From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sat Jan 3 00:05:56 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sat Jan 3 00:09:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bicycles and bus-titution on rail Caboolture to Beerburrum Message-ID: <365121.92455.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Just curiously, I checked the QR City Train website to confirm that the rail shutdown for the re-allignment onto the new Caboolture to Beerburrum section had been completed and trains (and hence bicycle carriage) had resumed and the bus-titution had ended. There was no mention of even the major bustitution having been scheduled from Christmas to New Year, although notification of extra services for Christmas Day (before the bustitution) are listed. Did the Translink website actually list the bustitution and therefore no bicycle carriage period between Christmas and New Year? Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From emma at foodconnect.com.au Sun Jan 4 01:52:13 2009 From: emma at foodconnect.com.au (Emma-Kate Rose) Date: Sun Jan 4 01:52:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <200901031800.n03I0558023122@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200901031800.n03I0558023122@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <6DE08471-4691-4A6E-BDB7-16AC8FDEBCBE@foodconnect.com.au> There was no mention of the track work on the Transinfo site. We rode to Woodford Folk Festival from Beerburrum Station this year and got caught out with the closures - not fun at all, especially with four kids ranging from 6 months to 8 years! Mind you, the buses they put on for us were great and accommodated our cargo bike nicely. Today's Topics: 1. Bicycles and bus-titution on rail Caboolture to Beerburrum (mich rolling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:05:56 -0800 (PST) From: mich rolling Subject: [bikeqld] Bicycles and bus-titution on rail Caboolture to Beerburrum To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <365121.92455.qm@web44816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Just curiously, I checked the QR City Train website to confirm that the rail shutdown for the re-allignment onto the new Caboolture to Beerburrum section had been completed and trains (and hence bicycle carriage) had resumed and the bus-titution had ended. There was no mention of even the major bustitution having been scheduled from Christmas to New Year, although notification of extra services for Christmas Day (before the bustitution) are listed. Did the Translink website actually list the bustitution and therefore no bicycle carriage period between Christmas and New Year? Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1 ************************************** Emma-Kate Rose 29/91 Dornoch Terrace || Highgate Hill Qld 4101 07 3844-7075 || 0411 595 831 emma@foodconnect.com.au From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Sun Jan 4 20:32:27 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Jan 4 20:32:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] FW: Brisbane Airport Corporation: Master Plan released for public comment Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0384FB8EF3@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> ________________________________ From: Marissa [mailto:marissa@bacmajorprojects.com.au] Sent: Monday, 5 January 2009 12:22 PM To: Marissa Subject: Brisbane Airport Corporation: Master Plan released for public comment Good morning, Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) has released its future plans for Brisbane Airport in its latest Master Plan for Queensland's premier aviation gateway. Focusing on sustainability, the 2009 Preliminary Draft Master Plan features public transport facilities, cycle and pedestrian links, new roads, car parks, significant terminal expansions, commercial developments and the approved New Parallel Runway. The document is now available for the community to view and comment on until 30 March 2009. In conjunction with the Master Plan, BAC has also prepared its 2009 Draft Airport Environment Strategy, which is also now available for community review and comment. View the documents: * Online at www.brisbaneairport.com.au * By requesting a free CD copy of the Master Plan * By purchasing a printed copy of the Master Plan for $75.00 each (including GST and handling) * At various locations in the region, including Brisbane City Council libraries and BAC's head office at 11 The Circuit, Brisbane Airport Once the community has had the opportunity to comment on the Master Plan and Airport Environment Strategy, they will be submitted to the Australian Government for endorsement. For more information about the 2009 Preliminary Draft Master Plan and the 2009 Draft Airport Environment Strategy, visit www.brisbaneairport.com.au or call the Major Projects Information Line on 1800 737 075. Kind regards, Marissa Marissa Brazier on behalf of Brisbane Airport Corporation Phone: 1800 737 075 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090105/ff6cc031/attachment.htm From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Tue Jan 6 16:52:17 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Tue Jan 6 16:52:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track Message-ID: At least Adshel one of the companies that cause of some of the worst footpath conditions and pinch points thanks to their bus shelters has withdrawn.Bike share plan still on track Melissa Singer | January 6, 2009 - 2:01PM Brisbane's $1.2 million bike hire scheme will proceed as planned despite one of the leading bidders for the contract withdrawing from the process this morning. Adshel said it was forced to remove its bid for the contract to run the scheme, which would introduce 2000 public bikes to central Brisbane, due to "the deterioration of the global economic climate since the time the offer was first submitted". An Adshel spokeswoman told brisbanetimes.com.au that it had the know-how to run the scheme but lacked capital expenditure. One of Adshel's parent companies, Clear Channel, runs a bike hire scheme in Barcelona. "It [the Barcelona scheme] was implemented in a better financial climate," Adshel's spokeswoman said. But brisbanetimes.com.au understands JCDecaux was already the frontrunner for the tender, and is now almost guaranteed to win the contract. A Brisbane City Council spokesman said an announcement would be made before the end of January. "Brisbane City Council remains committed to the introduction of its planned Public Bike Sharing Scheme," the spokesman said. "The scheme is expected to be based upon similar projects already established in more than 40 international cities, including Paris and Barcelona, and is anticipated to incorporate up to 2000 bicycles." But Labor's Shayne Sutton said the council needed to reassure Brisbane residents that the tender process was still competitive. "The Lord Mayor must ensure that ratepayers receive value for money when awarding the contract for the project,'' she said. Adshel CEO Steve McCarthy encouraged Brisbane City Council to "critically assess the long-term viability of the bike scheme in the current market conditions". "Considering the appeal of the bike scheme project and the substantial time that both Adshel and the Brisbane City Council have invested so far, we regret that we cannot proceed with our offer due to conditions beyond our control," Mr McCarthy said. Adshel said it would have considered reapplying for a scaled back project, but the council said it would proceed with the scheme as originally planned. The bike hire scheme, part of the council's long-term transport plan, will see bikes at up to 150 stations from Newstead to the University of Queensland. Cr Sutton said the council also needed to confirm the roll-out date for the project, which was originally set for mid-2009. Adshel has an ongoing contract with Brisbane City Council to provide 840 bus shelters across the city. A JCDecaux spokesman referred all inquiries to Brisbane City Council. _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $40 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090107/4daeed1c/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Jan 6 18:06:41 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:06:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW great news. This surely should be a 'homegrown industry' and doesn't require the skills of Profits Inc. Bike retail margins are 3-4 times. There should be cash in this without too much fuss. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Aaron Wray Sent: January 7, 2009 8:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track At least Adshel one of the companies that cause of some of the worst footpath conditions and pinch points thanks to their bus shelters has withdrawn. Bike share plan still on track Melissa Singer | January 6, 2009 - 2:01PM Brisbane's $1.2 million bike hire scheme will proceed as planned despite one of the leading bidders for the contract withdrawing from the process this morning. Adshel said it was forced to remove its bid for the contract to run the scheme, which would introduce 2000 public bikes to central Brisbane, due to "the deterioration of the global economic climate since the time the offer was first submitted". An Adshel spokeswoman told brisbanetimes.com.au that it had the know-how to run the scheme but lacked capital expenditure. One of Adshel's parent companies, Clear Channel, runs a bike hire scheme in Barcelona. "It [the Barcelona scheme] was implemented in a better financial climate," Adshel's spokeswoman said. But brisbanetimes.com.au understands JCDecaux was already the frontrunner for the tender, and is now almost guaranteed to win the contract. A Brisbane City Council spokesman said an announcement would be made before the end of January. "Brisbane City Council remains committed to the introduction of its planned Public Bike Sharing Scheme," the spokesman said. "The scheme is expected to be based upon similar projects already established in more than 40 international cities, including Paris and Barcelona, and is anticipated to incorporate up to 2000 bicycles." But Labor's Shayne Sutton said the council needed to reassure Brisbane residents that the tender process was still competitive. "The Lord Mayor must ensure that ratepayers receive value for money when awarding the contract for the project,'' she said. Adshel CEO Steve McCarthy encouraged Brisbane City Council to "critically assess the long-term viability of the bike scheme in the current market conditions". "Considering the appeal of the bike scheme project and the substantial time that both Adshel and the Brisbane City Council have invested so far, we regret that we cannot proceed with our offer due to conditions beyond our control," Mr McCarthy said. Adshel said it would have considered reapplying for a scaled back project, but the council said it would proceed with the scheme as originally planned. The bike hire scheme, part of the council's long-term transport plan, will see bikes at up to 150 stations from Newstead to the University of Queensland. Cr Sutton said the council also needed to confirm the roll-out date for the project, which was originally set for mid-2009. Adshel has an ongoing contract with Brisbane City Council to provide 840 bus shelters across the city. A JCDecaux spokesman referred all inquiries to Brisbane City Council. _____ Sell your car for just $40 at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090107/00760f31/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Tue Jan 6 19:05:52 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Jan 6 19:06:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038501BE00@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> The Ads-Hell debacle should be a warning to council to get the contracts right this time. They sure didn't manage that with Ads-Hell and the occlusion they have caused to pathways. Wouldn't it be great if Council had specified some minimum clearances and had some comeback on the awful placements? The bike hire could be good, could be very good - but it needs to be well-managed or it could be bad. Pete ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2009 10:07 AM To: 'Aaron Wray'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track WOW great news. This surely should be a 'homegrown industry' and doesn't require the skills of Profits Inc. Bike retail margins are 3-4 times. There should be cash in this without too much fuss. Yani ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Aaron Wray Sent: January 7, 2009 8:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track At least Adshel one of the companies that cause of some of the worst footpath conditions and pinch points thanks to their bus shelters has withdrawn. Bike share plan still on track Melissa Singer | January 6, 2009 - 2:01PM Brisbane's $1.2 million bike hire scheme will proceed as planned despite one of the leading bidders for the contract withdrawing from the process this morning. Adshel said it was forced to remove its bid for the contract to run the scheme, which would introduce 2000 public bikes to central Brisbane, due to "the deterioration of the global economic climate since the time the offer was first submitted". An Adshel spokeswoman told brisbanetimes.com.au that it had the know-how to run the scheme but lacked capital expenditure. One of Adshel's parent companies, Clear Channel, runs a bike hire scheme in Barcelona. "It [the Barcelona scheme] was implemented in a better financial climate," Adshel's spokeswoman said. But brisbanetimes.com.au understands JCDecaux was already the frontrunner for the tender, and is now almost guaranteed to win the contract. A Brisbane City Council spokesman said an announcement would be made before the end of January. "Brisbane City Council remains committed to the introduction of its planned Public Bike Sharing Scheme," the spokesman said. "The scheme is expected to be based upon similar projects already established in more than 40 international cities, including Paris and Barcelona, and is anticipated to incorporate up to 2000 bicycles." But Labor's Shayne Sutton said the council needed to reassure Brisbane residents that the tender process was still competitive. "The Lord Mayor must ensure that ratepayers receive value for money when awarding the contract for the project,'' she said. Adshel CEO Steve McCarthy encouraged Brisbane City Council to "critically assess the long-term viability of the bike scheme in the current market conditions". "Considering the appeal of the bike scheme project and the substantial time that both Adshel and the Brisbane City Council have invested so far, we regret that we cannot proceed with our offer due to conditions beyond our control," Mr McCarthy said. Adshel said it would have considered reapplying for a scaled back project, but the council said it would proceed with the scheme as originally planned. The bike hire scheme, part of the council's long-term transport plan, will see bikes at up to 150 stations from Newstead to the University of Queensland. Cr Sutton said the council also needed to confirm the roll-out date for the project, which was originally set for mid-2009. Adshel has an ongoing contract with Brisbane City Council to provide 840 bus shelters across the city. A JCDecaux spokesman referred all inquiries to Brisbane City Council. ________________________________ Sell your car for just $40 at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090107/bd9c1f72/attachment-0001.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Wed Jan 7 04:40:03 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Wed Jan 7 04:41:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038501BE00@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <003901c970b4$50364d50$0301010a@Betty> Or it could have been an advantage to have ads-hell as the operator and requiring use of the footpath by cyclists for the scheme to make money. They might have had a less myopic view of the whole scene. I agree with the local thought. Can we get the successful tenderer to also do the bus shelters? Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive, anyway. http://256.com/gray/quotes/misc.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2009 11:06 AM To: akayani@aapt.net.au; 'Aaron Wray'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track The Ads-Hell debacle should be a warning to council to get the contracts right this time. They sure didn't manage that with Ads-Hell and the occlusion they have caused to pathways. Wouldn't it be great if Council had specified some minimum clearances and had some comeback on the awful placements? The bike hire could be good, could be very good - but it needs to be well-managed or it could be bad. Pete _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2009 10:07 AM To: 'Aaron Wray'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track WOW great news. This surely should be a 'homegrown industry' and doesn't require the skills of Profits Inc. Bike retail margins are 3-4 times. There should be cash in this without too much fuss. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Aaron Wray Sent: January 7, 2009 8:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track At least Adshel one of the companies that cause of some of the worst footpath conditions and pinch points thanks to their bus shelters has withdrawn. Bike share plan still on track Melissa Singer | January 6, 2009 - 2:01PM Brisbane's $1.2 million bike hire scheme will proceed as planned despite one of the leading bidders for the contract withdrawing from the process this morning. Adshel said it was forced to remove its bid for the contract to run the scheme, which would introduce 2000 public bikes to central Brisbane, due to "the deterioration of the global economic climate since the time the offer was first submitted". An Adshel spokeswoman told brisbanetimes.com.au that it had the know-how to run the scheme but lacked capital expenditure. One of Adshel's parent companies, Clear Channel, runs a bike hire scheme in Barcelona. "It [the Barcelona scheme] was implemented in a better financial climate," Adshel's spokeswoman said. But brisbanetimes.com.au understands JCDecaux was already the frontrunner for the tender, and is now almost guaranteed to win the contract. A Brisbane City Council spokesman said an announcement would be made before the end of January. "Brisbane City Council remains committed to the introduction of its planned Public Bike Sharing Scheme," the spokesman said. "The scheme is expected to be based upon similar projects already established in more than 40 international cities, including Paris and Barcelona, and is anticipated to incorporate up to 2000 bicycles." But Labor's Shayne Sutton said the council needed to reassure Brisbane residents that the tender process was still competitive. "The Lord Mayor must ensure that ratepayers receive value for money when awarding the contract for the project,'' she said. Adshel CEO Steve McCarthy encouraged Brisbane City Council to "critically assess the long-term viability of the bike scheme in the current market conditions". "Considering the appeal of the bike scheme project and the substantial time that both Adshel and the Brisbane City Council have invested so far, we regret that we cannot proceed with our offer due to conditions beyond our control," Mr McCarthy said. Adshel said it would have considered reapplying for a scaled back project, but the council said it would proceed with the scheme as originally planned. The bike hire scheme, part of the council's long-term transport plan, will see bikes at up to 150 stations from Newstead to the University of Queensland. Cr Sutton said the council also needed to confirm the roll-out date for the project, which was originally set for mid-2009. Adshel has an ongoing contract with Brisbane City Council to provide 840 bus shelters across the city. A JCDecaux spokesman referred all inquiries to Brisbane City Council. _____ Sell your car for just $40 at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090107/7f18bdf4/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Jan 7 05:48:57 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Jan 7 05:49:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track In-Reply-To: <003901c970b4$50364d50$0301010a@Betty> References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038501BE00@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <003901c970b4$50364d50$0301010a@Betty> Message-ID: "Can we get the successful tenderer to also do the bus shelters?" Can we get out hands on enough dynamite to blast the advertising panels off the lot of them? And the stupid signs that are placed too close to them. I think this hire concept CAME from Adshell in the first place and was sold to council with the only company that was capable of providing the infrastructure as described being Adshell. I'm not convinced it would be that great. Are shopping trolleys all over the footpath great? http://ridethisbike.com/2007/03/self-service-bicycle-rental-programs.html We assume this is a good thing but it could have a lot of negatives. Adshells only interest is $$$. It's not a community exercise. Is there a downside? Users report that some stations have no room to return a bike at times (which can lead to charges accruing for unintended usage). The rental bikes are heavier and thus can be less fun to ride than other bikes. Also, there is the risk that the free bikes can adversely affect sales & service income at local bike shops; however, data indicates that the rentals are boosting bike sales by drawing people back to cycling. On another point. who do you think is behind that mega chain of huge bike shops currently being advertising. Super Cheap! The bikes would want to be better than the sanders, I bought one of them and it lasted 2 jobs. I like little bike shops with local owners and staff who are cyclists first and just happen to work in a bike shop second. I like that you can hire a real mountain bike and not some heavy shite thing. Brave new world is not going to do it for cycling. Next will be rego, then insurance, then fines, then .05 on the footpath and all the rest of the crap. "Where is your 'bike' license mate!" Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Norm Morwood Sent: January 7, 2009 8:40 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike share plan still on track Or it could have been an advantage to have ads-hell as the operator and requiring use of the footpath by cyclists for the scheme to make money. They might have had a less myopic view of the whole scene. I agree with the local thought. Can we get the successful tenderer to also do the bus shelters? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090107/6096e059/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Jan 8 02:23:40 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Jan 8 02:23:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack of it Message-ID: <20090108082245.QIK631.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Could the BCC Citibike proposal be yet another example of the reliance on commercial deals where the main concept is not supported by the small print (and by the 'real' agenda)? MY................. >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:03:29 -0800 (PST) >Subject: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack of it > >Richard Layman >Citizens Planning Coalition >http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com > > > >Wednesday, January 07, 2009 > > > > > >Systems integration and the lack of it > > > >It happens that one of the things I am interested in is the >diffusion of innovation. In college (not required for class), I >happened to come across the work of >Everett >Rogers, who was a leader in the study of innovation and its adoption >(first in the seminal text, Communication of Innovations, then in >the expanded version Diffusion of Innovations). His dissertation >studied the adoption of agricultural innovation. (Note that the >field of community development is derived from Agricultural >Extension, and the creation of that model of technical assistance >starting in the 1860s.) Malcolm Gladwell and Geoffrey Moore have >extended and amplified this work. > >If you are interested in technology, I am sure you are aware of the >classic discussion of >VHS vs. Beta (or by >extension Windows-based computers vs. the Macintosh) in terms of >success. Another example is VHF vs. UHF television broadcasting (in >short, Dumont didn't get rich, even though his stations were the >basis of what became Fox Television decades later), or the failure >of AM Stereo, because the U.S. government under the Reagan >Administration wasn't willing to pick a winning technology, it left >that to the market. > >I bring this up because we are now running into that problem in DC >with bicycle sharing. Washcycle points out, in >"Say >Hello to DC's Third Public Bicycle Program!" that the National Park >Service has created its own bicycle sharing program, as has the U.S. >Congress. These are bicycle "fleet" programs, like DC Government's >small program for employees. Both are in addition to the nascent >SmartBike DC program that launched in August as North America's >first public bicycle sharing program modelled after successful >programs in Europe such as Velib. > >SmartBikeDC station, 7th and F Streets NW, Washington, DC > >DC Smart Bike station. > >When the U.S. Congress system was proposed (discussed in >"U.S. >House of Representatives to launch bikesharing program"), Washcycle >and I counter-proposed that an institutional form of membership in >DC's SmartBike program should be >created, that institutions could buy into the program by adding >bicycle sharing stations, and have different terms of use and >payment. I don't know if that idea is being considered. I know that >one of the problems with advertising-supported systems like DC's (by >Adshel) >is that the contract terms are very specific and the ability to be >flexible is constrained by the contract provisions. > >I find this to be another example of deploying different >technologies, rather than agreeing to a common system or platform. >It doesn't surprise me that federal agencies and local government >can't or won't work together. I don't know if this yields other >lessons that can be employed by other cities considering launching >bicycle sharing systems. > >My advice is to build institutional buy in before launching the >system, come up with a way for organizations to have different kinds >of memberships within the same system (i.e., colleges, businesses, >and government agencies), and develop a common platform. > >Another problem in the DC region (and a problem in Paris too), is >because of insurance requirements and because of the three different >political jurisdictions (DC, MD, and VA), there isn't a common >system across jurisdictions. (Although the bikes aren't styled in a >way that you would want to go on long trips...) This also limits >take up or acceptance and diffusion of the innovation. > >Also see the past blog entry (paper reprint): > >Ideas >for Making Cycling Irresistible in DC > >Bikesharing at Adams Morgan Day 2008 > >Bikesharing at Adams Morgan Day 2008 > >__._,_.___ >Messages >in this topic (1) >Reply >(via web post) | >Start >a new topic >Messages >| >Files >| >Photos >| >Links >| >Database >| >Polls >| >Calendar > >Check in here via homepage at >http://www.citybike.newmobility.org >To post message to group: WorldCityBike@yahoogroups.com >Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole >(Might it be that your note is best sent to one person?) >MARKETPLACE > >From >kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods > >Yahoo! Groups > >Change >settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) >Change settings via email: >Digest>Switch delivery to Daily Digest | >Delivery Format: Traditional>Switch format to Traditional >Visit >Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms >of Use | >Unsubscribe >Recent Activity >Visit >Your Group >Yahoo! Finance > >It's >Now Personal > >Guides, news, > >advice & more. >Weight Loss Group > >on >Yahoo! Groups > >Get support and > >make friends online. >Find helpful tips > >for >Moderators > >on the Yahoo! > >Groups team blog. >. > >__,_._,___ >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: >7/01/2009 5:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090108/7f234c6f/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Jan 8 02:44:18 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Jan 8 02:44:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack ofit In-Reply-To: <20090108082245.QIK631.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090108082245.QIK631.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: And it's all about what??? Cycling and the environment? Or outdoor display advertising on wheels! My god that look like crap bikes to ride! Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: January 8, 2009 6:24 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack ofit Could the BCC Citibike proposal be yet another example of the reliance on commercial deals where the main concept is not supported by the small print (and by the 'real' agenda)? MY................. SmartBikeDC station, 7th and F Streets NW, Washington, DC DC Smart Bike station. Ideas for Making Cycling Irresistible in DC Bikesharing at Adams Morgan Day 2008 Bikesharing at Adams Morgan Day 2008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090108/ea42e13d/attachment-0001.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Jan 8 21:00:42 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Jan 8 21:01:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack ofit In-Reply-To: <20090108082245.QIK631.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090108082245.QIK631.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038557393C@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> My observation in Stockholm, Paris and I think in Berlin and Frankfurt was that there were large parking areas of these strange bikes, with not many people using them. They were taking up space, and a lot of this was advertising, but most people riding bikes seemed to have brought their own. So when I see the comment "successful programs in Europe such as Velib", I would like to see an analysis of why they are successful, and for whom? In all these places in Europe, people ride bikes anyway. There is room for them, and the traffic is calmer. The people tend to live in apartments within, or close to the city, not out in sprawling suburbs accessible only by car, mass public transport, and fitter cyclists. There are thousands of "city bikes" ridden by people in their work clothes, who don't have to shower when they pull into where ever they are going. So what is to be accomplished in Brisbane with this free/rent-a bike system? Would I catch a train to Central, then grab one of these bikes and trundle down to QUT at Gardens Point? Or would I walk out of QUT-GP, grab a bike and pootle up for a drink with friends at Eagle St? Maybe, but only because I am experienced and game enough to ride on the roads in Brisbane - there certainly is not space on the footpaths; I would be worried for less experienced cyclists to try it. I would do it in two shakes in the European cities, and I would do it without concern for a helmet like the folk there. Frankly I think if the time was right for this proposal in Brisbane, there would already be many bikes on the city streets, and there aren't. Many other things need to be fixed first, before joining forces with the advertisers to provide free bikes, when the commercial partner really doesn't care whether they are ridden. This really seems to be a bit backassackwards and that someone is getting cosy with Ads-Hell or their ilk. Pete ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2009 6:24 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack ofit Could the BCC Citibike proposal be yet another example of the reliance on commercial deals where the main concept is not supported by the small print (and by the 'real' agenda)? MY................. Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:03:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [WorldCityBike] Systems integration and the lack of it Richard Layman Citizens Planning Coalition http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com Wednesday, January 07, 2009 Systems integration and the lack of it It happens that one of the things I am interested in is the diffusion of innovation. In college (not required for class), I happened to come across the work of Everett Rogers, who was a leader in the study of innovation and its adoption (first in the seminal text, Communication of Innovations, then in the expanded version Diffusion of Innovations). His dissertation studied the adoption of agricultural innovation. (Note that the field of community development is derived from Agricultural Extension, and the creation of that model of technical assistance starting in the 1860s.) Malcolm Gladwell and Geoffrey Moore have extended and amplified this work. If you are interested in technology, I am sure you are aware of the classic discussion of VHS vs. Beta (or by extension Windows-based computers vs. the Macintosh) in terms of success. Another example is VHF vs. UHF television broadcasting (in short, Dumont didn't get rich, even though his stations were the basis of what became Fox Television decades later), or the failure of AM Stereo, because the U.S. government under the Reagan Administration wasn't willing to pick a winning technology, it left that to the market. I bring this up because we are now running into that problem in DC with bicycle sharing. Washcycle points out, in " Say Hello to DC's Third Public Bicycle Program!" that the National Park Service has created its own bicycle sharing program, as has the U.S. Congress. These are bicycle "fleet" programs, like DC Government's small program for employees. Both are in addition to the nascent SmartBike DC program that launched in August as North America's first public bicycle sharing program modelled after successful programs in Europe such as Velib. [http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2257/2864000284_938886503b_m.jpg] DC Smart Bike station. When the U.S. Congress system was proposed (discussed in " U.S. House of Representatives to launch bikesharing program"), Washcycle and I counter-proposed that an institutional form of membership in DC's SmartBike program should be created, that institutions could buy into the program by adding bicycle sharing stations, and have different terms of use and payment. I don't know if that idea is being considered. I know that one of the problems with advertising-supported systems like DC's (by Adshel) is that the contract terms are very specific and the ability to be flexible is constrained by the contract provisions. I find this to be another example of deploying different technologies, rather than agreeing to a common system or platform. It doesn't surprise me that federal agencies and local government can't or won't work together. I don't know if this yields other lessons that can be employed by other cities considering launching bicycle sharing systems. My advice is to build institutional buy in before launching the system, come up with a way for organizations to have different kinds of memberships within the same system (i.e., colleges, businesses, and government agencies), and develop a common platform. Another problem in the DC region (and a problem in Paris too), is because of insurance requirements and because of the three different political jurisdictions (DC, MD, and VA), there isn't a common system across jurisdictions. (Although the bikes aren't styled in a way that you would want to go on long trips...) This also limits take up or acceptance and diffusion of the innovation. Also see the past blog entry (paper reprint): Ideas for Making Cycling Irresistible in DC [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/2863189731_1b4ee9ab6e_m.jpg] Bikesharing at Adams Morgan Day 2008 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Calendar Check in here via homepage at http://www.citybike.newmobility.org To post message to group: WorldCityBike@yahoogroups.com Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole (Might it be that your note is best sent to one person?) MARKETPLACE >From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Weight Loss Group on Yahoo! Groups Get support and make friends online. Find helpful tips for Moderators on the Yahoo! Groups team blog. . __,_._,___ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: 7/01/2009 5:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090109/443fe66a/attachment-0001.htm From adsliif2 at tpg.com.au Sun Jan 11 15:41:37 2009 From: adsliif2 at tpg.com.au (John Nightingale) Date: Sun Jan 11 15:41:51 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Men on bicycles: New York Times editorial Message-ID: Editorial Men on Bicycles By LAWRENCE DOWNES Published: January 10, 2009 A well-worn landscape like Long Island?s yields few surprises to the driver?s gaze. Shops cluster by size and species: pizza with bagels and nail salons, Home Depot with Old Navy. But one roadside incongruity that always unnerves me is the sight of a person outside the shell of a car on purpose ? like a man pedaling slowly beside a highway on a bicycle. Bicyclists and suburbs are an uneasy fit. I don?t mean the racing bikers who swarm like neon-colored beetles, hogging the middle of the road. I?m talking about the guys without helmets, on beat-up mountain bikes: restaurant workers wearing windbreakers over white dress shirts and ties; men in sweatshirts and baseball caps riding home from the store, plastic shopping bags hanging awkwardly off the handlebars. Such sights are evidence of a valiant adaptation to a hostile environment. For immigrant workers, as with so many of us in the suburbs, life boils down to the job, the bed and the travel between. But when you live in a landscape designed for cars, and you are poor, and it is too far to walk to work, and there?s no bus to take you there, the only option is two wheels. This is what is cheap and effective. It can also be deadly. On Christmas Day, a car going at least 80 miles per hour on Route 111 in Central Islip hit a bicyclist, Hector Rapalo. The driver sped off. Mr. Rapalo, a 39-year-old Honduran immigrant who worked at a pizza shop, died. Police said that the collision may or may not have been an accident, but that the driver surely knew that he or she had struck someone. Immigrants ask for little more than the opportunity to work so they can send money home. Their lives are quiet but precarious, in a place that accepts their labor but offers little warmth or welcome. An inveterate hostility sometimes sinks into brutality, as in the fatal stabbing in Patchogue last November of Marcelo Lucero, an Ecuadorean immigrant set upon by a gang of teenagers. The accidents they suffer go unnoticed, except when carnage briefly makes the news: Santos Javier Ramos, 21, a bicyclist killed by a car in Selden; Enrique Aguilar-Gamez, 26, fatally struck by a minivan while bicycling in Copiague; Adolfo Reyes, 42, a day laborer badly injured by a hit-and-run driver while on foot in Holtsville. The police in that case suspected a hate crime, because there were no skid marks or evidence that the driver slowed down after Mr. Reyes flew into his windshield, fracturing his skull, collarbone and arm. ____________________________________________________________________________ The 'invisible' and unrepresented cyclists: Brisbane also has plenty of them, poorly prepared for road conditions that give no assistance to cyclists, on roads rarely cycled by the lycra set and not served by any lobby group to argue for cycle lanes and safe routes to factories. I imagine it is as bad in Australia's other cities. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Jan 15 19:06:17 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Jan 15 19:06:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Suburban cyclists 'racing without road rules' | theage.com.au Message-ID: http://www.theage.com.au/national/suburban-cyclists-racing-without-road- rules-20090115-7i77.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090116/58b8cf17/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Jan 19 19:28:31 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Jan 19 19:28:48 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bill Would Allow Bicyclists to Legally Roll Through Stop Signs | Travel & Outdoors | New West Network Message-ID: http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/bill_would_allow_bicyclists_to_lega lly_roll_through_stop_signs/C146/L41/ R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090120/696e5c9e/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Jan 19 19:42:12 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Jan 19 19:43:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bill Would Allow Bicyclists to Legally Roll Through Stop Signs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090120113829.J1506@singha.lister.id.au> Interesting. The writer doesn't sound too hopeful about the bill's chances of being passed, though. Closer to home, does anybody know what the current state is of the talk over the last couple of years of allowing cyclists to cycle across a zebra or signalised pedestrian crossing? I haven't heard much recently, and the continued rollout of bicycle lanterns at crossings around the place doesn't bode well for that one :-/ Cheers, Ian On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Richard Hockey wrote: > http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/bill_would_allow_bicyclists_to_lega > lly_roll_through_stop_signs/C146/L41/ > > > > R > > From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Jan 21 21:35:47 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Jan 21 21:34:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane Message-ID: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... Just heard the Lord Mayor announcing that BCC has signed a contract with JCDecaux ... all sounds good but no details found yet. MY ................................. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Jan 21 21:41:41 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Jan 21 21:41:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: http://www.westender.com.au/news/360 R -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2009 1:36 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane Hi all ... Just heard the Lord Mayor announcing that BCC has signed a contract with JCDecaux ... all sounds good but no details found yet. MY ................................. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From j at jamver.id.au Wed Jan 21 22:05:20 2009 From: j at jamver.id.au (James Lever) Date: Wed Jan 21 22:05:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: The Lord Mayor "said the bike hire scheme and the new shared cycleways would cement Brisbane?s reputation as Australia?s most bicycle- friendly city." Oh, my sides hurt, that's hilarious! I hope this is implying that the new initiatives will mean that Brisbane will at least start to become a noticeable contender rather than horrible backwater. Hopefully it will uncement our reputation as Australia's most bicycle- UNfriendly city! cheers, James From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 22:32:28 2009 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Wed Jan 21 22:32:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: 2009/1/22 James Lever : > The Lord Mayor "said the bike hire scheme and the new shared cycleways would > cement Brisbane's reputation as Australia's most bicycle-friendly city." > Oh, my sides hurt, that's hilarious! Indeed. Gales of Derisive Laughter. Then again, maybe the City is quite friendly and just being "managed" and populated by the ignorant and condescending and generally-antithetical-to-cycling-as-transport... I'm pretty sure some of the buildings and trees and bridges and suchlike are fond of cyclists and cycling. As much as an inanimate object can be said to be fond of anything. Didn't realise that Can't-Do was an Animist. S. From matt at people.net.au Wed Jan 21 23:34:45 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Wed Jan 21 23:34:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Reflective Tape Message-ID: <6918.1232602485@people.net.au> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } Well - it's been a while since I last posted (and many would be glad about that....) Question: There was apparently a place on the southside (Rocklea?) that specialised in reflective tape and safety gear. Does anyone remember the name of the place? I've been spending more time on 2 wheels that has a motor of late and are about to mount some panniers on the rear - need to replace the dodgy reflectors with something a big more noticeable. Yeah - I know... not quite the same thing as riding my pushy but I'll be buggered if I want to try riding that back from Adelaide in 2 days! (like I did on this one....) Also: If anyone knows of an Atala frame (around 54cm) going for sale - I'd appreciate the info. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/a3ae90ee/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Jan 22 01:32:35 2009 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Jan 22 01:32:52 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: LOL my goodness I wonder if that should be wet cement? Or cement blocks at the bottom of the river. Maybe someone can interview the City to clarify its position on this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sebastian Tauchmann" To: "Bikeqld" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > 2009/1/22 James Lever : >> The Lord Mayor "said the bike hire scheme and the new shared cycleways >> would >> cement Brisbane's reputation as Australia's most bicycle-friendly city." > >> Oh, my sides hurt, that's hilarious! > > Indeed. Gales of Derisive Laughter. > > Then again, maybe the City is quite friendly and just being "managed" > and populated by the ignorant and condescending and > generally-antithetical-to-cycling-as-transport... > > I'm pretty sure some of the buildings and trees and bridges and > suchlike are fond of cyclists and cycling. As much as an inanimate > object can be said to be fond of anything. > > Didn't realise that Can't-Do was an Animist. > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Jan 22 04:35:03 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Thu Jan 22 04:35:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <736B9B90-58E0-421C-8125-96439C51022F@bigpond.com> On 22/01/2009, at 14:32, Sebastian Tauchmann wrote: > Didn't realise that Can't-Do was an Animist. Oh, I just love it. I shall keep a sharp eye out for any sign of feathers or entrails at the next press conference I have to endure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/0f025d94/attachment.htm From airportbug at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 05:42:07 2009 From: airportbug at gmail.com (Airport BUG) Date: Thu Jan 22 05:42:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> HI Michael et al If you are interested, I snapped a photo of one of the hire bikes on display at the media launch in Brisbane Square today... Link to photo : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090122/ Mitch On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Michael Yeates wrote: > Hi all ... > > Just heard the Lord Mayor announcing that BCC has signed a contract with > JCDecaux ... all sounds good but no details found yet. > > MY ................................. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > -- Airport BUG airportbug@gmail.com http://airportbug.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/c1690f06/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Jan 22 06:19:49 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Jan 22 06:19:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0FF68E1F993646D19B23982087864596@maud> OMG it?s a girl?s bike. I?m not getting on one of those. Free for the first ? hour but no mention of what happens after that. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Airport BUG Sent: January 22, 2009 9:42 PM To: Michael Yeates Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane HI Michael et al If you are interested, I snapped a photo of one of the hire bikes on display at the media launch in Brisbane Square today... Link to photo : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090122/ Mitch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/482619bc/attachment-0001.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Jan 21 20:31:14 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Jan 22 06:35:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4977DA72.7060408@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/abcebf2e/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Jan 22 09:30:10 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Jan 22 09:30:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane Message-ID: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I support the Citibike scheme! There, I have said it; on this I support CanDo. I still think his/council approach to providing cycle access around his tunnel portals sucks and indicates a Swiss Cheese mentality when it comes to the universal application of Active Transport principles. There is an interesting divide emerging in the Readers Comments sections of the Brisbane Times and the Courier Mail. BT readers are generally much more supportive of the Citibike idea than Courier Mail readers. (Did the Courier pick up the old Daily Telegraph demographic?) Courier readers seem to have read the first paragraph about comparing costs and fired off a 'it'll never work here' email, BT readers got to the $20 helmet bit and then started typing. Alison Sandy has written an article so unbalanced in its comparison of comparative costs, and of the overall intention of the scheme (to shuttle around the city between offices, coffee shops or over the bridges to South Bank) that she is unlikely to be offered a job by a broadsheet. Enjoy the tabloids baby! Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Jan 22 10:01:09 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Jan 22 10:01:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 'it'll never work here' 'oh no it can't be done' 'we tried it before and it doesn't work' That's pretty typical. I hope it works but I hope I never have to ride one. As by works I mean that people use it a few times and then buy a decent bike and make an effort to avoid the car. You are pretty much guaranteed that it will work as it's been tested and proven else where. Let's just hope that 6,000 bikes ridden by people who don't normally cycle and parked around the place don't start some fuss happening about bike parking. I see that as the only risk to us. If it fails for Council no one will know as they never report true figures. Only a version of stats that suits their purpose. Yani From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 14:53:56 2009 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Thu Jan 22 14:54:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 2009/1/23 mich rolling : > I support the Citibike scheme! There, I have said it; on this I support CanDo. Well, I'd be happier if it was fully ratepayer-owned instead of adding yet more advertising to Brisbane's visual pollution. Bike hire's fine. > There is an interesting divide emerging in the Readers Comments sections > of the Brisbane Times and the Courier Mail. BT readers are generally much > more supportive of the Citibike idea than Courier Mail readers. Mich, I know you like mentioning C-M and BT articles and such, and it'd would be wonderful if you could include the links to the stories mentioned when you do. That'd help everyone to know what you're talking about, rather than having to do extra clicky-clicky to get our browsers to their websites through google. For the stuff you mention here and in no particular order: http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/will_you_make_u.html http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/bikeaway_upgrad.html http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/improve-bikeways-for-new-hire-scheme-cycling-group/2009/01/22/1232471495921.html http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/on-your-bikes-brisbane/2009/01/22/1232471476891.html http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24949645-952,00.html (okay, some bonus links thrown but, but they are related.) > (Did the Courier pick up the old Daily Telegraph demographic?) The C-M demo is the same demo as the Daily Telegraph in Sydney and the Herald Sun in Melbourne... Cheers, S From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Jan 22 15:14:28 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Jan 22 15:14:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <9083b07a0901220342kb998365icdeb69e2757f0448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301c97cd6$6b4db4b0$41e91e10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Similar to ones I saw last year in Paris and Stockholm. P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Airport BUG Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2009 9:42 PM To: Michael Yeates Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane HI Michael et al If you are interested, I snapped a photo of one of the hire bikes on display at the media launch in Brisbane Square today... Link to photo : http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090122/ Mitch On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Michael Yeates wrote: Hi all ... Just heard the Lord Mayor announcing that BCC has signed a contract with JCDecaux ... all sounds good but no details found yet. MY ................................. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -- Airport BUG airportbug@gmail.com http://airportbug.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090123/cca58d72/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Jan 22 15:22:26 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Jan 22 15:22:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: References: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c97cd7$87bad0f0$973072d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I am interested in the motivators and how success is measured. Does the commercial partner actually care if the bikes are used? They will make their money from advertising, that will be no different whether the bikes are used. The bikes will take up large swaths of pavement sitting there forlornly, earning their advertising revenue. Is BCC putting any performance measure requirements on the operator? How will we know in a year or two if this has been worth the loss of space and the visual pollution (of the advertising, not the bikes!). I haven't read the articles and apologise if these questions have been answered. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Sebastian Tauchmann Sent: Friday, 23 January 2009 6:54 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane 2009/1/23 mich rolling : > I support the Citibike scheme! There, I have said it; on this I support CanDo. Well, I'd be happier if it was fully ratepayer-owned instead of adding yet more advertising to Brisbane's visual pollution. Bike hire's fine. > There is an interesting divide emerging in the Readers Comments sections > of the Brisbane Times and the Courier Mail. BT readers are generally much > more supportive of the Citibike idea than Courier Mail readers. Mich, I know you like mentioning C-M and BT articles and such, and it'd would be wonderful if you could include the links to the stories mentioned when you do. That'd help everyone to know what you're talking about, rather than having to do extra clicky-clicky to get our browsers to their websites through google. For the stuff you mention here and in no particular order: http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/will_you_make_u.h tml http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/bikeaway_upgrad.h tml http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/improve-bikeways-for-new-hir e-scheme-cycling-group/2009/01/22/1232471495921.html http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/on-your-bikes-brisbane/2009/ 01/22/1232471476891.html http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24949645-952,00.html (okay, some bonus links thrown but, but they are related.) > (Did the Courier pick up the old Daily Telegraph demographic?) The C-M demo is the same demo as the Daily Telegraph in Sydney and the Herald Sun in Melbourne... Cheers, S _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From busrail at fastmail.fm Thu Jan 22 16:25:00 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Thu Jan 22 16:24:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <000801c97cd7$87bad0f0$973072d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <001301c97ce0$4912fef0$0201010a@Betty> Just maybe the "BCC sponsored" use of bicycles around Brisbane will encourage/force development of better cycling facilities. Lets hope it is a success for that reason alone. It did not seem to work that way with the bus bike racks tho. Regards, Norm. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Friday, 23 January 2009 7:22 AM To: 'Sebastian Tauchmann'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane I am interested in the motivators and how success is measured. Does the commercial partner actually care if the bikes are used? They will make their money from advertising, that will be no different whether the bikes are used. The bikes will take up large swaths of pavement sitting there forlornly, earning their advertising revenue. Is BCC putting any performance measure requirements on the operator? How will we know in a year or two if this has been worth the loss of space and the visual pollution (of the advertising, not the bikes!). I haven't read the articles and apologise if these questions have been answered. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Sebastian Tauchmann Sent: Friday, 23 January 2009 6:54 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane 2009/1/23 mich rolling : > I support the Citibike scheme! There, I have said it; on this I > support CanDo. Well, I'd be happier if it was fully ratepayer-owned instead of adding yet more advertising to Brisbane's visual pollution. Bike hire's fine. > There is an interesting divide emerging in the Readers Comments > sections of the Brisbane Times and the Courier Mail. BT readers are > generally much more supportive of the Citibike idea than Courier Mail > readers. Mich, I know you like mentioning C-M and BT articles and such, and it'd would be wonderful if you could include the links to the stories mentioned when you do. That'd help everyone to know what you're talking about, rather than having to do extra clicky-clicky to get our browsers to their websites through google. For the stuff you mention here and in no particular order: http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/will_you_make _u.h tml http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/bikeaway_upgr ad.h tml http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/improve-bikeways-for-new -hir e-scheme-cycling-group/2009/01/22/1232471495921.html http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/on-your-bikes-brisbane/2 009/ 01/22/1232471476891.html http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24949645-952,00.html (okay, some bonus links thrown but, but they are related.) > (Did the Courier pick up the old Daily Telegraph demographic?) The C-M demo is the same demo as the Daily Telegraph in Sydney and the Herald Sun in Melbourne... Cheers, S _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Jan 22 19:47:18 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Jan 22 19:51:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <000801c97cd7$87bad0f0$973072d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <690248.19603.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000801c97cd7$87bad0f0$973072d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <497921A6.4070604@teegee.com.au> Yes, good questions, Pete. I noticed that the picture showing the proposed bike station in green square in the city in front of the BAC shows a long row of loosely spaced bikes on a rack. While the 'regular' bike parking racks are located down in no-mans land these commercial bikes are given prime exposure in the forecourt. Regular cyclists visiting that building have to make do with a tree or sculpture if they want to park their bike where it can be seen. And while the innovators are coming up with different solutions to pack as many bikes as possible into a small footprint for convenient bike parking, this scheme relies on just the opposite to gain as much exposure as possible for the ads and the scheme itself. Where are these racks going to be located? We have sold out most of the footpaths for bus shelter ads, shop ads and dining, what is left? It would also seem that the Bicentennial bikeway is going to be one of the main routes supported between the city and UQ, does it really make sense to put more demand on this shared route before it is upgraded? Are these bikes pedestrian friendly? I think that needs to be considered as they may get used by the less experienced bike riders on these busy shared paths. k Peter Whittle wrote: > I am interested in the motivators and how success is measured. Does the > commercial partner actually care if the bikes are used? They will make their > money from advertising, that will be no different whether the bikes are > used. The bikes will take up large swaths of pavement sitting there > forlornly, earning their advertising revenue. Is BCC putting any performance > measure requirements on the operator? How will we know in a year or two if > this has been worth the loss of space and the visual pollution (of the > advertising, not the bikes!). I haven't read the articles and apologise if > these questions have been answered. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Sebastian Tauchmann > Sent: Friday, 23 January 2009 6:54 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > > 2009/1/23 mich rolling : > >> I support the Citibike scheme! There, I have said it; on this I support >> > CanDo. > > Well, I'd be happier if it was fully ratepayer-owned instead of adding > yet more advertising to Brisbane's visual pollution. Bike hire's fine. > > >> There is an interesting divide emerging in the Readers Comments sections >> of the Brisbane Times and the Courier Mail. BT readers are generally much >> more supportive of the Citibike idea than Courier Mail readers. >> > > Mich, I know you like mentioning C-M and BT articles and such, and > it'd would be wonderful if you could include the links to the stories > mentioned when you do. That'd help everyone to know what you're > talking about, rather than having to do extra clicky-clicky to get our > browsers to their websites through google. > > For the stuff you mention here and in no particular order: > http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/will_you_make_u.h > tml > http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/01/bikeaway_upgrad.h > tml > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/improve-bikeways-for-new-hir > e-scheme-cycling-group/2009/01/22/1232471495921.html > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/on-your-bikes-brisbane/2009/ > 01/22/1232471476891.html > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24949645-952,00.html > > (okay, some bonus links thrown but, but they are related.) > > >> (Did the Courier pick up the old Daily Telegraph demographic?) >> > > The C-M demo is the same demo as the Daily Telegraph in Sydney and the > Herald Sun in Melbourne... > > > Cheers, > > S > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Jan 22 20:03:47 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Jan 22 20:02:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [Cmass-Sydney] SMH piece today Message-ID: <20090123020201.KRXX6144.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks to CMass Sydney for this gem ...! Notice the little bit of gadgetry that provides info re the variable tolls? Perhaps variable tolls should apply on the Gateway and other tolled or shadow-tolled facilities already built by BCC and the state government and those being built by Cant-do ? Perhaps they will? MY........................... >Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:57:38 +1100 >Subject: [Cmass-Sydney] SMH piece today > >Here's one by Elizabeth Farrelly for all those "scowling, >mirror-eyed lycra" types. It's quite good. > >http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/posture-a-sore-point-for-pained-pedalpushers/2009/01/21/1232471392456.html From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Jan 22 21:09:05 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Jan 22 21:11:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. There are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out there? Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not clear but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down the opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead and carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of the bikes. Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation that BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That doesn't seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in Australia leaning that way any time soon. Ian From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Jan 22 21:17:51 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Jan 22 21:18:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Traffic changes Kalinga Park and Bowen Hills Message-ID: >From Brisconnections, it only gets worse! http://www.bq.org.au/_downloads/airportlink_kalinga.pdf http://www.bq.org.au/_downloads/airportlink_bowenhills.pdf R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090123/136803b0/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Jan 22 21:30:01 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Jan 22 21:30:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <618846.79615.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ian, With respect to the Courier Mail article, do you agree with Ben Wilson? I don't think the cost is at all reasonable. I wondered how many bicycle hire left their business under the assumption that this was going to be free? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 23 January, 2009 1:09:05 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. There are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out there? Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not clear but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down the opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead and carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of the bikes. Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation that BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That doesn't seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in Australia leaning that way any time soon. Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090122/a75d177d/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Jan 22 23:29:58 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Jan 22 23:33:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <618846.79615.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> <618846.79615.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090123133841.K15294@singha.lister.id.au> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > With respect to the Courier Mail article, do you agree with Ben Wilson? Specifically, this bit? [ From http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24949645-952,00.html ] > Bicycle Queensland manager Ben Wilson said the bike hire scheme was for > short-term not all-day use. "And for that, it's very reasonably priced," > he said. Yes, I do generally agree with that. The bike hire scheme is undoubtedly targeted at short-term not all-day use, and half an hour for "free" is undoubtedly cheap. I think the issue of whether the bike hire scheme _should_ be targetting all-day use instead of or as well as short-term use is separate. I certainly see that having higher turnover makes the system more efficient (i.e. cost-effective, or profitable, I suppose), and I have sympathy for, and probably tend to support the point of view that, all things considered, this is a good trade-off to make. I was a little surprised by the cost of the "free" scheme. The annual charge ($55) is comparable to the Parisian equivalent (E29) but the daily charge ($10) is significantly higher than the Parisian equivalent (E1). The "charge" (penalty, really) for overnight use ($150) is quite steep, but also comparable to the Parisian equivalent (~E100). Given the Translink Go Card experience, I imagine there might be more than a few people getting hit with these penalties (rightly or wrongly) and making a fuss about it. One reservation I have about the pricing is that half an hour might be a bit tight for some common trips under the scheme (e.g. between UQ and the CBD). Those bikes look like clunkers, they only have three gears (if they're like the French ones), and not everybody is as fit or keen to get sweaty as some of us on this list. On the other hand it's still only $2, which is cheaper than the bus (for an adult). So yes, I think that for semi-frequent short term use (as intended) the scheme is reasonably priced. [ Anthony continues: ] > I don't think the cost is at all reasonable. I wondered how many bicycle > hire left their business under the assumption that this was going to be > free? I would imagine very few, if any. I think the focus of the new scheme on short-term use has been clear since the outset. The general fee structure (and magnitude of the fees) is similar to the schemes overseas, as I believe BCC/Newman always said it would be. Certainly anybody running a potentially competing bike hire business and considering closing it as a result would have looked at the proposal closely enough to see that. They might have still decided to close their business, but if it was as a result of misunderstanding the new scheme I don't think they have anybody to blame but themselves. Cheers, Ian From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Jan 22 23:39:02 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Jan 22 23:39:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Truck blind spot crashes Message-ID: This report is in Dutch but has an English summary: R-2008-11A The circumstances of blind spot crashes and short- and long-term measures; A crash analysis over the years 1997-2007, traffic observations, and surveys among cyclists and lorry drivers (In Dutch). C.C. Schoon, M.J.A. Doumen & D. de Bruin. SWOV, Leidschendam. http://www.swov.nl/rapport/R-2008-11A.pdf BTW I've noticed a few trucks with warning signs on the left side directed at cyclists. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090123/0a88df3f/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Jan 22 23:41:03 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Jan 22 23:39:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <618846.79615.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> <618846.79615.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090123053922.TPRT5528.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Anthony and all ... Like much of the discussion about cycling in Australia, the BCC project has shown up how little we learn from elsewhere or just how little we know. The Paris example (and most others) is designed to provide a free bike for a single short trip such that the total trip time (and cost) is less than for other available modes while convenience is better. Thus the Citibike is free for a short period ie 30 minutes to encourage those types of trips eg not by car or taxi, or even by public transport, that are a bit long or slow for walking. The other benefit of encouraging short use is the fast turn-over that tends to make availability better for a given number of bikes assuming that any peak tidal imbalance is dealt with by the operator (again as eg in Paris). It would seem that rather than compete with existing bike hire operators, the converse is probably true in that as far as I am aware, most existing bike hire operators tend to charge quite a lot more to hire a bike than most people would want to pay for 30 minutes or at most an hour. That too is why the "racks" are within a fairly tight geographical range ... although understood to be somewhat larger than was originally intended by BCC. And there is also a benefit in not having to worry about where to park your bike, whether hired or your own. As for the "costs" like even more advertising, its worth looking at the web for other places where the some issues have been raised. Most can be addressed eg by removing a car bay to install bike racks ...! It seems the real problem is the potential (or reality) that being so high profile with the media and general public, it will be seen or promoted as a major "green" initiative perhaps to the detriment of what else could have been done like providing more bike racks around the CBD for those who do cycle in, or around, and out ... to and through ...! Have a look at < Velib > or numerous other articles on the web to get a feel for what has been used to model this project ... then HOPE it doesn't go the way of much other to do with cycling here ... ending up substandard ... or like the bike racks on buses, said to be a failure and removed. The lack of info I initially referred to includes a contract which apparently has no delivery date ... so raising questions about what else is negotiable behind the scenes and way out of our reach ... and will then be presented with lots of political PR "fluff" some time in 2010 ...! The biggest problem seems to be the current lack of people (other than couriers) visibly cycling in the CBD and rather than emphasising and promoting that cyclists are expected and encouraged on the roads in Brisbane, the Lord Mayor and Cr Prentice continually refers to $100m bikeways and bikepaths .... which of course are unlikely to turn up in the CBD on the desire lines where needed. By contrast they could have used the example of Adelaide Street with its generally well located "yellow BIKEs" and explained that Main Roads and/or QT required the 50km/h speed limit although BCC tried to get away with 40km/h. At least the Lord Mayor pointed out that impatient fast through traffic does not belong in the CBD (mentioned by the Lord Mayor in the ABC 612 announcement interview I heard). As it might prove invaluable, I wonder if someone can find the transcript or the tape of the interview? MY........................ At 01:30 PM 23/01/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Hi Ian, > >With respect to the Courier Mail article, do you agree with Ben >Wilson? I don't think the cost >is at all reasonable. I wondered how many bicycle hire left their >business under the assumption >that this was going to be free? > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Ian Lister >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Friday, 23 January, 2009 1:09:05 PM >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > >Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. >There are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the >BCC web site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information >available out there? > >Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme >will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not >clear but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other >than that, it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will >cut down the opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to >plan ahead and carry a helmet around with them if they're intending >to use one of the bikes. > >Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a >higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation >that BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That >doesn't seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some >pressure will build. It'll need the federal government to be on >board too though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of >government in Australia leaning that way any time soon. > >Ian > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. >Take >a look. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1910 - Release Date: >22/01/2009 6:28 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090123/e8ccbda2/attachment-0001.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Jan 22 16:15:42 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Fri Jan 23 02:20:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow no helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed limit (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or other recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear helmets. I notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles for short haul commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets either on the road or when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. Police seem to turn a blind eye to this and I have watched as several cyclists rode past a well resourced RBT without helmets and did barely attract a glance from the NSW police. I think that if the helmet law was rigidly enforced that there would be far less cycle usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place for a low speed limit too, although this is not in place, I do see a lot of road being claimed back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an apparently ad-hoc manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is about. I think the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in and thru if it was more like Byron. I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the long walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the then QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St Bris stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes on that route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to match the demand in both directions. I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily adjusted to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared design to keep them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever be for flatlander use. Ian Lister wrote: > Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. There > are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web > site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out > there? > > Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme > will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not clear > but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, > it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down the > opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead and > carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of the > bikes. > > Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a > higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation that > BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That doesn't > seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure > will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too > though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in > Australia leaning that way any time soon. > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Jan 23 20:40:34 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Jan 23 20:39:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane In-Reply-To: <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> References: <20090122033404.DMAL12531.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <20090123125342.R15294@singha.lister.id.au> <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <20090124023850.FDUQ6144.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Kim and all ... This morning I noticed that K-Mart has bike helmets for just $11.99 ... So the nominal or token helmet has arrived ... no doubt complying with the appropriate standards but at a reasonable price ...! Makes the rumoured $20.00 to buy a helmet with hiring the BCC hire bikes a bit expensive ... but at least the cheaper they are, the closer we get to having (i) disposable helmets and (ii) a degree of evidence that compulsory wearing of a helmet is problematic ... in both cases the downside is required increases in very obvious conspicuous consumption ...! Or perhaps like bikes in Amsterdam, you park the helmet expecting it will be taken by someone else ... so you just help yourself to another one ... apparently for free ...! (Although not complying with AS, the trick is to carry a simple cotton or similar washable cap to wear under the helmet then hope there is a helmet of the right size.) It will be interesting to see how the helmet requirement is addressed ... not surprisingly also being kept under wraps ...! As for access to the QUT - Gardens Point area, I recall when people including BQ publicly opposed the campaign to have the "Goodwill Bridge" built such that it better complied with disabled access requirements, many people said it would not be used or spending the extra money to flatten it was a waste. Was it BQ that argued in the city free media, it was unnecessary as parts of Brisbane were steeper etc?? As a spokesperson seeking the flatter bridge we devised two tactics to overcome those who in effect were campaigning (i) AGAINST building the bridge given its apparently high cost with no obvious need/demand and/or (ii) AGAINST making it more user friendly for ALL users given it was not only a benchmark facility but would be in place for a 50-100 year life, if not more. The first was to remind people how they had quite happily walked from one end to the other of the EXPO site, and often walked back, often without even realising how far they had walked eg from the former South Brisbane Town Hall to the Victoria Bridge ... several trams stops for those who recall ...! The second was getting people to open their street directory or a map and have a look at the actual distances involved ... and to park away for ever those vivid lasting memories of trudging up to Queen Street or to Roma Street or Central stations ...! It was surprising how many people could not imagine how close Vulture Street (now South Bank) station was and still is, to QUT ...! It was also surprising and an excellent lesson in campaigning to have evidence esp during "talk back" radio, of how easy it was (and presumably still is) to demonstrate the facts IF the facts as it were, speak for themselves. That said, it is to be hoped that QUT students and others of that ability in fact walk rather than use the hire bikes just to get to Gardens Point from South Bank station given it is such a short walk. From a transport perspective, perhaps rather better that people who are heading for say Petrie Bight or the bottom end of Creek Street use the bikes to get to/from the Gold Coast-Cleveland lines and/or the Southeast Busway catchments?? As others have commented on the various blogs, one problem may just be that too many people will try the bikes in the initial period leading to a system breakdown in having the bikes ready and/or too many more people trying public transport then relying on the bikes adding more people to buses and train services that are already over-crowded ... I wonder what the contract requires in the event of demand exceeding supply ? The same as the Lord Mayor's solution with the buses? Build more roads instead of funding even more buses ... and hire bikes? Or as recently emerged at Indooroopilly station where despite BCC supposedly supporting the idea of integrated public transport, during the $26m upgrade, it emerged BCC won't pay for upgrading its share of public transport infrastructure and expects developers to pay ... http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/developer-should-pay-for-smelly-tunnel-council/2009/01/21/1232471395490.html BTW for those not aware, the BCC has the subway under Coonan Street because it removed and will not provide access at grade for pedestrians to get to/from Station Road and the station ... despite useful nearby bus stops on Coonan Street ...! We live in interesting times .... MY......................... At 08:15 AM 23/01/2009, kim wrote: >The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow >no helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed >limit (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or >other recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear >helmets. I notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles >for short haul commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets >either on the road or when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. >Police seem to turn a blind eye to this and I have watched as >several cyclists rode past a well resourced RBT without helmets and >did barely attract a glance from the NSW police. I think that if the >helmet law was rigidly enforced that there would be far less cycle >usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place for a low speed limit too, >although this is not in place, I do see a lot of road being claimed >back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an apparently ad-hoc >manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is about. I think >the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in and thru if >it was more like Byron. >I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who >travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the >long walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the >then QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St >Bris stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes >on that route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to >match the demand in both directions. >I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily >adjusted to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared >design to keep them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever >be for flatlander use. > > > >Ian Lister wrote: >>Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. >>There are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the >>BCC web site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information >>available out there? >> >>Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme >>will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not >>clear but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other >>than that, it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that >>will cut down the opportunities for using the bikes - people will >>need to plan ahead and carry a helmet around with them if they're >>intending to use one of the bikes. >> >>Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a >>higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation >>that BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That >>doesn't seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some >>pressure will build. It'll need the federal government to be on >>board too though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of >>government in Australia leaning that way any time soon. >> >>Ian >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1910 - Release Date: >22/01/2009 6:28 PM From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Fri Jan 23 22:46:47 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Fri Jan 23 22:47:03 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <200901231800.n0NI05sT021950@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200901231800.n0NI05sT021950@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: My two cents. I do not support any moves to relax helmet laws even if it means less people riding. There is way too much evidence to show they are effective at reducing the chance of brain injury in an accident. It only takes a gumby low speed accident to hit your head on a pavement and kill or injure yourself. And my taxes will pay for their stupidity. Any idea of a speed limit on paths I also object to. Part of the benefit of riding is getting somewhere faster than a car. I want free flowing paths not artificially reduced speeds because of poor design or laziness on behalf of the government. I would prefer to see seperation or provide on and off road facilities than reduce speeds. I know how to ride safely in heavy pedestrian and cyclist traffic putting a speed limit in will not help. I read a quote from a person from a queensland cycling peak body that said 30kmh was too fast on a shared path. Twaddle what is that based on? If i'm riding at 9pm I can't do 30 down corro drive bikeway? If we had decent express ways in for cyclists like cars to that would go part of the way to making cycling more attractive alternative to being a cager. Anyway that's my two cents for now. Aaron > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: free Citibikes in Brisbane (kim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:15:42 +1000 > From: kim > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > To: BikeQld > Message-ID: <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow no > helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed limit > (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or other > recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear helmets. I > notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles for short haul > commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets either on the road or > when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. Police seem to turn a blind > eye to this and I have watched as several cyclists rode past a well > resourced RBT without helmets and did barely attract a glance from the > NSW police. I think that if the helmet law was rigidly enforced that > there would be far less cycle usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place > for a low speed limit too, although this is not in place, I do see a lot > of road being claimed back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an > apparently ad-hoc manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is > about. I think the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in > and thru if it was more like Byron. > I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who > travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the long > walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the then > QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St Bris > stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes on that > route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to match the > demand in both directions. > I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily adjusted > to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared design to keep > them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever be for flatlander use. > > > > Ian Lister wrote: > > Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. There > > are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web > > site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out > > there? > > > > Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme > > will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not clear > > but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, > > it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down the > > opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead and > > carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of the > > bikes. > > > > Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a > > higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation that > > BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That doesn't > > seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure > > will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too > > though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in > > Australia leaning that way any time soon. > > > > Ian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Want to marry your mail? Combine your email accounts here! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090124/b2a04ee8/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sat Jan 24 01:54:39 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sat Jan 24 01:54:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: <200901231800.n0NI05sT021950@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <000601c97df9$04cad460$0e607d20$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Aaron, just wondering if you are familiar with the gamut of anti-helmet arguments? You said "way too much evidence". I'm not going to ask you to cite it, but I could. Many people will argue until they are blue in the face that you are wrong on the simplistic argument of whether helmets improve bike safety, and on the more complex one of whether helmet laws are warranted in view of all considerations such as transport safety, community health etc.. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Aaron Wray Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2009 2:47 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 My two cents. I do not support any moves to relax helmet laws even if it means less people riding. There is way too much evidence to show they are effective at reducing the chance of brain injury in an accident. It only takes a gumby low speed accident to hit your head on a pavement and kill or injure yourself. And my taxes will pay for their stupidity. Any idea of a speed limit on paths I also object to. Part of the benefit of riding is getting somewhere faster than a car. I want free flowing paths not artificially reduced speeds because of poor design or laziness on behalf of the government. I would prefer to see seperation or provide on and off road facilities than reduce speeds. I know how to ride safely in heavy pedestrian and cyclist traffic putting a speed limit in will not help. I read a quote from a person from a queensland cycling peak body that said 30kmh was too fast on a shared path. Twaddle what is that based on? If i'm riding at 9pm I can't do 30 down corro drive bikeway? If we had decent express ways in for cyclists like cars to that would go part of the way to making cycling more attractive alternative to being a cager. Anyway that's my two cents for now. Aaron > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: free Citibikes in Brisbane (kim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:15:42 +1000 > From: kim > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > To: BikeQld > Message-ID: <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow no > helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed limit > (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or other > recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear helmets. I > notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles for short haul > commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets either on the road or > when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. Police seem to turn a blind > eye to this and I have watched as several cyclists rode past a well > resourced RBT without helmets and did barely attract a glance from the > NSW police. I think that if the helmet law was rigidly enforced that > there would be far less cycle usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place > for a low speed limit too, although this is not in place, I do see a lot > of road being claimed back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an > apparently ad-hoc manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is > about. I think the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in > and thru if it was more like Byron. > I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who > travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the long > walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the then > QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St Bris > stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes on that > route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to match the > demand in both directions. > I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily adjusted > to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared design to keep > them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever be for flatlander use. > > > > Ian Lister wrote: > > Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. There > > are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web > > site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out > > there? > > > > Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme > > will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not clear > > but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, > > it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down the > > opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead and > > carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of the > > bikes. > > > > Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a > > higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation that > > BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That doesn't > > seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure > > will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too > > though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in > > Australia leaning that way any time soon. > > > > Ian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 > *************************************** _____ Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090124/797580e4/attachment-0001.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sat Jan 24 03:08:40 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sat Jan 24 03:08:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 Message-ID: <291301.40937.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I second both Aaron Wray's comments. On helmets, I sometimes ride with an ICU nurse from the head injury section.. She is adament that they rarely see head injuries in cyclists who were wearing helments, the head injuries they do see are in non-helment wearing riders. And she goes on to bemoan the number of young men and boys whose life options are massively reduced by the ongoing effects of the injury. Agree exactly with Aaron's comments on bike path speed limits. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From kim at teegee.com.au Sat Jan 24 10:11:31 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Sat Jan 24 20:15:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: <200901231800.n0NI05sT021950@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <497B3DB3.1050201@teegee.com.au> Aaron, I think you have taken my 'mention' of a speed 'warning' a little out of context. What I had mentioned was a conditional application of a speed limit/warning which would apply if the rider was not wearing a helmet on a shared path. That would not affect your need to travel on these shared paths at a speed of more than 30 kph, which you have determined is safe because you would be wearing your helmet. This kind of conditional rule is used in other classes of vehicles. Motorised mobility vehicles - limited to 10kph on these paths, no helmet needed. Mopeds, limited to 80kph - no bike license needed. Delivery vehicles, less than 20 kph and starting and stopping frequently - no seatbelt required. Mowers and tractors designed for off road use allowed to use roadways for short distances with limited speed. No seat belts required in route buses. Bus passengers allowed to stand unrestrained on route buses provided it is less than 20km distance and under 100kph. Now all of those situations are not the case because they are risk free, any study could show there was _some_ risk involved. Life is full of risks, we don't mitigate them all or we would not get out of bed each day. I am not going to dispute that there is some identified risk in travelling, even at very low speed on a bicycle with or without a helmet. I am sure we have identified a non-zero risk because somebody has made the effort, but I think we could find the same risks if someone for example bothered to study the risks of tripping on an escalator without wearing a helmet vs the same wearing a helmet; and if someone made those findings, would we mandate the wearing of helmets on escalators? I think you will also find that there is 'plenty' of evidence to show that unrestrained heads in motor vehicles are a very common cause of neck injury and yet we don't mandate all the protection that a race car driver would use, such as cervical support collars. You may however be suggesting that head injury of un-helmeted riders travelling below a certain speed is over-represented and thus helmet use even at these speeds is indicated. Is that the case? I would be surprised tho that this would be the case while we don't mandate helmet use for similarly slow wheeled recreational toys such as skates, skateboards and scooters which I would have thought were more risk prone. While you argue that your helmet mitigates your head injury risk as you travel at over 30kph on these shared paths, does it also mitigate the risk to other path users? I would imagine that there is some body of evidence which shows that the severity of injury after a cyclist pedestrian interaction on one of these paths is somewhat proportional to the cyclists speed. If that was the case would you be then applying your same logic and travelling at the least risk speed or would you be discretionary in how much risk you took or exposed other users to? I think for some car owners, part of the benefit of owning a V8 is being able to go faster than someone else too, and many would also argue that it is safe to do 200 down the M1 at 9:30 at night, but we don't like to encourage that thinking. I do favour your sentiment on the expressways for bikes notion but that is unlikely to be in the form of a shared path. The western freeway bikeway was once a kind of expressway to Toowong but it is slowly losing that status to that of a shared path status. Coronation Drive once featured dedicated lanes that were also available for cyclists to travel at up to 60kph if they could but that got Canned. The ICB once afforded a great cross city express bikeway in the form of the emergency stopping lane but that also got Canned. Altho it is nice to dream about new bikeways, most of the issues we are talking about apply to our existing bikeways 'network' of which we can do very little to change. Perhaps if these bikes could be classed as recreational toys then the helmet issue would not be an issue. It's kind of strange how the only difference between a scooter and a bicycle (ridden slowly) is how directly your leg power is applied to the ground and yet the helmet requirement is different. kim Aaron Wray wrote: > My two cents. I do not support any moves to relax helmet laws even if > it means less people riding. There is way too much evidence to show > they are effective at reducing the chance of brain injury in an > accident. It only takes a gumby low speed accident to hit your head on > a pavement and kill or injure yourself. And my taxes will pay for > their stupidity. > > Any idea of a speed limit on paths I also object to. Part of the > benefit of riding is getting somewhere faster than a car. I want free > flowing paths not artificially reduced speeds because of poor design > or laziness on behalf of the government. I would prefer to see > seperation or provide on and off road facilities than reduce speeds. I > know how to ride safely in heavy pedestrian and cyclist traffic > putting a speed limit in will not help. I read a quote from a person > from a queensland cycling peak body that said 30kmh was too fast on a > shared path. Twaddle what is that based on? If i'm riding at 9pm I > can't do 30 down corro drive bikeway? If we had decent express ways in > for cyclists like cars to that would go part of the way to making > cycling more attractive alternative to being a cager. > > Anyway that's my two cents for now. > Aaron > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: free Citibikes in Brisbane (kim) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:15:42 +1000 > > From: kim > > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane > > To: BikeQld > > Message-ID: <4978F00E.9090505@teegee.com.au> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > The helmet issue will be interesting. Perhaps an amendment to allow no > > helmet on shared paths and footpaths with a commensurate speed limit > > (warning at least). We have no requirement for pedestrians or other > > recreational vehicles which typically use these paths to wear > helmets. I > > notice that in Byron Bay there is a high use of bicycles for short haul > > commutes and 99% of the riders do not wear helmets either on the > road or > > when they ride (illegally) on the footpaths. Police seem to turn a > blind > > eye to this and I have watched as several cyclists rode past a well > > resourced RBT without helmets and did barely attract a glance from the > > NSW police. I think that if the helmet law was rigidly enforced that > > there would be far less cycle usage in Byron. Byron is the ideal place > > for a low speed limit too, although this is not in place, I do see a > lot > > of road being claimed back by pedestrians, skaters and boarders in an > > apparently ad-hoc manner that seems to be a metaphor for what Byron is > > about. I think the Brisbane CBD would be much more pleasant to ride in > > and thru if it was more like Byron. > > I can see these hire bikes as being a great way for QUT students who > > travel in by train to get down to the campus. I can remember the long > > walk every day for 4 years as a kid from St Bris station to the then > > QIT. You still see a big precession going to/from Central or St Bris > > stations. I guess it could account for a large number of bikes on that > > route alone and I wonder if the numbers will be adjusted to match the > > demand in both directions. > > I think the clunker design is fine. Hopefully they are easily adjusted > > to suit the rider. Should have just gone for an ungeared design to keep > > them simple and cheap as they will probably only ever be for > flatlander use. > > > > > > > > Ian Lister wrote: > > > Thanks to Richard and Seb for posting the links to the articles. > There > > > are still a lot of details missing though, and nothing on the BCC web > > > site yet. Is there any more comprehensive information available out > > > there? > > > > > > Over the last year one of the big questions has been how the scheme > > > will deal with helmets. From the articles Seb linked to it's not > clear > > > but it sounds like they'll sell you one for $20 and, other than that, > > > it's up to you to bring your own. If so, surely that will cut down > the > > > opportunities for using the bikes - people will need to plan ahead > and > > > carry a helmet around with them if they're intending to use one of > the > > > bikes. > > > > > > Or people might just ignore the law. Perhaps this will result in a > > > higher level of disregard for the law. There had been speculation > that > > > BCC could pressure the state government to amend the law. That > doesn't > > > seem to have happened, but perhaps in the longer run some pressure > > > will build. It'll need the federal government to be on board too > > > though, I think, and, frankly, I can't see any level of government in > > > Australia leaning that way any time soon. > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bikeqld mailing list > > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 > > *************************************** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sat Jan 24 20:47:45 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sat Jan 24 20:47:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <291301.40937.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <291301.40937.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c97e97$4f93fd70$eebbf850$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Mich, it is frustrating that you seconded Aaron's comments, moreover with an anecdote from a party not likely to be objective, after I cautioned that Aaron's assertions are strongly contested. Just do some googling to find out that the helmet issue is far from as simple as your nurse friend would have it. Oh, and cyclists in European countries manage in their legions without helmets, or at least with wearing one by personal choice. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2009 7:09 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 I second both Aaron Wray's comments. On helmets, I sometimes ride with an ICU nurse from the head injury section.. She is adament that they rarely see head injuries in cyclists who were wearing helments, the head injuries they do see are in non-helment wearing riders. And she goes on to bemoan the number of young men and boys whose life options are massively reduced by the ongoing effects of the injury. Agree exactly with Aaron's comments on bike path speed limits. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Sun Jan 25 01:03:10 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Sun Jan 25 01:03:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <200901241800.n0OI07Hr028351@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200901241800.n0OI07Hr028351@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: Pete etal I'm familiar with a lot of the anti-helmet arguments (although for me it's a mute point as we have mandatory helmet laws) and have evidence to back my pro helmet position up (I'd have to drag it out again) that they are effective at reducing the impact of head injuries in incidents. Personally I would almost certainly have serious brain injury by now if it wasn't for wearing a helmet. I am not going to get drawn into a discussion on this issue on the relative health and social benefits vs the relatively few people who may die or get brain injury. I adhere to the laws as they currently stand. If people want to advocate for the reversal of the laws that's their business and right but I will not support it. Cheers Aaron > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 (mich rolling) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:08:40 -0800 (PST) > From: mich rolling > Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15 > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Message-ID: <291301.40937.qm@web44803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I second both Aaron Wray's comments. > > On helmets, I sometimes ride with an ICU nurse from the head injury section.. She is adament that they rarely see head injuries in cyclists who were wearing helments, the head injuries they do see are in non-helment wearing riders. And she goes on to bemoan the number of young men and boys whose life options are massively reduced by the ongoing effects of the injury. > > Agree exactly with Aaron's comments on bike path speed limits. > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun?Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090125/f1c6bdec/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Sun Jan 25 01:53:49 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Sun Jan 25 01:54:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: References: <200901241800.n0OI07Hr028351@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <22DA8233-B275-4562-B5E1-14CBE64FAA1F@bigpond.com> Can't say I've seen much at all in the way of arguments against helmets. There is however a lot of good material out there that argues against forcing adults to wear them. Most of the arguments I've seen in favour of mandatory helmet laws seem to be of the quality of Mich's nurse friend's anecdotes. It's interesting how people regard anything a doctor or nurse says on this subject as the opinion of an expert. These are lay people and most are making pronouncements outside their field of expertise. Mick From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Sun Jan 25 02:53:07 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Sun Jan 25 02:53:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 Message-ID: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Peter, I have read much of the oft-cited literature on helmet wearing. Statistical artifact/sample selection/health benefits to crashers vs health benefits to more people cycling/nanny staters vs conspiracy theorists and on and on and on. Why do motocyclists wear helmets? In my case I have stacked enough times (once at low speed but very close to hitting the noggin on the edge of a concrete curb) to value helmets highly.. Impact would have been to the left temporal region - thin bone. I wear a helmet and strongly encourage others to do so. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox From cameraperson at bigpond.com Sun Jan 25 18:45:46 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Sun Jan 25 18:46:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68E01329-C90A-4342-86F6-B77BBF6098C6@bigpond.com> On 25/01/2009, at 18:53, mich rolling wrote: > Why do motocyclists wear helmets? Probably because it is a lot less inconvenient than it is for cyclists. Motorcycle helmet design is not as hindered by the need for lightness and ventilation. So much so that their efficacy is not adversely affected by those considerations. > I wear a helmet and strongly encourage others to do so. Good for you. I have no problem with that. Mick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090126/13a2c14a/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Sun Jan 25 22:44:44 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Sun Jan 25 22:44:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F3F5BA6D7A8490B98AF06AA6B0B260D@maud> And gloves! I don't go to the corner shop without both. I wouldn't expect my helmet to do that much at 80Kph but it might just save my ears at 10kph sliding on the road. And it certainly has saved me from some nasty wacks on the head from low branches. And gloves mean you can fall, stick your hands out and still type the next day. Safety equipment is an accepted part of any sport now. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: January 25, 2009 6:53 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 Peter, I have read much of the oft-cited literature on helmet wearing. Statistical artifact/sample selection/health benefits to crashers vs health benefits to more people cycling/nanny staters vs conspiracy theorists and on and on and on. Why do motocyclists wear helmets? In my case I have stacked enough times (once at low speed but very close to hitting the noggin on the edge of a concrete curb) to value helmets highly.. Impact would have been to the left temporal region - thin bone. I wear a helmet and strongly encourage others to do so. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun Jan 25 23:51:57 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Jan 25 23:52:20 2009 Subject: Warning: Helmet debate. WAS RE: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004901c97f7a$34eb3fe0$9ec1bfa0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I'm sure I've promised myself never to get into a helmet argument, but what the heck? It's probably a complete waste of time, because our governments will always be too chicken-hearted to consider revoking the laws, given the arguments are not seen as black and white. In the present discussion, what is lacking is an appreciation of risk management. Someone's view, or even some objective data, on the rate of head injuries from head impacts with and without helmets is only a part of the picture. Cycling has to be taken as a much larger and more complex issue. If helmet laws mean X number of people don't ride and therefore are in cars causing other injuries or damage, including personal health issues from lack of fitness, then that has to be taken into account. In every activity, we don't just go on the raw data, but we weigh up the other considerations. I might die if I got hit by a meteorite, but that doesn't keep me indoors, because it's not very likely to happen and there are things I want to do. Freedom of choice is another part of the overall issue. I am an adult and I think I ought to be able to make some decisions about my personal safety. I would judge that, after riding far more than 100,000 km in my life, that if I want to pootle on the back streets to the shops with the wind in my hair, I should not have to run the gauntlet of the police. Perhaps children can be protected by such a law, but why adults? Maybe because of the cost to the community? Crap - people are still allowed to smoke, drink alcohol, drive cars, eat fatty foods, play rugby league and other demonstrably dangerous things, so why single out cyclists? Even with children, the time of introduction of helmet laws saw a plummeting in the rate of kids riding to school - my own teenage sister quit because of the helmet's effect on her hair (excuse my anecdote by way of evidence ;) The question on motorcyclists seems irrelevant to me. Yes, both are two-wheeled means of motility - but that's about where the similarity ends. Oh, and I choose to wear a helmet too - have since long before they were compulsory - even though I have never banged my head in a crash, but I've seen one other person do it and heard about a handful, but I don't think I should have to, I would sometimes choose not to and sometimes I do go without. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: Sunday, 25 January 2009 6:53 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 Peter, I have read much of the oft-cited literature on helmet wearing. Statistical artifact/sample selection/health benefits to crashers vs health benefits to more people cycling/nanny staters vs conspiracy theorists and on and on and on. Why do motocyclists wear helmets? In my case I have stacked enough times (once at low speed but very close to hitting the noggin on the edge of a concrete curb) to value helmets highly.. Impact would have been to the left temporal region - thin bone. I wear a helmet and strongly encourage others to do so. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From akayani at aapt.net.au Mon Jan 26 01:07:17 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Mon Jan 26 01:07:31 2009 Subject: Warning: Helmet debate. WAS RE: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <004901c97f7a$34eb3fe0$9ec1bfa0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <004901c97f7a$34eb3fe0$9ec1bfa0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <95D6B2DCC0DD44E38014CDD28BD64823@maud> "I would sometimes choose not to and sometimes I do go without." I put my gloves on only last week and was wearing a baseball caps; it all felt right and took off out the gate. But I brought a helmet before riding back home. $50 at the bike shop. Normally I don't forget my helmet so I doubt I'd always do that. I just didn't feel like being hassled. So it was easier to buy an extra helmet. I'm not big on nanny laws. But this one really made helmets 'acceptable' to everyone. Enforcing it is likely not that necessary any longer. Low speed accidents I think gloves are more important. Yani From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Tue Jan 27 19:58:14 2009 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Tue Jan 27 19:58:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson References: Message-ID: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> Well half of you might already know this.. There's now a bike path through the tennis centre, which is great. It avoids the nasty rail overpass and zigzag at Fairfield Rd - Palomar st etc. when doing the river ride. It's even pretty wide, about 3m maybe. Not that it was designed by anyone who's ever ridden a bike though! It narrows as it approaches the passenger drop off zone. At this point you'll probably change lanes across to the road so as not to take out any disembarking passengers, once on the road there's no more access ramps back onto the path. No matter, the road is good too, with some extra wiggly bits to slow cars. (whose drivers will need some understanding as to why you're not on the path :) Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/97cb5999/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Jan 27 20:15:10 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Jan 27 20:15:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> Message-ID: <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Ben. Does it take you back out to Yeroong Rd? It will be really nice if one can get on the Coroso without ever having to ride on Yerronga Rd :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Ben Guymer To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wednesday, 28 January, 2009 11:58:14 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson Well half of you might already know this.. There's now a bike path through the tennis centre, which is great. It avoids the nasty rail overpass and zigzag at Fairfield Rd - Palomar st etc. when doing the river ride. It's even pretty wide, about 3m maybe. Not that it was designed by anyone who's ever ridden a bike though! It narrows as it approaches the passenger drop off zone. At this point you'll probably change lanes across to the road so as not to take out any disembarking passengers, once on the road there's no more access ramps back onto the path. No matter, the road is good too, with some extra wiggly bits to slow cars. (whose drivers will need some understanding as to why you're not on the path :) Ben Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090127/5514c431/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Tue Jan 27 20:31:31 2009 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Tue Jan 27 20:31:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> Hi Anthony It allows you to get from cnr King arthur tce / Softstone St (roundabout) across to Ortive St, which has a path through to Stevens + Feez St - so, no need to go on Fairfield Rd (yay!) http://www.whereis.com/index.htm?ref=wpnav#session=MzM= Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson Thanks Ben. Does it take you back out to Yeroong Rd? It will be really nice if one can get on the Coroso without ever having to ride on Yerronga Rd :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ben Guymer To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wednesday, 28 January, 2009 11:58:14 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson Well half of you might already know this.. There's now a bike path through the tennis centre, which is great. It avoids the nasty rail overpass and zigzag at Fairfield Rd - Palomar st etc. when doing the river ride. It's even pretty wide, about 3m maybe. Not that it was designed by anyone who's ever ridden a bike though! It narrows as it approaches the passenger drop off zone. At this point you'll probably change lanes across to the road so as not to take out any disembarking passengers, once on the road there's no more access ramps back onto the path. No matter, the road is good too, with some extra wiggly bits to slow cars. (whose drivers will need some understanding as to why you're not on the path :) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/8cdf5817/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Jan 27 22:42:16 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Jan 27 22:42:25 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster><83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> Message-ID: I cycled down to Redcliffe on Saturday. The old bridge is really starting to fall to bits. I'd guess that 20% of the road space in now 'roped' off. This is a shame as it's been a great bonus for cyclists, walkers and fish eaters. Is there a plan to have a major shared path on the new bridge being constructed? Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/b29d2d05/attachment-0001.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Jan 27 23:08:17 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Jan 27 23:08:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> Message-ID: From http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/web/publicCR.nsf/0/CE789020E651CEA74A257 35D00072788?OpenDocument "The pedestrian and cycle path will be 4.5 metres wide and includes wheelchair access. The path will be almost 5 metres away from the main traffic lanes, and separated T2 lane and a traffic barrier. Users will be able to the recreational fishing and viewing platform viewing platforms (see artist's impressions and fact sheets for more detail)." R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 2:42 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge I cycled down to Redcliffe on Saturday. The old bridge is really starting to fall to bits. I'd guess that 20% of the road space in now 'roped' off. This is a shame as it's been a great bonus for cyclists, walkers and fish eaters. Is there a plan to have a major shared path on the new bridge being constructed? Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/92f52c4e/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Tue Jan 27 23:26:47 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Jan 27 23:27:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson In-Reply-To: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE03857D0771@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> I've been using the road and had some close encounters of the bogan car-driving kind - some of our finest citizens have discovered rat-running through there. Also, the steep shelf at Paragon St remains. Pete ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ben Guymer Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 11:58 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Traffic changes -Tennyson Well half of you might already know this.. There's now a bike path through the tennis centre, which is great. It avoids the nasty rail overpass and zigzag at Fairfield Rd - Palomar st etc. when doing the river ride. It's even pretty wide, about 3m maybe. Not that it was designed by anyone who's ever ridden a bike though! It narrows as it approaches the passenger drop off zone. At this point you'll probably change lanes across to the road so as not to take out any disembarking passengers, once on the road there's no more access ramps back onto the path. No matter, the road is good too, with some extra wiggly bits to slow cars. (whose drivers will need some understanding as to why you're not on the path :) Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/51a8cb5e/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Tue Jan 27 23:44:20 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Tue Jan 27 23:44:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] LNP policy on-the-run Message-ID: How clever is this? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/28/2476406.htm "If we're privileged to win government at the next state election, we'll put forward $40 million over four years to enhance school set- down safety right throughout Queensland," he (the Borg) said. Great stuff, Lawrence. Let's provide even more incentive for kids to be chauffered to school. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/af5612c0/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Jan 28 00:31:48 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Jan 28 00:32:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> Message-ID: <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> That looks like a great plan! Yani _____ From: Richard Hockey [mailto:r.hockey@sph.uq.edu.au] Sent: January 28, 2009 3:08 PM To: akayani@aapt.net.au; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge From http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/web/publicCR.nsf/0/CE789020E651CEA74A25735D0 0072788?OpenDocument "The pedestrian and cycle path will be 4.5 metres wide and includes wheelchair access. The path will be almost 5 metres away from the main traffic lanes, and separated T2 lane and a traffic barrier. Users will be able to the recreational fishing and viewing platform viewing platforms (see artist's impressions and fact sheets for more detail)." R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 2:42 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge I cycled down to Redcliffe on Saturday. The old bridge is really starting to fall to bits. I'd guess that 20% of the road space in now 'roped' off. This is a shame as it's been a great bonus for cyclists, walkers and fish eaters. Is there a plan to have a major shared path on the new bridge being constructed? Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/7dde9274/attachment-0001.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Jan 28 01:11:07 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Jan 28 01:12:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> Message-ID: Cyclists will also be able to ride in the T2 lane on the bridge. R From: Yani [mailto:akayani@aapt.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 4:32 PM To: Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge That looks like a great plan! Yani ________________________________ From: Richard Hockey [mailto:r.hockey@sph.uq.edu.au] Sent: January 28, 2009 3:08 PM To: akayani@aapt.net.au; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge From http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/web/publicCR.nsf/0/CE789020E651CEA74A257 35D00072788?OpenDocument "The pedestrian and cycle path will be 4.5 metres wide and includes wheelchair access. The path will be almost 5 metres away from the main traffic lanes, and separated T2 lane and a traffic barrier. Users will be able to the recreational fishing and viewing platform viewing platforms (see artist's impressions and fact sheets for more detail)." R From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 2:42 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge I cycled down to Redcliffe on Saturday. The old bridge is really starting to fall to bits. I'd guess that 20% of the road space in now 'roped' off. This is a shame as it's been a great bonus for cyclists, walkers and fish eaters. Is there a plan to have a major shared path on the new bridge being constructed? Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/996a83cd/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Jan 28 01:13:09 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Jan 28 01:13:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> Message-ID: <20090128071306.KCQB21910.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Maybe Yani ... maybe ...! But some caution needed ... these are rather fuzzy images (see Factsheet #5) and the descriptions appear somewhat open to interpretation ...! Interesting too that this part of the Moreton Bay Cycleway is to have a "shared footpath" design that BQ, MRD and QT opposed at the recent Gateway Northern access "bikeway" meetings ... preferring instead to have an almost unusable narrow "token" pedestrians ONLY space and a reduced width for cyclists ONLY .... BUT without separation of the peds and cyclists (to allow both to "illegally" use the remaining space? In other words, the Gateway section is apparently (but for no obvious reasons) NOT a full width "shared path" ... presumably based on that being the agreed (?) design for the Gateway Bridge. The trick with these types of decisions is to see if the design engineers can show the line markings where the changes occur ... and not surprisingly they won't because in practice they can't. Same as happens on the road where Coro Drive joins North Quay inbound and on the nearby "bikeway" as it changes from share to separated then back to shared ...! Maybe we need a "goodwill" design to be more widely used ... it works well enough on the bridge of that name and at the places where the engineers can't mark the lane changes, so why not rely on it generally as sharing ie "share the road" AND "share the path" ...??? MY....................... At 04:31 PM 28/01/2009, Yani wrote: >That looks like a great plan! > >Yani > > >From: Richard Hockey [mailto:r.hockey@sph.uq.edu.au] >Sent: January 28, 2009 3:08 PM >To: akayani@aapt.net.au; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge > > From > http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/web/publicCR.nsf/0/CE789020E651CEA74A25735D00072788?OpenDocument >"The pedestrian and cycle path will be 4.5 metres wide and includes >wheelchair access. The path will be almost 5 metres away from the >main traffic lanes, and separated T2 lane and a traffic barrier. >Users will be able to the recreational fishing and viewing platform >viewing platforms (see artist's impressions and fact sheets for more detail)." > >R > >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani >Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2009 2:42 PM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge > >I cycled down to Redcliffe on Saturday. > >The old bridge is really starting to fall to bits. I'd guess that >20% of the road space in now 'roped' off. This is a shame as it's >been a great bonus for cyclists, walkers and fish eaters. > >Is there a plan to have a major shared path on the new bridge being >constructed? > >Yani >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.14/1920 - Release Date: >27/01/2009 6:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/f879d654/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Jan 28 04:06:10 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Jan 28 04:06:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Redcliffe Bridge In-Reply-To: References: <1D1A5FD76AF84DAB91C701FDA159F724@Toaster> <83164.52814.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <955740FBE65A4AD3A041A72CBFEE46F0@Toaster> <5E27C7420CBC4A3DB22150F475471F40@maud> Message-ID: <4569873DA75C48E69480147B48D3F56B@maud> Cyclists will also be able to ride in the T2 lane on the bridge. R You would want the breeze on your side to do that. ;) Yani -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/e29aca19/attachment-0001.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Jan 28 04:14:38 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Jan 28 04:15:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] LNP policy on-the-run In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If there is that much spare cash about I'm sure they would prefer air conditioned school rooms. You could buy a lot of school buses for that too. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Mick Fanning Sent: January 28, 2009 3:44 PM To: bikeqld Subject: [bikeqld] LNP policy on-the-run How clever is this? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/28/2476406.htm "If we're privileged to win government at the next state election, we'll put forward $40 million over four years to enhance school set-down safety right throughout Queensland," he (the Borg) said. Great stuff, Lawrence. Let's provide even more incentive for kids to be chauffered to school. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090128/184be050/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Jan 28 23:12:41 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Jan 28 23:13:03 2009 Subject: Warning: Helmet debate. WAS RE: [bikeqld] bikeqld Digest, Vol 41, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <004901c97f7a$34eb3fe0$9ec1bfa0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <360972.38302.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <004901c97f7a$34eb3fe0$9ec1bfa0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038588D6E9@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Quote There are many things you can point to as proof that the human is not smart. But my personal favorite would have to be that we needed to invent the helmet. What was happening, apparently, was that we were involved in a lot of activities that were cracking our heads. We chose not to avoid doing those activities but, instead, to come up with some sort of device to help us enjoy our head-cracking lifestyles. And even that didn't work because not enough people were wearing them so we had to come up with the helmet law. Which is even stupider, the idea behind the helmet law being to preserve a brain whose judgment is so poor, it does not even try to avoid the cracking of the head it's in. -Jerry Seinfeld From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Jan 29 03:28:21 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Thu Jan 29 03:28:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] free Citibikes in Brisbane Message-ID: <022C4CEB-A7EA-4039-B19D-FE004F975F7F@bigpond.com> I had a chance to get up close and personal with one of the new Citibikes today. I thought is was a pretty good bike. Well thought- out and put together for the intended purpose. The hubs are Shimano Nexus. The front is a hub-dynamo and seems also to incorporate the brake. The rear is a 3-speed epicyclic gear with brake. No cabling visible anywhere. The wheels look very sturdy with beefy alloy rims and heavy gauge spokes. I thought they had more spokes than usual also. On the front is a wire basket and at the front of that is where they've mounted the headlight (it appears to be either a Busch & Muller "Lumotec Round" or the AXA equivalent). The basket actually incorporates a little cage which protects the light from damage - very clever. There are two tail lights. One is behind the seat post and the other is built into the rear mudguard. The one behind the seatpost is a B & M Seculite which is mounted in a proprietary, brazed-on protective capsule and the one on the mudguard looks like the old-model B & M mudguard light but is like nothing I've ever seen before. Both are LED but not sure if the mudguard one has a standlight facility, as the Seculite does. As with the brakes and gears, there is no cabling visible anywhere. The seat is very padded and comfy looking and the post is quick- release adjustable. I didn't see a switch for the lights but perhaps it was somewhere I didn't notice. It's also possible they've elected to leave the lights on all the time. The Nexus hub dynamo is reputed to be fairly drag-free. Overall, I thought this bike was about as foolproof and bombproof as you could possibly make a bike. Nor will you need to wear silly clothes (apart from the helmet) to ride them. The only weak point might be the mudguards. But that is always the case no matter how much money you spend. They are also the easiest part to replace so it's no big deal. The rear mudguard is also where they will put the advertising. So they will probably have heaps of spares anyway. The city council people were mightily p-ssed off about the job the Courier Mail did on them about the Citibikes - and who could blame them. Really, if you look closely at the way this scheme will be set up, it's unlikely most users will ever pay a cent to use these bikes - even if they use them several times a day. We still don't know precisely where the "stations" for these bikes will be. I reckon that will be the decider. Mick From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Jan 29 06:02:32 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Jan 29 06:02:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] HSL bikeway closure this weekend Message-ID: <345245.53987.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I haven't heard much on this list but there have people on HSL diversion on Coro Drive handing out leaflets. Apparently, from this Friday night till Monday morning that part of the Coro-Driver pretend bikeway will be narrowed to only 1m. They are buding a 7.5% gradient ramp that will be part of the bikeway until the end of 2009. According to the leaflet the ramp will be at least 3 Metres wide. I think this sounds a lot better then that lovely sewerage diversion we had a couple of years ago. Oh well just be careful this weekend. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090129/25d2c302/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Jan 29 06:35:06 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Jan 29 06:36:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] HSL bikeway closure this weekend In-Reply-To: <345245.53987.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <345245.53987.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4981A27A.3070701@teegee.com.au> I noticed too, that they made a point of saying that traffic controllers will be asking cyclists to dismount at that point for the 3 days that they will have the one metre wide section operating. I wonder how they will handle this one or whether they learned some lessons from the sewer pipe diversion fiasco. I guess we should be thankful that this one metre business is only short term this time around. I think the whole HSL bypass work has been pretty shonky to date. I had some whinges in the early days of it but lost the enthusiasm after having to deal with them a few times. The West End side is not a lot better, just lucky it is not so heavily trafficked. kim Anthony Lee wrote: > I haven't heard much on this list but there have people on HSL > diversion on Coro Drive handing out leaflets. > Apparently, from this Friday night till Monday morning that part of > the Coro-Driver pretend bikeway will be > narrowed to only 1m. They are buding a 7.5% gradient ramp that will be > part of the bikeway until the end of > 2009. According to the leaflet the ramp will be at least 3 Metres > wide. I think this sounds a lot better > then that lovely sewerage diversion we had a couple of years ago. Oh > well just be careful this weekend. > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. > Take a look > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Jan 29 21:12:43 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Jan 29 21:12:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] instructables In-Reply-To: <022C4CEB-A7EA-4039-B19D-FE004F975F7F@bigpond.com> References: <022C4CEB-A7EA-4039-B19D-FE004F975F7F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <41B8E1B0BCA24501B3B6466031D3402A@maud> http://www.instructables.com/id/All_Weather_Bike_Helmet/ Always some fun ideas on this site... yet perhaps a little crazy, mad inventor style. Yani From kim at teegee.com.au Fri Jan 30 20:24:22 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Fri Jan 30 20:25:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] instructables In-Reply-To: <41B8E1B0BCA24501B3B6466031D3402A@maud> References: <022C4CEB-A7EA-4039-B19D-FE004F975F7F@bigpond.com> <41B8E1B0BCA24501B3B6466031D3402A@maud> Message-ID: <4983B656.1070500@teegee.com.au> Better be careful tho Yani, if you start modifying your skid lid it may no longer comply with AS2063 and you might find yourself breaking Jerry's helmet laws. :) It's actually pretty interesting here in Oz the law still only recognizes AS2063 stamped helmets and if you bring back even an expensive helmet from overseas, it won't fit the bill because here in Oz we don't recognize the merits of any overseas (save NZ) standards for helmets. Presumably we are far better researched on that topic as we have so many folk riding around on bikes??? It's actually a problem for international events held here where cyclists have to source locally approved helmets rather than use their own favourites from home, unless it is a 'sterile' event, ie. in a closed off area. Yani wrote: > http://www.instructables.com/id/All_Weather_Bike_Helmet/ > > Always some fun ideas on this site... yet perhaps a little crazy, mad > inventor style. > > Yani > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Jan 28 23:45:00 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Feb 1 21:59:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] FW: e news Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE038588D742@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Hi everyone I'm forwarding this from SA because I found it so inspiring. Pete ________________________________ From: BSA [mailto:promotions@bsa.webcentral.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 29 January 2009 2:49 PM To: pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au Subject: e news [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/82504/BSA_EnewsBanner.jpg] www.bikesa.asn.au Savings & Loans Coast to Coast 2009 ONLINE REGISTRATIONS OPEN NOW click here [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/82754/Boxing+Day+Crit+58.jpg] ADELAIDETO VICTOR HARBOR In just five minutes you can be registered for one of the best recreational rides you'll get your wheels into, the Savings & Loasn Coast to Coast 120km/100km Adelaide to Victor Harbor. Alternatively, try the 20km Mini Coast to Coast.... For furthe information on the ride and/or registration visit www.bikesa.asn.au EVERY rider receives a $50 Jaggad voucher. Conditions apply. To keep up to date with the latest news on the Savings & Loans Cycling Team visit their website at: http://cyclingteam.savingsloans.com.au/ For training tips to help you prepare for the Savings & Loans Coast to Coast visit: http://www.bikesa.asn.au/page.php?section=39&mId=24 REUTRN TO TOP Adelaide Film Festival and Savings & Loans Coast to Coast unite on Sunday 1 March 2009 Come early or stay for the day at the Adelaide Film Festival Sunday 1 March, Warland Reserve, Victor Harbor COMPETITIVE PICNICKING by socialbomb (USA) Presented by the 2009 BigPond Adelaide Film Festival and the Adelaide Fringe FREE - Kid friendly game: 1 hour of game play 1-3 hours afterwards for unstructured picnicking Throw down your blanket! Will you end the day surrounded by friends and eating a delicious meal, or will you be invaded by ants and left stranded and hungry on the edge of the party? Competitive picnicking is a large multiplayer game of trading items and claiming territories, set on a big lawn on a sunny summer day and using food as game pieces. Players come to the picnic with the basic ingredients for lunch and play a culinary variant of go fish to assemble the highest-scoring snacks and sandwiches. For informayion and registration to play visit www.adelaidefilmfestival.org Rider Spoke 2009 Adelaide Film Festival Friday 20 - Sunday 22 February On the back of Adelaide hosting a fantastic Tour Down Under and enhancing our status as Australia's Cycling Hub, Bicycle SA are pleased to partner with the Adelaide Film Festival and host Rider Spoke, an unique experience. combining theatre with game play and new technology. RIDER SPOKE invites the audience to cycle through city streets, equipped with a handheld computer attached to their bike's handle bars. Using a GPS system, new technology and a live interactive soundtrack, RIDER SPOKE is a game of hide-and-seek across your city. Bicycle SA, 111 FRanklin Street, Adelaide Bikes provided or bring your own. Tickets $15/$20 For further details visit www.adelaidefilmfestival.com or Bicycle SA Mutual Community Challenge Tour 2009 [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/113563/Tour+Down+Under+2009+anagaston+011.jpg] Rode the Mutual Community Challenge Tour? The official photographs of the biggest amateur ride in South Australia have now been uploaded! To see and purchase photographs of yourself participating in this famtastic event go to www.ersomrdstudios.com.ao or call 8523 0678. Thankyou to all participants and volunteers who contributed to this great event! RETURN TO TOP Trail updates January 2009 Premier Mike Rann has announced, that following a record number of recreational cyclists participating in the Mutual Community Challenge Tour, the State Governemnt has announced a numnber of infrastructure projects. Perhaps the most significant being a one million dollar investment in the stage of the Adelaide Hills Road Trail. This is a great outcome for the local community as it has the potential to rival the Riesling Trail. We look forward to keeping you posted on updates! For further information visit www.premier.sa.gov.au Wondering where to ride next? [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/112267/Bike+SA+2009_cov_7cm+copy.jpg] Grab a copy of the recently launched The Advertiser's "BIKESA" where to ride guidebook listing more than 40 of South Australia's best bike rides and mountain bike trails in SA. Discover where to cycle across our regions: Adelaide, Adelaide Hills, Barossa, Clare Valley, Eyre Peninsula, Fleurieu Peninsula, Southern Flinders Ranges, Limestone Coast, Murraylands and Riverland. The guidebook is not only a reference point for local and visiting riders, but also a celebration of our landscape and the attractions in our great state, all in an easy-to-read format. Retailing at just $9.95 this guidebook is suitable for riders of all abilities and all types of cycling to on and off road rides and routes especially for families and kids. You can purchase the book from Bicycle SA by calling 8168 9999 or visiting us at 111 Franklin Street, open 7 days 8am - 6pm. RETURN TO TOP Show your bike some love this Valentines day Comprehensive Bike Care [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/90143/images2.jpg] Bicycle SA's comprehensive bike maintenance course 9am - 4pm, Saturday 14th February. What better way to celebrate Valentines Day! This intensive 6hr course is designed to give you an all-round foundation in maintaining your bicycle. Covering: - Tools; general and bicycle specific - Bearings; different varieties, tolerances, assembly and adjustments - Lubrication; drive, cables and bearings - Bike Checking and cleaning - Tuning For more information visit: http://www.bikesa.asn.au/page.php?section=65. RETURN TO TOP Bike Gears and Brakes 6pm-9pm Thursday 12 February 2009 This course looks specifically at break and gear systems and how to tune and maintain them. For further information on course content and dates visit www.bikesa.asn.au GRAND SLAM CHALLENGE SERIES Grand Slam #1 15 March 2009 [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/87806/gs+road+image.jpg] ADELAIDE HILLS, BAROSSA VALLEY and FLEURIEU PENININSULA Series starts 15 March at Willunga. FIVE GROUP RIDES FIVE PERSONAL CHALLENGES OVER FIVE HUNDRED KILOMETRES You can take on one, some, or all of the slams in the series. There's something special about completing all five rides and being part of Club 500 (plus you receive a gift voucher when you register for the Series*), but it doesn't matter if you miss any, because you're welcome anytime. Each ride combines two different loops of between 40km and 100km and you can complete one or both loops, all starting and finishing in the same location. The MINI SLAM is for those wanting an easier ride, completing only one of the two loops (if you choose Loop 2 only, start at 10.30am). ONLINE REGISTRATION OPENING SOON! EVERY GRAND SLAM SERIES RIDER RECEIVES A $50 JAGGAD VOUCHER! Conditions apply. For further information visit www.bikesa.asn.au/servlet/Web?s=2060570&action=changePage&pageID=342740305 RETURN TO TOP National Ride 2School Day 25 March 2009 [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/107348/R2SCMYK+copy.jpg] "Hands up" if your school has registered for Ride2School Day? Register for Ride2School Day 2009, to be eligible for great student prizes register your school now! Ride2School Day is a national behaviour change initiative which aims to increase the number of students walking and riding to school. In developing our partnership with program managers Bicycle Victoria, Bicycle SA is proud to support this national initiative as we work together to promote kids in both metropolitan and regional South Australia getting on their bikes and riding to school. If you would like to find out more, contact Bicycle SA Ride 2School Facilitator, Ben Woodcok at benw@bsa.asn.au RETURN TO TOP Outback Odyssey Adelaide to Blinman [https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/download/files/05306/103994/2009Bicycles.jpg] Saturday 2 to Saturday 16 May 2009 Each day is an adventure. We ride. We eat. We drink. We have a laugh. Then we get up in the morning and do it all over again! Some days are hard, but the campsite is your home away from home - hot showers, massage and the Handle Bar, where you can put your feet up and enjoy a coldie and good company. Then the sun dips. The stars come out... and the Mawson Man comes out to play! There are plenty of options to fit how long you have... to find out which option suits you best and for further information visit www.bikesa.asn.au Numbers strictly limited to 200 seats and filling fast. Register now to avoid disappointment! RETURN TO TOP Easter Cycle 10 - 13 April 2009 JAMESTOWN Friday 10 - Monday 13 April 2009 With winding road rides around the Southern Flinders Ranges and off raod adventures to Bundaleer Forest, plus a friendly Event Village, our Esater Cycle is the ideal long weekend of relaxed fun for family and friends! >From long day trips to little loops as welkl as our famous Night Ride, our Easter Cycle has plenty in the programme to keep everyone entertained for the whole weekend. Out of the saddle there is bush walking, museum and gallery visits and regional trats including fine wine. Jamestown welcomes riders with open arms. Simply choose from the full Easter Cycle programme of daily loop rides from 1 to 100 km's and discover the beautiful Mid-North for yourself! For further information on the Easter Cycle visit www.bikesa.asn.au RETURN TO TOP Other non Bicycle SA events There's lots happening in the world of cycling from charity rides, conferences to skills days. CLICK HERE to find out more about what's happening in on road cycling SA. CLICK HERE to find out what's happening in the off road world of cycling. RETURN TO TOP office@bikesa.asn.au 08 8168 9999 www.bikesa.asn.au This email was sent by Bicycle SA, 111 Franklin Street Adelaide, S.A 5000, Ph: +61 8 8168 9999, F: -61 8 8168 9988, office@bikesa.asn.au to pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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