From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Jul 1 01:50:07 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Jul 1 01:50:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cyclist-Crash-Factsheet.pdf (application/pdf Object) Message-ID: Some cyclist crash stats from NZ. http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Cyclist-Crash-Factsheet. pdf R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090701/6c0157b7/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Jul 1 02:40:09 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Jul 1 02:41:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Department for Transport Driving Challenge Message-ID: This is not as easy as it looks http://www.dft.gov.uk/drivingchallenge/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090701/891c95ff/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Jul 2 14:21:37 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Jul 2 14:21:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BCC Cycling plans Message-ID: <691398.51650.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Have everyone seen these two links? http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2307 http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/bccwr/plans_and_strategies/documents/active_transport_strategy_implementation_investment.pdf Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090702/a86160db/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Jul 3 01:33:00 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Jul 3 01:33:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BCC Cycling plans In-Reply-To: <691398.51650.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <691398.51650.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090703063254.JWPX12022.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Anthony, Good stuff to know about ... but don't get too excited ... at least not too soon ...! In the first link, the current ie BATS cycling target is 8% mode share by 2016 ... same as it was in the "Bicycle Brisbane Plan" ... 8% by 2000 and 14% by 2005. But did BCC ever disclose how close it got to either of these targets? Does BCC really want to achieve these targets or are they just there for us to celebrate when in super-optimistic mode? In the second link, it is worth noting that the Connell Wagner study was completed by 2001 ... yet why was it not then applied? And if it was applied, consider/question how close to the 2000 and 2005 targets did we actually achieve ... including as evidence of the reliability of the assumptions now in BATS? MY............. At 05:21 AM 3/07/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Hi all, > >Have everyone seen these two links? > >http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2307 > > >http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/bccwr/plans_and_strategies/documents/active_transport_strategy_implementation_investment.pdf > > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > >Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. >Show >me how. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2215 - Release Date: >07/02/09 18:06:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090703/ec333e38/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Jul 7 18:06:31 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Jul 7 18:06:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Helmets again Message-ID: <20090707230606.CMFL1990.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> FYI ... An overseas "voice" ... from Paris ...! MY.................... Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:58:35 +0200 >Subject: [LotsLessCars] Helmets again > > >Dear 2 wheeled friends, > >You will learn little or nothing from this I am sure, but if you are >for moment stone bored while waiting for your bag to appear on an >endless conveyor belt in an airport, and have your iPhone on line, >you might wish to pass those empty minutes with this two minute >podcast of your friend britton carrying on about helmets and city >bikes for a Melbourne program "Along for the Ride : on. - >http://www.mediafire.com/file/emti5ztyzm1 > > >You may recall that we went into this at some detail together last >year with a number of informed international colleagues. The >reference is >www.ecoplan.org/library/helmets.pdf >I intend to update and turn this into a piece for World Streets >shortly. So if you have comments you might wish to add, now is a >great time to have them. > >Kind regards, > >Eric Britton > >| Editor | >World Streets | >The New Mobility Agenda | Paris | >+331 4326 1323 | Skype newmobility > > > > >__._,_.___ > > >"LotsLessCars in Cities" at http://lotslesscars.org >Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. >World Car/Free Days at http://worldcarfreeday.com >To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com >Also check out New Mobility Agenda at >http://newmobility.org >Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org >Or call via Skype to "newmobility' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090708/0786ef49/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 21:17:26 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Tue Jul 7 21:17:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Sylvan Rd issues.... Message-ID: I have been banging on about the state of repair of the pavement and markings down on Sylvan Rd and gradually things get fixed but seemingly in Council's own time frame. There seems to be little sense of urgency with what are really issues of public safety, particularly that of cyclists. I set up an example for Campbell Newman since he had told me that Council was very concerned about fixing any of these issues promptly. I put in a complaint about a number of bike symbols that had been dug up by contractors and never replaced and had been like that for years. I then kept a track of my efforts to have those repaired by complaints to Council. It was about nine months since I started my complaints and had had several follow ups but still nothing had been done. I then sent all of that history to Mayor Newman to show that what I was experiencing was nothing like what he was espousing. One of his people then wrote back and said the fixes had been made some time back and so I had to go down there and make photographs of the damaged symbols to prove it, which I duly sent to him to prove it was not the case. Embarrassed about all of this, Mayor Newman has assigned their head maintenance man to sort it out with me. Richard Mathews is their head Maintenance chap and he has offered to meet with me on site to discuss the issues with a view to fixing the immediate ones but more importantly to figure out why a complaint like this was not acted on more promptly and just what went wrong. I know that many of the issues down there are design related and so I am not too sure what benefits will entail but hopefully his section is responsible for looking after worn bike symbols and awareness signs etc. Sylvan road suffers from a number of those problems also. The limit/stop lines to stop cars nosing out into the bike lane at the intersections were virtually non existent at Landsborough Tce and green has been added on just one intersection to make it more obvious to motorists that there is a bike lane there. Bike lane pavement symbols are supposed to be placed near these intersections too but some are missing. It would be beneficial if some of the narrow no-standing zones were painted with yellow no standing lines on the kerb as they are in most other places to stop motorists parking and blocking the whole bike lane unnecessarily but I am not certain if that is going to be something that the maintenance people get involved in. They have this real purchaser/provider mentality within Council and so there is a lot of buck passing (quite literally). Often damage to pavement is the result of contractors and I want to get Council more accountable for auditing the contractors works and holding them responsible for fixes and safety. Some of you may recall the large smooth metal plate placed in the middle of this busy bikeway by a contractor with zero concern for cyclist safety. Most would be familiar with the gauntlet of sunken holes in the pavement from these same works. I am hoping to extend my concerns and issues beyond Sylvan Rd and perhaps raise some of the issues that face us around the corner at the bus depot. Some of you may have seen the new green strip they have placed through there as a result of some lobbying by cyclists to use the bus thoroughfare there. It was a long time coming and I have not seen how well it will work in its final configuration. I do note that they have not used the same green treatment that they use on other roads, it seems to be just flat green paint, perhaps the final coat was not done when I last checked. In the meantime the yellow bike symbols in the car park which also serve to identify the gaps in the speed bumps for night time travel have been virtually non existent for several years despite pleas to have them re-marked and promises by Council that they would be done. I will also see if Richard's section looks after park maintenance and if so will raise some issues of damage by mowers on the recreational tracks in these parks. Does anyone have any specific issues to add to the list on Sylvan Rd that I should raise? I shall probably meet up with Richard some time next week. k . _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090707/c695591c/attachment.htm From museduca at bigpond.net.au Wed Jul 8 12:23:47 2009 From: museduca at bigpond.net.au (Dave Mc) Date: Wed Jul 8 12:24:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Sylvan Rd issues and others In-Reply-To: <200907081700.n68H0BDF026910@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200907081700.n68H0BDF026910@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <676E6D81B5FF458EA7202FDD441F020A@acer6dff78d94b> Kim- my field of cycling endeavour is long way removed from yours as I lobby way out bush on the Bicentennial National Trail (well trekking endeavour really- just that I happen to be a cyclist and I trek on a bicycle) but I liaise often with Councils too and I can relate to what you are doing. All the bean counting of your representations over the last few months would have been frustrating but at least now it has borne fruit as there is good opportunity for meaningful dialogue and follow-up and I wish you all the best- this might be the opportunity to address many cycling issues and see some positive outcomes. Anyone who would like to cycle in some different country check out the BNT at www.nationaltrail.com.au- in Qld starts around Killarney through Condamine Gorge, Moogerah Dam, crosses highway near Aratula, wends its way past Rosevale Hotel and over Little Liverpool Range to Thornton- all of that is pleasant easy cycling apart from The Head descent/ascent. Some gorgeous scenery. After Thornton gets more rugged as it finally heads up Ma Ma Ck before wending its way along the Toowoomba Range, Ravensbourne, Blackbutt, Nanango, up the Linville-Elgin Vale Rd past Mt Stanley crossing the infant Brisbane River countless times, Elgin Vale, Manumbar, Kilkivan and on up north to Cooktown finally. Much of it in Qld is cycle-able and great scenery. As well as the regular Guidebooks available through the BNT office we are now writing up Weekenders- short scenic stretches near towns- Kilkivan, Paradise Dam (near Bundaberg) and Mt Perry are the three Weekenders currently in print (email me about those- not on website yet). Meantime Kim- keep hammering away and keep us posted mate Dave Dave McLeod Hervey Bay 0439 532 737 Director BNT Board Qld Book Manager www.nationaltrail.com.au Message: 2 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:17:26 -0700 From: kim Subject: [bikeqld] Sylvan Rd issues.... To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I have been banging on about the state of repair of the pavement and markings down on Sylvan Rd and gradually things get fixed but seemingly in Council's own time frame. There seems to be little sense of urgency with what are really issues of public safety, particularly that of cyclists. I set up an example for Campbell Newman since he had told me that Council was very concerned about fixing any of these issues promptly. I put in a complaint about a number of bike symbols that had been dug up by contractors and never replaced and had been like that for years. I then kept a track of my efforts to have those repaired by complaints to Council. It was about nine months since I started my complaints and had had several follow ups but still nothing had been done. I then sent all of that history to Mayor Newman to show that what I was experiencing was nothing like what he was espousing. One of his people then wrote back and said the fixes had been made some time back and so I had to go down there and make photographs of the damaged symbols to prove it, which I duly sent to him to prove it was not the case. Embarrassed about all of this, Mayor Newman has assigned their head maintenance man to sort it out with me. Richard Mathews is their head Maintenance chap and he has offered to meet with me on site to discuss the issues with a view to fixing the immediate ones but more importantly to figure out why a complaint like this was not acted on more promptly and just what went wrong. I know that many of the issues down there are design related and so I am not too sure what benefits will entail but hopefully his section is responsible for looking after worn bike symbols and awareness signs etc. Sylvan road suffers from a number of those problems also. The limit/stop lines to stop cars nosing out into the bike lane at the intersections were virtually non existent at Landsborough Tce and green has been added on just one intersection to make it more obvious to motorists that there is a bike lane there. Bike lane pavement symbols are supposed to be placed near these intersections too but some are missing. It would be beneficial if some of the narrow no-standing zones were painted with yellow no standing lines on the kerb as they are in most other places to stop motorists parking and blocking the whole bike lane unnecessarily but I am not certain if that is going to be something that the maintenance people get involved in. They have this real purchaser/provider mentality within Council and so there is a lot of buck passing (quite literally). Often damage to pavement is the result of contractors and I want to get Council more accountable for auditing the contractors works and holding them responsible for fixes and safety. Some of you may recall the large smooth metal plate placed in the middle of this busy bikeway by a contractor with zero concern for cyclist safety. Most would be familiar with the gauntlet of sunken holes in the pavement from these same works. I am hoping to extend my concerns and issues beyond Sylvan Rd and perhaps raise some of the issues that face us around the corner at the bus depot. Some of you may have seen the new green strip they have placed through there as a result of some lobbying by cyclists to use the bus thoroughfare there. It was a long time coming and I have not seen how well it will work in its final configuration. I do note that they have not used the same green treatment that they use on other roads, it seems to be just flat green paint, perhaps the final coat was not done when I last checked. In the meantime the yellow bike symbols in the car park which also serve to identify the gaps in the speed bumps for night time travel have been virtually non existent for several years despite pleas to have them re-marked and promises by Council that they would be done. I will also see if Richard's section looks after park maintenance and if so will raise some issues of damage by mowers on the recreational tracks in these parks. Does anyone have any specific issues to add to the list on Sylvan Rd that I should raise? I shall probably meet up with Richard some time next week. k . _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090707/c695591c/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 4 ************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090709/63839d23/attachment-0001.htm From indocc at ozemail.com.au Wed Jul 8 18:48:25 2009 From: indocc at ozemail.com.au (colin freestone) Date: Wed Jul 8 18:49:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycle (Indonesia) South South Sulawesi In-Reply-To: <676E6D81B5FF458EA7202FDD441F020A@acer6dff78d94b> Message-ID: Hi there Queensland cyclists. ONE spot has become available on the August South South Sulawesi trip. Website: http://www.cycleindonesia.com.au/. OR ring Colin on 02 9983 0205. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090709/c0918427/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 03:59:58 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sun Jul 12 04:00:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Message-ID: <540237.77855.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Great news that Cr Quirk is opening this bikeway. Ownership. Even more surprizing that Bicycle Queensland actually got ahead of the game to announce it (I think thanks go to Andrew Demack? Yes?). Just to be sure though is there a map showing what is new in this link? The Bleasby St - V1 link itself has been open for yonks, since I put up the post about the Google Streetview image of a cyclist using it ( 508569E 6950550S ). New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July 10 July 2009 Want to ride on Brisbane's newest bikeway? The Macgregor suburban link connects this suburb to the Velo 1 (V1), and also links further into Sunnybank via the Bulimba Creek bikeway - giving a good local spine north, south, east, west! A brief opening with Deputy Mayor Graham Quirk and a local ride will take place on Sunday morning 9.45 at the Bleasby Rd footbridge near Freesia Street where the new bikeway runs. (UBD 201 D16 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 06:35:24 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au) Date: Sun Jul 12 06:35:44 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Message-ID: <353997.76506.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Mich. Could you please tell me how to use ( 508569E 6950550S ) in Google Maps? Also does that mean this year's HTM route will be different? ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 6:59:58 PM Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Great news that Cr Quirk is opening this bikeway. Ownership. Even more surprizing that Bicycle Queensland actually got ahead of the game to announce it (I think thanks go to Andrew Demack? Yes?). Just to be sure though is there a map showing what is new in this link? The Bleasby St - V1 link itself has been open for yonks, since I put up the post about the Google Streetview image of a cyclist using it ( 508569E 6950550S ). New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July 10 July 2009 Want to ride on Brisbane's newest bikeway? The Macgregor suburban link connects this suburb to the Velo 1 (V1), and also links further into Sunnybank via the Bulimba Creek bikeway - giving a good local spine north, south, east, west! A brief opening with Deputy Mayor Graham Quirk and a local ride will take place on Sunday morning 9.45 at the Bleasby Rd footbridge near Freesia Street where the new bikeway runs. (UBD 201 D16 ? ? ? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/ef9ca97c/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 09:56:02 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sun Jul 12 09:56:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Message-ID: <587567.74105.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sorry, Google Earth basic only accepts Lat Long in Degrees Minutes Seconds. Copy the following into Google Earth locator bar, activate street view and scan to the cycleway on the west side of the motorway. The cyclist is on the V1 cycleway extension above the creek parallel to Freesia Street. 27 34'07.03" s 153 05'13.87 E ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 14:49:22 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Jul 12 14:49:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July In-Reply-To: <587567.74105.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <587567.74105.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648341.25631.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Oh, I see you are using Google Earth but I am using Google Map. I don't supposed you could send me the screen dump or upload it to bikeqld.org.au? Sorry for the hassle. Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 12:56:02 AM Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Sorry, Google Earth basic only accepts Lat Long in Degrees Minutes Seconds. Copy the following into Google Earth locator bar, activate street view and scan to the cycleway on the west side of the motorway. The cyclist is on the V1 cycleway extension above the creek parallel to Freesia Street. 27 34'07.03" s 153 05'13.87 E ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/18b19993/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Sun Jul 12 18:58:43 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sun Jul 12 19:02:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night Message-ID: <4A5A78B3.7050703@teegee.com.au> Only just back in town last night and had a pedal along the river to see how the Coro drv bikeway was looking. The scaffolding was coming down on my return. It seems like it was a long 6 weeks, but certainly not as disappointing as the last detour and works. Now I could not help but have a chuckle at the Council's use of blue LED lighting bling along the wall. Is nowhere sacrosanct? The overhead lights throw a very nice illumination, a huge improvement on the old lamps which sent most of their light out over the river. The new ones look like arrays of LED lamps, pretty high tech, we probably blew half the cycling budget on those if they are LEDs. One thing that has me a bit perplexed is there seems to be a roofed rest station and seat on the Coro drv side of the track. I am presuming that this is the bicycle side of the path and if that is the case it would seem then that sitters and resters are likely to be coming and going across the bike path and in fact the seat is not that far off the track and if a family is stopped there with restless kids, it could be a problem keeping them out of the way of bikes. I am hoping that there will ultimately be rest stops on the river side when construction is finished as there are on the North Quay section to minimise this sort of conflict. Ominously when I rode past a young kid had made a crash landing onto this concrete seat from his bike. When his mother asked him what happened he pointed down to the lip in the concrete and said he did not see that. I had not noticed it either. I am presuming that lip wont exist once the path is finished as it is currently a hazard. Probably only another five or so such upgrades now to go before it reaches Toowong. What would be really nice is if it could continue along the river all the way to the Uni. k From kim at teegee.com.au Sun Jul 12 19:20:24 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sun Jul 12 19:23:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July In-Reply-To: <540237.77855.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <540237.77855.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5A7DC8.8000301@teegee.com.au> That is pretty good news getting that link as Council are really not renown for providing any sort of links into MR bikeways. We could definitely benefit on the west side of town from better links into the Western Arterial Bikeway. Will have to wait and see what the interchange at Darra gives us. The only Council link in 20+ years to this bikeway was the short recreational path in Clivedon Park Indooroopilly which was possible because it just meant cutting a hole in the existing fence separating this park from the bikeway. It was nonetheless a bit of a milestone although the Councillor did not come along for an opening of that one. Like you say, it could be 'ownership' issues there too; as I think everyone wanted to 'disown' that little path as before it was even open 30m of unreinforced concrete was cracked up by contractors driving trucks along and across it and there was a lot of finger pointing. Somebody also forgot to install signs to warn that it was connecting into a bike only bikeway. I do hope this sense of 'ownership' is reflected in the Council's willingness to maintain these new routes as I believe that is what we suffer from now, plenty of fanfare at the opening but simply forgotten about after that. We always hear about capital expenditure for bikeways and boasts about future plans, but never do we hear about the maintenance budgets for existing ones and 99% of our 800kms of bikeways are way old and in a sad state, some having never been maintained since opening. k mich rolling wrote: > Great news that Cr Quirk is opening this bikeway. Ownership. > > Even more surprizing that Bicycle Queensland actually got ahead of the game to announce it (I think thanks go to Andrew Demack? Yes?). > > Just to be sure though is there a map showing what is new in this link? The Bleasby St - V1 link itself has been open for yonks, since I put up the post about the Google Streetview image of a cyclist using it ( 508569E 6950550S ). > > > New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July > 10 July 2009 > > Want to ride on Brisbane's newest bikeway? The Macgregor suburban link connects this suburb to the Velo 1 (V1), and also links further into Sunnybank via the Bulimba Creek bikeway - giving a good local spine north, south, east, west! > > A brief opening with Deputy Mayor Graham Quirk and a local ride will take place on Sunday morning 9.45 at the Bleasby Rd footbridge near Freesia Street where the new bikeway runs. (UBD 201 D16 > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From kim at teegee.com.au Sun Jul 12 19:27:42 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sun Jul 12 19:30:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] and on the topic of budget spends.... Message-ID: <4A5A7F7E.2000604@teegee.com.au> I was under the impression that the City Bike was to be funded by the french folk in return for advertising revenues and that it would not be costing the ratepayers but the last bit of promo material I had from Cr Newman's office stated that the cycle stations would be coming out of that $100m/ 4yr budget. If that is the case I would think that the CityBike project could easily consume a large chunk of that budget with little benefit to a lot of the general cycling population. Then take out the specious pedestrian projects and it starts to look less rosy. I wonder if we will ever see an actual tally of the expenditure. k From kim at teegee.com.au Sun Jul 12 19:52:13 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sun Jul 12 19:55:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July In-Reply-To: <648341.25631.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <587567.74105.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <648341.25631.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5A853D.6000905@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090713/81078496/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 21:32:33 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Jul 12 21:32:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July In-Reply-To: <4A5A853D.6000905@teegee.com.au> References: <587567.74105.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <648341.25631.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A5A853D.6000905@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <87256.91344.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Kim! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 10:52:13 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July Anthony, try this link (its a long one so make sure you cut it all), this might be the cyclist mentioned. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=27+34%2707.03%22+s+153+05%2713.87+E&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=37.134781,75.849609&ie=UTF8&ll=-27.564917,153.081637&spn=0.001127,0.002315&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-27.564972,153.081719&panoid=gLrPbRewWk8EcoranUOlVA&cbp=12,212.3,,0,-5.12 k Anthony Lee wrote: Oh, >I see you are using Google Earth but I am using Google Map. I don't >supposed you could send me the screen dump or upload > >it to bikeqld.org.au? > > >Sorry for the hassle. > > >Anthony > > >Anthony Lee >>The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >>........-- __o >>....-- _ \<,_ >>........(_) / (_) >>E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > > ________________________________ From: >mich rolling >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Monday, 13 July, >2009 12:56:02 AM >Subject: [bikeqld] >MacGregor to V1-New bikeway opens this Sunday 12 July > > >>Sorry, Google Earth basic only accepts Lat Long in Degrees Minutes >Seconds. > >>Copy the following into Google Earth locator bar, activate street view >and >>scan to the cycleway on the west side of the motorway. The cyclist is on > >>the V1 cycleway extension above the creek parallel to Freesia Street. > > >>27 34'07.03" s 153 05'13.87 E > > >> >____________________________________________________________________________________ >>Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. >>Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how. > > ________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/785b68a3/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 21:42:22 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Jul 12 21:42:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night In-Reply-To: <4A5A78B3.7050703@teegee.com.au> References: <4A5A78B3.7050703@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <72734.97977.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Kim, Well this morning, they haven't remove the temporary path yet. With respect to the rest of the upgrades, I hope they don't force us on to that dangerous structure again! I second the suggestion about going all the way to uni but how :-( ? If only some of the folks along the river are not so fuss about their views :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 9:58:43 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night Only just back in town last night and had a pedal along the river to see how the Coro drv bikeway was looking. The scaffolding was coming down on my return. It seems like it was a long 6 weeks, but certainly not as disappointing as the last detour and works. Now I could not help but have a chuckle at the Council's use of blue LED lighting bling along the wall. Is nowhere sacrosanct? The overhead lights throw a very nice illumination, a huge improvement on the old lamps which sent most of their light out over the river. The new ones look like arrays of LED lamps, pretty high tech, we probably blew half the cycling budget on those if they are LEDs. One thing that has me a bit perplexed is there seems to be a roofed rest station and seat on the Coro drv side of the track. I am presuming that this is the bicycle side of the path and if that is the case it would seem then that sitters and resters are likely to be coming and going across the bike path and in fact the seat is not that far off the track and if a family is stopped there with restless kids, it could be a problem keeping them out of the way of bikes. I am hoping that there will ultimately be rest stops on the river side when construction is finished as there are on the North Quay section to minimise this sort of conflict. Ominously when I rode past a young kid had made a crash landing onto this concrete seat from his bike. When his mother asked him what happened he pointed down to the lip in the concrete and said he did not see that. I had not noticed it either. I am presuming that lip wont exist once the path is finished as it is currently a hazard. Probably only another five or so such upgrades now to go before it reaches Toowong. What would be really nice is if it could continue along the river all the way to the Uni. k _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/858fe2ee/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Sun Jul 12 21:43:27 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Sun Jul 12 21:43:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 Message-ID: A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf R From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 12 21:47:11 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Jul 12 21:47:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike fitout recommendations? Message-ID: <862226.79076.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Not having ridden my roadbike much lately, I am feeling that I might be reaching too far forward. Does anyone have a recommendation for me to check whether I need a shorter stem? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/afb323da/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Sun Jul 12 21:50:38 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Sun Jul 12 21:50:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090713124551.H1377@singha.lister.id.au> Wow, it's amazing how little has changed. Admittedly most of us now have freehubs, functional brakes and less inclination to advise ladies to "keep as near as possible to the kerb and ride slowly", but much of the article is still surprisingly relevant. BTW for anybody having trouble with the URL, try this version without the spaces: http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE%20DANGERS%20OF%20CYCLING.pdf Cheers, Ian On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. > > http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf > > R > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From museduca at bigpond.net.au Mon Jul 13 13:57:36 2009 From: museduca at bigpond.net.au (Dave Mc) Date: Mon Jul 13 13:58:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: dangers of cycling In-Reply-To: <200907131700.n6DH07NC021511@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200907131700.n6DH07NC021511@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <39AE0B5C854F4AB4B5132A1DE58030C8@acer6dff78d94b> Love it just love it- funny about the familiar themes- seems some things don't change!! -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 3:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au You can reach the person managing the list at bikeqld-owner@bikeqld.org.au When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Centennial bikeway by night (Anthony Lee) 2. From the Lancet 1896 (Richard Hockey) 3. Bike fitout recommendations? (Anthony Lee) 4. Re: From the Lancet 1896 (Ian Lister) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Lee Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night To: kim , BikeQld Message-ID: <72734.97977.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Kim, Well this morning, they haven't remove the temporary path yet. With respect to the rest of the upgrades, I hope they don't force us on to that dangerous structure again! I second the suggestion about going all the way to uni but how :-( ? If only some of the folks along the river are not so fuss about their views :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 9:58:43 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night Only just back in town last night and had a pedal along the river to see how the Coro drv bikeway was looking. The scaffolding was coming down on my return. It seems like it was a long 6 weeks, but certainly not as disappointing as the last detour and works. Now I could not help but have a chuckle at the Council's use of blue LED lighting bling along the wall. Is nowhere sacrosanct? The overhead lights throw a very nice illumination, a huge improvement on the old lamps which sent most of their light out over the river. The new ones look like arrays of LED lamps, pretty high tech, we probably blew half the cycling budget on those if they are LEDs. One thing that has me a bit perplexed is there seems to be a roofed rest station and seat on the Coro drv side of the track. I am presuming that this is the bicycle side of the path and if that is the case it would seem then that sitters and resters are likely to be coming and going across the bike path and in fact the seat is not that far off the track and if a family is stopped there with restless kids, it could be a problem keeping them out of the way of bikes. I am hoping that there will ultimately be rest stops on the river side when construction is finished as there are on the North Quay section to minimise this sort of conflict. Ominously when I rode past a young kid had made a crash landing onto this concrete seat from his bike. When his mother asked him what happened he pointed down to the lip in the concrete and said he did not see that. I had not noticed it either. I am presuming that lip wont exist once the path is finished as it is currently a hazard. Probably only another five or so such upgrades now to go before it reaches Toowong. What would be really nice is if it could continue along the river all the way to the Uni. k _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/858fe2ee/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:43:27 +1000 From: "Richard Hockey" Subject: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf R ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:47:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] Bike fitout recommendations? To: BIQ Message-ID: <862226.79076.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, Not having ridden my roadbike much lately, I am feeling that I might be reaching too far forward. Does anyone have a recommendation for me to check whether I need a shorter stem? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/afb323da/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:50:38 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister Subject: Re: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <20090713124551.H1377@singha.lister.id.au> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Wow, it's amazing how little has changed. Admittedly most of us now have freehubs, functional brakes and less inclination to advise ladies to "keep as near as possible to the kerb and ride slowly", but much of the article is still surprisingly relevant. BTW for anybody having trouble with the URL, try this version without the spaces: http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE%20DANGERS%20OF%20CYCLING.pdf Cheers, Ian On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. > > http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf > > R > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 ************************************** From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Jul 13 14:30:55 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Jul 13 14:31:12 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: dangers of cycling In-Reply-To: <39AE0B5C854F4AB4B5132A1DE58030C8@acer6dff78d94b> References: <200907131700.n6DH07NC021511@laika.gnusto.com> <39AE0B5C854F4AB4B5132A1DE58030C8@acer6dff78d94b> Message-ID: <60835.33075.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well Dave, may be we ought to have a FAQ? Or is there one already? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Dave Mc To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Cc: r.hockey@sph.uq.edu.au Sent: Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 4:57:36 AM Subject: [bikeqld] RE: dangers of cycling Love it just love it- funny about the familiar themes- seems some things don't change!! -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 3:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au You can reach the person managing the list at bikeqld-owner@bikeqld.org.au When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Centennial bikeway by night (Anthony Lee) 2. From the Lancet 1896 (Richard Hockey) 3. Bike fitout recommendations? (Anthony Lee) 4. Re: From the Lancet 1896 (Ian Lister) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Lee Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night To: kim , BikeQld Message-ID: <72734.97977.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Kim, Well this morning, they haven't remove the temporary path yet. With respect to the rest of the upgrades, I hope they don't force us on to that dangerous structure again! I second the suggestion about going all the way to uni but how :-( ? If only some of the folks along the river are not so fuss about their views :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Monday, 13 July, 2009 9:58:43 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Centennial bikeway by night Only just back in town last night and had a pedal along the river to see how the Coro drv bikeway was looking. The scaffolding was coming down on my return. It seems like it was a long 6 weeks, but certainly not as disappointing as the last detour and works. Now I could not help but have a chuckle at the Council's use of blue LED lighting bling along the wall. Is nowhere sacrosanct? The overhead lights throw a very nice illumination, a huge improvement on the old lamps which sent most of their light out over the river. The new ones look like arrays of LED lamps, pretty high tech, we probably blew half the cycling budget on those if they are LEDs. One thing that has me a bit perplexed is there seems to be a roofed rest station and seat on the Coro drv side of the track. I am presuming that this is the bicycle side of the path and if that is the case it would seem then that sitters and resters are likely to be coming and going across the bike path and in fact the seat is not that far off the track and if a family is stopped there with restless kids, it could be a problem keeping them out of the way of bikes. I am hoping that there will ultimately be rest stops on the river side when construction is finished as there are on the North Quay section to minimise this sort of conflict. Ominously when I rode past a young kid had made a crash landing onto this concrete seat from his bike. When his mother asked him what happened he pointed down to the lip in the concrete and said he did not see that. I had not noticed it either. I am presuming that lip wont exist once the path is finished as it is currently a hazard. Probably only another five or so such upgrades now to go before it reaches Toowong. What would be really nice is if it could continue along the river all the way to the Uni. k _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/858fe2ee/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:43:27 +1000 From: "Richard Hockey" Subject: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf R ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:47:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] Bike fitout recommendations? To: BIQ Message-ID: <862226.79076.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, Not having ridden my roadbike much lately, I am feeling that I might be reaching too far forward. Does anyone have a recommendation for me to check whether I need a shorter stem? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090712/afb323da/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:50:38 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister Subject: Re: [bikeqld] From the Lancet 1896 To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <20090713124551.H1377@singha.lister.id.au> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Wow, it's amazing how little has changed. Admittedly most of us now have freehubs, functional brakes and less inclination to advise ladies to "keep as near as possible to the kerb and ride slowly", but much of the article is still surprisingly relevant. BTW for anybody having trouble with the URL, try this version without the spaces: http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE%20DANGERS%20OF%20CYCLING.pdf Cheers, Ian On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > A Historical perspective on the dangers of cycling. > > http://bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090706/THE DANGERS OF CYCLING.pdf > > R > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 ************************************** _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090713/ead43218/attachment-0001.htm From ben at ultramotive.com.au Mon Jul 13 22:11:54 2009 From: ben at ultramotive.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Mon Jul 13 22:12:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike fitout recommendations? In-Reply-To: <862226.79076.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <862226.79076.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5BF77A.8060607@ultramotive.com.au> Assuming the seat is in the right place front-rear, a reasonable guide is that the handlebar should obscure the front axle when you look downwards at it. If the handlebar appears in front of the axle line, your stem is too long. I think.. Cheers, Ben. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > Not having ridden my roadbike much lately, I am feeling that I might > be reaching too far forward. > Does anyone have a recommendation for me to check whether I need a > shorter stem? > > Thank you > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -- Ben Guymer RPEQ Ultramotive Technologies P/L 5 / 148 Tennyson Memorial Drive Tennyson Q 4104 Ph. 07-3217 1175 Mob.:0414 759 907 Fx. 07-3217 1165 From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Jul 14 18:53:14 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Jul 14 18:53:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper Message-ID: Does QT have a position on this? http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/pedal-cycles_discus sion-paper.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090715/4a132f31/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Jul 15 15:26:13 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Jul 15 15:26:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brissie to Bay go for free? Message-ID: <552181.71492.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I pay for my ride on Brissie 2 Bay already but I can't go. Would someone else be interested in riding for me instead? Is it possible to give away my number to someone else? ANthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090715/05bbb376/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Wed Jul 15 23:10:20 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Wed Jul 15 23:09:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brissie to Bay go for free? Message-ID: <21297.1247717420@people.net.au> I'd gladly take it off you if I had bothered to find out when it was on.... It may be better used for someone who has time to go... :) On Wed 15/07/09 20:26 , "Anthony Lee" doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au sent: Hi all, I pay for my ride on Brissie 2 Bay already but I can't go. Would someone else be interested in riding for me instead? Is it possible to give away my number to someone else? ANthony ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ Show me how._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [2]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld [3]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Links: ------ [1] http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [2] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [3] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090716/efb40673/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Jul 16 17:58:08 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Jul 16 17:58:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Citybikes to power buses? Message-ID: <20090717084943.R1377@singha.lister.id.au> Just think, next time you're trundling down Adelaide St on one of BCC's rented Citybikes, you might actually be powering that bus trying to get past you. At least, that's what this blog post would have you believe: http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2009/07/the-spoke-word-bikes-that-power-buses.html It claims Popular Science is giving the idea some credibility, but the link to the article doesn't work for me: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-07/biking-could-help-power-bus-gives-you-ride-home I could, however, find some (fairly content-free) pics of the proposed system: http://www.popsci.com.au/scitech/gallery/2009-07/bike-rental-system-gives-back-energy-grid ...and a proposal for the exact opposite, rental bikes powered by the grid: http://www.popsci.com.au/scitech/article/2009-06/bike-sharing-gets-electric-update Perhaps there is more detail in the dead tree edition..? Cheers, Ian From busrail at fastmail.fm Fri Jul 17 03:45:19 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Fri Jul 17 04:45:25 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Citybikes to power buses? In-Reply-To: <20090717084943.R1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <009d01ca06ba$ef6ef330$0301010a@norm> Good one Ian. Seems unlikely that much power would be produced. I think I would use more of the energy from the bike battery than I would replace. Certainly I would not be too keen to generate any to run buses while riding uphill! There is a growing awareness that with battery powered cars connected to the grid and charged at home (lots of them) and a supplier controlled grid including connections and lots of sustainable generation, that generation during the day/high wind/etc could be stored for night time use in the car batteries. Giving a more even time spread for sustainable power. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Friday, 17 July 2009 8:58 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Citybikes to power buses? Just think, next time you're trundling down Adelaide St on one of BCC's rented Citybikes, you might actually be powering that bus trying to get past you. At least, that's what this blog post would have you believe: http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2009/07/the-spoke-word-bikes-that-powe r-buses.html It claims Popular Science is giving the idea some credibility, but the link to the article doesn't work for me: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-07/biking-could-help-power-bu s-gives-you-ride-home I could, however, find some (fairly content-free) pics of the proposed system: http://www.popsci.com.au/scitech/gallery/2009-07/bike-rental-system-give s-back-energy-grid ...and a proposal for the exact opposite, rental bikes powered by the grid: http://www.popsci.com.au/scitech/article/2009-06/bike-sharing-gets-elect ric-update Perhaps there is more detail in the dead tree edition..? Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From unixbigot at pobox.com Fri Jul 17 04:09:41 2009 From: unixbigot at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Fri Jul 17 06:25:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> Richard Hockey wrote: > > Does QT have a position on this? > > http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/pedal-cycles_discussion-paper.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, QT recently retrospectively banned Internal Combustion powered cycles, purportedly because they claimed they were unable to be successfully nobbled to 200W, and that most models were in fact more powerful. This would indicate that the qld govt would be in favour of power limiting. In my experience as the owner of an electric, 250W is still stupidly low. I can live with speed limiting of the motor, (say, 25 or 30km/h) but limiting _power_ is completely at odds with all other vehicle legistlation. The _point_ of electric cycles is not to simulate a "human cyclist", it is to allow you to do _more_ than a human cyclist, to carry more cargo, or ride up steeper hills, or accelerate safely from a standing start in traffic. Nobbling the power to 250W essentially destroys the utility of this vehicle class as a car replacement. The discussion paper's rejection of the "you must pedal to get power" rubbish (as is the law in japan) is laudable. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Jul 17 14:22:23 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Jul 17 14:22:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fixies ..... nuff said. Message-ID: <433432.9152.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Have everyone seen this? http://www.manolith .com/2009/ 07/13/fixies- fad/ Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090717/51f0dbfb/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Jul 17 17:35:02 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Jul 17 17:35:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper In-Reply-To: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> References: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20090717223512.LJOK4023.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Anyone who has an interest in electric-assisted bikes is welcome to contact me off-list as there is a lot going on behind the scenes ... advocates arguing the finer details of practicality and purpose as has Christopher ... while there is a whole sales industry trying to get restrictions lifted such that in effect, electric powered motor bikes are allowed ... Similar developments in relation to the concept/s of hire CityBikes are also of relevance ... MY................. At 07:09 PM 17/07/2009, Christopher Biggs wrote: >Richard Hockey wrote: >> >>Does QT have a position on this? >> >>http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/pedal-cycles_discussion-paper.html >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Well, QT recently retrospectively banned Internal Combustion powered >cycles, purportedly because they claimed they were unable to be >successfully nobbled to 200W, and that most models were in fact more >powerful. This would indicate that the qld govt would be in favour >of power limiting. > >In my experience as the owner of an electric, 250W is still stupidly >low. I can live with speed limiting of the motor, (say, 25 or >30km/h) but limiting _power_ is completely at odds with all other >vehicle legistlation. >The _point_ of electric cycles is not to simulate a "human cyclist", >it is to allow you to do _more_ than a human cyclist, to carry more >cargo, or ride up steeper hills, or accelerate safely from >a standing start in traffic. > >Nobbling the power to 250W essentially destroys the utility of this >vehicle class as a car replacement. > > >The discussion paper's rejection of the "you must pedal to get >power" rubbish (as is the law in japan) is laudable. > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.19/2244 - Release Date: >07/17/09 18:00:00 From listjunkie at pobox.com Sat Jul 18 03:15:06 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Sat Jul 18 03:15:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper In-Reply-To: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> References: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4A61848A.9030700@pobox.com> Christopher Biggs wrote: > > The discussion paper's rejection of the "you must pedal to get power" > rubbish (as is the law in japan) is laudable. > Oh cripes, on 2nd reading they WANT to have a "no pedal, no power" definition. This shits me to tears. * it outlaws almost every bike on the market * it abandons the big safety win of getting started in traffic without fiddling with pedal clips * it's some kind of screwed up "you must pedal for your own good" nannyism * emulating the japanese & euros is not worlds best practice, it's worlds most stupid bureaucracy * it robs unfit/disabled of transport * it's no fun --chris From michael at yeatesit.biz Sat Jul 18 18:44:31 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sat Jul 18 18:44:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper In-Reply-To: <4A61848A.9030700@pobox.com> References: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> <4A61848A.9030700@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20090718234437.GQMX21119.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Christopher ... and others interested ... re ... http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/pedal-cycles_discussion-paper.html I refer to my previous email ... I suggest this needs specific attention and discussion in order to meet potential users needs WITHOUT excessive impact on cyclists and pedestrians including people with disabilities. There IS ongoing active discussion ... so feel free to contact me off-list and I can add you to some of this discussion. In essence, there are really three categories for consideration. 1. Power-assisted bicycles which are included and regarded as bicycles in terms of all regulations. 2. Electric-powered motorcycles which are the same as any other motorcycle except electric powered and which are included and regarded as motorcycles in terms of all regulations. 3. Special condition "vehicles" and exemptions/privileges that allow for special needs. #3 simply uses the same bureaucratic processes as currently allow powered "wheelchairs" to be registered, create "disabled" car parking spaces (red or blue), and therefore potentially could allow for people with particular needs to be issued with temporary or permanent permits to use a category #2 vehicle as if it were a category #1 vehicle. #2 is simply the vehicles that do not comply with category #1. #1 is a bicycle with electric power to "assist" in its use, that is, it is a pedal powered bicycle with assistance. It seems fairly clear then that the level or extent of "assistance" should result in a vehicle that has performance characteristics in relation to maximum speed, acceleration and hill-climbing power/speed, etc that are roughly equivalent to that of an average cyclist on a fairly common bicycle. Anything that exceeds that would be either category 2 or for people who really do need more assistance than is allowed under category #1, category #3 is available. I recall a similar situation that existed in Perth (and may still apply) where bicycles are banned on peak hour peak direction trains including through the CBD (and similar applies in Brisbane). BUT a special exemption permit was available to people who could show that they needed their bicycle at both ends of the train trip eg for work, or uni purposes, IF there was no other reasonable option eg no connecting buses and a very long or potentially low security walk. So to quote BV, "It can be done"...! It is also worth noting that it is easy to put in place a requirement to the effect that anyone who did get a Category #3 vehicle would need to be aware that using it in a way that was inappropriate could always result in the permit being withdrawn. Without some kind of accepted broad principles such as those above, trying to negotiate details re controls, performance, power, etc let alone some kind of standard will inevitably end up with a totally unsatisfactory outcome. Getting rid of other than electric assisted bicycles is the first step ... in my view, accepting something akin to the above is the next ...! I have copied this to Alan Parker who is without doubt one of the extremely experienced "experts" in the field of cycling advocacy ... and coincidentally, someone left a copy of "Technical Bulletin #9 BIKEWAYS" produced by the NSW Planning and Environment Commission which cites quite a bit of Alan's work. But of more interest is how little has changed or has been achieved in NSW (or across Australia) in the 33 years since the document was published ... in December 1976 ...! MY................... At 06:15 PM 18/07/2009, Christopher Biggs wrote: >Christopher Biggs wrote: >> >>The discussion paper's rejection of the "you must pedal to get >>power" rubbish (as is the law in japan) is laudable. > >Oh cripes, on 2nd reading they WANT to have a "no pedal, no power" >definition. >This sh*ts me to tears. > > * it outlaws almost every bike on the market > > * it abandons the big safety win of getting started in traffic > without fiddling with pedal clips > > * it's some kind of screwed up "you must pedal for your own good" nannyism > > * emulating the japanese & euros is not worlds best practice, it's > worlds most stupid bureaucracy > > * it robs unfit/disabled of transport > > * it's no fun > >--chris > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.19/2245 - Release Date: >07/18/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090719/2188ac53/attachment.htm From matt at people.net.au Sun Jul 19 17:37:43 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Sun Jul 19 17:37:11 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fixies ..... nuff said. Message-ID: <16786.1248043063@people.net.au> But I like fixies! :) OK - I will qualify this by saying that I like *my* fixie that is a Malvern Star, 5-Star that is still in the process of being rebuilt.? I certainly don't ride it like the knobs do around the City.? Is it any wonder that their numbers are dwindling! On Fri 17/07/09 19:22 , "Anthony Lee" doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au sent: Have everyone seen this? http://www.manolith .com/2009/ 07/13/fixies- fad/ [1] ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ Show me how._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [3]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld [4]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Links: ------ [1] http://www.manolith.com/2009/07/13/fixies-fad/ [2] http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [3] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [4] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090719/fb7b29ef/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Jul 21 02:27:59 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Jul 21 02:28:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] NTC - Future City Transport Summit 2009 Speech Message-ID: http://www.ntc.gov.au/DocView.aspx?DocumentId=01886 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090721/e86c1303/attachment.htm From j at jamver.id.au Tue Jul 21 03:25:20 2009 From: j at jamver.id.au (James Lever) Date: Tue Jul 21 03:26:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers at new Jindalee bikepath Message-ID: I just returned from a walk along Mount Ommaney drive down to the end where the new bikepath link is being installed and noted with disgust that there are a set of shiny yellow kidney crushers (squeeze bars) installed at the entrance. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mediawiki/images/9/96/Mount_Ommaney_Drive-Squeeze_bars.jpg I thought this practice was no longer in use within the BCC bikeways team? Disappointed. James From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Jul 21 05:29:45 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Jul 21 05:30:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers at new Jindalee bikepath In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090721201049.C1377@singha.lister.id.au> Hi James, My memory of the PedBikeTrans presentation we were both at a few weeks ago was that Stephanie Edwards acknowledged that Council was continuing to use squeeze bars (for the purposes of keeping motor vehicles off paths and out of parks), and just that if there were any in useless or dangerous locations people should report them so they could be looked into. In my experience it's not common for BCC to use the bars in places where they don't serve to block motor vehicles, but there are plenty of cases where they're used contrary to Austroads Part 14. Specifically, the relevant section (6.7.3.1) recommends that terminal devices "be located 5-10 metres in advance of the intersection to enable 'storage' and deceleration, whilst waiting for other path users to pass through the terminal device", and "have regard for the general location of the device in the immediate path length. In general it would be inappropriate to locate terminals at or near curves, within a distance of less than 5 metres of kerb ramps or within a manoeuvring zone of cyclists". >From your photo it looks like these new bars might meet the above requirements, but if you think they're unsafe then by all means let them know - that's the only way things will ever change. Cheers, Ian On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, James Lever wrote: > I just returned from a walk along Mount Ommaney drive down to the end > where the new bikepath link is being installed and noted with disgust > that there are a set of shiny yellow kidney crushers (squeeze bars) > installed at the entrance. > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mediawiki/images/9/96/Mount_Ommaney_Drive-Squeeze_bars.jpg > > I thought this practice was no longer in use within the BCC bikeways team? > > Disappointed. > > James From kim at teegee.com.au Tue Jul 21 07:28:35 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Tue Jul 21 07:32:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers at new Jindalee bikepath In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A65B473.2000406@teegee.com.au> Those ones look relatively tame. There is an older set in the park off Fig Tree Pocket Road which are constructed in the middle of an 'S' bend. They are well blackened from handlebar strikes. http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Fig_Tree_Pocket_-_Squeeze_Bars.JPG kim James Lever wrote: > I just returned from a walk along Mount Ommaney drive down to the end > where the new bikepath link is being installed and noted with disgust > that there are a set of shiny yellow kidney crushers (squeeze bars) > installed at the entrance. > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mediawiki/images/9/96/Mount_Ommaney_Drive-Squeeze_bars.jpg > > > I thought this practice was no longer in use within the BCC bikeways > team? > > Disappointed. > > James > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 16:55:14 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Tue Jul 21 16:55:33 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: <200907211700.n6LH06Je026278@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200907211700.n6LH06Je026278@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: James etal BCC are the only agency in the Brisbane area who use these outdated dangerous contraptions. QT and MR are aware of current design standards and use other methods to ensure cars don't drive down bike tracks. My understanding of the history is the BCC cling like limpets on this one thanks to an old decision so they can't be seen as wrong. Heaven forbid they consider more appropriate design. BCC are the laughing stock out of others who build bikeways because of these. Part of the BCC logic is that it also slows down cyclists as they approach a road or intersection. I hate these things almost as much as Yani hates bus stop adshells. They use them where ever and when ever they feel. I've seen them in places where there is no way you could get a car into. Reasons why I hate them - They are visually repugnant - They deliberately cause direct conflict with users. - They cause accidents with clipping of them. Try and find one that doesn't have black marks all over them! - There are smarter ways to achieve the same goal - The risk of cars driving onto bikeways is very low to require an archaic response - If part of their logic is to slow cyclists down why don't they put these onto roads as well to slow cars down as they get to an intersection. Let them know your views on this. Maybe oneday they will let their stubborn grip onto these dangerous devices go. Cheers Aaron > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:28:35 +1000 > From: kim > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers at new Jindalee bikepath > To: BikeQld > Message-ID: <4A65B473.2000406@teegee.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Those ones look relatively tame. There is an older set in the park off > Fig Tree Pocket Road which are constructed in the middle of an 'S' bend. > They are well blackened from handlebar strikes. > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Fig_Tree_Pocket_-_Squeeze_Bars.JPG > > kim > > James Lever wrote: > > I just returned from a walk along Mount Ommaney drive down to the end > > where the new bikepath link is being installed and noted with disgust > > that there are a set of shiny yellow kidney crushers (squeeze bars) > > installed at the entrance. > > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mediawiki/images/9/96/Mount_Ommaney_Drive-Squeeze_bars.jpg > > > > > > I thought this practice was no longer in use within the BCC bikeways > > team? > > > > Disappointed. > > > > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 18 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a place to rent, share or buy this winter? Find your next place with Ninemsn?property http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline&_t=774152450&_r=Domain_tagline&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090722/6fc9707d/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Jul 21 18:03:11 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Jul 21 18:03:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: <200907211700.n6LH06Je026278@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <20090721230306.WWBE6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> To this needs to be added the question as to the role of BQ in the development and adoption of the "yellow bananas" and whether it supported the idea or proposed and pushed any others? The "bananas" are certainly used outside Brisbane ... some seen in Scenic Rim Regional Council area a few days ago ... after all, if it is done in Brisbane, without question, it must be good ... ;-) Trouble is ... would anybody in BCC know now why they were designed the way they are and why no other alternatives were adopted or perhaps even considered ie what other options ARE available for BCC to use? After all there are other ways to keep vehicles off the paths ...! It is also worth noting that most of the older paths are around 50% or more cracked by Council's own vehicles anyway ...! MY......................... At 07:55 AM 22/07/2009, Aaron Wray wrote: >James etal >BCC are the only agency in the Brisbane area who use these outdated >dangerous contraptions. QT and MR are aware of current design >standards and use other methods to ensure cars don't drive down bike tracks. > >My understanding of the history is the BCC cling like limpets on >this one thanks to an old decision so they can't be seen as wrong. >Heaven forbid they consider more appropriate design. BCC are the >laughing stock out of others who build bikeways because of these. >Part of the BCC logic is that it also slows down cyclists as they >approach a road or intersection. > >I hate these things almost as much as Yani hates bus stop adshells. >They use them where ever and when ever they feel. I've seen them in >places where there is no way you could get a car into. Reasons why I hate them >- They are visually repugnant >- They deliberately cause direct conflict with users. >- They cause accidents with clipping of them. Try and find one that >doesn't have black marks all over them! >- There are smarter ways to achieve the same goal >- The risk of cars driving onto bikeways is very low to require an >archaic response >- If part of their logic is to slow cyclists down why don't they put >these onto roads as well to slow cars down as they get to an intersection. > >Let them know your views on this. Maybe oneday they will let their >stubborn grip onto these dangerous devices go. >Cheers >Aaron > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:28:35 +1000 > > From: kim > > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers at new Jindalee bikepath > > To: BikeQld > > Message-ID: <4A65B473.2000406@teegee.com.au> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > Those ones look relatively tame. There is an older set in the park off > > Fig Tree Pocket Road which are constructed in the middle of an 'S' bend. > > They are well blackened from handlebar strikes. > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Fig_Tree_Pocket_-_Squeeze_Bars.JPG > > > > kim > > > > James Lever wrote: > > > I just returned from a walk along Mount Ommaney drive down to the end > > > where the new bikepath link is being installed and noted with disgust > > > that there are a set of shiny yellow kidney crushers (squeeze bars) > > > installed at the entrance. > > > > > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mediawiki/images/9/96/Mount_Ommaney_Drive-Squeeze_bars.jpg > > > > > > > > > > I thought this practice was no longer in use within the BCC bikeways > > > team? > > > > > > Disappointed. > > > > > > James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bikeqld mailing list > > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 18 > > ************* ************************** > > > >---------- >Find your next place with Ninemsn property >Looking >for a place to rent, share or buy this winter? >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.22/2253 - Release Date: >07/21/09 18:02:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090722/0b7e8f91/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Tue Jul 21 20:05:48 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Tue Jul 21 20:09:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Pedalestrians Message-ID: <4A6665EC.6040407@teegee.com.au> When the Police had their blitz on cyclists riding across the pedestrian crossings on Moggill Rd at the bikeway crossing point during the last bike week, I got to pondering the options. In my thinking a cyclist should be able to ride adjacent to the crossing without breaking any laws. The road rules seem to specify quite clearly how a crossing is defined and marked and there is certainly an onus on pedestrians to stay within that defined area or at least be some 20m away if they are crossing outside the defined area. While the road rules stipulate the nearest distance to a pedestrian crossing that a pedestrian can legally cross, there is no such restriction on where a bicycle can cross a road in relation to a crossing, only the fact that it is not to ride on the crossing itself. I put this to QT for clarification and while they did not state that it was clearly ok to do so, they did suggest that it would seem to be ok as far as the wording of the rules went. Just like rules for cars, I can imagine that reasonable clearances would need to be considered, for example, you could not argue that you were not on the crossing if your wheels were not but your handlebars overhung. I would consider the normal riding clearances like 1m to be safe and adequate for pedestrians and cyclists. So then the other issues might be what to do if there is a traffic island or refuge in the middle of the road? I believe that the road rules might prevent a vehicle riding or driving over such a divider. Also the use of ramps to access the road might be an issue as these usually are in the middle of the crossing area and are rarely wider than the crossing area. The road rules prevent a cyclist riding across a road or part of a road, but does that include turning left from one road related area to the road itself? I think that might not be regarded as 'crossing' a road. I think the part road mention in the rules is to take into account the fact that there might be an island so you cross half a road. Where there are traffic lights it would seem possible to legally ride across between the stop line and the pedestrian zone. With that in mind it would seem that there is really not a great need for the expense of bicycle traffic lights (which would probably only be connected in phase with the existing pedestrian ones) and that all that is needed would be to remove the pedestrian crossing on the slipways as cars already have to give way to pedestrians there and to perhaps widen the passage thru the median strip island to have a clear passage for bikes off the crossing zone. If the volume of pedestrian traffic grows (right now it is extremely small) then the ramps could be widened at the slipways. As for the police riding across crossings, while that shows that it can be safely done, they are exempt under the road rules from our obligations at these crossings. kim From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Jul 21 22:03:40 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Jul 21 22:04:12 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers In-Reply-To: <20090721230306.WWBE6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <200907211700.n6LH06Je026278@laika.gnusto.com> <20090721230306.WWBE6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <20090722120838.N1377@singha.lister.id.au> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: > To this needs to be added the question as to the role of BQ in the > development and adoption of the "yellow bananas" and whether it > supported the idea or proposed and pushed any others? Certainly BQ has been against banana bars for some time, and IIRC since the outset. There was an article in Queensland Cyclist a year or two ago that (I hope) clearly stated BQ's opposition to them, and it was Ben that raised the issue (in the context of "why is BCC still continuing to use these damned things?") at the recent PedBikeTrans meeting I referred to in my previous mail. > The "bananas" are certainly used outside Brisbane ... some seen in > Scenic Rim Regional Council area a few days ago ... after all, if it is > done in Brisbane, without question, it must be good ... ;-) Indeed. This is one of BQ's stated reasons for often focusing its lobbying on BCC too, FWIW - convince BCC and many other Qld councils are likely to follow. > Trouble is ... would anybody in BCC know now why they were designed the way > they are and why no other alternatives were adopted or perhaps even > considered ie what other options ARE available for BCC to use? I don't think so, at least not with first hand knowledge or the ability to influence current practices. I agree that's a significant difficulty in provoking change. > After all there are other ways to keep vehicles off the paths ...! What's your preferred way(s)? FWIW as Aaron pointed out, it seems pretty unnecessary to even be trying particularly hard to keep private motor vehicles off paths in all but a few cases (does anybody here disagree?), but that argument doesn't seem to have been too successful so far. > It is also worth noting that most of the older paths are around 50% or more > cracked by Council's own vehicles anyway ...! Fortunately it is at least using steel reinforcing in all new paths. It would be nice if we didn't have to deal with large motor vehicles on bike paths at all, but that's probably not a good cause to be pushing at the same time as getting rid of terminal devices :) Cheers, Ian From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 22:30:01 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Tue Jul 21 22:30:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers In-Reply-To: <200907220304.n6M34XA5015220@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200907220304.n6M34XA5015220@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: Hi all I don't know about the original decision but it was reconfirmed in BCC's eyes when one person a few years ago accidently turned down a bike way. It was an extremely rare occurance but to certain simpletons that is enough to reinforce. Last year when I was sitting on a meeting on the proposed Gateway motorway bikeway I raised the question if they will be putting in kidney crushers (I was already to launch into my rant). There was a look of stunned disbelief then laughter and I was told they will not be putting them in. Another time meeting with Leighton who are constructing the replacement bike facilities around the Clem7 tunnel BCC told them have to put them in. In fact they were going to have kidney crushers and a bollard. Talk about a match made in heaven. Although bollards can be well designed and cause minimal risk and at least create a separation of users and can be removed for emergency access. One of the other risks of restricting vehicle access by kidney crushers is what happens in suburban areas when emergency services need to gain access. Bollards and video monitoring or clever entry/exit designs are better ways to restrict access if you must. If it doesn't look easy to get your car in there people generally won't. Cheers Aaron > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:03:40 +1000 (EST) > From: Ian Lister > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Message-ID: <20090722120838.N1377@singha.lister.id.au> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: > > To this needs to be added the question as to the role of BQ in the > > development and adoption of the "yellow bananas" and whether it > > supported the idea or proposed and pushed any others? > > Certainly BQ has been against banana bars for some time, and IIRC since > the outset. There was an article in Queensland Cyclist a year or two ago > that (I hope) clearly stated BQ's opposition to them, and it was Ben that > raised the issue (in the context of "why is BCC still continuing to use > these damned things?") at the recent PedBikeTrans meeting I referred to in > my previous mail. > > > The "bananas" are certainly used outside Brisbane ... some seen in > > Scenic Rim Regional Council area a few days ago ... after all, if it is > > done in Brisbane, without question, it must be good ... ;-) > > Indeed. This is one of BQ's stated reasons for often focusing its lobbying > on BCC too, FWIW - convince BCC and many other Qld councils are likely to > follow. > > > Trouble is ... would anybody in BCC know now why they were designed the way > > they are and why no other alternatives were adopted or perhaps even > > considered ie what other options ARE available for BCC to use? > > I don't think so, at least not with first hand knowledge or the ability to > influence current practices. I agree that's a significant difficulty in > provoking change. > > > After all there are other ways to keep vehicles off the paths ...! > > What's your preferred way(s)? > > FWIW as Aaron pointed out, it seems pretty unnecessary to even be trying > particularly hard to keep private motor vehicles off paths in all but a > few cases (does anybody here disagree?), but that argument doesn't seem to > have been too successful so far. > > > It is also worth noting that most of the older paths are around 50% or more > > cracked by Council's own vehicles anyway ...! > > Fortunately it is at least using steel reinforcing in all new paths. It > would be nice if we didn't have to deal with large motor vehicles on bike > paths at all, but that's probably not a good cause to be pushing at the > same time as getting rid of terminal devices :) > > Cheers, > > Ian > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 47, Issue 19 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsearch%2Fsearch%2Easpx%3Fexec%3Dgo%26tp%3Dq%26gc%3D2%26tr%3D1%26lage%3D18%26uage%3D55%26cl%3D14%26sl%3D0%26dist%3D50%26po%3D1%26do%3D2%26trackingid%3D1046138%26r2s%3D1&_t=773166090&_r=Hotmail_Endtext&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090722/8d586eb3/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Jul 22 02:03:25 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Jul 22 03:10:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Kidney crushers In-Reply-To: <20090722120838.N1377@singha.lister.id.au> References: <200907211700.n6LH06Je026278@laika.gnusto.com> <20090721230306.WWBE6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090722120838.N1377@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090722070328.CLXH6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Ian ... Not sure who or what IIRC is ... |-O ... need to know? The first recorded banana is well known ... it arrived quite late in 1995 or early 1996. It (rather than any other more common solutions) arrived primarily because it was said that cyclists ( =s BQ or was it still BIQ?) don't like/want central posts in their paths ... or so the saying goes. Note that this is reported as cyclists' opposition to central posts, but apparently did not apply to bollards .. who knows? It is understood that several cases have proceeded to court since then as a result of injury suffered due to bollards but I understand all in Qld have been settled out of court, on the steps of the court as it were, with confidentiality agreements, something BQ should explain to its group insurer/s and/or legal advisers is totally unacceptable and should not occur, as it allows dangerous practices to continue to injure cyclists and to continue to be built. The discussion preceding the "yellow bananas" was in 1995-6 ... it was agreed between BCC and BQ/BIQ that "something" was needed for the purpose ... but not with a central post ...! The result was the "yellow bananas". * I know I opposed the idea on the grounds that the European "solution" I had seen, used a central post ... in some cases permanent eg a power pole which would usually have a street light, in other cases removable (eg to allow authorised vehicle access) instead of the rather silly additional access gate that must in most cases come as part of the grossly excessive cost of the "yellow bananas". In both cases the posts are ideally suitable and located for information signs etc etc. As always there is more to it than just that ... so see further below.. Interestingly, the first "yellow banana" was praised at least to some extent by (some) cyclists as a reasonable solution in the circumstances. But then not long after that it was discovered that some of the smallest cars of the period could still get through ... so some bright spark whose name never surfaced then went ahead and installed ... you guessed no doubt, not a visible sign post but a standard bollard ... as only an organisation seemingly completely lacking in understanding (or with other motives and/or priorities) could do ...! No doubt the cost of the design and construction and installation of the bollard came from the cycling funds ... as no doubt did the cost of its removal and reparation not long after. So there are still no signs where they would best be located and we still get the extremely expensive and in about 99% of cases unnecessary, "yellow bananas" ...! Its worth noting too that at about that time much of the cycling budget for capital works was spent in parks ie on "bikepaths" or more correctly, shared paths with pedestrian priority. Parks suddenly sprouted lots of these 'yellow bananas" all over Brisbane at both ends of the existing as well as new paths and at road crossings ... we estimated about $5000 or more per set (ie at each end) so literally many thousands of dollars were spent if not wasted across Brisbane. I mentioned the "cyclists don't like central posts" mantra previously in part due to the obvious possibility of running into them ... but somehow not the "yellow bananas"? The idea of the post and sign with lighting where possible is to treat the site as an intersection ... such that the sign can be seen by cyclists over the heads of cyclists or pedestrians ahead of them. This can be further reinforced by line marking and as in parts of Europe, by a different rough texture on the pavement/path surface once the wheel is approaching an area where there is a danger ... in this case where if the cyclist continued, the bike would hit the object ie post. You feel the texture through the bike ... it works ... even in thick fog. We tried to get that set of ideas used on the Chelmer side of the Jack Pesch Bridge ... again without success ... have a look next time ... a fat bollard, you still can't see over cyclists or taller pedestrians ... and yes, there is even a bit of texture thrown in but don't rely on it ...! But its bright yellow despite being a great place for bill posters and graffiti ...! We did slightly better on the south side of the Goodwill Bridge ... but only slightly ... and I suspect even that took some last minute changes. In a nutshell, it is the problem of "secret" and/or selected advocacy too close to the organisation/s it aims to change ... the result of which is the "BQ was consulted" response ... whereas an accurate record eg letters and minutes of BQ/BIQ meetings with BCC by way of the Brisbane Bicycle Committee (or whatever it now is) and elsewhere would be far more useful than assertions as to exactly what was sought or agreed and what wasn't agreed (or sought) ... and when. Back in about 1993, I recall meeting BCC with the then BIQ secretary ... and we pointed out then that we could not "represent" BIQ members if the information we were shown and discussed was to be considered confidential ie we could not discuss it with other cyclists. Think about it ... it made no sense then (and nothing has changed) ... so after a very short private discussion, we were both invited back and it was accepted by BCC that if we were to represent members and more widely, cyclists, then the information could not be confidential ... we could show it to anyone interested, indeed we had something of an obligation to do so ... to get better feedback and to promote more interest. You know it makes sense ...! But what has happened to BQ and informing cyclists, since then? It is now more than 13 years since that first "yellow banana" ... and clearly not much has changed ... not coincidentally about the same time BCC also "promised" some 900km of "bikeways" most of which were to be on road plus an 8% cycling mode share by 2000 ...! Not much achievement there either it would appear. Whether for bananas or bike lanes, Council and others know the design criteria that is required ... so should BQ ... perhaps it is time for BQ or a BUG to sort out and agree what is needed and try to put an end to the "bananas" plague and other substandard facilities where justified. As for why I (or any of us) should be asked let alone expected to make ideas available when both BQ and BCC consistently refuse to do so "because BQ is/was consulted", surely that is a question that should be directed to BQ ... if only because it is "BQ that is consulted" ... and if that is to be the case, then presumably BQ should have sufficient expertise to match it with if not exceed, that of BCC ... and the other road authorities? * BTW, they were also known as "yellow worms" ... MY.............................. At 01:03 PM 22/07/2009, Ian Lister wrote: >On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: >>To this needs to be added the question as to the role of BQ in the >>development and adoption of the "yellow bananas" and whether it >>supported the idea or proposed and pushed any others? > >Certainly BQ has been against banana bars for some time, and IIRC >since the outset. There was an article in Queensland Cyclist a year >or two ago that (I hope) clearly stated BQ's opposition to them, and >it was Ben that raised the issue (in the context of "why is BCC >still continuing to use these damned things?") at the recent >PedBikeTrans meeting I referred to in my previous mail. > >>The "bananas" are certainly used outside Brisbane ... some seen in >>Scenic Rim Regional Council area a few days ago ... after all, if >>it is done in Brisbane, without question, it must be good ... ;-) > >Indeed. This is one of BQ's stated reasons for often focusing its >lobbying on BCC too, FWIW - convince BCC and many other Qld councils >are likely to follow. > >>Trouble is ... would anybody in BCC know now why they were designed >>the way they are and why no other alternatives were adopted or >>perhaps even considered ie what other options ARE available for BCC to use? > >I don't think so, at least not with first hand knowledge or the >ability to influence current practices. I agree that's a significant >difficulty in provoking change. > >>After all there are other ways to keep vehicles off the paths ...! > >What's your preferred way(s)? > >FWIW as Aaron pointed out, it seems pretty unnecessary to even be >trying particularly hard to keep private motor vehicles off paths in >all but a few cases (does anybody here disagree?), but that argument >doesn't seem to have been too successful so far. > >>It is also worth noting that most of the older paths are around 50% >>or more cracked by Council's own vehicles anyway ...! > >Fortunately it is at least using steel reinforcing in all new paths. >It would be nice if we didn't have to deal with large motor vehicles >on bike paths at all, but that's probably not a good cause to be >pushing at the same time as getting rid of terminal devices :) > >Cheers, > >Ian > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.22/2253 - Release Date: >07/21/09 18:02:00 From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Jul 22 03:23:29 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Wed Jul 22 03:28:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Pedalestrians In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A66CC81.8020909@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090722/4a999e3b/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Jul 22 03:51:30 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Wed Jul 22 03:55:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] a bit more feedback on the Western Freeway Bikeway.... Message-ID: <4A66D312.9070008@teegee.com.au> After putting in a formal request to the QPS to do something about the increasing use of the Western Freeway bikeway by pedestrians, particularly after daylight hours, I received a response that basically said that they had investigated the bikeway and concluded that there was insufficient prevention/warnings/measures for pedestrians to not enter this bikeway and consequently could not take any enforcement measures against pedestrians using it. (I wonder if that view also applies to sticking to the speed limit on a road if the speed signs are not sufficiently abundant?) Nonetheless it was the response I had anticipated from my initial discussions with the QPS. So now I will present that letter of response to MR and the Transport Minister as it makes it quite clear that public safety is being compromised because of a lack of compliance with the rulebooks. I am sure that the considered opinion of the QPS has got to carry some credibility - at least, maybe. BTW anyone else had any after dark encounters down there, or are those 1000+ lumen LED bike lights doing the trick? k From matt at people.net.au Wed Jul 22 21:52:43 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Wed Jul 22 21:51:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Pedalestrians Message-ID: <3805.1248317563@people.net.au> From my reading of the rules, the police aren't exempt from the Traffic Act unless an actual exemption is worded in there (like how they are allowed to use handheld mobile phones while driving). If not explicitly defined, the police must follow the same rules as for the public and then activate the lights and sirens on the vehicle (if fitted) if they are about to deviate from this. Of course, Speed Cameras in the middle of a highway are still illegal under the Traffic Act as ALL road plant must have signage 500m before the site and I am fairly certain that these locations are in breach of workplace health and safety regulations - something which the police cannot disregard on their usual whim. On Wed 22/07/09 08:23 , "kim" kim@teegee.com.au sent: You are probably right there Ken, it was just a bit of stream-of-conscience type rant I hastily posted this morn as I was rushing off to a meeting.? Not too sure if there is a lot of worth in it until the crossing options there get visited by MR. Also not too sure if the police that did the last blitz ( I spoke to them after it) would share my, or even QT's view on the legality of said strategy. Might just have to test that one out. Police that I spoke to said they were not really concerned about pedestrians in this case, it was about the danger to motorists using the slipways, so I guess there was some source of complaint there to spark that off. There were a lot of ramblings coming from the State Member's office and I don't know if the blitz started from there via a complaint to his office. Hmm, a video; knowing my luck it might land me in gaol for promoting some rebellious pedalestrian manoeuvre that the local? police don't like. kim Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au wrote: WOW! that was hard to follow! Looks like an opporunity to create a youtube video just to explain your email. I've got a dodgy camera.... --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. 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If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [1]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld [2]">http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Links: ------ [1] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ [2] http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090723/75469a8e/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Jul 23 00:33:36 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Jul 23 00:33:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Wrecking bikelanes with road repairs In-Reply-To: <17E4084C752DF24E9C8AE0C395D793B20384156772@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <17E4084C752DF24E9C8AE0C395D793B20384156772@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE082E973E43@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> A development on the Hyde Road case - I sent in a fixogram to BCC http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1177207247:pc=PC_2081 and just got a call back from the officer who inspected the sunken trench. He said that the service trench was done by Brisbane Water section of BCC and not done to standard, so they have to fix it and he has referred it to them and he gave me a reference number (1597151) to follow up with them. So, if you have a problem with dodgy road repairs, report it and it looks like it will be followed up (I will have to keep an eye on this one). Pete From: Peter Whittle Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2009 11:01 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Wrecking bikelanes with road repairs ... while I'm on the "do cyclists really matter" theme, have you noticed how frequent and crappy are the road repairs on bikelanes? I wonder if we can get a new standard that they have to be perfectly flush, flat hotmix? Or even just a repair to "no worse than original"? Cases in point: - Outbound on Gladstone Road, numerous repairs, crappy standard, long duration of works - Outbound on Annerley Road, numerous repairs, lines not repainted, repairs of a lower standard than original road - Outbound on Hyde Road, Yeronga - long parallel pipeline ditch, repair is rough so you can't ride it comfortably, tar has slumped so there is a sharp edge that catches tires if you try to cross it ... a rock and a hard place. These are only standard. I wonder what BCC policy is in regard to maintenance contractors sustaining the asset? I should ask them one day. Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090723/0d0a61fc/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 23 00:56:08 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Thu Jul 23 00:56:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Wrecking bikelanes with road repairs In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE082E973E43@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: I?ve also had reasonable response to fixograms, a sunken piece of bikeway near Canossa. The initial ?fix? didn?t work, though, as they discovered a broken stormwater drain was causing the problem, so a more substantial maintenance issue was logged, for attention when the time is ripe, I guess. BTW, I see the Corso is being worked over, with lots of concrete being laid down and hints that the tarmac of the road will soon be covered with yellow bikes. More concrete to run into when cornering... Should improve our technical skills. J. On 23/7/09 3:33 PM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: > A development on the Hyde Road case ? I sent in a fixogram to BCC > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1177207247:pc=PC_2081 > and just got a call back from the officer who inspected the sunken trench. He > said that the service trench was done by Brisbane Water section of BCC and not > done to standard, so they have to fix it and he has referred it to them and he > gave me a reference number (1597151) to follow up with them. > > So, if you have a problem with dodgy road repairs, report it and it looks like > it will be followed up (I will have to keep an eye on this one). > > Pete > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090723/b97447b9/attachment.htm From listjunkie at pobox.com Thu Jul 30 05:11:43 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Thu Jul 30 05:17:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper In-Reply-To: <20090718234437.GQMX21119.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <4A603FD5.1000809@pobox.com> <4A61848A.9030700@pobox.com> <20090718234437.GQMX21119.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <7D219C90-C78D-42BA-8D7E-BA6927E2F60A@pobox.com> On 19/07/2009, at 9:44 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: > It seems fairly clear then that the level or extent of "assistance" > should result in a vehicle that has performance characteristics in > relation to maximum speed, acceleration and hill-climbing power/ > speed, etc that are roughly equivalent to that of an average cyclist > on a fairly common bicycle. Not at all "clear" to me! It seems to me that the people who want to be an "average cyclist" already ride a normal bicycle. The primary attraction to me of electric bikes is their potential for getting all those single-occupant cars off the road. Doing this means allowing: * electric bikes that can carry fairly significant commuter cargo and/or * electric bikes that let you ride in work clothes without getting too sweaty Wimpy 250W bikes where you MUST pedal to get assistance don't achieve either of the above goals. I've met a few people who commute along at 20kmh on no-pedal bikes, wearing their office clothes. I don't think they're harming anyone, and I can't see ANY point in forcing them to pedal. No-pedal bikes aren't for me (i don't have the patience to sit at 20 when I can pedal at 30), but I support those who want that. > Without some kind of accepted broad principles such as those above, > trying to negotiate details re controls, performance, power, etc let > alone some kind of standard will inevitably end up with a totally > unsatisfactory outcome. > Policy needs to be goal driven. It seems the current trend of nobbling electric bikes is motivated by vested interests, Shadowy Oil Conspiracies or old-guard "cars cars cars" RTA bureaucrats. For me the goal is to get rid of single-occupant cars, revitalise inner cities, and save the planet. Strangling the e-bike market in the cradle won't do this. --chris