From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 1 01:01:37 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Dec 1 01:01:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 9 Driving Habits that Most Annoy Cyclists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30196D02DF50499BBD5C93CB639C5D2E@maud> I?d add Looking to the right when turning left but never looking ahead or to the left before pulling out. And When the car in ? out of a driveway and can?t go anywhere for traffic waiting for a cyclist to in front decide to move forward when you can?t go anywhere and it?s assumed you are stationery. And Using a small car that isn?t very wide to tow a boat that fills near the whole lane and then pass close to a cyclist who has no idea what you are towing. But that is a damn good list. Drivers be damned. I drive a car likely way more miles than I cycle and certainly when I consider my whole driving history. I can?t even remember a time when cyclists annoyed me beyond, ?oh bugger that I wish I could mount the footpath too? but when cycling it would be every 3rd trip where someone screams something from a car. I?ve been hit about X5 more on the bike than in the car for a fraction of the miles. When cyclists that drive genuinely start to complain about cyclists there is an issue. When drivers who are too lazy to even walk complain I?m not listening. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 2:39 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] 9 Driving Habits that Most Annoy Cyclists http://www.sidiergo.com/blog/9-driving-habits-that-most-annoy-cyclists/ R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091201/cd6384af/attachment.htm From a.rasmussen at qut.edu.au Wed Dec 2 02:19:50 2009 From: a.rasmussen at qut.edu.au (Andrew Rasmussen) Date: Wed Dec 2 02:20:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] More cycling on RN - Background Briefing Message-ID: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECC2DA088@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> 9am Sunday 6th Dec http://www.abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/stories/2009/2758349.htm Looks like it will be worth a listen... A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091202/e7632575/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Dec 3 18:18:34 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Dec 3 18:19:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Who owns the roads? How motorised traffic discourages walking and bicycling Message-ID: New article in Injury Prevention http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/15/6/369.full R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091204/b096de2e/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Dec 3 18:33:51 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Dec 3 18:34:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Who owns the roads? How motorised traffic discourages walking and bicycling Message-ID: <200912040033.nB40XpCt010080@mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au> and the benefits of active transport for climate change: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)61714-1/abstract > Richard Hockey wrote: > > New article in Injury Prevention > > http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/15/6/369.full > > R From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 3 23:52:30 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Dec 3 23:52:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Message-ID: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I haven't even used it yet! http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091203/c23a701f/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Dec 4 01:29:58 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Dec 4 01:30:00 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destroy it In-Reply-To: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091204072946.XEGL17290.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Anthony ... Thanks ... fascinating ... If it comes to pass, it will demonstrates the Queensland versions of integrated planning and job creation ... not to forget it was the now Treasurer and local MP, then Minister for Local Government and Planning, who seemed to be the "mover" of the bridge ... given it actually started off life as a request from locals to get across Milton Road to Sylvan Road to get to/from Toowong State School but that apparently could not be done because of ... the tunnel proposal ... although no doubt other reasons too ...! But it also again raises the question in relation to whether there is ANY integration of transport planning in SEQ if it is the BCC that decides where the tunnel is to go ... then apparently tells the Minister ...! Like the CLEM 7 and the ICB before it, it will be interesting to see if BCC promises a reduction of traffic on Milton Road and the incorporation of a pedestrian and cyclist crossing of Milton Road near Frederick and Sylvan Roads. MY........................ At 03:52 PM 4/12/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >I haven't even used it yet! > >http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. >Hurry, ends Nov 30. >Enter >now. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: >12/04/09 05:36:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091204/791a57c7/attachment.htm From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Fri Dec 4 19:19:22 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Fri Dec 4 19:19:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it In-Reply-To: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B2E16B2-0D82-478B-A303-3D819F930E5A@ozemail.com.au> As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would happen....not. If e You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee wrote: > I haven't even used it yet! > > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. > Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now. > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091205/a61eee95/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat Dec 5 02:24:50 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat Dec 5 02:26:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it In-Reply-To: <5B2E16B2-0D82-478B-A303-3D819F930E5A@ozemail.com.au> References: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5B2E16B2-0D82-478B-A303-3D819F930E5A@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Bob Wagner To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would happen....not. If e You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee wrote: I haven't even used it yet! > >http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html > > Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > >________________________________ >Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now. _______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091205/a7199161/attachment.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Sat Dec 5 05:23:06 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Sat Dec 5 05:23:34 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it In-Reply-To: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sceptics. Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they pull the old one down! Regards, Norm the hopeless optimist. Woombye 0409 63 99 44 Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K Rudd One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% increase by 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me just say Kevin, "it's not", whatever that means. NFM -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 PM To: Bob Wagner Cc: BIQ Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Bob Wagner To: Anthony Lee Cc: BIQ Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would happen....not. If e You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee wrote: I haven't even used it yet! http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now . _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091205/6abf9750/attachment.htm From pmgough at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 15:01:50 2009 From: pmgough at gmail.com (Peter Gough) Date: Sat Dec 5 15:02:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it In-Reply-To: References: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak louder than words. Pete 2009/12/5 Norm Morwood > Sceptics. Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they pull the > old one down! > > Regards, Norm the hopeless optimist. > Woombye 0409 63 99 44 > Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K > Rudd > One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% increase by > 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me just say Kevin, "it's > not", whatever that means. NFM > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto: > bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] *On Behalf Of *Anthony Lee > *Sent:* Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 PM > *To:* Bob Wagner > *Cc:* BIQ > *Subject:* Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > > Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Wagner > *To:* Anthony Lee > *Cc:* BIQ > *Sent:* Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM > *Subject:* Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > > As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give us > a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would > happen....not. If e > You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant > flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. > > Bob Wagner > Sent from my iPhone > > On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee wrote: > > I haven't even used it yet! > > > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > ------------------------------ > Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends > Nov 30. Enter now > . > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > ------------------------------ > Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now > . > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091206/4baecaec/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat Dec 5 15:39:15 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat Dec 5 15:39:29 2009 Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) In-Reply-To: References: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Agree. What do people here feel about a petition? I don't really care who's fault it is to start with but just like the Coro Drive bikeway why is a sizable minority being duded again? I remembered the most recent times when BCC try to do us over, sufficient anger meant that we managed to get some sense out of BCC. Recall, Initially they made us walk 500 metres (and a lot of us had to do it on cleats on potentially very slippery surfaces). We still had to do it for some weeks until the BCC got the message. If we act early now then there must be a good chance that we can force the council to not to treat us like dirt again. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Gough To: Norm Morwood Cc: BIQ Sent: Sun, 6 December, 2009 7:01:50 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak louder than words. Pete 2009/12/5 Norm Morwood > > > > > > > >Sceptics. >Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they pull the old one >down! > >Regards, Normthe >hopeless optimist. >Woombye 0409 63 99 44 >Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K >Rudd >One of >two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% increase by 2050 >in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me just say Kevin, "it's not", >whatever that means. NFM >-----Original Message----- >>From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On >> Behalf Of Anthony Lee >>Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 >> PM >>To: Bob Wagner >>Cc: BIQ >>Subject: Re: [bikeqld] >> Better use it before they destory it >> >> >>Then we >> better make sure that they don't knock it down! >> >> Anthony Lee >>The Doctor -- the last of the Time >> Lords? >>........-- __o >>....-- _ \<,_ >>........(_) / (_) >>E-Mail: >> doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Bob Wagner >> >>To: Anthony Lee >> >>Cc: BIQ >> >>Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 >> AM >>Subject: Re: [bikeqld] >> Better use it before they destory it >> >> >>As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give >> us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would >> happen....not. If e >>You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant >> flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. >> >>Bob Wagner >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee >> wrote: >> >> >>I >>> haven't even used it yet! >>> >>>http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html >>> >>> Anthony Lee >>>The Doctor -- the last of the Time >>> Lords? >>>........-- __o >>>....-- _ \<,_ >>>........(_) / (_) >>> >>>E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends >>> Nov 30. Enter now. >>_______________________________________________ >>>bikeqld >>> mailing list >>>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>>This >>> list has NO affiliation with Bicycle >>> Queensland. >>________________________________ >> Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now. >_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > __________________________________________________________________________________ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091205/9816b81e/attachment-0001.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Sat Dec 5 16:26:44 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Sat Dec 5 16:27:01 2009 Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) In-Reply-To: <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99071B0E15AA43FC8A8CFD93937950AE@maud> Sure I'll sign anything. ;) Bottom line is this is typical. It's a bike bridge this time but it happens with phone lines, power pole, sewage pipes. I'm not sure the exact ratio by QT knows that 50% (say) of the budget for any road work is spend moving services. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Sunday, 6 December 2009 7:39 AM To: pmgough@gmail.com; Norm Morwood Cc: BIQ Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) Agree. What do people here feel about a petition? I don't really care who's fault it is to start with but just like the Coro Drive bikeway why is a sizable minority being duded again? I remembered the most recent times when BCC try to do us over, sufficient anger meant that we managed to get some sense out of BCC. Recall, Initially they made us walk 500 metres (and a lot of us had to do it on cleats on potentially very slippery surfaces). We still had to do it for some weeks until the BCC got the message. If we act early now then there must be a good chance that we can force the council to not to treat us like dirt again. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Peter Gough To: Norm Morwood Cc: BIQ Sent: Sun, 6 December, 2009 7:01:50 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak louder than words. Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091206/bed937ac/attachment.htm From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Sat Dec 5 16:29:47 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Sat Dec 5 16:30:15 2009 Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) In-Reply-To: <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <780B25C3-8259-4F17-830B-C0FD6001C0A1@ozemail.com.au> Good idea. Get everyone thinking of a solution before the event. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 06/12/2009, at 7:39 AM, Anthony Lee wrote: > Agree. What do people here feel about a petition? I don't really > care who's fault it is to start with but just like the Coro > Drive bikeway why is a sizable minority being duded again? I > remembered the most recent times when BCC try to do us > over, sufficient anger meant that we managed to get some sense out > of BCC. Recall, Initially they made us walk > 500 metres (and a lot of us had to do it on cleats on potentially > very slippery surfaces). We still had to do it for some > weeks until the BCC got the message. If we act early now then > there must be a good chance that we can force the council to not to > treat us like dirt again. > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > From: Peter Gough > To: Norm Morwood > Cc: BIQ > Sent: Sun, 6 December, 2009 7:01:50 AM > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > > Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to > put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto > your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so > before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will > then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually > finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out > the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. > > Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak > louder than words. > > Pete > > 2009/12/5 Norm Morwood > Sceptics. Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they > pull the old one down! > > Regards, Norm the hopeless optimist. > Woombye 0409 63 99 44 > Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a > nation." K Rudd > One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% > increase by 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me > just say Kevin, "it's not", whatever that means. NFM > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld- > bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee > Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 PM > To: Bob Wagner > Cc: BIQ > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > > Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > From: Bob Wagner > To: Anthony Lee > Cc: BIQ > Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > > As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they > give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that > this would happen....not. If e > You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a > constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. > > Bob Wagner > Sent from my iPhone > > On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee > wrote: > >> I haven't even used it yet! >> >> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html >> >> Anthony Lee >> The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >> ........-- __o >> ....-- _ \<,_ >> ........(_) / (_) >> E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >> >> >> Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. >> Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now. > >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now. > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091206/688e6440/attachment-0001.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Sat Dec 5 19:11:18 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Sat Dec 5 19:12:01 2009 Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) In-Reply-To: <780B25C3-8259-4F17-830B-C0FD6001C0A1@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: I'd certainly sign a petition to have the replacement facility in before destroying the old one as I don't at all believe what my optimism is telling me. One of those parliamentary e-petitions I reckon is the way to go as they are fully authentic and checks are made (or at least able to be made) that people only sign once. Maybe Andrew Frazer would get one going? Or anyone in a nearby electorate. Ronan is no longer there of course. I'm not sure of the procedure but I thought it had to be a member of parliament to do it. Also backed by something on talk back media and/or a newspaper would be good. Regards, Norm. Woombye 0409 63 99 44 Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K Rudd One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% increase by 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me just say Kevin, "it's not", whatever that means. NFM -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wagner [mailto:b.wagner@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 6 December 2009 8:30 AM To: Anthony Lee Cc: pmgough@gmail.com; Norm Morwood; BIQ Subject: Re: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) Good idea. Get everyone thinking of a solution before the event. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 06/12/2009, at 7:39 AM, Anthony Lee wrote: Agree. What do people here feel about a petition? I don't really care who's fault it is to start with but just like the Coro Drive bikeway why is a sizable minority being duded again? I remembered the most recent times when BCC try to do us over, sufficient anger meant that we managed to get some sense out of BCC. Recall, Initially they made us walk 500 metres (and a lot of us had to do it on cleats on potentially very slippery surfaces). We still had to do it for some weeks until the BCC got the message. If we act early now then there must be a good chance that we can force the council to not to treat us like dirt again. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Peter Gough To: Norm Morwood Cc: BIQ Sent: Sun, 6 December, 2009 7:01:50 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak louder than words. Pete 2009/12/5 Norm Morwood < busrail@fastmail.fm> Sceptics. Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they pull the old one down! Regards, Norm the hopeless optimist. Woombye 0409 63 99 44 Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K Rudd One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% increase by 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me just say Kevin, "it's not", whatever that means. NFM -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 PM To: Bob Wagner Cc: BIQ Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ From: Bob Wagner < b.wagner@ozemail.com.au> To: Anthony Lee < doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au> Cc: BIQ < bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au> Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that this would happen....not. If e You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. Bob Wagner Sent from my iPhone On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee < doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au> wrote: I haven't even used it yet! http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. Hurry, ends Nov 30. Enter now . _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now . _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091206/10daf70a/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sat Dec 5 21:25:51 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sat Dec 5 21:26:12 2009 Subject: A petition? (was Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it) In-Reply-To: <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <408169.57677.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <930674.56825.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091206032533.FDTB7394.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Also worth noting that tenders (or expressions of interest) are about to be or have been called for the next bit of "upgrade" on Bicentennial part-shared part segregated path ... Wonder whether the same sorts of problems will occur ... or if better options will be provided? MY........................ At 07:39 AM 6/12/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Agree. What do people here feel about a petition? I don't really >care who's fault it is to start with but just like the Coro >Drive bikeway why is a sizable minority being duded again? I >remembered the most recent times when BCC try to do us >over, sufficient anger meant that we managed to get some sense out >of BCC. Recall, Initially they made us walk >500 metres (and a lot of us had to do it on cleats on potentially >very slippery surfaces). We still had to do it for some >weeks until the BCC got the message. If we act early now then >there must be a good chance that we can force the council to not to >treat us like dirt again. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Peter Gough >To: Norm Morwood >Cc: BIQ >Sent: Sun, 6 December, 2009 7:01:50 AM >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > >Unfortunately experience would suggest that they're more likely to >put some sort of bicycle detour in place, adding ten minutes onto >your average bicycle journey time. This will happen a month or so >before anyone turns up to do any work on the roads. The bridge will >then disappear, traffic chaos will ensue, roadworks will eventually >finish and then a month after the car drivers have been sorted out >the bicycle route will finally be reinstated. > >Council pays lip service to sustainable transport but actions speak >louder than words. > >Pete > >2009/12/5 Norm Morwood <busrail@fastmail.fm> >Sceptics. Surely they'll build the new bike facility before they >pull the old one down! > >Regards, Norm the hopeless optimist. >Woombye 0409 63 99 44 >Disclaimer: "it's good in terms of what we can sustain as a nation." K Rudd >One of two points made to Kerry O'Brien explaining how a 60% >increase by 2050 in Australia's population is sustainable. Let me >just say Kevin, "it's not", whatever that means. NFM >-----Original Message----- >From: >bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee >Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:25 PM >To: Bob Wagner >Cc: BIQ >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > >Then we better make sure that they don't knock it down! > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: Bob Wagner <b.wagner@ozemail.com.au> >To: Anthony Lee <doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au> >Cc: BIQ <bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au> >Sent: Sat, 5 December, 2009 11:19:22 AM >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destory it > >As someone who crosses on the bridge 4-5 times a week. I hope they >give us a SAFE alternative in the transition time. I am sure that >this would happen....not. If e >You go to Cootha on a Wed morning around 5:30 to 7:00 there is a >constant flow of riders, all doing loops and exiting via the bridge. > >Bob Wagner >Sent from my iPhone > >On 04/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, Anthony Lee ><doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > >>I haven't even used it yet! >> >>http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26437953-952,00.html >> >>Anthony Lee >>The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >>........-- __o >>....-- _ \<,_ >>........(_) / (_) >>E-Mail: >>doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >> >> >> >>Last chance to win a Sony entertainment pack thanks to Yahoo!7. >>Hurry, ends Nov 30. >>Enter >>now. >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. >Enter >now. > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > >Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. >Enter >now. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.95/2547 - Release Date: >12/06/09 05:41:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091206/69458fbe/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Sun Dec 6 17:55:29 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Sun Dec 6 17:55:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Better use it before they destroy it In-Reply-To: <20091204072946.XEGL17290.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <847614.6200.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20091204072946.XEGL17290.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <20091204174926.D1557@singha.lister.id.au> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: [snip] > Like the CLEM 7 and the ICB before it, it will be interesting to see if > BCC promises a reduction of traffic on Milton Road and the incorporation > of a pedestrian and cyclist crossing of Milton Road near Frederick and > Sylvan Roads. The EIS forecast a reduction in traffic of 7-10% on Milton Rd, relative to not building the tunnel In absolute terms it's still a 29% increase over 19 years. See table 5-37 on page 5-107: http://www.northernlinkeis.com.au/pdf/eis/Vol1/Vol1_Chapter%205_Traffic%20and%20Transport.pdf It does not include any new crossing of Milton Rd, and in fact removed the crossing on the western side of the intersection with Croydon St and Morley St. We were pushing for a crossing between Quinn St and Gregory St but it was deemed to be too expensive (based on fairly fallacious use of the traffic counts from the crossing to be removed). An extension to the proposed ramps between Milton Rd and the tunnel (next to Frederick St) to allow ped/cycle access to Sylvan Rd was also ruled out on the basis of cost (and the benefit being of no interest to the project). Now that the Toowong "local access" access has been removed and the project doesn't include any surface works in the area, there's no chance of anything. See the plans for the area in the original EIS: http://www.northernlinkeis.com.au/pdf/eis/Vol2/07%20EIS-PL-04%20A1%20Sketch.pdf See the revised plans, which don't include anything around Milton Rd: http://www.northernlinkeis.com.au/pdf/SuppReport/Vol2/eis-pl-00.pdf Cheers, Ian From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Dec 7 01:03:54 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Dec 7 01:04:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] More cycling on RN - Background Briefing In-Reply-To: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECC2DA088@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECC2DA088@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <20091207170217.T1557@singha.lister.id.au> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Andrew Rasmussen wrote: > 9am Sunday 6th Dec > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/stories/2009/2758349.htm > > Looks like it will be worth a listen... For anybody who missed it, the programme is now available online: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2009/12/bbg_20091206.mp3 Ian From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Dec 7 16:01:31 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Dec 7 16:01:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Improved behaviour? Message-ID: <20091208075325.M1557@singha.lister.id.au> I did my first river loop for months this morning and was pleasantly surprised by how courteous all the cyclists I saw were. They even all stopped for the red light on Gladstone Rd and didn't get cranky at or try to get past the traffic controller with a "stop" sign on Riverside Drive. Was it just a good day, or has behaviour improved a bit? Has recent negative attention from cyclist road rage incidents and pedestrian conflict at the Bicentennial and Hale St works caused people to think a bit more, perhaps? Cheers, Ian From a.rasmussen at qut.edu.au Thu Dec 10 00:04:23 2009 From: a.rasmussen at qut.edu.au (Andrew Rasmussen) Date: Thu Dec 10 00:04:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] openstreetmap Message-ID: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECCF85FB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Hi all, I just stumbled across this neat resource, which obviously has quite a bit on local input, but I haven't seen it mentioned here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.47091&lon=153.01668&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF "OpenStreetMap is a free editable map of the whole world. It is made by people like you. OpenStreetMap allows you to view, edit and use geographical data in a collaborative way from anywhere on Earth. " Figure it could be of all sorts of uses for this group. It's even got the Mt Cootha mtb trails. Regards, Andrew Rasmussen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091210/e8546833/attachment.htm From cbarham at pobox.com Thu Dec 10 00:30:24 2009 From: cbarham at pobox.com (Chris Barham) Date: Thu Dec 10 00:30:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] openstreetmap In-Reply-To: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECCF85FB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <9BE716D7BB4498428CD71F842BAE12251ECCF85FB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <375e8d880912092230j3391b863g1186c3c216049523@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Andrew Rasmussen wrote: > I just stumbled across this neat resource, which obviously has quite a > bit on local input, but I haven?t seen it mentioned here: > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.47091&lon=153.01668&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > > Might also want to look at OpenCycleMap which has a cyclist specific rendering of the same data: http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=11&lat=-27.42119&lon=153.05548&layers=B000 Should you want to help add more map data (places like Longreach in Qld are a little bare), see this site f: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brisbane Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091210/3bfcd48f/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Dec 10 00:45:22 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Dec 10 00:45:48 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] openstreetmap Message-ID: <200912100645.nBA6jMTG009850@mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au> Interested to know why people would use it over Bikely.com? P > Andrew Rasmussen wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just stumbled across this neat resource, which obviously has quite a > bit on local input, but I haven't seen it mentioned here: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.47091&lon=153.01668&zoom=16&layers= > B000FTF > > > "OpenStreetMap is a free editable map of the whole world. It is made by > people like you. > > OpenStreetMap allows you to view, edit and use geographical data in a > collaborative way from anywhere on Earth. > " > > Figure it could be of all sorts of uses for this group. > > It's even got the Mt Cootha mtb trails. > > Regards, > > Andrew Rasmussen From cbarham at pobox.com Thu Dec 10 01:15:28 2009 From: cbarham at pobox.com (Chris Barham) Date: Thu Dec 10 01:15:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] openstreetmap In-Reply-To: <200912100645.nBA6jMTG009850@mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au> References: <200912100645.nBA6jMTG009850@mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <375e8d880912092315v7bb4fb67t268239cd97bd7f44@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Peter Whittle wrote: > Interested to know why people would use it over Bikely.com > The main reason is that Bikely uses Google Mapping, which has following restrictive terms of use: http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/help/terms_maps.html See, those Bikely/Google/MapData Sciences terms do not allow you to make derivative works - for example a custom map rendering of only cycling specific data such as OpenCycleMap. OpenStreetMap is open source and allows this (the official rationale is here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page ). The reason I got into OpenStreetMap because of a frustration with incorrect online maps. There is a map naming error for a local park off Quandeine Street in Stafford and the correct name is Keong Park (See http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_1098 ). Google Maps doesn't call it anything: http://j.mp/7wgDd2 (MapData Sciences Pty Ltd source data) Bing Maps calls it Stafford Park: http://j.mp/83hJtM (MapData Sciences Pty Ltd source data) Yahoo Maps incorrectly calls it Ennoggera Park: http://j.mp/5q1iQX Openstreetmap gets it right - Keong Park - http://j.mp/5OC0X3 - hurrah! So strangely, the only one that was correct is also the only one I could have edited and renamed. BTW, this amateur mapmaking is strangely addictive :-) You could contribute by sending in road names; print off a sheet from walking-papers.org such as this one of some streets around Ferny Grove (with missing street names: http://walking-papers.org/print.php?id=pqw5xkdm you then write on the street names and either scan it in or edit them yourself. Alternatively, perhaps if you have an iPhone, you could get the apps Mapzen and OSMTrack and you are ready to map all your favourite cycle tracks and routes. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091210/33e0841b/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Dec 10 02:47:28 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Dec 10 02:48:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] openstreetmap Message-ID: <200912100847.nBA8lSuO023640@mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au> Far out! > Chris Barham wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Peter Whittle > > wrote: > > > Interested to know why people would use it over Bikely.com > > > > The main reason is that Bikely uses Google Mapping, which has following > restrictive terms of use: > http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/help/terms_maps.html > See, those Bikely/Google/MapData Sciences terms do not allow you to make > derivative works - for example a custom map rendering of only cycling > specific data such as OpenCycleMap. OpenStreetMap is open source and > allows > this (the official rationale is here > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page ). > > The reason I got into OpenStreetMap because of a frustration with > incorrect > online maps. There is a map naming error for a local park off Quandeine > Street in Stafford and the correct name is Keong Park (See > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_1098 ). > Google Maps doesn't call it anything: http://j.mp/7wgDd2 (MapData > Sciences > Pty Ltd source data) > Bing Maps calls it Stafford Park: http://j.mp/83hJtM (MapData Sciences > Pty > Ltd source data) > Yahoo Maps incorrectly calls it Ennoggera Park: http://j.mp/5q1iQX > Openstreetmap gets it right - Keong Park - http://j.mp/5OC0X3 - hurrah! > > So strangely, the only one that was correct is also the only one I could > have edited and renamed. > > BTW, this amateur mapmaking is strangely addictive :-) > You could contribute by sending in road names; print off a sheet from > walking-papers.org > such > as this one of some streets around Ferny Grove (with missing street > names: > http://walking-papers.org/print.php?id=pqw5xkdm > you then write on the street names and either scan it in or edit them > yourself. > Alternatively, perhaps if you have an iPhone, you could get the apps > Mapzen > and OSMTrack and you are ready to map all your favourite cycle tracks > and > routes. > > Chris From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Thu Dec 10 22:31:24 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Thu Dec 10 22:32:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Effect of 20 mph traffic speed zones on road injuries in London, 1986-2006: controlled interrupted time series analysis -- Grundy et al. 339: b4469 -- BMJ Message-ID: New from the BMJ http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/339/dec10_3/b4469?papetoc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091211/7673eb21/attachment.htm From peterw60 at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 18:37:23 2009 From: peterw60 at gmail.com (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Dec 13 17:39:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Effect of 20 mph traffic speed zones on road injuries in London, 1986-2006: controlled interrupted time series analysis -- Grundy et al. 339: b4469 -- BMJ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101ca7ac3$4bd2fb90$e378f2b0$@com> And we have 50 in suburban areas, that is turned to 60 with the slightest excuse, and even 70 in places like Tennyson where there are many vulnerable road users (cyclists). Very interesting. What is the best way to bring this to the attention of Qld decision-makers? Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Friday, 11 December 2009 2:31 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Effect of 20 mph traffic speed zones on road injuries in London, 1986-2006: controlled interrupted time series analysis -- Grundy et al. 339: b4469 -- BMJ New from the BMJ http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/339/dec10_3/b4469?papetoc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091212/7ec67ea6/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Tue Dec 22 06:34:19 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Tue Dec 22 06:34:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath Message-ID: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Nearly flew like Santa - very close to over the handlebars Fortunately the trustly 24yr old Repco held the line and only sweat was shed. Watch out for the heap of aggregate/gravel at the bottom of the decline on the bike path between Brisbane Boys Grammer and Girls Grammer. Too much excitement on the way back from a noodle soup. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Dec 22 07:22:59 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Dec 22 07:23:11 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath In-Reply-To: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <351429.7761.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for that, I saw it but forgot to ring council. Fortunately, I wasn't going fast! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 10:34:19 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath Nearly flew like Santa - very close to over the handlebars Fortunately the trustly 24yr old Repco held the line and only sweat was shed. Watch out for the heap of aggregate/gravel at the bottom of the decline on the bike path between Brisbane Boys Grammer and Girls Grammer. Too much excitement on the way back from a noodle soup. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091222/9f4c4dd0/attachment.htm From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Tue Dec 22 17:03:49 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Tue Dec 22 17:04:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath In-Reply-To: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Talking of Gravel, watch out on Mt Cootha, two big washouts on the back. It is bad enough going up, there is sand plus really sharp rocks. Make sure you travel around anti clockwise. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au On 22/12/2009, at 10:34 PM, mich rolling wrote: > Nearly flew like Santa - very close to over the handlebars > Fortunately the trustly 24yr old Repco held the line and only sweat > was shed. > Watch out for the heap of aggregate/gravel at the bottom of the > decline on > the bike path between Brisbane Boys Grammer and Girls Grammer. > Too much excitement on the way back from a noodle soup. > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 23 02:00:46 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Dec 23 02:01:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath In-Reply-To: References: <710669.53915.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <837932.5458.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Bob. I have put in a Fix-o-gram for the Grammar school problem. Perhaps you could do the same for Mt Cootha. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Bob Wagner To: mich rolling Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wed, 23 December, 2009 9:03:49 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Gravel alert! Brisbane Grammer bikepath Talking of Gravel, watch out on Mt Cootha, two big washouts on the back. It is bad enough going up, there is sand plus really sharp rocks. Make sure you travel around anti clockwise. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au On 22/12/2009, at 10:34 PM, mich rolling wrote: > Nearly flew like Santa - very close to over the handlebars > Fortunately the trustly 24yr old Repco held the line and only sweat was shed. > Watch out for the heap of aggregate/gravel at the bottom of the decline on > the bike path between Brisbane Boys Grammer and Girls Grammer. > Too much excitement on the way back from a noodle soup. > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091223/bff1a227/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Dec 27 13:27:23 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Dec 27 13:27:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Paramedics on Bicycles Message-ID: <985967.52267.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Interesting: http://www.news. com.au/national/ partygoers- confused- by-paramedics- on-bicycles/ story-e6frfkx9- 1225813875152 __._,_.___ __,_._,___ __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091227/5b679318/attachment.htm From bulk at ingramtech.com Mon Dec 28 19:59:18 2009 From: bulk at ingramtech.com (bulk@ingramtech.com) Date: Mon Dec 28 19:59:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bicycle Warning Signs in NZ Message-ID: Found this in the NZ Herald this morning: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10617677 Nice to see a local government spending some money to prevent accidents in the first place, and to make the signage interactive. A little blue sign with a pictogram of a bike gets ignored, but an orange lit sign that turns on is going to grab some attention. I wonder if there are places in Queensland where this could be used? David. ----------- Here's the article text: Cyclists welcome hazard sign to alert motorists By Mathew Dearnaley 4:00 AM Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 Cyclists are thrilled with a new solar-powered hazard sign Auckland City has installed for about $60,000 at the dangerous intersection of Tamaki Drive and Ngapipi Rd. The prominent 5m sign, which began operating last week, flashes up in orange lights when approaching city-bound cyclists ride over loops in the road surface in Tamaki Drive, about 30m east of the intersection. It warns motorists facing away from the city while queuing up to turn right at the intersection, into Ngapipi Rd, that cyclists are about to cross their bows from the opposite direction. The council's transport committee decided to run the sign as a trial after 12 cyclists were injured in crashes at the intersection over five years, making it the city's second-worst black spot for pedallers. Plans to install it in February were brought forward after a young woman drove into a pack of cyclists in September at the St Heliers end of Tamaki Drive, injuring four and prompting the council to set up a forum of interested groups to improve safety along the popular waterfront route. The council has also erected 10 blue static signs along the route with messages to road users such as "Slow down and enjoy the journey" and "Take care, watch out for each other". Council network performance manager Karen Hay said much of the cost of the flashing sign was for ducting laid beneath the road to carry "incredibly sensitive" electronic loops triggered by the light weight of a bicycle. She compared the price of about $60,000 with an estimated social cost of about $1.9 million from the crashes which injured the 12 cyclists at the intersection, two seriously. That sum was exceeded at only one other Auckland intersection, that of Mt Smart Rd and Rockfield Rd in Penrose, where the death of a cyclist in a crash last year carried a social cost which was estimated at about $3.5 million. Although no cyclists have been killed on Tamaki Drive in the past five years, the council has calculated a cost of about $9.8 million for 39 injury crashes at 15 intersections along the way, of which Ngapipi Rd is the most notorious. Ms Hay said the council also considered turning it into an intersection controlled by traffic lights, but there was not enough space without widening an approach bridge in Tamaki Drive, which would have pushed the cost to $5.4 million. Although the new sign is working well, Ms Hay urged cyclists to remain in a cycling lane when approaching the intersection, to ensure its sensor loops were triggered. Cycle Action Auckland deputy chairwoman Barbara Cuthbert said cyclists were thrilled that the sign had been put in place for summer, when Tamaki Drive is at its busiest. "It's a particularly hazardous intersection for cyclists and we are thrilled to bits," she said. "I think the council has taken a very important initiative." City transport committee chairman Ken Baguley will consider longer-term suggestions from the safety forum in February to "allow our world-class Tamaki Drive to be enjoyed by all users in a co-operative and mutually beneficial manner". From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Tue Dec 29 00:26:11 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Tue Dec 29 00:26:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Impediments to cycle planning; lack of glossy magazine articles on Brisbane Bridges Message-ID: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Here is a large issue; National Heritage Trust has in it a large fraction of its membership people who don't want anything to change, ever. No trees to come down, no vistas ruined by new bridges or buildings. Part of the problem may lie in the lack of visibility of cycling in planning journals and coffee table books. Without technically solid and/or professionally accepted (through glossy Architecture mags) literature to fall back on planners are operating in a technical vacuum made more professionally dangerous by the lack of 'hey look, this has been done successfully before' glossies to show their bosses and commissioning agents. More architects and planners need to publish more on cycle works in the professional magazines. Without big pretty writeups (locally of the Kurilpa bridge and Schnoell bridges) cycling planners are handicapped when going for the next big project in Brisbane. For example, I predict that any plan for a bridge from Alice St to Kangaroo Point will be opposed by the NHT on the grounds that it will ruin the vista of that section of cliffs and sweeping bend of the river. I hope I am still around to see what happens with the Alice St bridge. It is hard to see how it can be anything other than a suspension bridge with the risk that that bend of the river will end up looking like a biscuit tin image of Stevenson's bridge over the Avon gorge. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo..com/session-times/ From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 29 09:00:44 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Dec 29 09:01:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. Yani From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Tue Dec 29 16:56:15 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Dec 29 16:56:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their building. That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of statistics on city cycling. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 29 17:20:52 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Dec 29 17:21:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8CC7ABDC534640989ECFB482B294D74D@maud> I'll have to take a brief from Brian who took the pic to get the story accurate but as it was told if you didn't have a bike in Amsterdam they gave you one. They even had bicycle police who rather than looked for your misdeeds had tools to help you fix a flat tyre. Bike parking obviously is free. ;) Amsterdam is in 'cars just don't work here' mode, where as we are in 'make money from cyclists' mode. To put that in plain English 'we need to pull our heads out of our arse'. OMG it snows there! What excuse do we have? 'It's too hot and fine?' ;) Yani -----Original Message----- From: Peter Whittle [mailto:pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 8:56 AM To: 'Yani'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike parking I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their building. That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of statistics on city cycling. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Yani Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. Yani _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From cameraperson at bigpond.com Tue Dec 29 17:37:11 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Tue Dec 29 17:39:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> see this http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cycle-centre-badly-located-too-expensive-20091229-lhuw.html On 30/12/2009, at 8:56 AM, Peter Whittle wrote: > I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King > George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and > look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their > building. > > That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of > statistics on city cycling. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Yani > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg > > One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by > a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. > > Yani > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 29 17:57:49 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Dec 29 17:58:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Yep exactly. The model was flawed because the cost is too high. $1 a day would be enough, $80 for a year. If you were cycling and using the train or ferry that's a damned expensive way to travel. Next thing it will be, "of well we tried that and it didn't work so we converted the space to storage". You sell something at a price that fills the space then you jack up the price to reduce demand. Idiots! Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Fanning Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 9:37 AM To: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike parking see this http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cycle-centre-badly-located-too-ex pensive-20091229-lhuw.html From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Tue Dec 29 18:07:38 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Dec 29 18:07:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <001301ca88e4$1a38ede0$4eaac9a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> That's a pretty positive article, even though the headline is (as usual) negative. Even if the start has been 'ordinary', 200 users is pretty good compared to the previous ZERO and there are identifiable directions for improvement. It surprised me that such a high proportion as 73% were previously PT users - that's a great conversion rate. I would like to know how many were car drivers, if any - that would be a far more important conversion. Cr Prentice is fairly creative in finding the silver lining - that the conversions liberated bus/ferry seats :D The 'feeling' I had about the initial needs surveys were they were biased towards how high the charges could go - lots of people criticised the notion that the fee should approximate a daily PT fare and thought it should be free or dirt-cheap. Of course, the minute an employer provides a free EOR facility, who would pay? P -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Fanning Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 9:37 AM To: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike parking see this http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cycle-centre-badly-located-too-ex pensive-20091229-lhuw.html On 30/12/2009, at 8:56 AM, Peter Whittle wrote: > I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King > George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and > look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their > building. > > That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of > statistics on city cycling. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Yani > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg > > One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by > a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. > > Yani > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Tue Dec 29 20:25:29 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Tue Dec 29 20:27:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: I'm guessing that the RBWH cycle centre is fairing no better. It opened weeks ago with no fanfair. R -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au on behalf of Michael Fanning Sent: Wed 30/12/2009 09:37 To: bikeqld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike parking see this http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cycle-centre-badly-located-too-expensive-20091229-lhuw.html On 30/12/2009, at 8:56 AM, Peter Whittle wrote: > I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King > George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and > look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their > building. > > That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of > statistics on city cycling. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Yani > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg > > One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by > a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. > > Yani > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091230/057e5004/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 29 22:23:11 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Tue Dec 29 22:23:56 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking In-Reply-To: <001401ca88e8$51bcac30$f5360490$@com> References: <859307.78061.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><000001ca88da$218f7be0$64ae73a0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <78EC5AA7-18C1-4EA3-9C58-52B6B44B845F@bigpond.com> <001401ca88e8$51bcac30$f5360490$@com> Message-ID: <4EB899FD4D86402B97FF3E4412BC1A58@maud> Good marketing starts by selling all of the product manufactured then lifting the price to reduce demand. 1/2 full is 1/2 full. That's not cars off the road or people out of public transport. $8 a day is clearly more expensive than public transport. It's not open 24/7 AND it's not full. It's not even open late enough to go to the movies or dinner in town. Closed by 8PM. Who does it target? The elite. There is no discounts for unemployed or students. It required cash up front which is stupid. Ask any gym they all do monthly account deductions for a reason. Yea I do want over demand! Then you jack the price up not before. "We have got a LONG way to go before we are within cooee of Amsterdam and many other European cities." How did Amsterdam get there? They made cycling the cheapest and most highly supported means of transport. We made parking a bike and having a shower cost $1040 a year. And even then if you work past 8pm you're screwed. You don't solve our problems at 200 bikes a day. You solve the problems by having so many bikes parked that more space is required. You can fit 40 bikes into one car space that costs <$40 a day. That's $1 a bike not $5. You have people who have given up polluting the city to be punished for it. "Grim view", yes with this sort of policy we are truly screwed. It's a matter of 'displacement' so many bikes that cars are displaced. "You can't park a car in the city as there are too many bikes." Next solution with be 50 expensive hire bikes. WOW that will make a difference won't it. I got an invite from the Mayor to a tunnel walk, despite my known views on commuter cycling I didn't get a free bike parking ticket. Council can afford to subsidise every place in that bike park and have it full. They charge every company in the CBD for ever car space they provide. Busting at the seams and spreading onto the street is what we need to see! Yani -----Original Message----- From: Peter Whittle [mailto:peterw60@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 10:38 AM To: 'Yani'; 'Michael Fanning'; 'bikeqld' Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike parking I think that's a grim view Yani. There are definite arguments for pricing it around the daily bus fare: - it's only 400 places, so you don't want to flood it with over-demand - at that price, you still get your health bonus, so it's marginally attractive - they have scope to reduce it and increase demand, which is a lot better than increasing the price to reduce demand - by having the price as it is, cyclists keep the pressure up on employers to provide in-house facilities. We have got a LONG way to go before we are within cooee of Amsterdam and many other European cities. We would all like to see faster progress, but there's a lot to be said for a slow start, against nothing at all. Pete From aaron_wray at hotmail.com Wed Dec 30 01:45:06 2009 From: aaron_wray at hotmail.com (Aaron Wray) Date: Wed Dec 30 01:45:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 52, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <200912300424.nBU4O6Nn019337@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200912300424.nBU4O6Nn019337@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: I had the pleasure of using the new RBWH cycle centre http://www.health.qld.gov.au/rbwh_cycle_centre/ the other day. It was a wonderful experience. Beautiful well thought through facilities, 24hr swipe access with security monitors and a towel. It's a little cheaper than the Cycle2City facility as they are mostly interested in just covering costs. I think it cost me $5 for a 24hr use which I was more than willing to pay for the quality (I'm a bit tight but found that price reasonable to feel safe that my bike would be there when I get back the intro 12mth membership is $7.50 a week). There was just under 100 members and around a dozen or so casual users. It has capacity up to 900 bikes but it was built for the future. There have done promotions around the RBWH and considering the future expansion of the Ekka/Bowen hills precinct and future better connections in the area Id suggest it's going to be popular. Cheers Aaron > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:25:29 +1000 > From: "Richard Hockey" > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike parking > To: "Michael Fanning" , "bikeqld" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'm guessing that the RBWH cycle centre is fairing no better. It opened weeks ago with no fanfair. > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au on behalf of Michael Fanning > Sent: Wed 30/12/2009 09:37 > To: bikeqld > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > see this > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cycle-centre-badly-located-too-expensive-20091229-lhuw.html > > > On 30/12/2009, at 8:56 AM, Peter Whittle wrote: > > > I heard Cr Jane Prentice on the radio yesterday, explaining why the King > > George Square bike parking is at just half capacity: companies come down and > > look at it and say, Isn't this great, and go back to install one in their > > building. > > > > That has to be good, I guess? It will be interesting to see the next set of > > statistics on city cycling. > > > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > > On Behalf Of Yani > > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 1:01 AM > > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > Subject: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > > > http://imagonullius.com/bike/bike-parking%20-amsterdam.jpg > > > > One of 3 bike parks in Amsterdam. It's high res so you can zoom in taken by > > a mate this year. A good one for the wiki. > > > > Yani > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bikeqld mailing list > > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091230/057e5004/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:23:11 +1000 > From: "Yani" > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike parking > To: "'Peter Whittle'" , "'Michael Fanning'" > , "'bikeqld'" > Message-ID: <4EB899FD4D86402B97FF3E4412BC1A58@maud> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good marketing starts by selling all of the product manufactured then > lifting the price to reduce demand. > > 1/2 full is 1/2 full. That's not cars off the road or people out of public > transport. $8 a day is clearly more expensive than public transport. > > It's not open 24/7 AND it's not full. It's not even open late enough to go > to the movies or dinner in town. Closed by 8PM. > > Who does it target? The elite. > > There is no discounts for unemployed or students. It required cash up front > which is stupid. Ask any gym they all do monthly account deductions for a > reason. > > Yea I do want over demand! Then you jack the price up not before. > > "We have got a LONG way to go before we are within cooee of Amsterdam and > many other European cities." > > How did Amsterdam get there? They made cycling the cheapest and most highly > supported means of transport. We made parking a bike and having a shower > cost $1040 a year. And even then if you work past 8pm you're screwed. > > You don't solve our problems at 200 bikes a day. You solve the problems by > having so many bikes parked that more space is required. You can fit 40 > bikes into one car space that costs <$40 a day. That's $1 a bike not $5. > > You have people who have given up polluting the city to be punished for it. > > "Grim view", yes with this sort of policy we are truly screwed. It's a > matter of 'displacement' so many bikes that cars are displaced. "You can't > park a car in the city as there are too many bikes." > > Next solution with be 50 expensive hire bikes. WOW that will make a > difference won't it. > > I got an invite from the Mayor to a tunnel walk, despite my known views on > commuter cycling I didn't get a free bike parking ticket. > > Council can afford to subsidise every place in that bike park and have it > full. They charge every company in the CBD for ever car space they provide. > > Busting at the seams and spreading onto the street is what we need to see! > > Yani > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Whittle [mailto:peterw60@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 10:38 AM > To: 'Yani'; 'Michael Fanning'; 'bikeqld' > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Bike parking > > I think that's a grim view Yani. There are definite arguments for pricing it > around the daily bus fare: > > - it's only 400 places, so you don't want to flood it with over-demand > - at that price, you still get your health bonus, so it's marginally > attractive > - they have scope to reduce it and increase demand, which is a lot better > than increasing the price to reduce demand > - by having the price as it is, cyclists keep the pressure up on employers > to provide in-house facilities. > > We have got a LONG way to go before we are within cooee of Amsterdam and > many other European cities. We would all like to see faster progress, but > there's a lot to be said for a slow start, against nothing at all. > > Pete > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 52, Issue 17 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK Australia's #1 job site http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091230/08748cda/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Dec 30 02:12:39 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Dec 30 02:13:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 52, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: References: <200912300424.nBU4O6Nn019337@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <8FDEEFABAFBA465A8C5B280D504EB034@maud> 100 members 900 spaces So free is what it should cost. Either we are about encouraging cycling or we are about making cycling a profit centre. If we are to get people to change habits, we need to be serious about it. Queensland Health should be offering a free bike to staff or a coupon for $500 towards one. Set some decent goals for the city like 20% less cars in 5 years. We need to take radical positions because positions that aren?t radical lead to Copoutinhagan. http://www.ageofstupid.net/ If the Liberals want to go on about cutting CO2 without a tax then let them put the money where the mouth is and NOT charge for bike parking. You did your bit by cycling, they can contribute the parking. Stuff them! I when up the Mater with the old man this week, 1 ? hours of car parking was $11. That?s how you pay for free bike parking. Yani _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Aaron Wray Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 5:45 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RE: bikeqld Digest, Vol 52, Issue 17 I had the pleasure of using the new RBWH cycle centre http://www.health.qld.gov.au/rbwh_cycle_centre/ the other day. It was a wonderful experience. Beautiful well thought through facilities, 24hr swipe access with security monitors and a towel. It's a little cheaper than the Cycle2City facility as they are mostly interested in just covering costs. I think it cost me $5 for a 24hr use which I was more than willing to pay for the quality (I'm a bit tight but found that price reasonable to feel safe that my bike would be there when I get back the intro 12mth membership is $7.50 a week). There was just under 100 members and around a dozen or so casual users. It has capacity up to 900 bikes but it was built for the future. There have done promotions around the RBWH and considering the future expansion of the Ekka/Bowen hills precinct and future better connections in the area Id suggest it's going to be popular. Cheers Aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091230/9b72445e/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Dec 30 16:43:14 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Dec 30 16:43:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven - Time.com Message-ID: <20091230224227.FSTK5111.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Some may find the following of interest ... even a "New Year" wish? Maybe a "Rudd" policy for 2010 .. to help reduce CO2 ... one that would be supported by the cycling-opposition leader too??? MY............. Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:37:17 +0100 >Subject: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut >Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven - Time.com > >Thanks to Christopher Hart for the heads-up > > >http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1949156,00.html?artId=1949156?contType=article?chn=sciHealth > > >Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven > > > >By >Leo >Cendrowicz Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 > > > >A highway in the Netherlands is congested. > >Traffic jams are infuriating wherever you are, >but in the Netherlands, they are the source of >particular angst. Not only is the densely >populated country home to Europe's most >congested metropolitan region ? the area callled >the Randstad that incorporates Amsterdam, >Rotterdam, Utrecht and The Hague ??? but many >Dutch people live below sea level, making them >more than a little nervous about carbon >emissions, global warming and the possibility >that their country could soon be underwater. > >No wonder then that the Dutch government is >trying something revolutionary to reduce the >number of cars on the road ? taxing every >motoorist who gets behind the wheel based on the >distance of their trip and the kind of car they >drive. The plan, which was approved by the Dutch >cabinet in November and is expected to be >implemented in 2012, aims to eventually cut the >number of traffic jams in the country in half. > >Here's how it works: every car owner will be >required to purchase a GPS machine that is able >to send data tracking the distances of trips to >a billing agency. Any motorist caught without >the device will be fined. People driving a >standard family sedan will be charged 3 euro >cents per kilometer in 2012, with the tax going >up every year until 2018, when it is expected to >top out at an average of 6.7 cents per >kilometer. So, for instance, a trip from >Amsterdam to Eindhoven and back ? a distance of >about 250 kilometers ? w? will cost the driver >of a standard sedan about ?7.5 ($10.75) in 2012. >Rates will be highher during rush hour and for >people who drive gas-guzzlers instead of >fuel-efficient models. All the revenue will go >toward improving road and rail infrastructure. > >According to Traffic Minister Camiel Eurlings, >the hope is that commuters faced with paying a >hefty tax on their driving will opt to start >carpooling or riding bicycles to work, and may, >in the long term, even move to live closer to >their jobs. "The goal is a different manner of >paying for mobility that is more fair," Eurlings >says. "Not paying more, but paying differently, >with a positive income effect for most households." > >Naturally, the plan is not without its critics. >The environmental group Friends of the Earth >says it will do little to reduce traffic, since >driving, for the most part, will still be >cheaper than using public transport, even on >long trips. And some transport experts argue >that road improvement projects ??? such as >building better links connecting the main >highways that crisscross the country ? would be >more effective at reducing congestion. "It''s >not simply about using cars and roads less, but >about using them better," says Christophe >Nicod??me, head of the European Union Road Federation (ERF). > >Being that this is eco-conscious Holland, >however, there hasn't been a huge outcry from >motorists over the proposal ? everyone agrees >that someething needs to be done to ease the >country's overloaded road network. The >Netherlands may be known overseas for its >cycling culture, but outside the country's city >centers, gridlock is the more dreary reality. >Vehicle use has risen sharply over the years, >but road capacity has yet to catch up ? in part >duee to lack of space. Previous attempts to >reduce traffic ? from offering incentivves to >people who carpool to giving away free >croissants and newspapers on public transport ? >have had little effect. The government estimates >that a typical rush hour has about 270 >kilometers of traffic jams, although the GPS >maker TomTom often records up to 1,000 >kilometers of back-ups during peak hours. > >Holland is certainly not alone with this >problem. Authorities around the world have >experimented for years with measures to deal >with increased congestion, including creating >dedicated lanes for carpoolers, reversing the >flow of traffic on roads during rush hours and >varying speed limits depending on traffic and >weather. Cities such as London, Rome and >Stockholm have started charging drivers a daily >fee to enter "congestion zones" in their >centers. In the U.S., states like Oregon, >California and Massachusetts have mulled levying >highway taxes based on the amount of mileage >people drive. But the Dutch scheme is by far the >most ambitious in the world because it will not >only be implemented nationwide, but it also >involves technology in the solution like never before. > >The plan is being watched closely in countries >like Germany and Belgium, where officials are >also weighing creative policies to slash carbon >emissions. If it succeeds, it could usher in a >wave of "smart" charges on roads across the >continent. If it doesn't, the Netherlands may >have to brace itself for a road rage epidemic. > > > > >-- >Archive: >http://www.livablestreets.com/[ ]/1261584424336 >To unsubscribe send an email with subject >"unsubscribe" to >streetsblognet-discussion@lists.livablestreets.com. >Please contact >streetsblognet-discussion-manager@lists.livablestreets.com >for questions. > > >__._,_.___ > > >"LotsLessCars in Cities" at http://lotslesscars.org >Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. >World Car/Free Days at http://worldcarfreeday.com >To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com >Also check out New Mobility Agenda at >http://newmobility.org >Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org >Or call via Skype to "newmobility' > > > >Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional >Change >settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) >Change settings via email: >Delivery: Digest>Switch delivery to Daily Digest >| >Delivery Format: Fully Featured>Switch to Fully Featured >Visit >Your Group | >Yahoo! Groups >Terms of Use | >Unsubscribe > > >__,_._,___ > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: >270.14.118/2584 - Release Date: 12/24/09 05:02:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091231/fecc10af/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Dec 30 17:19:24 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Dec 30 17:18:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: [BFA-Oz] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every In-Reply-To: <2012945901-1463792638-1262213968@boing.topica.com> References: <467109294-1463792126-1262212953@boing.topica.com> <2012945901-1463792638-1262213968@boing.topica.com> Message-ID: <20091230231827.JRKN1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Graham .... Methinks ours is a bit too simple ... but it will be interesting to see if the fuel subsidy ending in Qld led to less VKT per annum ... or just higher costs of everything ... or if anybody bothered to do the necessary "research" ...! The real benefit of a system like that proposed in the NL is a bit "big-brotherish" ... but it will give much more accurate figures in relation to extremes of individual VKT pa ... and could then lead to much higher fuel taxes with minimum fixed costs of rego, insurance etc ... to reflect actual use rate and risk exposure ... based on "user pays" such that reduced use costs less ... rather than as at present where reduced use arguably subsidises excessive use ...! It also offers an effective way to create a variable rather than fixed 'cordon toll' ... and without all the visible hardware and signs being "necessary" in the urban landscape ... Interesting tho' that it is seen as a reduced congestion strategy ... rather than related more to reduced pollution and CO2 ... but then I guess the tax or user charge could be increased until an appropriate level of congestion is achieved .... ;-) ;-) MY................... At 08:59 AM 31/12/2009, Graham B wrote: >Michael, we already have a simple version of that in Australia. >It's called a fuel tax and the further you travel and the heavier or >less fuel efficient your vehicle, the more you pay. > >And now that Queensland has ended their fuel subsidy to motorists, even >those from the perfect state can contribute! > >Happy New Year, folks > >Graham B > > > > > > > > > > >Some may find the following of interest ... even a "New Year" wish? > > > >Maybe a "Rudd" policy for 2010 .. to help reduce > >CO2 ... one that would be supported by the cycling-opposition leader too??? > > > >MY............. > > > >Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:37:17 +0100 > >>Subject: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut > >>Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven - Time.com > >> > >>Thanks to Christopher Hart for the heads-up > >> > >> > >> 9,1949156,00.html?>artId=1949156?contType=article?chn=sciHealth>http://www.time.com/time/ > >health/article/0,8599,1949156,00.html?artId=1949156?contType=article? > >chn=sciHealth > >> > >> > >>Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven > >> > >> > >> > >>By > >>Leo > >>Cendrowicz Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 > >> > >> > >> > >>A highway in the Netherlands is congested. > >> > >>Traffic jams are infuriating wherever you are, > >>but in the Netherlands, they are the source of > >>particular angst. Not only is the densely > >>populated country home to Europe's most > >>congested metropolitan region -- the area callled > >>the Randstad that incorporates Amsterdam, > >>Rotterdam, Utrecht and The Hague ??" but many > >>Dutch people live below sea level, making them > >>more than a little nervous about carbon > >>emissions, global warming and the possibility > >>that their country could soon be underwater. > >> > >>No wonder then that the Dutch government is > >>trying something revolutionary to reduce the > >>number of cars on the road -- taxing every > >>motoorist who gets behind the wheel based on the > >>distance of their trip and the kind of car they > >>drive. The plan, which was approved by the Dutch > >>cabinet in November and is expected to be > >>implemented in 2012, aims to eventually cut the > >>number of traffic jams in the country in half. > >> > >>Here's how it works: every car owner will be > >>required to purchase a GPS machine that is able > >>to send data tracking the distances of trips to > >>a billing agency. Any motorist caught without > >>the device will be fined. People driving a > >>standard family sedan will be charged 3 euro > >>cents per kilometer in 2012, with the tax going > >>up every year until 2018, when it is expected to > >>top out at an average of 6.7 cents per > >>kilometer. So, for instance, a trip from > >>Amsterdam to Eindhoven and back -- a distance of > >>about 250 kilometers -- w" will cost the driver > >>of a standard sedan about ?7.5 ($10.75) in 2012. > >>Rates will be highher during rush hour and for > >>people who drive gas-guzzlers instead of > >>fuel-efficient models. All the revenue will go > >>toward improving road and rail infrastructure. > >> > >>According to Traffic Minister Camiel Eurlings, > >>the hope is that commuters faced with paying a > >>hefty tax on their driving will opt to start > >>carpooling or riding bicycles to work, and may, > >>in the long term, even move to live closer to > >>their jobs. "The goal is a different manner of > >>paying for mobility that is more fair," Eurlings > >>says. "Not paying more, but paying differently, > >>with a positive income effect for most households." > >> > >>Naturally, the plan is not without its critics. > >>The environmental group Friends of the Earth > >>says it will do little to reduce traffic, since > >>driving, for the most part, will still be > >>cheaper than using public transport, even on > >>long trips. And some transport experts argue > >>that road improvement projects ??" such as > >>building better links connecting the main > >>highways that crisscross the country -- would be > >>more effective at reducing congestion. "It''s > >>not simply about using cars and roads less, but > >>about using them better," says Christophe > >>Nicod??me, head of the European Union Road Federation (ERF). > >> > >>Being that this is eco-conscious Holland, > >>however, there hasn't been a huge outcry from > >>motorists over the proposal -- everyone agrees > >>that someething needs to be done to ease the > >>country's overloaded road network. The > >>Netherlands may be known overseas for its > >>cycling culture, but outside the country's city > >>centers, gridlock is the more dreary reality. > >>Vehicle use has risen sharply over the years, > >>but road capacity has yet to catch up -- in part > >>duee to lack of space. Previous attempts to > >>reduce traffic -- from offering incentivves to > >>people who carpool to giving away free > >>croissants and newspapers on public transport -- > >>have had little effect. The government estimates > >>that a typical rush hour has about 270 > >>kilometers of traffic jams, although the GPS > >>maker TomTom often records up to 1,000 > >>kilometers of back-ups during peak hours. > >> > >>Holland is certainly not alone with this > >>problem. Authorities around the world have > >>experimented for years with measures to deal > >>with increased congestion, including creating > >>dedicated lanes for carpoolers, reversing the > >>flow of traffic on roads during rush hours and > >>varying speed limits depending on traffic and > >>weather. Cities such as London, Rome and > >>Stockholm have started charging drivers a daily > >>fee to enter "congestion zones" in their > >>centers. In the U.S., states like Oregon, > >>California and Massachusetts have mulled levying > >>highway taxes based on the amount of mileage > >>people drive. But the Dutch scheme is by far the > >>most ambitious in the world because it will not > >>only be implemented nationwide, but it also > >>involves technology in the solution like never before. > >> > >>The plan is being watched closely in countries > >>like Germany and Belgium, where officials are > >>also weighing creative policies to slash carbon > >>emissions. If it succeeds, it could usher in a > >>wave of "smart" charges on roads across the > >>continent. If it doesn't, the Netherlands may > >>have to brace itself for a road rage epidemic. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Archive: > >> sblognet/lists/>streetsblognet-discussion/archive/2009/12/1261584424336>http:// > >www.livablestreets.com/[...]/1261584424336 > >>To unsubscribe send an email with subject > >>"unsubscribe" to > >>sts.livab > lestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion@lists.livablestreets.com. > >>Please contact > >>nager@lis > ts.livablestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion- > >manager@lists.livablestreets.com > >>for questions. > >> > >> > >>__._,_.___ > >> > >> > >>"LotsLessCars in Cities" at > http://lotslesscars.org > >>Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. > >>World Car/Free Days at http:// >worldcarfreeday.com > >>To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com > >>Also check out New Mobility Agenda at > >>http://newmobility.org > >>Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org > >>Or call via Skype to "newmobility' > >> > >> > >> > >>Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional > >>j > oin;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaHVjNzdiBF9TAzk3NDc > >2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMx > >NzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyNjE2NDY0ODk->Change > >>settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > >>Change settings via email: > >> bject=Email>>Delivery: Digest>Switch delivery to Daily Digest > >>| > >> com?subject=Change>>Delivery Format: Fully Featured>Switch to Fully Featured > >>essCars;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcmRtcWRiBF9TAzk3 > >NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZ > >AMxNzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjYxNjQ2NDg5>Visit > >>Your Group | > >>Yahoo! Groups > >>Terms of Use | > >> om?>subject=Unsubscribe>Unsubscribe > >> > >> > >>__,_._,___ > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: > >>270.14.118/2584 - Release Date: 12/24/09 05:02:00 > > > > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > >"..but global oil production itself is likely to peak, maybe as early as > >2006. But more conventionally 2010 - 2015." > > "It is also certain that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere > >near the cost of not being ready on time." Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA > >Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 > >see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > > > > Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > > > >BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested in bicycle advocacy at a > >state and national level in Australia. It is an initiative of the > >Bicycle Federation of Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views > >expressed on this list do not necessarily represent those of the BFA, > >and should not be interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. > >To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com > >Queries, complaints and suggestions to > >Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au > > > > > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** >?..but global oil production itself is likely to >peak, maybe as early as 2006. But more conventionally 2010 ? 2015.? > ?It is also certain that the cost of preparing > too early is nowhere near the cost of not being > ready on time.? Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA > Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 >see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > > Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > >BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested >in bicycle advocacy at a state and national >level in Australia. It is an initiative of the >Bicycle Federation of >Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views >expressed on this list do not necessarily >represent those of the BFA, and should not be >interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. >To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com >Queries, complaints and suggestions to >Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au >--^---------------------------------------------------------------- >This email was sent to: michael@yeatesit.biz > >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiA6.aBngBa.bWljaGFl >Or send an email to: bfa-oz-unsubscribe@topica.com > >For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: >http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER >--^---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: >270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 17:27:00 From grahamb at netspace.net.au Wed Dec 30 16:59:06 2009 From: grahamb at netspace.net.au (Graham B) Date: Wed Dec 30 17:40:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: [BFA-Oz] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kil In-Reply-To: <467109294-1463792126-1262212953@boing.topica.com> References: <467109294-1463792126-1262212953@boing.topica.com> Message-ID: <20091230225906.1155397215@mail.netspace.net.au> Michael, we already have a simple version of that in Australia. It's called a fuel tax and the further you travel and the heavier or less fuel efficient your vehicle, the more you pay. And now that Queensland has ended their fuel subsidy to motorists, even those from the perfect state can contribute! Happy New Year, folks Graham B > > >Some may find the following of interest ... even a "New Year" wish? > >Maybe a "Rudd" policy for 2010 .. to help reduce >CO2 ... one that would be supported by the cycling-opposition leader too??? > >MY............. > >Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:37:17 +0100 >>Subject: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut >>Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven - Time.com >> >>Thanks to Christopher Hart for the heads-up >> >> >>artId=1949156?contType=article?chn=sciHealth>http://www.time.com/time/ >health/article/0,8599,1949156,00.html?artId=1949156?contType=article? >chn=sciHealth >> >> >>Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven >> >> >> >>By >>Leo >>Cendrowicz Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 >> >> >> >>A highway in the Netherlands is congested. >> >>Traffic jams are infuriating wherever you are, >>but in the Netherlands, they are the source of >>particular angst. Not only is the densely >>populated country home to Europe's most >>congested metropolitan region -- the area callled >>the Randstad that incorporates Amsterdam, >>Rotterdam, Utrecht and The Hague ??" but many >>Dutch people live below sea level, making them >>more than a little nervous about carbon >>emissions, global warming and the possibility >>that their country could soon be underwater. >> >>No wonder then that the Dutch government is >>trying something revolutionary to reduce the >>number of cars on the road -- taxing every >>motoorist who gets behind the wheel based on the >>distance of their trip and the kind of car they >>drive. The plan, which was approved by the Dutch >>cabinet in November and is expected to be >>implemented in 2012, aims to eventually cut the >>number of traffic jams in the country in half. >> >>Here's how it works: every car owner will be >>required to purchase a GPS machine that is able >>to send data tracking the distances of trips to >>a billing agency. Any motorist caught without >>the device will be fined. People driving a >>standard family sedan will be charged 3 euro >>cents per kilometer in 2012, with the tax going >>up every year until 2018, when it is expected to >>top out at an average of 6.7 cents per >>kilometer. So, for instance, a trip from >>Amsterdam to Eindhoven and back -- a distance of >>about 250 kilometers -- w" will cost the driver >>of a standard sedan about ?7.5 ($10.75) in 2012. >>Rates will be highher during rush hour and for >>people who drive gas-guzzlers instead of >>fuel-efficient models. All the revenue will go >>toward improving road and rail infrastructure. >> >>According to Traffic Minister Camiel Eurlings, >>the hope is that commuters faced with paying a >>hefty tax on their driving will opt to start >>carpooling or riding bicycles to work, and may, >>in the long term, even move to live closer to >>their jobs. "The goal is a different manner of >>paying for mobility that is more fair," Eurlings >>says. "Not paying more, but paying differently, >>with a positive income effect for most households." >> >>Naturally, the plan is not without its critics. >>The environmental group Friends of the Earth >>says it will do little to reduce traffic, since >>driving, for the most part, will still be >>cheaper than using public transport, even on >>long trips. And some transport experts argue >>that road improvement projects ??" such as >>building better links connecting the main >>highways that crisscross the country -- would be >>more effective at reducing congestion. "It''s >>not simply about using cars and roads less, but >>about using them better," says Christophe >>Nicod??me, head of the European Union Road Federation (ERF). >> >>Being that this is eco-conscious Holland, >>however, there hasn't been a huge outcry from >>motorists over the proposal -- everyone agrees >>that someething needs to be done to ease the >>country's overloaded road network. The >>Netherlands may be known overseas for its >>cycling culture, but outside the country's city >>centers, gridlock is the more dreary reality. >>Vehicle use has risen sharply over the years, >>but road capacity has yet to catch up -- in part >>duee to lack of space. Previous attempts to >>reduce traffic -- from offering incentivves to >>people who carpool to giving away free >>croissants and newspapers on public transport -- >>have had little effect. The government estimates >>that a typical rush hour has about 270 >>kilometers of traffic jams, although the GPS >>maker TomTom often records up to 1,000 >>kilometers of back-ups during peak hours. >> >>Holland is certainly not alone with this >>problem. Authorities around the world have >>experimented for years with measures to deal >>with increased congestion, including creating >>dedicated lanes for carpoolers, reversing the >>flow of traffic on roads during rush hours and >>varying speed limits depending on traffic and >>weather. Cities such as London, Rome and >>Stockholm have started charging drivers a daily >>fee to enter "congestion zones" in their >>centers. In the U.S., states like Oregon, >>California and Massachusetts have mulled levying >>highway taxes based on the amount of mileage >>people drive. But the Dutch scheme is by far the >>most ambitious in the world because it will not >>only be implemented nationwide, but it also >>involves technology in the solution like never before. >> >>The plan is being watched closely in countries >>like Germany and Belgium, where officials are >>also weighing creative policies to slash carbon >>emissions. If it succeeds, it could usher in a >>wave of "smart" charges on roads across the >>continent. If it doesn't, the Netherlands may >>have to brace itself for a road rage epidemic. >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Archive: >>streetsblognet-discussion/archive/2009/12/1261584424336>http:// >www.livablestreets.com/[...]/1261584424336 >>To unsubscribe send an email with subject >>"unsubscribe" to >>sts.livablestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion@lists.livablestreets.com. >>Please contact >>nager@lists.livablestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion- >manager@lists.livablestreets.com >>for questions. >> >> >>__._,_.___ >> >> >>"LotsLessCars in Cities" at http://lotslesscars.org >>Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. >>World Car/Free Days at http:// worldcarfreeday.com >>To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com >>Also check out New Mobility Agenda at >>http://newmobility.org >>Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org >>Or call via Skype to "newmobility' >> >> >> >>Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional >>join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaHVjNzdiBF9TAzk3NDc >2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMx >NzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyNjE2NDY0ODk->Change >>settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) >>Change settings via email: >>>Delivery: Digest>Switch delivery to Daily Digest >>| >>>Delivery Format: Fully Featured>Switch to Fully Featured >>essCars;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcmRtcWRiBF9TAzk3 >NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZ >AMxNzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjYxNjQ2NDg5>Visit >>Your Group | >>Yahoo! Groups >>Terms of Use | >>subject=Unsubscribe>Unsubscribe >> >> >>__,_._,___ >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: >>270.14.118/2584 - Release Date: 12/24/09 05:02:00 > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** >"..but global oil production itself is likely to peak, maybe as early as >2006. But more conventionally 2010 - 2015." > "It is also certain that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere >near the cost of not being ready on time." Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA >Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 >see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au >??? ********* BFA-Oz *********** > > Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > >BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested in bicycle advocacy at a >state and national level in Australia. It is an initiative of the >Bicycle Federation of Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views >expressed on this list do not necessarily represent those of the BFA, >and should not be interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. >To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com >Queries, complaints and suggestions to >Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au >--^---------------------------------------------------------------- >This email was sent to: grahamb@netspace.net.au > >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiA6.aVztVz.Z3JhaGFt >Or send an email to: bfa-oz-unsubscribe@topica.com > >For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: >http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER >--^---------------------------------------------------------------- > > From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 30 17:45:22 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Dec 30 17:45:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re: [BFA-Oz] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every In-Reply-To: <20091230231827.JRKN1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <467109294-1463792126-1262212953@boing.topica.com> <2012945901-1463792638-1262213968@boing.topica.com> <20091230231827.JRKN1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <897157.12654.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have once tried to convince my former (Mount Ommaney) state member the merit of a congestion charge. She did not like and know that her constituent won't like it either. I think a better way to go would be to have lower registration for people who drivers lower the average mileage. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Michael Yeates To: grahamb@netspace.net.au Cc: bfa-oz list ; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thu, 31 December, 2009 9:19:24 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Re: [BFA-Oz] Fwd: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Thanks Graham .... Methinks ours is a bit too simple ... but it will be interesting to see if the fuel subsidy ending in Qld led to less VKT per annum ... or just higher costs of everything ... or if anybody bothered to do the necessary "research" ...! The real benefit of a system like that proposed in the NL is a bit "big-brotherish" ... but it will give much more accurate figures in relation to extremes of individual VKT pa ... and could then lead to much higher fuel taxes with minimum fixed costs of rego, insurance etc ... to reflect actual use rate and risk exposure ... based on "user pays" such that reduced use costs less ... rather than as at present where reduced use arguably subsidises excessive use ...! It also offers an effective way to create a variable rather than fixed 'cordon toll' ... and without all the visible hardware and signs being "necessary" in the urban landscape ... Interesting tho' that it is seen as a reduced congestion strategy ... rather than related more to reduced pollution and CO2 ... but then I guess the tax or user charge could be increased until an appropriate level of congestion is achieved .... ;-) ;-) MY................... At 08:59 AM 31/12/2009, Graham B wrote: > Michael, we already have a simple version of that in Australia. > It's called a fuel tax and the further you travel and the heavier or > less fuel efficient your vehicle, the more you pay. > > And now that Queensland has ended their fuel subsidy to motorists, even > those from the perfect state can contribute! > > Happy New Year, folks > > Graham B > > > > > > > > > > >Some may find the following of interest ... even a "New Year" wish? > > > >Maybe a "Rudd" policy for 2010 .. to help reduce > >CO2 ... one that would be supported by the cycling-opposition leader too??? > > > >MY............. > > > >Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:37:17 +0100 > >>Subject: [LotsLessCars] Holland's Plan to Cut > >>Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven - Time.com > >> > >>Thanks to Christopher Hart for the heads-up > >> > >> > >>artId=1949156?contType=article?chn=sciHealth>http://www.time.com/time/ > >health/article/0,8599,1949156,00.html?artId=1949156?contType=article? > >chn=sciHealth > >> > >> > >>Holland's Plan to Cut Traffic: A Tax on Every Kilometer Driven > >> > >> > >> > >>By > >>Leo > >>Cendrowicz Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 > >> > >> > >> > >>A highway in the Netherlands is congested. > >> > >>Traffic jams are infuriating wherever you are, > >>but in the Netherlands, they are the source of > >>particular angst. Not only is the densely > >>populated country home to Europe's most > >>congested metropolitan region -- the area callled > >>the Randstad that incorporates Amsterdam, > >>Rotterdam, Utrecht and The Hague ??" but many > >>Dutch people live below sea level, making them > >>more than a little nervous about carbon > >>emissions, global warming and the possibility > >>that their country could soon be underwater. > >> > >>No wonder then that the Dutch government is > >>trying something revolutionary to reduce the > >>number of cars on the road -- taxing every > >>motoorist who gets behind the wheel based on the > >>distance of their trip and the kind of car they > >>drive. The plan, which was approved by the Dutch > >>cabinet in November and is expected to be > >>implemented in 2012, aims to eventually cut the > >>number of traffic jams in the country in half. > >> > >>Here's how it works: every car owner will be > >>required to purchase a GPS machine that is able > >>to send data tracking the distances of trips to > >>a billing agency. Any motorist caught without > >>the device will be fined. People driving a > >>standard family sedan will be charged 3 euro > >>cents per kilometer in 2012, with the tax going > >>up every year until 2018, when it is expected to > >>top out at an average of 6.7 cents per > >>kilometer. So, for instance, a trip from > >>Amsterdam to Eindhoven and back -- a distance of > >>about 250 kilometers -- w" will cost the driver > >>of a standard sedan about ?7.5 ($10.75) in 2012. > >>Rates will be highher during rush hour and for > >>people who drive gas-guzzlers instead of > >>fuel-efficient models. All the revenue will go > >>toward improving road and rail infrastructure. > >> > >>According to Traffic Minister Camiel Eurlings, > >>the hope is that commuters faced with paying a > >>hefty tax on their driving will opt to start > >>carpooling or riding bicycles to work, and may, > >>in the long term, even move to live closer to > >>their jobs. "The goal is a different manner of > >>paying for mobility that is more fair," Eurlings > >>says. "Not paying more, but paying differently, > >>with a positive income effect for most households." > >> > >>Naturally, the plan is not without its critics. > >>The environmental group Friends of the Earth > >>says it will do little to reduce traffic, since > >>driving, for the most part, will still be > >>cheaper than using public transport, even on > >>long trips. And some transport experts argue > >>that road improvement projects ??" such as > >>building better links connecting the main > >>highways that crisscross the country -- would be > >>more effective at reducing congestion. "It''s > >>not simply about using cars and roads less, but > >>about using them better," says Christophe > >>Nicod??me, head of the European Union Road Federation (ERF). > >> > >>Being that this is eco-conscious Holland, > >>however, there hasn't been a huge outcry from > >>motorists over the proposal -- everyone agrees > >>that someething needs to be done to ease the > >>country's overloaded road network. The > >>Netherlands may be known overseas for its > >>cycling culture, but outside the country's city > >>centers, gridlock is the more dreary reality. > >>Vehicle use has risen sharply over the years, > >>but road capacity has yet to catch up -- in part > >>duee to lack of space. Previous attempts to > >>reduce traffic -- from offering incentivves to > >>people who carpool to giving away free > >>croissants and newspapers on public transport -- > >>have had little effect. The government estimates > >>that a typical rush hour has about 270 > >>kilometers of traffic jams, although the GPS > >>maker TomTom often records up to 1,000 > >>kilometers of back-ups during peak hours. > >> > >>Holland is certainly not alone with this > >>problem. Authorities around the world have > >>experimented for years with measures to deal > >>with increased congestion, including creating > >>dedicated lanes for carpoolers, reversing the > >>flow of traffic on roads during rush hours and > >>varying speed limits depending on traffic and > >>weather. Cities such as London, Rome and > >>Stockholm have started charging drivers a daily > >>fee to enter "congestion zones" in their > >>centers. In the U.S., states like Oregon, > >>California and Massachusetts have mulled levying > >>highway taxes based on the amount of mileage > >>people drive. But the Dutch scheme is by far the > >>most ambitious in the world because it will not > >>only be implemented nationwide, but it also > >>involves technology in the solution like never before. > >> > >>The plan is being watched closely in countries > >>like Germany and Belgium, where officials are > >>also weighing creative policies to slash carbon > >>emissions. If it succeeds, it could usher in a > >>wave of "smart" charges on roads across the > >>continent. If it doesn't, the Netherlands may > >>have to brace itself for a road rage epidemic. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Archive: > >>streetsblognet-discussion/archive/2009/12/1261584424336>http:// > >www.livablestreets.com/[...]/1261584424336 > >>To unsubscribe send an email with subject > >>"unsubscribe" to > >>sts.livab lestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion@lists.livablestreets.com. > >>Please contact > >>nager@lis ts.livablestreets.com>streetsblognet-discussion- > >manager@lists.livablestreets.com > >>for questions. > >> > >> > >>__._,_.___ > >> > >> > >>"LotsLessCars in Cities" at http://lotslesscars.org > >>Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel. > >>World Car/Free Days at http:// > worldcarfreeday.com > >>To leave list: LotsLessCars-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>To post messages: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com > >>Also check out New Mobility Agenda at > >>http://newmobility.org > >>Need some help? Send an email to Help@newmobility.org > >>Or call via Skype to "newmobility' > >> > >> > >> > >>Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional > >>j oin;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaHVjNzdiBF9TAzk3NDc > >2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMx > >NzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyNjE2NDY0ODk->Change > >>settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) > >>Change settings via email: > >>>Delivery: Digest>Switch delivery to Daily Digest > >>| > >>>Delivery Format: Fully Featured>Switch to Fully Featured > >>essCars;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcmRtcWRiBF9TAzk3 > >NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwMjU5MTAEZ3Jwc3BJZ > >AMxNzA1NzI0ODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjYxNjQ2NDg5>Visit > >>Your Group | > >>Yahoo! Groups > >>Terms of Use | > >>subject=Unsubscribe>Unsubscribe > >> > >> > >>__,_._,___ > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: > >>270.14.118/2584 - Release Date: 12/24/09 05:02:00 > > > > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > >"..but global oil production itself is likely to peak, maybe as early as > >2006. But more conventionally 2010 - 2015." > > "It is also certain that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere > >near the cost of not being ready on time." Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA > >Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 > >see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > > > > Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > > > >BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested in bicycle advocacy at a > >state and national level in Australia. It is an initiative of the > >Bicycle Federation of Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views > >expressed on this list do not necessarily represent those of the BFA, > >and should not be interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. > >To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com > >Queries, complaints and suggestions to > >Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au > > > > > > > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > ?..but global oil production itself is likely to peak, maybe as early as 2006. But more conventionally 2010 ? 2015.? > ?It is also certain that the cost of preparing too early is nowhere near the cost of not being ready on time.? Hon. Alannah MacTiernan, WA Minister for Planning and Infrastructure, 2004 > see www.ASPO-Australia.org.au > ********* BFA-Oz *********** > > Sorry about the ads. They are forced upon us. > > BFA-Oz is a mailing list for people interested in bicycle advocacy at a state and national level in Australia. It is an initiative of the Bicycle Federation of Australia (www.bfa.asn.au). However, views expressed on this list do not necessarily represent those of the BFA, and should not be interpreted as being approved or condoned by the BFA. > To subscribe send e-mail from that address to bfa-oz-subscribe@topica.com > Queries, complaints and suggestions to > Bruce.Robinson[Delete-this].Westnet.com.au > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- > This email was sent to: michael@yeatesit.biz > > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiA6.aBngBa.bWljaGFl > Or send an email to: bfa-oz-unsubscribe@topica.com > > For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit: > http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 17:27:00 _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20091230/934d2f56/attachment-0001.htm From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 30 21:18:22 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Wed Dec 30 21:21:48 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Km in 2009 Message-ID: <03EDC165-48B7-47B7-AF7E-DEE9388EBF69@ozemail.com.au> 6847 km logged on my Garmin bike computer in 2009. That is only 130km per week. I did less than this in my car. Hope I have a few more km clocked up by this time next year. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Dec 30 22:00:43 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Dec 30 22:00:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: A happy new year Message-ID: <20091231035946.SVUO1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> A Happy New Year message ... from one of Australia's most experienced and knowledgeable cycling/urban advocates ... Would Mr Rudd and the "new" cycling opposition leader agree to ANY of this if it meant upsetting the motorists and the road and road-related lobbies? BTW the same myth applies in Brisbane namely that we can't have good public transport and must therefore have all the road projects because we live in a low density city ... that is why billions are being spent on roads with only millions spent or mis-spent on buses and footpaths (many of which are called "shared bikeways" but are nothing more than footpaths where pedestrians have priority). MY.................... >Subject: A happy new year >Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:36:57 +1100 > >Hi all, > >A happy new year ... > >Alan Parker >12 Webster Street >Sorrento >Victoria 3943 >Australia >alanpar@labyrinth.net.au >Tel 613 5984 3578 > >Website http://alanparker-pest.org/ >I will be campaigning in the new year along the lines of my letter in >The Age responding and the PS and PSS as below ... > >Transport planner Paul Mees (Age 23.11.09) tells us that low density >urban sprawl is a delusion because the old Melbourne Statistical >Division data included both national parks and farmland. The ABS urban >area of Melbourne today is nearly 16 people per hectare, not less >than five as quoted by Premier Steve Bracks in 2005 Paul Mees has >now provided us with new ABS data and tells us that Melbourne is a >medium density city. > >The actual urban density was also estimated in 1974, by this writer, >by the simple method of subtracting map grid squares for national >parks and farmland as shown in the Melways Directory after marking >the ABS statistical boundary areas. A tedious task that Melbourne's >planners have not done till Mees work. ( Letter Age 4-11-09) > >In medium density cities access to stations can be greatly increased >by encouraging cycling. Riding a bicycle uses the 'mechanical >advantage' of pedalling over walking to go at least 3.5 times as far >for the same physical effort. Cycling rather than walking increases >the number of homes with access to stations by around a factor of 10. >This already exists In Dutch, Danish and Swedish cities where far >more bicycles are stored at at local stations and bicycle theft is >not the serious problem It is here. Cycling also makes cross >suburban travel much easier. > >Modal interchanges and rail stations need to become a highly visible >focal point of surrounding bike networks, and land use development. >Integration between alternative transport modes will thus assist >travel patterns that do not use private cars for many , but not all >trips. As petrol prices will inevitably double and then triple, >outer suburban households are going to need bicycle networks and >shared car services that connect with new stations and express buses. > >PS > >The(se) New Vic Roads Road rules are an absolute disaster.Especially for >elderly cyclists like me who cannot walk very far (73yo) with arthritis >in legs and weak weak heart who rides on bikes lanes, quiet >residential streets and on the footpaths of along busy main roads. I >am mindfull of the needs of pedestrians and travel slowly except in >the kerb lane on main roads without much traffic. I am now banned >from riding my bike where I now go, which is real problem with my bad >legs and artificial hips. These laws are a serious ban on my limited >mobility and in addition to that I am banned from folding my folding >on the trains bike because. They now have to be put in bag, which is >not normally sold with most folding bikes bike unless they cost over >$1,500. Again this was agreed to by people representing cyclists in >consultation with Connex. > >There over a million people(elderly or injured) with problems walking >in Australia who will be banned from riding bikes if these new laws go >national and the likes of Scully and the NSW RTA would certainly >embrace them. > >PSS. > >In the Capital cities there far more more kilometres of quiet local >roads than main roads with heavy traffic. Cyclists have the right to >use all roads except freeways because the bicycle has been a vehicle >is a vehicle in traffic law. There is an urgent need to plan and >create a bikeway networks to be of a much finer mesh and use thousands >more residential streets with a 30 km speed limit. In the inner >suburbs today there is only a partial network of bikeways that is far >too coarse, with too many breaks in the network and too few shortcuts >to encourage bicycle use. For example in Melbourne, after 15 years >development, the so-called arterial bikeway network was only 35% >complete in 2009 and not keeping up with urban growth. In Sydney >there is even less progress. And the greatest potential potential to >make cycling safer is by creativel planning exploit the quiet >residential street system and renovate it. > >In Melbourne a complete bikeway network needs around 8,000 km of >routes. The mesh of the bike way network would be 500m x 500m in the >inner areas and 750m x 750m in the outer areas, or the rectangular >equivalent of these sizes. This would also need far more signalised >crossings and refuges across main roads. All this would provide lots >more short cuts for cyclists. Main roads with shared footways >alongside them need to be linked to local streets and off-road shared >footways.. in general more access over and under freeways, railway >lines, rivers and other barriers to travel is needed. > >Most one way streets for cars should be two way for bicycles, main >roads with bikelanes and should have a maximum speed limit of 50 kph. >The introduction of a 50 kph limit on local roads in January 2002 in >Victoria and the reduction of the legal leeway given to violators to 3 >kph have made these roads safer for cycling and walking. It makes >sense to use them to bypass sections of dangerous main roads. In the >longer term a 30 km per limit on all residential streets is required >as has been implemented in the Netherlands. It is also necessary to >develop existing areas and new areas that avoid no-exit cul-de-sacs, >and redevelop them to allow for pedestrian and cyclist shortcuts. >Above all dump the myth that Melbourne is a low density city. > >Bye alan From akayani at aapt.net.au Wed Dec 30 22:33:54 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Wed Dec 30 22:34:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: A happy new year In-Reply-To: <20091231035946.SVUO1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20091231035946.SVUO1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <59A2FEA618EB471AA1048251CA929BEA@maud> "shared bikeways" -- They are share by virtue of the fact they are hardly used by anyone. I'd love to see a comparison of traffic ratios on the Story Bridge today compared to when it was built. I'm sure we would be shocked. Yani -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Thursday, 31 December 2009 2:01 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: A happy new year A Happy New Year message ... from one of Australia's most experienced and knowledgeable cycling/urban advocates ... Would Mr Rudd and the "new" cycling opposition leader agree to ANY of this if it meant upsetting the motorists and the road and road-related lobbies? BTW the same myth applies in Brisbane namely that we can't have good public transport and must therefore have all the road projects because we live in a low density city ... that is why billions are being spent on roads with only millions spent or mis-spent on buses and footpaths (many of which are called "shared bikeways" but are nothing more than footpaths where pedestrians have priority). MY.................... From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Dec 30 23:12:31 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Dec 30 23:11:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: A happy new year In-Reply-To: <59A2FEA618EB471AA1048251CA929BEA@maud> References: <20091231035946.SVUO1743.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <59A2FEA618EB471AA1048251CA929BEA@maud> Message-ID: <20091231051134.VEXW24930.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> As with Melbourne, indeed worse than Melbourne, there are virtually no bike lanes in Brisbane and very little effort at providing continuity ... so not surprisingly, one reason the Story Bridge doesn't have a lot of cyclists using it is ... the lack of connectivity at both ends ... same applies to the two "new" bike parking secure lockups ... how exactly do you get to them ... on shared footpaths ... or nothing at all? It is all shown on the "bikeway" maps ...! And when did Deputy Mayor Quirk say the currently planned "connected" cycling network would be completed? 2026 wasn't it? Or was it earlier? And how much is now complete? And where? MY................ At 02:33 PM 31/12/2009, Yani wrote: >"shared bikeways" -- They are share by virtue of the fact they are hardly >used by anyone. I'd love to see a comparison of traffic ratios on the Story >Bridge today compared to when it was built. I'm sure we would be shocked. > >Yani > >-----Original Message----- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] >On Behalf Of Michael Yeates >Sent: Thursday, 31 December 2009 2:01 PM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: A happy new year > >A Happy New Year message ... from one of Australia's most experienced >and knowledgeable cycling/urban advocates ... > >Would Mr Rudd and the "new" cycling opposition leader agree to ANY of >this if it meant upsetting the motorists and the road and road-related >lobbies? > >BTW the same myth applies in Brisbane namely that we can't have good >public transport and must therefore have all the road projects >because we live in a low density city ... that is why billions are >being spent on roads with only millions spent or mis-spent on buses >and footpaths (many of which are called "shared bikeways" but are >nothing more than footpaths where pedestrians have priority). > >MY.................... > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: >12/30/09 17:27:00