path and continued on the wrong side of it for about ten or twenty metres, until their companion called out to them and narrowly averted a collision with some oncoming cyclists. At the Regatta lights they briefly but inconclusively discussed whether they should dismount to cross. When the lights eventually changed they did start to cross dismounted but then hopped back on their bikes part way across, left the boundaries of the marked foot crossing, and headed off down Sylvan Rd, mostly sticking to the bike lane where it exists, but sometimes straying out into the general traffic lane. In short they acted just as most other ordinary cyclists do every day. Nothing to be particularly surprised or concerned about, other than being at a slightly higher risk of disgruntlement when they (the QPS) then hold other ordinary cyclists to a higher standard by warning or charging them for committing any of the above offences, as they were doing on Tuesday. Ian From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Mar 19 20:36:22 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Mar 19 20:45:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <49C2F316.2010806@teegee.com.au> I find it pretty amazing that that particular crossing on one of Brisbane's most utilised bikeways, still has no ride-over facility. Main Roads don't seem to have bought into that philosophy at all. Even BCC has started making some ride-over facilities at pedestrian crossings. That particular crossing of Moggill Rd is really a bit of a no-man's land for pedestrians. You would probably count 100 cyclists crossing there for every one pedestrian and even if there were more pedestrians, there is gobs of room for both to do so safely. Heading outbound there is even a sign for cyclists to dismount to cross the now defunct slip lane. In my view MR could easily install a ride-over facility for cyclists to improve their own bikeway. What are our thoughts on this bikeway becoming a shared path? Main Roads seems quite content with the idea and makes no effort to warn pedestrians off the bikeway (certainly not on the older section). I have noticed an increase in the number of pedestrians using the bikeway, particularly after daylight hours, which can be dangerous. I have mentioned this to the local police in the past and I find it pretty ironic (although not so surprising) that the police are actually targeting the cyclists for using the pedestrian facilities. I will ask MR if indeed they are encouraging me, or would prefer me, to use the road rather than this bikeway as it seems that they prefer to avail the facility to pedestrians as well as discontinuing the bikeway across moggill rd and making cyclists walk across. It should be noted that the Western Freeway is able to be legally used by cyclists and has mostly adequate shoulders. Perhaps MR might review their design if cyclists started using the road along there. kim ps Ian, you must be pretty quick with your camera to catch that one in town. It's a wonder they did not hassle you about taking the picture and jail you on some terrorism charge :) I too have seen the bike police, (bobbies on bicycles two by two) but they seem to confine themselves to just the inner city paths. I have never seen any as far out as the Western Freeway on their bikes, only in cars on the bike track. I actually had some OH&S concerns when I have seen them. I am not sure that having all the gear strapped around their waist including presumably loaded weapons, could be such a good thing in the event of an accident or fall. I see them riding motorcycles with even heftier belts and short sleeved office shirts and as a former motorcyclist myself, I cringe. Ian Lister wrote: > This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another > cyclist that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written > warnings to cyclists cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on the > Western Freeway. Did anybody here witness that? Given that crossing > actually has lean bars on it I had assumed that amounted to tacit > approval of cycling across there (what else are they for?!) even > though it is of course a violation of section 248 of the road rules. > > Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of the > breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked foot > crossing on North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Mar 19 20:54:18 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Mar 19 20:54:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling In-Reply-To: <49C2E76A.6080809@teegee.com.au> References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0705050375@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <49C2E76A.6080809@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <20090320015420.XJYL17925.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Interesting discussion ...thanks Pete and Kim ...! What was of some interest in the CPF "ACHIEVEMENT" Awards is the differences in types of projects/people nominated and/or awarded in the various categories. One issue is whether a single project eg the KGS facility is really the measure to judge such an award ... This is also a reason why both the nominators and the judges/assessors should be made explicit ... so the inevitable "biases" are at least out in the open and can help make more sense of the decisions. Another issue (of particular concern to me and perhaps others) is the apparent scarcity and/or importance/significance of "on the road" projects that do what so long ago the Geelong Bike Plan set out to do ... to make "every street (and road) a cycling street". Not just one street or one bridge or a pretty good if too small bike parking station ... so should an achievement award recipient have "achieved" the outcomes as planned and sustained them? These are "achievement" awards ... and like planning, surely achieving is being able to show a demonstrable outcome over time? Otherwise achievements can include projects which are temporary eg like the "bike racks on buses" or the $26 + millions spent on providing the priority bus lanes on Coro Drive" and no doubt for some, their subsequent removal also ranks as an "achievement" worthy of an award ... but from the CPF ??? It seems to me that it is worth noting that "cycling promotion" presumably refers to promoting all forms and types of cycling, not just some. I also found the lack of nominations from Queensland as compared to those in categories from other states in certain categories informative ... perhaps nobody bothered, or perhaps ..............? We have to be very careful of "symbolic gestures" ... and weasel word policies ... the modern equivalents of and as effective as, Trojan horses ...! In that category, it appears out our way that the LNP has forgotten about cycling ... can anyone provide me with evidence to the contrary preferably by way of scanned copiers of flyers rather than web site references? One candidate out our way is campaigning south of the river for an "upgrade of the Walter Taylor Bridge". Now in terms of weasel words, I wonder how many meanings are being attributed to what "upgrade" really means for a rather historic suspension bridge that currently acts as an excellent incentive to use modes other than the car ... modes which incidentally already have three VERY under-utilised bridges immediately adjacent to to the WTB? And do you think the same campaign has been promoted to the north of the WTB ...?? It is just seems that awarding an achievement award to the Lord Mayor of a city which has for so long had so many areas without any connectivity and no public plans to change the situation and what appears to be a reduction in rolling out the "yellow BIKEs" and slower speed LATM and traffic calmed areas seems well ... a bit optimistic? An encouragement award perhaps? Or like the school report ... "well done but CAN DO better" ??? MY........................... At 10:46 AM 20/03/2009, kim wrote: >Hi Pete, > >Yeah, you are right, it was a bit unfair of me to have a dig at the >CPF because Newman got an award for furthering the cause of cycling. >I apologise for that. I think I am just grumpy because I am >suffering from politician overload at the moment. With the election >coming up, there is just so much BS being tossed around. I am also >very unhappy with BCC over their handling of dozens of bicycle >issues I have raised in the past. There is little joy. > >I guess its not as much a slap in the face as John Howard's Man of >Steel and Peace award from George Bush. > >The positive thing, tho, is that there were plenty of good nominees >all doing real work to promote the cause of cycling and I know that >there are people within the BCC who are doing good work too. > >cheers > >kim > > >Peter Whittle wrote: >> >>Kim >> >>Chris has kindly posted the nominations and it would be worth >>looking at these to see just what it was that CAN'T did for his >>award, who nominated him etc. I for one am highly sceptical about >>his epiphany as a bike lover. >> >>I thought you were a bit unfair extrapolating from supposition >>about that point, to take aim at CPF in general. I have glanced at >>their work in the past and can't cite it, but I don't think they >>are merely sycophants and instruments of business and consumerism >>with no value to the rest of us as you imply. >> >>Pete >> >> >>> >>>Message: 2 >>>Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:33:21 +1000 >>>From: kim >>>Subject: Re: [bikeqld] CanDo and Altone Do It for Brisbane Cycling >>>To: BikeQld >>>Message-ID: >>><49BF1A01.2020304@teegee.com.au> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >>> >>>The pats on the back might sound nice, but in reality the Cycling >>>Promotion Fund is just a body representing business and trying to sell >>>more product, it is not an 'on the ground' research body weighing and >>>measuring the merits of bicycle infrastructure and Government spending, >>>it probably wouldn't matter to them who got the awards. I am a little >>>surprised that Newman's signing up a foreign company to fit out and run >>>his bike hire scheme went down so well with local businesses. I think I >>>would be more impressed by a 'people's vote' type of award. Perhaps we >>>could take a vote among ourselves of just what and who is responsible >>>for, the best/best value bicycle infrastructure around Brisbane of >>>recent times. Perhaps a category too for the biggest lemon or white >>>elephant project might be worthwhile to put things in perspective. >>>k >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>---------------------------------------- >>>Don't get involved in partial problems, >>>but always take flight to where there is >>>a free view over the whole single great >>>problem, even if this view is still not >>>a clear one - Ludwig Wittgenstein >>> >>>http://cfsmtb.net >>>http://www.woj.com.au >>>http://www.ycat.org.au >>>http://www.yarrabug.org/radio >>>http://www.melbournecyclist.com >>>---------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.20/2013 - Release Date: >03/19/09 19:03:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090320/79bbd4ed/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 19 23:00:39 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 19 23:01:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BCC ATU survey volunteers Message-ID: <20090320135709.D15294@singha.lister.id.au> Some of you may already be aware of this through other forums, but BCC's active transport unit is looking for volunteers to help conduct surveys of shared path users next week. They're still short of volunteers and I'm sure would be grateful for any help they can get. Contact, date, time and location details are available at: http://cbdbug.blogspot.com/2009/03/bcc-active-transport-intercept.html Ian From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat Mar 21 03:11:45 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat Mar 21 03:11:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How cantonese pop star Alan Tam use to ride before they had proper Mountain bikes! Message-ID: <324585.44675.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I found this YouTube video funny. Alan Tam (a Cantonese pop singer) in a movie called "You are my destiny" chases a Japanese being kidnapped in by a bunch of gangster (in a Kingswood?). Tam chases the the gangster car and manages to hang on to the car's antenna. Almost as good as Jacki Chan but on a bicycle (without front suspension!). Watch him jump on to a double-decker bus. I wish I know if he did his own stun. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLBCR3kHIQY&feature=related Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090321/7dcab086/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Sat Mar 21 21:47:46 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sat Mar 21 21:56:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Stanley St Bike Lane Message-ID: <49C5A6D2.5020704@teegee.com.au> I guess I never paid enough attention in the past to notice that the bike lane on Stanley St at Woolloongabba seems to only be operational between the hours of 7am and 9am Monday to Friday, at least according to the sign where it passes under the M1 Motorway. Like most BCC bike infrastructure it seems quite vague and there are no obvious starts or finishes to the time limited section of bike lane or indeed even other signs to confirm it. Have we got any similar time limits on any other on-road bike lanes around Bris? Was that also suggested for the controversial one over at Morningside way? A bit of good news out of BCC tho; the bike lane section which runs past the M1 entrance ramp which is severely lacking in any protection for users is supposedly going to get some attention with at least some green pavement marking to make it more obvious to the thousands of motorists who dart across it illegally during afternoon peak to access the M1. Council currently just has a piddly no left turn sign which was totally obscured by a tree until recently and argued for over a year that it was the responsibility of MR but finally admitted it was their own and will erect a no left turn sign (afternoon peak times only) on the overhead gantry where it can at least be seen. I can't see motorists paying a lot of attention to it tho after habitually using the entrance illegally for many years. When I asked why a controlled flashing LED no left sign (ala the Cribb St detour for the HSL) could not be erected they said that the costs would outweigh the benefits. I guess cyclists lives and M1 congestion management don't have much of an associated worth in that cost/benefit calculation. I reckon it should be the responsibility of MR to do it tho, as it is primarily a measure to mitigate congestion on their M1. Cyclists are unfortunately just the meat in the sandwich (to use a bad metaphor) in that situation. kim From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Mar 23 19:34:03 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Mar 23 19:34:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The survey cameras are back, the weather should be kinder this time. From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Wednesday, 11 March 2009 12:50 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bowen Hills traffic survey QT are currently conducting a bicycle traffic survey in Bowen Hills around the RBWH. I have spotted several of the temporary video cameras used at various locations on Herston Rd and Bowen Bridge Rd as well as one on Bramston Tce. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090324/9232f8f4/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Mar 24 00:41:58 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Mar 24 00:42:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brochure for RBWH cycle centre Message-ID: http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb0df84fd7ddcab/Pdf_rbwh_ cycle_centre_brochure.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090324/ac153d62/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Mar 24 04:17:17 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Mar 24 04:17:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brochure for RBWH cycle centre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76216C5634DC483DAA60F86B3828D8AD@maud> That's really first class. That has to encourage staff to cycle to work as opposed to sitting in traffic. You can't park up there unless you are a millionaire. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: March 24, 2009 3:42 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Brochure for RBWH cycle centre http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb0df84fd7ddcab/Pdf_rbwh_cycl e_centre_brochure.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090324/c92022ac/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Tue Mar 24 22:21:49 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Tue Mar 24 22:22:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! Message-ID: <37778.1237951309@people.net.au> Well, as of 1:05pm today, it became evident that the Hilton Hotel owns the section of footpath that runs past their dingey dump on Elizabeth St in the city (Brisbane). Someone on a not-inexpensive MTB had chained their bike up to one of the poles out the front (ie: on the taxpayer side of the property) and someone has left a nasty note on it: (paraphrasing) "This is not a bike parking spot. It is a hotel flagpole. DO NOT leave it here again or it will be cut off and removed!!!" I couldn't take a photo as I have a mobile phone that actually makes phone calls and doesn't do much else. Just thought I would throw it out there should anyone want to take issue with the hotel.... Myself, I wouldn't care and would get an old bike and a proper krytonite lock and sit across the road watching them try and remove it >:) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090325/0e6d4410/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Mar 24 22:55:29 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Mar 24 22:55:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! In-Reply-To: <37778.1237951309@people.net.au> References: <37778.1237951309@people.net.au> Message-ID: <11A8BB1B0AF8414EA058D79A8F29BD4A@maud> Yea this might be the outcome that we will get from expensive bike parks. "No bike parking" signs. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: March 25, 2009 1:22 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Cc: audax-oz@vicnet.net.au Subject: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! Well, as of 1:05pm today, it became evident that the Hilton Hotel owns the section of footpath that runs past their dingey dump on Elizabeth St in the city (Brisbane). Someone on a not-inexpensive MTB had chained their bike up to one of the poles out the front (ie: on the taxpayer side of the property) and someone has left a nasty note on it: (paraphrasing) "This is not a bike parking spot. It is a hotel flagpole. DO NOT leave it here again or it will be cut off and removed!!!" I couldn't take a photo as I have a mobile phone that actually makes phone calls and doesn't do much else. Just thought I would throw it out there should anyone want to take issue with the hotel.... Myself, I wouldn't care and would get an old bike and a proper krytonite lock and sit across the road watching them try and remove it >:) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090325/4d058f85/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Wed Mar 25 02:32:11 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Wed Mar 25 02:32:36 2009 Subject: Fwd: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! References: Message-ID: <3CBB0CD0-D98B-4923-837F-3E0F00F483E3@bigpond.com> Mick Fanning Begin forwarded message: > From: Mick Fanning > Date: 25 March 2009 17:31:16 > To: "matt@people.net.au" > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! > > A few years ago the shopping centres were wheel clamping cars that > were overstaying their welcome. The courts decided that this was > interfering with private property so they had to stop. I would guess > that cutting a bike lock in this circumstance would also be > interfering with private property. > > Mick Fanning > > On 25/03/2009, at 13:21, Matt wrote: > >> >> Well, as of 1:05pm today, it became evident that the Hilton Hotel >> owns the section of footpath that runs past their dingey dump on >> Elizabeth St in the city (Brisbane). >> >> Someone on a not-inexpensive MTB had chained their bike up to one >> of the poles out the front (ie: on the taxpayer side of the >> property) and someone has left a nasty note on it: (paraphrasing) >> "This is not a bike parking spot. It is a hotel flagpole. DO NOT >> leave it here again or it will be cut off and removed!!!" >> >> I couldn't take a photo as I have a mobile phone that actually >> makes phone calls and doesn't do much else. >> >> Just thought I would throw it out there should anyone want to take >> issue with the hotel.... Myself, I wouldn't care and would get an >> old bike and a proper krytonite lock and sit across the road >> watching them try and remove it >:) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090325/d7b38ff6/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Mar 25 06:59:06 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Mar 25 06:59:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Hilton owns the footpath too! In-Reply-To: <3CBB0CD0-D98B-4923-837F-3E0F00F483E3@bigpond.com> References: <3CBB0CD0-D98B-4923-837F-3E0F00F483E3@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <20090325213012.B1280@singha.lister.id.au> As another (more anecdotal) data point, my local shopping centre is (or was) in the habit of having its security guards put nastygrams on bikes not parked in their cruddy, non-AS2890.3 bike racks. These nastygrams claimed that the bicycle in question was parked illegally and threatened more serious action if it was found parked like that again. I don't actually recall how explicit or specific the threat was. Anyway, one day I had a bit of a chat to one of the security guards I spotted tagging a bike with one of these nastygrams. I was interested in establishing whether there was any substance to the claim of illegality, and what action they took against repeat offenders. He was fairly adamant that of course it was illegal because it was private property (which seemed like a non sequitur that I chose not to pursue any further), but fairly readily conceded that the centre didn't actually follow through and do anything more than post the notes on the bikes. So, perhaps the Hilton is full of hot air too. Cheers, Ian On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Mick Fanning wrote: > A few years ago the shopping centres were wheel clamping cars that were > overstaying their welcome. The courts decided that this was interfering > with private property so they had to stop. I would guess that cutting a > bike lock in this circumstance would also be interfering with private > property. > > Mick Fanning From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 25 17:01:35 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Mar 25 17:01:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Perceptions of bicycle safety Message-ID: <002c01c9ad95$44514940$ccf3dbc0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Some data in the form of a quiz, to challenge your perceptions and to be armed against those "friends" who are so concerned about your safety as a cyclist: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/SafetyQuiz.htm Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/5c4f9f04/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 25 17:16:16 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Mar 25 17:16:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: [saturday-bunch:1082] Perceptions of bicycle safety In-Reply-To: <002c01c9ad95$44514940$ccf3dbc0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <002c01c9ad95$44514940$ccf3dbc0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <004201c9ad97$51c9dae0$f55d90a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Oh dear, I just saw this answer. Our general position is shameful enough, but to be worse than the USA? Woe! France: An hour of cycling is safer than an hour of driving. Germany: cycling is about equal in safety, per hour. Sweden: cycling is about equal in safety. Switzerland: cycling is about equal in safety. Netherlands: cycling is about equal in safety. Australia: cycling is slightly more dangerous than driving. USA: cycling is safer than driving, per hour. Britain: cycling is more dangerous. From: south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 8:02 AM To: south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [saturday-bunch:1082] Perceptions of bicycle safety Some data in the form of a quiz, to challenge your perceptions and to be armed against those "friends" who are so concerned about your safety as a cyclist: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/SafetyQuiz.htm Pete --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed to the "South Bank Saturday bunch" group. To post, send email to south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe? send email to south-bank-saturday-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Options: http://groups.google.com.au/group/south-bank-saturday-bunch?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/07fdf663/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 25 17:20:17 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Mar 25 17:20:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: [saturday-bunch:1082] Perceptions of bicycle safety In-Reply-To: <002c01c9ad95$44514940$ccf3dbc0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <002c01c9ad95$44514940$ccf3dbc0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <004701c9ad97$e1508fb0$a3f1af10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> ... and finally from me, the conclusions: 1. Cycling is not very dangerous. It's at least as safe as many other common activities. 2. And it does us no good to pretend cycling is dangerous. Doing so discourages cycling and makes conditions worse for cyclists, and for society as a whole. From: south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 8:02 AM To: south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [saturday-bunch:1082] Perceptions of bicycle safety Some data in the form of a quiz, to challenge your perceptions and to be armed against those "friends" who are so concerned about your safety as a cyclist: http://www.bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/SafetyQuiz.htm Pete --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed to the "South Bank Saturday bunch" group. To post, send email to south-bank-saturday-bunch@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe? send email to south-bank-saturday-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com Options: http://groups.google.com.au/group/south-bank-saturday-bunch?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/8d355d60/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Mar 25 19:17:32 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Mar 25 19:17:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? Message-ID: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi?all, Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro Drive? Didn't they learn anything from the Sewerage debacle? ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090325/ee9866cc/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Mar 25 20:05:18 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Mar 25 20:05:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro > Drive? Yep. BCC has previously been planning to do it progressively in 100m sections but in more recent news they are going to do the whole 400m in one go to try to get the project finished by the end of financial year. > Didn't they learn anything from the Sewerage debacle? Apparently not. The word from BCC at the CBD BUG meeting yesterday was that they were considering requiring cyclists to dismount and walk through the affected section of path. IIRC the path (platform) width is 2.2m. This is expected to be in place for three or four months. The path through the Hale Street Link works is also about to reduced in width for an expected two or three months. The path width will be 2.2m, down to 1.9m in some parts. The affected length of path will vary between 20m and 80m. Apparently the HSL people are also getting antsy about behaviour of path users on their section. They've allegedly had workers involved in collisions, and cyclists ignoring traffic controllers (continuing when told to stop). The police have been called in (I've seen them around there a few times recently) and declared it a "project" of theirs, which apparently has some bureaucratic consequences requiring "results" of some sort. Thus far the police have only been issuing warnings but of course can fine/arrest/etc people if they feel the need. Ian From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Mar 25 20:21:19 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Mar 25 20:21:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? Message-ID: <39090.1238030479@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/c058c4e3/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Mar 25 23:24:36 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Mar 25 23:24:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> The traffic controllers are the problem, standing there waving and frowning. The path there is no narrower than elsewhere, and people manage it just fine. Christ, why haven't we got traffic control on the footpaths of George St? Pissants. Oh well, I'll just use Highgate Hill from now on. Speaking of the 'blitz', I pulled over this morning to take a phone call. As I did that, a rider went past, no hands, chatting away on his phone and I thought, I could be quick like him! I finished my call and went around the corner, and there he was, with cops writing out a ticket. My lucky day, but not his :D Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 11:05 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro > Drive? Yep. BCC has previously been planning to do it progressively in 100m sections but in more recent news they are going to do the whole 400m in one go to try to get the project finished by the end of financial year. > Didn't they learn anything from the Sewerage debacle? Apparently not. The word from BCC at the CBD BUG meeting yesterday was that they were considering requiring cyclists to dismount and walk through the affected section of path. IIRC the path (platform) width is 2.2m. This is expected to be in place for three or four months. The path through the Hale Street Link works is also about to reduced in width for an expected two or three months. The path width will be 2.2m, down to 1.9m in some parts. The affected length of path will vary between 20m and 80m. Apparently the HSL people are also getting antsy about behaviour of path users on their section. They've allegedly had workers involved in collisions, and cyclists ignoring traffic controllers (continuing when told to stop). The police have been called in (I've seen them around there a few times recently) and declared it a "project" of theirs, which apparently has some bureaucratic consequences requiring "results" of some sort. Thus far the police have only been issuing warnings but of course can fine/arrest/etc people if they feel the need. Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 26 00:22:36 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Mar 26 00:22:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <951543.16886.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Highgate Hill sounds like the way to go alright. When will the bridge from West End?be finished? I am?thinking, if 1-2% of?people ride to work then they can surely build a decent flyover for us on Coro Drive. ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Whittle To: Ian Lister ; "bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au" Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 2:24:36 PM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? The traffic controllers are the problem, standing there waving and frowning. The path there is no narrower than elsewhere, and people manage it just fine. Christ, why haven't we got traffic control on the footpaths of George St? Pissants. Oh well, I'll just use Highgate Hill from now on. Speaking of the 'blitz', I pulled over this morning to take a phone call. As I did that, a rider went past, no hands, chatting away on his phone and I thought, I could be quick like him! I finished my call and went around the corner, and there he was, with cops writing out a ticket. My lucky day, but not his :D Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 11:05 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro > Drive? Yep. BCC has previously been planning to do it progressively in 100m sections but in more recent news they are going to do the whole 400m in one go to try to get the project finished by the end of financial year. > Didn't they learn anything from the Sewerage debacle? Apparently not. The word from BCC at the CBD BUG meeting yesterday was that they were considering requiring cyclists to dismount and walk through the affected section of path. IIRC the path (platform) width is 2.2m. This is expected to be in place for three or four months. The path through the Hale Street Link works is also about to reduced in width for an expected two or three months. The path width will be 2.2m, down to 1.9m in some parts. The affected length of path will vary between 20m and 80m. Apparently the HSL people are also getting antsy about behaviour of path users on their section. They've allegedly had workers involved in collisions, and cyclists ignoring traffic controllers (continuing when told to stop). The police have been called in (I've seen them around there a few times recently) and declared it a "project" of theirs, which apparently has some bureaucratic consequences requiring "results" of some sort. Thus far the police have only been issuing warnings but of course can fine/arrest/etc people if they feel the need. Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090325/f2bca024/attachment.htm From entropic at iinet.net.au Thu Mar 26 00:30:52 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Thu Mar 26 00:31:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? Message-ID: <35933.1238045452@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/2d69393c/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 26 04:58:57 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Mar 26 04:59:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? Message-ID: <644003.31303.qm@web44808.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://www.publicworks.qld.gov.au/showcase/tankstbridge.cfm Come on Public Works! Spread the joy. Your 'latest' picture of the Tank Street Bridge was taken in mid-December 2008. Update please, advertise, advertise, advertise. Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 26 06:03:42 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Mar 26 06:03:52 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? In-Reply-To: <644003.31303.qm@web44808.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <644003.31303.qm@web44808.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <955088.60723.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Mich, Well today, I decided to take Peter Whittle's advice and avoided Coro Drive. I noticed the Tank St bridge is probably 60% complete. May be it will be ready soon. But I am not familiar with bike routes over that part of town. The question is after I cross over the Good Will Bridge, what's the best route to get to Uni bridge? I followed a few cyclists today, it doesn't seem too bad. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 7:58:57 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? http://www.publicworks.qld.gov.au/showcase/tankstbridge.cfm Come on Public Works! Spread the joy. Your 'latest' picture of the Tank Street Bridge was taken in mid-December 2008. Update please, advertise, advertise, advertise. Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/08a890f1/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Mar 26 06:57:29 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Mar 26 06:57:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] [World Streets Daily] Toolbox: SeeClickFix Message-ID: <20090326115724.VQDM5821.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> For those interested in IT ... or/and influencing/assisting government and other orgs to improve cycling facilities. MY........................... Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:52:20 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] [World Streets Daily] Toolbox: SeeClickFix > >A possible World Streets goal: To find one or two cities in any part >of the world that might be interested in putting this tool to work >in their community. To test its applicability and usefulness in a >range of non-US situations. Candidates? > >And now from Streetsblog: > >SeeClickFix: Is little Brother the Next Big Thing? > >The next generation of community-driven reporting of quality-of-life >issues -- like potholes, graffiti, garbage buildup, or broken street >lights -- is SeeClickFix, software that enables users to populate a >map with cases that are then forwarded to the responsible city >agency. Much like a 311 system, SeeClickFix is predicated on the >assumption that an aware and engaged public that uses technology can >get its city government to efficiently resolve problems. > >Unlike most 311 systems, the visual mapping function enables users >to see all existing complaints about a particular problem or to add >their voice to an existing case, thus promoting it to a more urgent >position in the queue. Users can create "watch areas" and receive >notices when other users identify a problem within it. Each case >generates an e-mail that is sent to the appropriate agency >responsible for fixing it. > >According to founder Ben Berkowitz, who is based in New Haven, >Connecticut, SeeClickFix got its first trial run last year when New >Haven's mayor, John DeStefano, Jr., was looking for a way to better >respond to public quality-of-life complaints and to reduce >duplication of efforts within agencies. DeStefano required the city >to respond to cases that had been generated by the public on >SeeClickFix and report the status of the cases online. > >The system was so successful that the city now uses SeeClickFix as a >proxy 311, with agencies such as the DOT, DPW, and police department >using it for non-emergency issues. DeStefano was so happy with the >service that he sent a letter to more that 100 other mayors >encouraging them to try it. > >Berkowitz says the system has now expanded beyond the local >government to utility companies and non-profits. He said they have >seen numerous cases of good Samaritans responding to complaints >without prompting, such as one carpenter who fixed several park >benches he located on the site. > >"That's the beauty of open source," says Berkowitz. "At first, we >thought of calling it Little Brother, like 'Little Brother is >Watching,' but then we realized we needed to be a bit more kind to government." > >Berkowitz explains that SeeClickFix often coordinates with >newspapers, such as those in Boston, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh, >to promote the software to the public, then advocates for the city >to try responding to cases and noting the progress online. When the >Philadelphia Inquirer added the SeeClickFix widget to its site, >Philadelphia 311 soon started responding online to newly-generated cases. > >In San Francisco, Phil Bronstein, editor-at-large of Hearst >Newspapers Division, is a big fan of SeeClickFix and is planning to >use the mapping widget on SFGate.com. Kevin Skaggs, executive >producer of SFGate, said a collaboration with SeeClickFix has been >in the works since Bronstein blogged about them last year, and that >SFGate will use the widget in a few months on its new hyper-local >Chronicle sites. > >The new Chron sites will resemble the New York Times' recently >launched local blogs, where SeeClickFix is already a presence. As of >now, the Times has incorporated the map widget into the New Jersey >edition of "The Local," which covers Maplewood, Millburn and South >Orange. Berkowitz hopes the Times' Brooklyn blog, targeted at >readers in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, will follow suit. If that >happens, he sees city residents using SeeClickFix as a tool for >broad scale community improvement. > >"We know that it can be much bigger than 311 in New York," says >Berkowitz. "It's a really great method for getting a dialogue started." > >Posted: 25 Mar 2009 12:01 PM PDT >With reporting by Brad Aaron. > >-- >Posted By Eric Britton (France) to >World >Streets Daily at 3/26/2009 10:51:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/f05621e9/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Mar 26 10:21:26 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Mar 26 10:21:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? In-Reply-To: <955088.60723.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <644003.31303.qm@web44808.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <955088.60723.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c9ae26$889890e0$99c9b2a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Anthony, the fastest way from the Goodwill to the Green Bridge is via Vulture St and Annerley Road, past the Boggo Road jail. It?s only about 3-4 km to UQ I think, less than 15 mins. Or you can go a bit further and head along the river around west end and Highgate hill, if you want some extra distance. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 9:04 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? Hi Mich, Well today, I decided to take Peter Whittle's advice and avoided Coro Drive. I noticed the Tank St bridge is probably 60% complete. May be it will be ready soon. But I am not familiar with bike routes over that part of town. The question is after I cross over the Good Will Bridge, what's the best route to get to Uni bridge? I followed a few cyclists today, it doesn't seem too bad. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 7:58:57 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? http://www.publicworks.qld.gov.au/showcase/tankstbridge.cfm Come on Public Works! Spread the joy. Your 'latest' picture of the Tank Street Bridge was taken in mid-December 2008. Update please, advertise, advertise, advertise. Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090327/8b123c76/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Mar 26 13:57:22 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Mar 26 13:57:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? In-Reply-To: <000001c9ae26$889890e0$99c9b2a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <644003.31303.qm@web44808.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <955088.60723.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000001c9ae26$889890e0$99c9b2a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <833094.45543.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Pete, I did eventually made it to Annerley Rd. Getting out of Southbank and on to Vulture and Stanley Rd looks very busy yesterday. It wasn't too bad as long as we wait for the lights where Vulture and Stanley intersect. There were at least 3 other cyclists waiting and so I just watch them :-). Like they say, when in Rome do what the Romans do. Being in Corinda, I could have rode down the Corso too but I wanted to know what it is like to ride across to St Lucia. I think I need to try out different routes more often :-). Still I can't stand the treatment we are getting over Coro Drive. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Whittle To: Anthony Lee ; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 27 March, 2009 1:21:26 AM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? Anthony, the fastest way from the Goodwill to the Green Bridge is via Vulture St and Annerley Road, past the Boggo Road jail. It?s only about 3-4 km to UQ I think, less than 15 mins. Or you can go a bit further and head along the river around west end and Highgate hill, if you want some extra distance. Pete From:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 9:04 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? Hi Mich, Well today, I decided to take Peter Whittle's advice and avoided Coro Drive. I noticed the Tank St bridge is probably 60% complete. May be it will be ready soon. But I am not familiar with bike routes over that part of town. The question is after I cross over the Good Will Bridge, what's the best route to get to Uni bridge? I followed a few cyclists today, it doesn't seem too bad. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From:mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 7:58:57 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Tank Street Bridge progress? http://www.publicworks.qld.gov.au/showcase/tankstbridge.cfm Come on Public Works! Spread the joy. Your 'latest' picture of the Tank Street Bridge was taken in mid-December 2008. Update please, advertise, advertise, advertise. Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ________________________________ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now.. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090326/99f4592e/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Mar 26 19:19:49 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Mar 26 19:20:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: Re: [BFA-Oz] Great safety presentation Message-ID: <20090327001952.QVCN23185.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi ... The following report prepared for the "Safe Speed Interest Group" should be of interest ... as may be the following comments. In relation to the comments, it is worth noting that BCC has finally after many years agreed to reduce the speed limit in the CBD of Brisbane ... but NOT on what have been the two most dangerous roads in the CBD in terms of both pedestrian and vehicle collisions. MY.................. Subject: Re: [BFA-Oz] Great safety presentation >Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:11:50 +1000 > >Hi ... and thanks for the info Paul, > >The full report to this group (the "Safe Speed >Interest Group" - it does not appear to have a >website etc) can be found at >http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/attachments/o31705.pdf > >It is 2.33MB ... and it is well worth reading ...! > >What is interesting is seeing the selection of references ...! > >However, this work, though admirable, is yet >another in a line of documents which do little >to ADVANCE (as distinct from update) the policy >position/problem namely that Australia has >possibly the most dangerous urban and suburban >roads in the (equivalent) world for pedestrians >(using the PCA "Pedestrian Charter" inclusive definition) and for cyclists. > >The dangers are hidden by a low KSI outcome that >does not take account of low or varying exposure >... but make the roads appear safe from a statistical/data perspective. > >The dangers are hidden by the road UNsafety >education/indoctrination ... and THAT continues to this day ... unquestioned. > >Well almost unquestioned. > >The other problem is the trend in Australian >policy processes towards (i) re-inventing >history and (ii) relying or requiring the need >for "proof" in circumstances where evidence is >almost inevitably problematic and where >evaluated trial-demonstration projects can >provide far better supportive evidence. > >By the reference to history, I mean conveniently >"forgetting" by way of just two examples, (i) >the claim for 40km/h that has been on the books >in Victoria in particular for some 30 or more >years by way of Alan Parker and Bicycle Victoria >in its earlier guise and (ii) the claim for a >"safe urban speed limit" by the BFA nearly 15 years ago. > >At the time of adoption of the "50km/h in >residential streets" speed limit which in some >areas/states morphed into "50km/h except on >signed main roads", some state road (safety) >authorities appeared to quite deliberately make >no mention of 40km/h or 30km/h ... as if to >imply that 50km/h was "safe". That too was around 15 years ago. > >Of course, 50km/h wasn't safe ... but Bicycle >Victoria and Vic Roads already knew that from >data extracted by BV from VicRoads data in the early 1990s. > >To that I can also add my own efforts including >promotion of the "Vision Zero" concept by way of >a paper to ATRF 2001 which can be found on the >web at http://www.patrec.org/atrf/papers/2001/1444_Yeates%20(2001).pdf > >So there is a well documented chronology of >informed claims for safer speed limits yet these >appear to get no mention in this report. Why so >little of the history? Surely the history isn't >thought to be well understood by current decision makers? > >What is also of interest is the selection of >examples and in particular, those that are not selected. > >One not included is the well known city of Graz >in Austria. In this field, it is well known >because it adopted TEMPO 30 as its default speed >limit in the early to mid 1990s so effectively >"every street (and road) is 30km/h" except where signed otherwise. > >That was 15 or more years ago. > >Graz is well known to those with a knowledge of >the issues of urban speed management. It is the >world's first and possibly only city to adopt >this strategy and it has worked well ... it has >been well evaluated and not just from a safety >perspective but also mode shift, environmental >impacts, etc. Yet it does not seem to appear in this report? > >Why not? > >The same goes for the City of Unley in Adelaide >South Australia which gets a mention but the >most recent reference seems to be to 1998. >That's 11 years ago. Nothing else done since? If not, why not? > >And similarly for projects such as "Supportive >Environments" which is another significant step >in the history ... as is the >perception-education emphasis of, for example, >Werner Brog and derivations such as TravelSmart. > >However in many ways, many projects though well >intentioned, failed to challenge orthodox road >management and paradoxically, some therefore >encouraged ideas of an independent network >without considering (i) how or if that might be >possible and (ii) whether challenging the >orthodoxy might be more beneficial, even by way >of smaller scale trials and demonstrations. The >results of these and similar projects were >beneficial but the roads remained the problem. > >It is therefore good to see the "safe urban >speed limit" issue back on the agenda (well >hopefully) yet there remains a nagging concern >that Australian policy processes require these >phases or cycles of interest followed by moving >to other issues ... until the cycle can "safely" >be revisited ... but with little or no change, >iterative or incremental over time. > > From a policy analysis perspective, very little > has changed in the recent 20-30 years in > Australia in regard to road safety for > pedestrians and cyclists if that is viewed as > safer roads for use by more pedestrians and > more cyclists "of all ages and abilities". And > that does not include outcomes such as > "reduced" reliance on cars ... whatever that might mean in practice. > >So will this revisit by the Safe Speed Interest Group be more successful? > >We certainly must hope so. But thought needs to >be given to how success should be measured ... >and by whom? What might be used as evidence? > >Also the questions of "why 40, why not 30?" keep >emerging and for some writers, supportive >evidence seems to be elusive yet there are >detailed examples including Graz and Unley. > >One illustration is perhaps the notion that >according to Australia's road managers, a >"shared zone" needs (perhaps must) have a 10km/h speed limit ...! > >One wonders therefore what those same road >managers would suggest as the speed limit for >the well known European "pedestrian priority" >zone were it to be allowed on Australian roads? > >Surely not 5km/h? > >Although it gets mention by way of example, >there seems to be no detailed examination and/or >questioning of why we have adopted the current >speed limit "standards" and more particularly, >why 10km/h was chosen for "shared zones"? And >what about the effect of the 85% (85th >percentile) compliance "rule" as speeds get lower? > >In case it is not widely known, pedestrian >priority zones in Europe have speed limits of up >to 30km/h ... and this is safe mainly because >the onus is directly on the motorist (and >cyclist) to give priority to pedestrians. This >aspect of the law and Australian Road Rules >needs far more discussion and detailed inclusion in reports such as this. > >The fact we have amongst the safest roads in the >(equivalent) world in terms of numbers of >pedestrians and cyclists KSI seems to be a >product of 13-14 years of school and/or >community education that roads are very >dangerous for what are sometimes called "soft >people". It appears it is still not acceptable >to ask why ... or to suggest answers to that question. > >It is worth also noting that 100 years ago, many >if not most of current main roads in urban and >suburban areas were in place but were safe for >pedestrians ... and up to say 40-50 years ago, >they were also safe for surprisingly large numbers of cyclists. > >Not much has been changed other than how the roads are managed. > >THAT can be changed ... and indeed as elsewhere can be reversed. > >It just seems highly problematic to ignore the >history ... indeed some suggest that ignoring >history is one way of ensuring the same issues will occur again. > >That IS a real concern ...! > >The report is however a useful update ... and >certainly deserves careful and critical reading >from the full version by anyone at all interested in this vital issue. > >But it is a brave challenge to suggest that >little rigorous research has addressed the main >study question (see page 5) ... but perhaps that is exactly what is intended? > >In the interim, and taking the benefits of >slower speed limits as a given, it is perhaps >useful to consider and remember not only the >KSIs as measured for road safety but to add >those who have suffered from all the other >impacts that occur due to urban speed limits >that are too high ... and wonder how many lives >have been lost or impacted in the last 20-30 >years since this issue has been on the policy cycle. > >Coincidentally that is a little less time than >when I recall my being able (and allowed) to >walk or cycle to my local suburban primary >school where perhaps hundreds of bicycles >created what may then have even been considered >something of a nuisance ... yet today there is barely one bike ...! > >"Why is it so?" > >More to the point, and this is the real issue >rarely addressed except by those of us >privileged to have experienced it, "what would >it be like if 30 or 40km/h applied not 50 or 60km/h?" > >Michael Yeates ................. > > >At 08:50 PM 23/03/2009, Paul Magarey wrote: > >>The human tolerance to injury by a car is exceeded if the vehicle is >>travelling at more than 30 km/h. While most unprotected road users >>survive if hit by a car travelling at 30 km/h, the majority are killed >>if hit by a car travelling at 50 km/h (WHO 2008). >> >>This point is from a great presentation that can be found at >> >>http://www.saferoadsconference.com/presentations/Garrard_J_Tue_1330_BR3.pdf >> >>Cheers, >> >>Paul >>Paul Magarey >>Project Manager >>Bicycle Federation of Australia >> >>************************************************* >>phone: 02 6248 5988 >>mobile: 0448 269 092 >>skype: Paul Magarey >>email: projectmanager@bfa.asn.au >>web: www.bfa.asn.au >>post: PO Box 499 Civic Square ACT 2608 >>************************************************** > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** >?..but global oil production itself is likely to >peak, maybe as early as 2006. But more >conventionally 2010 ? 2015.? ?It is also certain >that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere >near the cost of not being ready on time.? Hon. >Alannah MacTiernan, WA Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 >see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > >Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > >BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested >in bicycle advocacy at a state and national >level in Australia. It is an initiative of the >Bicycle Federation of >Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views >expressed on this list do not necessarily >represent those of the BFA, and should not be >interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. >To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com >Queries, complaints and suggestions to >Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au >--^---------------------------------------------------------------- From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Mar 26 20:41:35 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Mar 26 20:42:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <49CC2ECF.3090803@teegee.com.au> The thing that annoyed me about the QPS getting involved down there, was that they had two police with two separate cars allocated to the job. What a waste of resources; those guys are within easy walking distance from PHQ at Roma St, they don't need two fully resourced police vehicles tied up on that job. They don't need all the armoury and training, why not send down a couple of junior constables on foot or those bicycle officers? I had spoken to the Police just a week before about the lack of compliance with the 40kph speed limit on the road through the work site. I pointed out that 99% of motorists still travelled through at 60 or more. I suspected that blind eyes were being turned in order to keep things moving for political reasons. The QPS said that they could not do any enforcement there for a number of reasons and sure enough as the two officers just leaned on a fence down there the traffic behind them whizzed by at 60 in the 40 zone and they did nothing. Ian, did you do anything further with your tale of the Police riding across the pedestrian crossing to confirm just what their stance is on cyclists and crossings? Perhaps cyclists will not be booked if they ride on the edge?? I think it would have been a very nice post bike week article for the local paper to raise the issue and perhaps give some strength to the argument for a ride-over facility at Moggill Rd on the bikeway. kim Ian Lister wrote: > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >> Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro >> Drive? > > Yep. BCC has previously been planning to do it progressively in 100m > sections but in more recent news they are going to do the whole 400m > in one go to try to get the project finished by the end of financial > year. > >> Didn't they learn anything from the Sewerage debacle? > > Apparently not. The word from BCC at the CBD BUG meeting yesterday was > that they were considering requiring cyclists to dismount and walk > through the affected section of path. IIRC the path (platform) width > is 2.2m. This is expected to be in place for three or four months. > > The path through the Hale Street Link works is also about to reduced > in width for an expected two or three months. The path width will be > 2.2m, down to 1.9m in some parts. The affected length of path will > vary between 20m and 80m. > > Apparently the HSL people are also getting antsy about behaviour of > path users on their section. They've allegedly had workers involved in > collisions, and cyclists ignoring traffic controllers (continuing when > told to stop). The police have been called in (I've seen them around > there a few times recently) and declared it a "project" of theirs, > which apparently has some bureaucratic consequences requiring > "results" of some sort. Thus far the police have only been issuing > warnings but of course can fine/arrest/etc people if they feel the need. > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From office at cyclingpromotion.com.au Thu Mar 26 21:03:27 2009 From: office at cyclingpromotion.com.au (Cycling Promotion Fund) Date: Thu Mar 26 21:03:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Perceptions of bicycle safety In-Reply-To: <200903260106.n2Q161tT022699@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200903260106.n2Q161tT022699@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <001801c9ae80$38364f20$a8a2ed60$@com.au> If safety concerns are an issue, you may want to produce the Cycling Promotion Fund's Cycling and Safety Fact Sheet. It starts with "Over the past 25 years there has been a decrease in the number of cycling fatalities in Australia" despite cycling increasing in popularity in recent years. Plus there's a fabulous quote: British research has found that the gain of 'life years' through improved fitness among people who regularly cycle is "about 20 times greater that the loss of 'life years' through cycle fatalities". The CPF has a range of fact sheets available to download or order. http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/resources/cycling-faqs/ Happy cycling, Kathy Kathy Brunning Executive Assistant, Cycling Promotion Fund PO Box 3052 Auburn Victoria 3123 Ph 03-9818-5400 Fax 03-9818-4535 www.rideabike.com.au An initiative of the Bicycling Industry in Australia From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Mar 26 21:12:49 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Mar 26 21:13:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <49CC2ECF.3090803@teegee.com.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> <49CC2ECF.3090803@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <20090327120304.M1280@singha.lister.id.au> On Fri, 27 Mar 2009, kim wrote: > Ian, did you do anything further with your tale of the Police riding across > the pedestrian crossing to confirm just what their stance is on cyclists and > crossings? No. However some folks at CBD BUG were also a bit miffed at the enforcement on Moggill Rd last week, so there'll be a letter to the QPS raising the issue. The observation that officers also cycle across these crossings might be mentioned, but won't be a focal point. On the way back from that CBD BUG meeting I spotted the bike cops again, this time cycling across the crossing at the Regatta: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing2.jpg I get the distinct impression that they think that cycling across crossings is fine and having to walk across them is silly. Just like the rest of us. Ian From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Sun Mar 29 05:48:55 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Sun Mar 29 05:49:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090329204355.K1710@singha.lister.id.au> BTW did anybody on this list witness the police issuing warnings at the crossing of Moggill Rd a couple of weeks back, or know anything else about it? I'm particularly wondering whether they were concerned about the zebra crossings on one or both of the slip lanes, or the signalised crossing of Moggill Rd itself, or all three. Thanks, Ian P.S. a pic of the intersection in question is here, for anybody not familiar with it: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Moggill_Road_Western_Freeway_intersection.jpg On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Ian Lister wrote: > This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another cyclist > that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written warnings to cyclists > cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on the Western Freeway. Did anybody > here witness that? Given that crossing actually has lean bars on it I had > assumed that amounted to tacit approval of cycling across there (what else > are they for?!) even though it is of course a violation of section 248 of the > road rules. > > Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of the > breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked foot crossing on > North Quay: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg > > Seems like some pretty mixed messages? > > Ian > From stephen.viller at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 02:02:09 2009 From: stephen.viller at gmail.com (Stephen Viller) Date: Mon Mar 30 02:02:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090329204355.K1710@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <20090329204355.K1710@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: Hi Ian, On 29/03/2009, at 8:48 pm, Ian Lister wrote: > BTW did anybody on this list witness the police issuing warnings at > the crossing of Moggill Rd a couple of weeks back, or know anything > else about it? I'm particularly wondering whether they were > concerned about the zebra crossings on one or both of the slip > lanes, or the signalised crossing of Moggill Rd itself, or all three. > My partner witnessed it on several days during bike week. From memory she said it was the zebra crossing they were concerned with, which she does not cycle across because she comes up Moggill Road from Chapel Hill and turns straight off the road onto the bikeway via what used to be the exit to the Western Freeway (far right hand side of the photo below). Stephen. > P.S. a pic of the intersection in question is here, for anybody not > familiar with it: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Moggill_Road_Western_Freeway_intersection.jpg > > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Ian Lister wrote: >> This morning at the Ride to Work Day breakfast I heard from another >> cyclist that on Tuesday morning the police were issuing written >> warnings to cyclists cycling across the crossing of Moggill Rd on >> the Western Freeway. Did anybody here witness that? Given that >> crossing actually has lean bars on it I had assumed that amounted >> to tacit approval of cycling across there (what else are they >> for?!) even though it is of course a violation of section 248 of >> the road rules. >> >> Imagine my further surprise (OK, so I'm naive) when, at the end of >> the breakfast, three bike cops happily cycled across the marked >> foot crossing on North Quay: >> >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Police_on_crossing.jpg >> >> Seems like some pretty mixed messages? >> >> Ian >> > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Mar 30 07:13:40 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Mar 30 07:14:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? Message-ID: <783328.25980.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I have a black R900 from 1997. It has an R500 rear wheel plus Shimano Flight Deck. How much do you think I can get for it? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090330/be03da7c/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Mon Mar 30 20:52:57 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Mon Mar 30 20:53:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? In-Reply-To: <783328.25980.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You mean from a collector of antiques?? :) Put it on eBay and see whether it gets into double figures. The na?ve market is the one to go for. Cheers, J. On 30/3/09 10:13 PM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a black R900 from 1997. It has an R500 rear wheel plus Shimano Flight > Deck. > > How much do you think I can get for it? > > Thank you > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > > Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised > for Yahoo!7. Get it now. > 3oDMTJxbnQwdTJhBF9zAzIxNDIwMjU2NTkEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzQ > 0OAR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=11k6t9t1c/** > http://downloads.yahoo> . > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/ccee0d7f/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Mon Mar 30 22:43:02 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Mon Mar 30 22:43:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? Message-ID: <20272.1238470982@people.net.au> If that is the case then I should probably abandon my plan to sell the old Centurion frame that I got in 1992 - the one that wasn't painted; had polished alloy lugs and aluminium tubing that was the same size as normal steel tubing; and was superglued together. Then again, if there is anyone on the list that is after a 54cm frame like that with a weight limit of 77kg - drop me a line :) On Tue 31/03/09 01:52 , John Nightingale adsliif2@iinet.net.au sent: You mean from a collector of antiques?? :) Put it on eBay and see whether it gets into double figures. The na?ve market is the one to go for. Cheers, J. On 30/3/09 10:13 PM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: Hi all, I have a black R900 from 1997. It has an R500 rear wheel plus Shimano Flight Deck. How much do you think I can get for it? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ . ------------------------- _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [3] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld [4] This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Links: ------ [1] http://au.rd.yahoo.com/search/ie8/mailtagline/* Message-ID: Now that Centurion sounds a bit more like a collector?s piece. Not many builders tried lugging aluminium, and soon abandoned their attempts. Is it still not painted, nor anodised? Hasn?t been eaten by salt winds? I wonder if the weight limit might have to be reduced due to age of superglue:) J On 31/3/09 1:43 PM, "Matt" wrote: > If that is the case then I should probably abandon my plan to sell the old > Centurion frame that I got in 1992 - the one that wasn't painted; had polished > alloy lugs and aluminium tubing that was the same size as normal steel tubing; > and was superglued together. > > Then again, if there is anyone on the list that is after a 54cm frame like > that with a weight limit of 77kg - drop me a line :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/c2c86eef/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Mon Mar 30 23:04:47 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Mon Mar 30 23:05:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? Message-ID: <36942.1238472287@people.net.au> "...if the weight limit might have to be reduced due to age of superglue..." Which is precisely why it is hanging on the wall and not being ridden :) (also taking into account that I am built more like a track cyclist than a lightweight roadie.... Making gorilla biscuits is not my favourite game in the world - especially at speed!) Not painted. Not anodised. On Tue 31/03/09 03:54 , John Nightingale adsliif2@iinet.net.au sent: Now that Centurion sounds a bit more like a collector?s piece. Not many builders tried lugging aluminium, and soon abandoned their attempts. Is it still not painted, nor anodised? Hasn?t been eaten by salt winds? I wonder if the weight limit might have to be reduced due to age of superglue:) J On 31/3/09 1:43 PM, "Matt" wrote: If that is the case then I should probably abandon my plan to sell the old Centurion frame that I got in 1992 - the one that wasn't painted; had polished alloy lugs and aluminium tubing that was the same size as normal steel tubing; and was superglued together. Then again, if there is anyone on the list that is after a 54cm frame like that with a weight limit of 77kg - drop me a line :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e18135e6/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Mar 30 23:49:03 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Mar 30 23:49:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? In-Reply-To: <36942.1238472287@people.net.au> References: <36942.1238472287@people.net.au> Message-ID: <833066.32690.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for the really good (not) suggestions. I need the money. Anyway, I have never sold anything on ebay and someone on another list happen to ask for a roadie. My wife taught me a good Cantonese saying for just such an occasion, it is a pity none of you speak Cantonese :-). Oh well :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Matt To: matt@people.net.au; Anthony Lee ; BIQ ; John Nightingale Sent: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009 2:04:47 PM Subject: Re: Re: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? "...if the weight limit might have to be reduced due to age of superglue..." Which is precisely why it is hanging on the wall and not being ridden :) (also taking into account that I am built more like a track cyclist than a lightweight roadie.... Making gorilla biscuits is not my favourite game in the world - especially at speed!) Not painted. Not anodised. On Tue 31/03/09 03:54 , John Nightingale adsliif2@iinet.net.au sent: Now that Centurion sounds a bit more like a collector?s piece. Not many builders tried lugging aluminium, and soon abandoned their attempts. Is it still not painted, nor anodised? Hasn?t been eaten by salt winds? I wonder if the weight limit might have to be reduced due to age of superglue:) J On 31/3/09 1:43 PM, "Matt" wrote: If that is the case then I should probably abandon my plan to sell the old Centurion frame that I got in 1992 - the one that wasn't painted; had polished alloy lugs and aluminium tubing that was the same size as normal steel tubing; and was superglued together. Then again, if there is anyone on the list that is after a 54cm frame like that with a weight limit of 77kg - drop me a line :) Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090330/b03ad05f/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Mar 31 01:16:03 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Mar 31 01:16:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] cycling legally Message-ID: <20090331061542.BZAM28907.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi ... Two related issues ... 1. re changes to use of Coro Drive aka Bicentennial "shared footpath" ... Late this morning there was a police car parked at the top of the Cribb Street ramp ... with a police officer in it ... possibly staying cool with ac and motor running. I wondered if the police were on the "shared footpath" this morning? 2. re preferred routes from CBD to the inner west ... and beyond The fact that BCC has NEVER tried to implement ANY OTHER ROUTE other than Coro Drive over at least a 10-12 year or longer period raises the question as to what routes cyclists choose to use to get to and from (or beyond) the CBD and say Toowong-Bardon (noting there is a large gap between the CBD and that part of Waterworks Road with either T lanes or shared footpath, there is absolutely nothing comparable until the inner end of the Western Freeway and connection to ... Coro Drive "shared footpath"). For example, although I rarely bother cycling to the city on the odd occasions I go to the CBD now, I regularly used to use George Street then Roma and either Little Roma or the top end of Milton to get to beyond Cribb Street on the Coro Drive "shared footpath" at night. This area is still a bit of a cycling "black hole" esp now the bits of bus lane have been removed. At one stage, BCC was very nearly convinced to implement a marked footpath + road route from Cribb to Roma then a choice to use Countess to get to Normanby and Kelvin Grove or Roma to get to/from the CBD. I say very nearly ... it failed because BCC did not want to mark any CBD footpaths as shared footpaths. Yet it now does this ... if only temporarily. Why not permanently if the roads are so bad and nothing else can or will be done? Is Adelaide Street the main corridor eg to and/or from work for cyclists working in for example, Ann Street? What about those working in Queen and/or below Elizabeth Street? Is every street in the Brisbane CBD (potentially and desirably) a cycling street ... aside from Turbot and Ann which remain 60km/h although likely to be 50km/h in the near future? IF the BCC is serious about improving ie reducing the impact of traffic esp through traffic, then virtually all of the CBD streets should be returned to two way flow - ie not one way as at present. No point in expensive contraflow or footpath facilities ... indeed no need for them ... if the real intention is to reduce the convenience for motorists of in effect rat-running through the CBD rather than staying on the main through traffic routes. It follows then that as the CBD changes dramatically with a 40km/h speed limit (and it will), it is important to NOT have roads with other than "Share the Road" status for several reasons. First IF the 40km/h is to be effective, then separate cycling will not only not be necessary, it will be a waste of scarce resources better spent where more important. Second, IF the 40km/h IS effective, then any "safety + convenience" benefits will be lost or confounded if "special" cycling facilities are provided. One of London's local authorities with the fastest growth in numbers cycling has been at the forefront of a "no special facilities" campaign based on slower speed limits, "sharing the road", and resultant reduced traffic (to some extent caused by the other strategies) ... no reason why we should not adopt similar approach to Brisbane CBD ... as distinct from relying on special facilities despite the 40km/h being "safe". Clearly if there currently are routes that are preferred, it is why the others are not preferred that is of interest ... assuming not a large proportion of CBD cyclists cycle on the footpaths. Feel free to respond on or off list. We sought 40km/h during the early period of Jim Soorley's mayoralty ... and a number of times before that ... so getting it right this time is important ... as a model for the rest of Brisbane if not Queensland if not beyond ... and with interest from around the world with a focus on the BCC CityBikes and the reduced speed limit, its important to get it right. MY..................... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/87e1eeee/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Mar 31 07:23:09 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Mar 31 07:23:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] How much should I sell my Cannondale (1997 model) for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <931518.13267.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks John, Ken and everyone else that have responded. I didn't think of Ebay because it is 1997 model. But I took John's suggestion and find a R800 (good condition) having a current bid of $750. My bike might not be as good a condition but I have a new rear wheel R500, new Sora shifters and almost new flight deck. I reckon $700 so pretty reasonable. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/02bd7ade/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Tue Mar 31 18:48:51 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Tue Mar 31 18:49:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba Message-ID: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the Toowoomba Range. I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are well versed in the life on two wheels. (Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of many sirens). Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing - it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes. My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will semi-respect your rights on the road! The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for sport - especially if they are "hogging the road". Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e9a2591c/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Mar 31 19:11:54 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Mar 31 19:12:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba In-Reply-To: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> References: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> Message-ID: <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Tue Mar 31 20:31:31 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Mar 31 20:32:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba In-Reply-To: <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> My thought was, have you sent this to your mates in the police, Matt? Might be appropriate. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 10:12 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland.