From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 02:26:18 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Sun Aug 2 02:57:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Things that make you go hmmmm..... Message-ID: With not even the police willing to keep pedestrians off the Western Freeway Bikeway, I think MR is rubbing salt into the wound with their latest faux pas; they placed 'Pedestrians Watch Your Step' signs on the bikeway adjacent to some trench works off the side. Further in..... Miskin St now has a colourful crossing point for cyclists to and from the Western Freeway bikeway and a slightly wider refuge. I don't know what to make of the thin green line through the bus way yet as it is still unfinished but notably the dog leg at the Miskin end looks uninviting and I think many cyclists will continue straight across Miskin St from the green area. A little further in, Sylvan Rd got a bit of a makeover and they addressed some of the cyclists' concerns. They say the symbols will all be redone soon as part of it. Yet to see if they fix that concrete spoon drain you ride over near the rail overpass, it was mentioned. Not happy about how they patch the failed sections and created the join right bang in the middle of the bike lane so that if there is any subsidence or degradation, it creates an in-line lip right where you ride, which is bad news for cyclists. A few of the very ancient service covers in the bike lane are not likely to get replaced with more bicycle friendly ones, but it was mentioned. And now a little more of a dig at the Bicentennial upgrade: Is it just me, or does anyone else see that the design of the retaining wall using jagged sharp split face blocks presents a risk for cyclists riding near to the left of the track? Not only is it a knuckle and pinky grater but more seriously it would be a nasty place for the side of a kid's face to land if he or she struck the wall. It would seem that some sort of aesthetic has triumphed over common sense bicycle friendly design. Surely a smooth wall would make more safety sense? That split face detail is horrendous for graffiti removal too. Do these designs get reviewed to ensure they are fit for purpose? Does BQ get consulted before the design is given the okay to ensure someone has taken the cyclist perspective on it? Or is that too much to expect? http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Rough_Wall_Feature.JPG k _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090802/38dc76a8/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Sun Aug 2 04:12:29 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Sun Aug 2 04:27:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Things that make you go hmmmm..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5F44C8-48C0-467B-9AD8-9D0F305C6E2E@bigpond.com> Good point about the rough wall but I'm not that worried about it. Even better point about the graffiti issue. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they kept with their kooky philosophy that manifests itself along the rest of that route and made the peds and cyclists do a crossover so that the peds are near the wall and the cyclists are near the water. I was working up the mountain on Saturday so I rode across Miskin as the workers were setting up. It wasn't obvious what they were up to but it soon became apparent as I drove up and down during the day. Seems like another big and questionable hole dug into the BCC cycling budget. As for the green lane, I reckon it might stay that way. By not making it official, they can avoid any liability if a bus driver squashes a cyclist. Or am I just a cynic? Not really sure what was going on along Sylvan Rd. All I know is that I couldn't drive through there during the day and on my way home there were lots of new bitumen patches in the cycle lane along with their attendant bits of loose hotmix that got stuck in my mudguards. I won't be rostered to work on the hill for another week but I just know that those patches will have subsided by an inch or two by then and won't be fixed for a month or two after. Hmmmmmmm. Has anybody noticed the roadside memorial that appeared recently on Sir Samuel Griffith Drive? I think it's nice. There's a photo here: http://maps.google.com/?t=p&z=15&ll=-27.46879768371582,152.9702911376953&q=http://api.motionxlive.com/motionx-remote/api/gps/host/b5da1b01-b51c-4b86-9cd9-584ad6e8f06d Mick On 02/08/2009, at 5:26 PM, kim wrote: > With not even the police willing to keep pedestrians off the Western > Freeway Bikeway, I think MR is rubbing salt into the wound with their > latest faux pas; they placed 'Pedestrians Watch Your Step' signs on > the > bikeway adjacent to some trench works off the side. > > Further in..... Miskin St now has a colourful crossing point for > cyclists to and from the Western Freeway bikeway and a slightly wider > refuge. I don't know what to make of the thin green line through the > bus > way yet as it is still unfinished but notably the dog leg at the > Miskin > end looks uninviting and I think many cyclists will continue straight > across Miskin St from the green area. > > A little further in, Sylvan Rd got a bit of a makeover and they > addressed some of the cyclists' concerns. They say the symbols will > all > be redone soon as part of it. Yet to see if they fix that concrete > spoon > drain you ride over near the rail overpass, it was mentioned. Not > happy > about how they patch the failed sections and created the join right > bang > in the middle of the bike lane so that if there is any subsidence or > degradation, it creates an in-line lip right where you ride, which is > bad news for cyclists. A few of the very ancient service covers in the > bike lane are not likely to get replaced with more bicycle friendly > ones, but it was mentioned. > > And now a little more of a dig at the Bicentennial upgrade: Is it just > me, or does anyone else see that the design of the retaining wall > using > jagged sharp split face blocks presents a risk for cyclists riding > near > to the left of the track? Not only is it a knuckle and pinky grater > but > more seriously it would be a nasty place for the side of a kid's > face to > land if he or she struck the wall. It would seem that some sort of > aesthetic has triumphed over common sense bicycle friendly design. > Surely a smooth wall would make more safety sense? That split face > detail is horrendous for graffiti removal too. Do these designs get > reviewed to ensure they are fit for purpose? Does BQ get consulted > before the design is given the okay to ensure someone has taken the > cyclist perspective on it? Or is that too much to expect? > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Rough_Wall_Feature.JPG > > k > > > > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for > Hotmail?. Try it now. _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090802/27645ea9/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Aug 10 19:44:58 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Aug 10 19:45:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Report: Pedestrian and cyclist crashes in the Adelaide Metropolitan Area Message-ID: http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/publications/list/?id=1074 R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090811/0ec81988/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Aug 12 20:51:30 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Aug 12 20:51:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Grey St warning Message-ID: If you are thinking of cycling along Grey St near QPAC find another route. The contractors constructing the new BCEC have reduced the lane width to virtually a car width between crash barriers. This WAS a cycle route. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090813/8746595d/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Aug 12 22:50:54 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Aug 12 22:51:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong Pedestrian Cycle Crossing official opening Message-ID: <20090813133855.Q79534@singha.lister.id.au> As you might have seen elsewhere, the Toowong ped/bike bridge is (finally) getting an official opening this Sunday, between 8:00am and 9:30am. http://www.cbdbug.org.au/corroToowongBridgeOpening20090807.pdf Should make Mich happy? :) Cheers, Ian From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Thu Aug 13 00:37:38 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Thu Aug 13 00:37:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong Pedestrian Cycle Crossing official opening Message-ID: Ah, that might explain why I have not seen too many folk using it yet! It's not officially open yet. :( How's all the approach infrastructure going? Is it ready to cope with all the additional traffic after the sausage sizzle? That green zone (well it looks green during the day anyway) thru the busway completed and signed yet? Have they got a traffic calm area designated across Dean St like on Miskin Rd in time for the grand opening? When I noticed that the small white bike symbols on the white concrete had worn away just a few months after it was completed, I put it to MR that they did a shonky job and just sprayed a bit of acrylic or aerosol paint there. MR told me that it was unfortunate but it rained just after they were done and they got washed away (suggesting it was acrylic at least). Pretty bloody amazing as it did not rain a drop for two weeks before it was completed and if they had used the correct long life two part paint it would have been dry in 10 minutes and unaffected by rain or water. Methinks they lie. Also when I questioned them on the needs for a small triangle garden mid track, they filled it in with green concrete. When I questioned the merits of having a 500mm strip of grass between the tracks they told me it was a standard design 'on all MR bikeways' and would be no trouble maintaining. I pointed out that their Fig Tree Pocket to the river section was the only other one I knew of and that it had had its grass section replaced with artificial grass for that very reason. Methinks the left hand don't know what the right hand is doing in MR. k Ian Lister wrote: > As you might have seen elsewhere, the Toowong ped/bike bridge is > (finally) getting an official opening this Sunday, between 8:00am and > 9:30am. > > http://www.cbdbug.org.au/corroToowongBridgeOpening20090807.pdf > > Should make Mich happy? :) > > Cheers, > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > _________________________________________________________________ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090812/17f3db50/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Thu Aug 13 01:01:28 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Thu Aug 13 01:02:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Pedalestrians Message-ID: That's not really a pro-cycling way to view things tho, when you refer to 'not riding on the crossing is a loophole which could be used' I believe it is doing exactly what is required by the road rules, it's not about finding a 'loophole' and that really the road rules don't want a cyclists to ride across the road anywhere within cooee of a pedestrian crossing. If that was intended then the road rules would clearly state an intended clearance distance for crossing as they do for pedestrians and parking cars etc in relation to these crossings. I will often do the same route as you when I am outbound and turn onto Moggill Rd and then join back on the bikeway via Witton Rd. I go to the right of the crossing on the slipway tho as it lands you in a better place when you enter the exit ramp from the freeway. Going on the left arguably puts you too close to the contra flow traffic on Moggill albeit clear of the pedestrian zone. If there is any 'loophole' or 'grey' area at all, it might relate to riding over the traffic islands themselves but I have never dwelt on that one. k Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au wrote: :-) FYI - the police were back a few weeks after bike week. When I went past they had not pulled anyone over. I share your view - . I commute Kenmore/CBD. Outbound - off the bikeway over the slipway and riding to the left of the crossing, up the high side of the traffic island. Then straight onto the other slipway to position myself with the cars at the lights to turn onto Moggill Rd and ride to Kenmore. On the way to the CBD, I'm on Moggill Rd and only turn left after the slipways and not use the crossings - so no loopholes required there. I do have a honker horn and lights fitted ;-) Regards Ken Yeo ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ kim Sent by: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au 22/07/2009 06:23 PM Please consider the environment before printing this email To BikeQld cc Subject Re: [bikeqld] Pedalestrians You are probably right there Ken, it was just a bit of stream-of-conscience type rant I hastily posted this morn as I was rushing off to a meeting. Not too sure if there is a lot of worth in it until the crossing options there get visited by MR. Also not too sure if the police that did the last blitz ( I spoke to them after it) would share my, or even QT's view on the legality of said strategy. Might just have to test that one out. Police that I spoke to said they were not really concerned about pedestrians in this case, it was about the danger to motorists using the slipways, so I guess there was some source of complaint there to spark that off. There were a lot of ramblings coming from the State Member's office and I don't know if the blitz started from there via a complaint to his office. Hmm, a video; knowing my luck it might land me in gaol for promoting some rebellious pedalestrian manoeuvre that the local police don't like. kim Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au wrote: WOW! that was hard to follow! Looks like an opporunity to create a youtube video just to explain your email. I've got a dodgy camera.... --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 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If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090812/e6df8dc9/attachment-0001.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Aug 13 18:42:58 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Aug 13 18:43:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Grey St warning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0830BBAA91@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Just take the lane. Still is a cycle route. P From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Thursday, 13 August 2009 11:52 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Grey St warning If you are thinking of cycling along Grey St near QPAC find another route. The contractors constructing the new BCEC have reduced the lane width to virtually a car width between crash barriers. This WAS a cycle route. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090814/0388ed42/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Aug 18 17:21:47 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Aug 18 17:22:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Accessing Newstead by bicycle Message-ID: <773762.27407.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Some of you would know that Energex head office is moving to Newstead next year. Many of the public transport options originally planned are not going to happen. No citycat. No long buses. To add to the insult, there are gapping holes in the cycling network. E.g. the riverside cycle path is closed just before the Storey bridge but yet the council bike maps still shows that it a bike path to New Farm and beyond??? Coming from the North is worse, after breakfast creek, it is so close but yet there are nothing that will take you safely across Bowen Hills. Also the end of trip facilities will only support 200 staff out of 3000. Aren't there portable showers facilities? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090818/4173bb29/attachment.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Tue Aug 18 21:47:00 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Mick Fanning) Date: Tue Aug 18 21:47:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong roundabout Message-ID: <8BEE4516-8B04-4786-A351-A22DAAB6DE8B@bigpond.com> What is going on at the Toowong cemetary roundabout? That lovely new red crossing they put in a couple of weeks ago has been dug up and replaced with asphalt. I wonder if the cycling budget paid for that? Mick Fanning From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Aug 18 23:32:05 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Aug 18 23:32:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Toowong roundabout In-Reply-To: <8BEE4516-8B04-4786-A351-A22DAAB6DE8B@bigpond.com> References: <8BEE4516-8B04-4786-A351-A22DAAB6DE8B@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <20090819043144.PHEZ6272.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi Mick ... Perhaps somebody (Cr Prentice perhaps?) has been advised eg by the bus drivers that the crossing is/was in the wrong place? So having spent all the money on the related work, probably best politically to simply remove the red coloured crossing identification? It is in the wrong place for a number of reasons ... which would have been obvious to anyone with "planning" experience. These include ... 1. buses leaving the "Bus Lane" and which have to turn left (they are not allowed to turn right here) then have to cross the bike crossing but it surely must be known to the BCC "designers" that bus drivers (as with truck drivers) have very poor visibility down the left side ... especially of cyclists ... and in this case made worse if the bus has started to change direction and is beginning to turn left. 2. the "bus lane" and "green lane" now appears to require cyclists to cross in front of the buses several times yet this was not necessary ... so why was it done? 3. there is a high speed "Bus Lane" which could so easily be a "shared zone" with speed limit of say 10km/h instead of the "Bus Lane" ... but this would still 'require' cyclists cross over the bus path and in addition to that, also across other traffic at the Dean Street end. It seems as if there was some particular reason for not relocating the refuge and northern kerb ramp on Miskin ... but given it would move the crossing further from that really dangerous two into one lane merge on the exit from the roundabout, and that would be a major benefit, I would be interested to hear what it is. If the refuge had been moved up Miskin so the crossing "fed" straight across Miskin onto the "green bike lane" and if necessary, the "green lane" was wider and two way then there would be "wins" all round ... specifically for cyclists, peds, and bus drivers but also for all users of Miskin Street ... rather than as "designed" (?) at present. Buses would not be turning across the bike crossing, cyclists would not be crossing the bus paths several times and the whole facility would have cost heaps less ... Alternatively, and using the "yellow BIKE" symbols instead of the "Bus Lane", surely the buses could be required to travel that short distance at say, 10km/h ...? At present there are (or were) no speed limit signs, so it appears the buses may be entitled to travel at 50km/h on the "Bus Lane" yet this connection between Miskin and Dean Streets is really something that should be part of the bus depot internal road network. Or if it MUST be outside, then it should be treated as a quiet street in a park rather than allowing an internal connecting road in what was originally better suited as a "park" than a high speed bus lane. I understand BQ was consulted ... but was anybody else? Perhaps the question should be asked as to who specifically was consulted at BQ? In other words is this a design BQ agreed ... with BCC? A cynic has asked whether the "red" crossing remained only until AFTER the opening celebrations for the bridge (Frasers Folly?) on the weekend. Perhaps since that bridge is the result of asking for a road crossing of Milton Road, we should be asking Mr Fraser for a crossing of Miskin Street? MY......................... At 12:47 PM 19/08/2009, Mick Fanning wrote: >What is going on at the Toowong cemetary roundabout? That lovely new >red crossing they put in a couple of weeks ago has been dug up and >replaced with asphalt. I wonder if the cycling budget paid for that? > >Mick Fanning > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2312 - Release Date: >08/18/09 18:05:00 From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Sun Aug 23 23:51:12 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Sun Aug 23 23:51:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RBWH Cycle Centre details Message-ID: http://www.health.qld.gov.au/rbwh%5Fcycle%5Fcentre/ R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090824/1db6fec9/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 08:21:53 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Mon Aug 24 08:22:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] coro drv bikeway specs.... Message-ID: I raised some design issues relating to the upgraded section with BCC; in particular the use of the split face wall blocks, the clearance of the rest stop on the bike side and width of the path. BCC responded that everything was per the Austroads guidelines and furthermore that "Bicycle Queensland has been a major stakeholder in this project and continues to provide advice for future stages of the Bicentennial Bikeway upgrade." BCC advises me that the finished path will provide an edge line 0.5m from the split face wall, a 3.5m bike section, a 2m pedestrian section and a further 0.5m shoulder on the river side. They also advise that the bike rest area provides a 1m clearance from the bikeway in accordance with the good book. That all had me a bit confused. So I took a tape to it today. The edge line looks set to be 0.5m from the wall as promised, however when I measure the new bike section at the Park Rd end it only measures 2.64m, far short of the promised 3.5m. When you get to the rest stop the track does become wider and seems to meet the spec but between there and Park Rd it seems to taper in significantly, but not abruptly. The pedestrian side seems to maintain its 2m width all the way but looks wickedly narrow for the sort of pedestrian behaviour that has been commonplace for so many years down there. The Park Rd end is really not much wider than the rest of the track used to be; sure it was not all paved but peds and cyclists could get onto the grass in a pinch. So for all the money we have spent on it we seem to have ended up with a bottleneck anyway. As for the 1m clearance at the rest area, that would seem to imply that the rest area is up on top of the seat there. If you sit on the seat and place your bike in front of the seat that would seem to me to put you just 0.5m from the track not 1m as BCC claims. I am just a little concerned that bikes might have to be just propped up there with pedal against the seat as not everyone has a sidestand and such bikes could easily topple back onto the track. A rubbish bin seems to have evolved there too which eats up much of that clearance, hoping that not going to be a permanent fixture. As for the choice of using the jagged split face blocks for a bounding wall, BCC says that they chose these to match the ones used near the regatta hotel end (a design done some quarter of a century ago, before the Austroads guidelines and much lower in height). While BCC did not specifically say that BQ was happy with all of the design details or even whether BQ were made privy to all the finer design details, they did try to infer that BQ was fully engaged in the design. I don't think that is likely to be true. BQ may have been 'consulted' but there is no telling that any of their recommendations were adopted or even considered. But hey, perhaps it all good and my measurements and concerns are a little off the mark. It looks like somebody had got the message that the transition from the old divided section to the new separated section was fraught with risk but I think the complex arrangement of blues and green replete with yellow marked speed humps and the attempt to get pedestrians to cross the bike path at right angles is not going to have a lot of effect. Even today there were iPedestrians walking along obliviously on the green side. Green side? Yep the red on the newer north quay section seems to be out of favour with the BCC this year, so it really is a rainbow experience riding to town now. (and don't forget those blue LED lamps on the trackside too) While all this Van Gogh work was being done last Friday night it was closed to cyclists by a few traffic cones, the gap between them was wider than some of our bikeways and not unexpectedly a cyclists rode in, there was no traffic controller. Then there was a yell from a traffic controller up on Coro Drv, and cyclists including myself were told to use the footpath toward Toowong. No detour signs, no dismount signs, seemingly no plan at all. Footpath is extremely narrow there and has No Cyclists signs placed further along and a barrier fence to prevent you getting on the road. I got on the road before the fence but others did not. I pointed out this craziness of this half arsed attempt to divert cyclists off the track and seemingly onto a closed footpath or the road at night. BCC rang me back and said it intended cyclists to push their bikes to Toowong using the footpath. Total crap - they just did not have a plan in place and there is no room to push cycles along there when there are pedestrians using it. Well I guess we only have about another five such 'upgrades' to happen. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090824/b7ba2ca6/attachment.htm From pharmer_kim at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 08:42:20 2009 From: pharmer_kim at hotmail.com (kim) Date: Mon Aug 24 08:42:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] or maybe.... Message-ID: or maybe they are more correctly iPodestrians. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090824/5e271e25/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon Aug 24 18:45:56 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon Aug 24 18:46:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] coro drv bikeway specs.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090824234555.XSUB19419.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Mmmmmm ... Doesn't sound too flash ... thanks for the details Kim. I note that for just $600 Main Roads is currently offering a course in how to provide for pedestrians and cyclists ... I would be more than a little concerned if it turns out the "lecturers" are those building the stuff we get today ... and more so if they import guests ... especially so if the result is more of the same facilities for the same or similar reasons ...! Let's face it ... there is NO problem with defining what is required or how it "should" be built ... that has always been easy and available ... for at least 20 years and probably quite a lot longer .. for anyone interested or competent. So what is it that prevents provision of proper facilities given the multi-million dollar budgets involved ... plus all the experts? MY............. At 11:21 PM 24/08/2009, kim wrote: >I raised some design issues relating to the upgraded section with BCC; >in particular the use of the split face wall blocks, the clearance of >the rest stop on the bike side and width of the path. BCC responded that >everything was per the Austroads guidelines and furthermore that >"Bicycle Queensland has been a major stakeholder in this project and >continues to provide advice for future stages of the Bicentennial >Bikeway upgrade." BCC advises me that the finished path will provide an >edge line 0.5m from the split face wall, a 3.5m bike section, a 2m >pedestrian section and a further 0.5m shoulder on the river side. They >also advise that the bike rest area provides a 1m clearance from the >bikeway in accordance with the good book. >That all had me a bit confused. So I took a tape to it today. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Aug 24 19:56:51 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Aug 24 19:57:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BICYCLE AWARENESS ZONES Message-ID: This looks like the final word from Mainroads on BAZs http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/~/media/files/business-and-industry/tech nical-publications/traffic-and-road-use-management-manual/1_39july2009.p df R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090825/2a1b4ac9/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon Aug 24 20:42:27 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon Aug 24 20:42:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] BICYCLE AWARENESS ZONES In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090825014225.VZHL4842.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Richard ... I have had a very quick look through including at the Appendix ... quick but I trust most people who know anything at all about the BFZ that "became" the BAZ would know I know the topic. It looks like a typical poorly documented bit of Qld policy with attitude ... without much if any scrutiny external to the department (unless "BQ was consulted") and without much substance other than a continuation of the Main Roads Policy for NOT providing for cyclists on state controlled main roads ... or on any other roads ... and its policy for NOT reducing the CAUSES of the crashes that make cyclists over-represented (although there isn't much 'solid' evidence of this either). These include urban speed limits among the highest in the developed world, total dedication to avoidance of provision for cyclists on road, and apparent complete disregard for policies that assert a need to reduce the mode share of cars by way of increasing the mode share of walking, cycling and/or public transport. Thus we get a billion dollar M1 but try find a sign showing motorists where the V1 crosses the M1 feeders. Or visit the third or is it the fourth redesign of the Moggill Road - Western Freeway Bikeway crossing ... or those crossings of Dean and Miskin Streets on the multi-million dollar Western Freeway Bikeway with its latest addition, the $13m bridge to nowhere and its merge and crossing onto the road ...! Or have a look closely at how many of the "bike lanes" you see around SEQ that actually comply with more than the absolute bare minimum spatial ie "operational" requirements that Main Roads espouses so conveniently in this document but then negates elsewhere. Or just have a look to see how many roads comply with the MR definitions and constraints in this document and then ask if the intent if not the effect of the document is to effectively ban "encouragement" of cycling on the road on virtually all roads where a facility might be needed? For example do YOU know what 3000AADT means? Do you live near a road with this level of traffic? So then to some of the constraints on use of BAZ ... How often have you heard that not enough cyclists use the road to justify the cost of facilities? Then from this document, why is it unclear whether in circumstances where a "better" cycling facility can or could be installed but funds are not available and may not for years, that BAZ is banned? Surely MR does not want to discourage people from cycling so there won't be enough out there to justify the cost of the facilities? Or is it to discourage cycling "on the road" so the novice cyclists then are encouraged to support bikepaths which in Qld is any footpath thus allowing NOTHING to be done by MR for cyclists? From an evidence perspective, it is easy for MR to promote and use as justification the idea that the hit from behind and car door crashes are a reason for NOT permitting BAZ. It is an interesting strategy based primarily on fear. But how many of these occur at BAZ sites ...? More importantly, how many are NOT at BAZ sites? If they are not at BAZ sites then (i) what is to be done to reduce the crashes, and (ii) why ban BAZ if it appears they may in fact reduce these crashes ... as we think actually occurs? Its just another nail in the coffin of the rhetoric that supposedly supports cycling ... based on almost no references and seemingly based on 20 year old Australia design concepts that are threatening to those fear the roads becoming safe for pedestrians and cyclists .. let alone being responsible for why the roads we do have remain so dangerous that they are not safe for cyclists to use ... or at least not safe enough for road authorities "to endorse the likely presence of cyclists on the road". Sadly in such a situation and just a few days short of 10 years since BCC cycling expert Kerry Fien was fatally injured while cycling through a Main Roads standard "required" (but for cyclists, dangerous) intersection, it appears nothing has been learned (other than how to try to discourage cycling on the road) despite many similar instances to the BAZ being in use elsewhere including now in the USA. Ahh well ... worse than the USA ... now there IS a record to be proud of. But I wonder, is this a result of the amalgamation of Mr and QT and if it is, is it also a sign the "roadies" (road builders not road cyclists) have finally won dominance over QT and all that air-fairy policy stuff that at least some of us thought had merit ...? MY............................ At 10:56 AM 25/08/2009, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA251E.EE95BEA4" > >This looks like the final word from Mainroads on BAZs > >http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/~/media/files/business-and-industry/technical-publications/traffic-and-road-use-management-manual/1_39july2009.pdf > > > >R >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2324 - Release Date: >08/24/09 12:55:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090825/5969d088/attachment.htm From busrail at fastmail.fm Tue Aug 25 05:54:21 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Tue Aug 25 05:54:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] coro drv bikeway specs.... In-Reply-To: <20090824234555.XSUB19419.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: Interesting and sickening Kim thanks for the effort. I don't know the answer to your ultimate question Michael. I noticed the course posted by PedBikeTrans and see the only bit about the presentation is the following "This course has been developed by Main Roads Queensland based on the NSW Roads and Traffic Authority's very successful "Designing for Bicycles and Pedestrians" course. It has been adapted for Queensland conditions and forms part of the Main Roads' Road Planning and Design course series." Can't see that it will advance matters very far, but at least some of the time will be out and about by bicycle so some participants might learn some things for themselves. No chance you could meet up with them on the day/days Kim? at some appropriate point of the cycling itinerary. Shouldn't be too hard, you seem to be all over at appropriate times and to know what is going on.. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Tuesday, 25 August 2009 9:46 AM To: kim Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] coro drv bikeway specs.... Mmmmmm ... Doesn't sound too flash ... thanks for the details Kim. I note that for just $600 Main Roads is currently offering a course in how to provide for pedestrians and cyclists ... I would be more than a little concerned if it turns out the "lecturers" are those building the stuff we get today ... and more so if they import guests ... especially so if the result is more of the same facilities for the same or similar reasons ...! Let's face it ... there is NO problem with defining what is required or how it "should" be built ... that has always been easy and available ... for at least 20 years and probably quite a lot longer .. for anyone interested or competent. So what is it that prevents provision of proper facilities given the multi-million dollar budgets involved ... plus all the experts? MY............. At 11:21 PM 24/08/2009, kim wrote: >I raised some design issues relating to the upgraded section with BCC; >in particular the use of the split face wall blocks, the clearance of >the rest stop on the bike side and width of the path. BCC responded >that everything was per the Austroads guidelines and furthermore that >"Bicycle Queensland has been a major stakeholder in this project and >continues to provide advice for future stages of the Bicentennial >Bikeway upgrade." BCC advises me that the finished path will provide an >edge line 0.5m from the split face wall, a 3.5m bike section, a 2m >pedestrian section and a further 0.5m shoulder on the river side. They >also advise that the bike rest area provides a 1m clearance from the >bikeway in accordance with the good book. That all had me a bit >confused. So I took a tape to it today. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Aug 27 01:44:17 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Aug 27 01:46:50 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Google map of magpie attack sites Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE105CD9382B@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=113681151762315606238.00047164da77d20d6ce89&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-27.337615,153.020325&spn=0.336697,0.615921&z=11&iwloc=00047164e96018fd2b291 http://tinyurl.com/l2zghy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090827/c1941c12/attachment.htm From Scott.Gordon at qimr.edu.au Thu Aug 27 21:06:30 2009 From: Scott.Gordon at qimr.edu.au (Scott Gordon) Date: Thu Aug 27 21:06:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding bikes on old train lines Message-ID: <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4789@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> For those looking for a little inspiration (or distraction) : >From the ABC web site : two guys from Byron who worked out how to ride bikes along disused train lines. See http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/28/2669477.htm?site=news Cheers Scott From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Aug 27 22:45:36 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Aug 27 22:45:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding bikes on old train lines In-Reply-To: <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4789@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> References: <4E51AF07E2E53D4C842526904C0FD26D9E4789@SPHINX.adqimr.ad.lan> Message-ID: <116989.63327.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If only we have more disused train tracks but then given the low usage of normal train tracks, couldn't we used them anyway :-). You will have really go incentive to ride fast with a locomotive behind you :-). Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Scott Gordon To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Cc: Scott Gordon Sent: Friday, 28 August, 2009 12:06:30 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Riding bikes on old train lines For those looking for a little inspiration (or distraction) : >From the ABC web site : two guys from Byron who worked out how to ride bikes along disused train lines. See http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/28/2669477.htm?site=news Cheers Scott _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. 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