[bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15
kim
kim at teegee.com.au
Sat Jan 24 10:11:31 CST 2009
Aaron, I think you have taken my 'mention' of a speed 'warning' a little
out of context. What I had mentioned was a conditional application of a
speed limit/warning which would apply if the rider was not wearing a
helmet on a shared path. That would not affect your need to travel on
these shared paths at a speed of more than 30 kph, which you have
determined is safe because you would be wearing your helmet.
This kind of conditional rule is used in other classes of vehicles.
Motorised mobility vehicles - limited to 10kph on these paths, no helmet
needed. Mopeds, limited to 80kph - no bike license needed. Delivery
vehicles, less than 20 kph and starting and stopping frequently - no
seatbelt required. Mowers and tractors designed for off road use allowed
to use roadways for short distances with limited speed. No seat belts
required in route buses. Bus passengers allowed to stand unrestrained on
route buses provided it is less than 20km distance and under 100kph. Now
all of those situations are not the case because they are risk free, any
study could show there was _some_ risk involved.
Life is full of risks, we don't mitigate them all or we would not get
out of bed each day. I am not going to dispute that there is some
identified risk in travelling, even at very low speed on a bicycle with
or without a helmet. I am sure we have identified a non-zero risk
because somebody has made the effort, but I think we could find the same
risks if someone for example bothered to study the risks of tripping on
an escalator without wearing a helmet vs the same wearing a helmet; and
if someone made those findings, would we mandate the wearing of helmets
on escalators? I think you will also find that there is 'plenty' of
evidence to show that unrestrained heads in motor vehicles are a very
common cause of neck injury and yet we don't mandate all the protection
that a race car driver would use, such as cervical support collars.
You may however be suggesting that head injury of un-helmeted riders
travelling below a certain speed is over-represented and thus helmet use
even at these speeds is indicated. Is that the case? I would be
surprised tho that this would be the case while we don't mandate helmet
use for similarly slow wheeled recreational toys such as skates,
skateboards and scooters which I would have thought were more risk prone.
While you argue that your helmet mitigates your head injury risk as you
travel at over 30kph on these shared paths, does it also mitigate the
risk to other path users? I would imagine that there is some body of
evidence which shows that the severity of injury after a cyclist
pedestrian interaction on one of these paths is somewhat proportional to
the cyclists speed. If that was the case would you be then applying your
same logic and travelling at the least risk speed or would you be
discretionary in how much risk you took or exposed other users to?
I think for some car owners, part of the benefit of owning a V8 is being
able to go faster than someone else too, and many would also argue that
it is safe to do 200 down the M1 at 9:30 at night, but we don't like to
encourage that thinking.
I do favour your sentiment on the expressways for bikes notion but that
is unlikely to be in the form of a shared path. The western freeway
bikeway was once a kind of expressway to Toowong but it is slowly losing
that status to that of a shared path status. Coronation Drive once
featured dedicated lanes that were also available for cyclists to travel
at up to 60kph if they could but that got Canned. The ICB once afforded
a great cross city express bikeway in the form of the emergency stopping
lane but that also got Canned. Altho it is nice to dream about new
bikeways, most of the issues we are talking about apply to our existing
bikeways 'network' of which we can do very little to change.
Perhaps if these bikes could be classed as recreational toys then the
helmet issue would not be an issue. It's kind of strange how the only
difference between a scooter and a bicycle (ridden slowly) is how
directly your leg power is applied to the ground and yet the helmet
requirement is different.
kim
Aaron Wray wrote:
> My two cents. I do not support any moves to relax helmet laws even if
> it means less people riding. There is way too much evidence to show
> they are effective at reducing the chance of brain injury in an
> accident. It only takes a gumby low speed accident to hit your head on
> a pavement and kill or injure yourself. And my taxes will pay for
> their stupidity.
>
> Any idea of a speed limit on paths I also object to. Part of the
> benefit of riding is getting somewhere faster than a car. I want free
> flowing paths not artificially reduced speeds because of poor design
> or laziness on behalf of the government. I would prefer to see
> seperation or provide on and off road facilities than reduce speeds. I
> know how to ride safely in heavy pedestrian and cyclist traffic
> putting a speed limit in will not help. I read a quote from a person
> from a queensland cycling peak body that said 30kmh was too fast on a
> shared path. Twaddle what is that based on? If i'm riding at 9pm I
> can't do 30 down corro drive bikeway? If we had decent express ways in
> for cyclists like cars to that would go part of the way to making
> cycling more attractive alternative to being a cager.
>
> Anyway that's my two cents for now.
> Aaron
>
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: free Citibikes in Brisbane (kim)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:15:42 +1000
> > From: kim <kim at teegee.com.au>
> > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane
> > To: BikeQld <bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au>
> > Message-ID: <4978F00E.9090505 at teegee.com.au>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow no
> > helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed limit
> > (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or other
> > recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear
> helmets. I
> > notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles for short haul
> > commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets either on the
> road or
> > when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. Police seem to turn a
> blind
> > eye to this and I have watched as several cyclists rode past a well
> > resourced RBT without helmets and did barely attract a glance from the
> > NSW police. I think that if the helmet law was rigidly enforced that
> > there would be far less cycle usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place
> > for a low speed limit too, although this is not in place, I do see a
> lot
> > of road being claimed back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an
> > apparently ad-hoc manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is
> > about. I think the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in
> > and thru if it was more like Byron.
> > I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who
> > travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the long
> > walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the then
> > QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St Bris
> > stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes on that
> > route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to match the
> > demand in both directions.
> > I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily adjusted
> > to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared design to keep
> > them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever be for
> flatlander use.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian Lister wrote:
> > > Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles.
> There
> > > are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web
> > > site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out
> > > there?
> > >
> > > Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme
> > > will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not
> clear
> > > but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that,
> > > it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down
> the
> > > opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead
> and
> > > carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of
> the
> > > bikes.
> > >
> > > Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a
> > > higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation
> that
> > > BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That
> doesn't
> > > seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure
> > > will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too
> > > though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in
> > > Australia leaning that way any time soon.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/
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> > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15
> > ***************************************
>
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