[bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek

Wed Apr 1 20:32:39 CDT 2009

Matt

If you are in possession of any information along the lines of names with threats made, and you believe it so serious that you post this, then it’s really important that you report it to the police (formally, not your mates absent or otherwise). Even if they won’t or can’t do anything, it is on record in case anything happens such as you seem to believe is so probable ... and you never know, a boy/girl in blue may just knock on someone’s door and suggest they take a cold shower ... and perhaps have a look for weed and broken tail lights at the same time.

Regards

Pete

From: Matt [mailto:matt at people.net.au] 
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 9:57 AM
To: 'Dave Mc'; bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au; Peter Whittle
Subject: Re: RE: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek

Valid points made by all here (and thanks to all who have corrected my previously incorrect view of single-file on single-lane roads :)

I *could* tell my mates that are in the police but the one who would do something about it has been reassigned to special duties for a couple of years - and the police in Toowoomba have proven on many an occasion to be unwilling to bother going to Murphy's Creek for anything.

I'm also not advocating running away from abuse or a fight - I'm more interested in informing people of the situation so that they are better able to make an informed decision about what to watch for and to be aware of potential situations.  The roads in this area are narrow and the locals are able to drive around while drunk in oversize 4WD's because there is not a police presence.  If you get someone who is not blessed with fore-thought for their actions, the legal system may be highly developed and there to make the people answer for their crimes but people still have smashed bikes and smashed bones and the potential for death or lifelong injuries.

I'm the same way with roads.  I ride through MC myself at times (it is a FANTASTIC (fast!) ride when the westerlies are blowing! :) but I know the area and the kind of people that are there and it requires a heightened sense of awareness when going through there.  The difference between there and riding in Brisbane is that there is little traffic and the chances of being mowed down and not found with the perpetrator being unknown are far greater.  I will not ride on footpaths in Brisbane because I am a vehicle that is entitled to the road as well - but discretion does override this on Bowen Bridge rd as it is just downright dangerous through there with those narrow lanes.

The whole basis of this is "possession of knowledge that may save your life" and "be safe".

On Wed 01/04/09 22:57 , "Peter Whittle" pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au sent:

I'm for softly-softly to a point, but at the end of the day, we have a
highly developed justice system that is designed for such folk, so while
discretion is good (and I have worked in such areas wearing a blue shirt),
nor can we allow ourselves to be intimidated by such people. They don't own
Murphy's Creek, or the roads around it, and they can't go around assaulting
people they don't like or understand. Nor, for that matter, do they, by and
large. One idiot will drive into some cyclists in the middle of Sydney - it
doesn't have to be Banjo-land - but many more have sworn to their mates that
they would do it and they have never done it. There is a lot of brave talk
that does not translate into stupid action. Heck, if I was going to fold
over on such a threat, would I be riding on Brisbane roads?

The message out of the Sydney case and many others was obey the road rules
and be cool-headed - don't throw back the abuse or you lose your moral
right, but report it to the police, persistently, and eventually the message
will get through.

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au [bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> ]
On Behalf Of Dave Mc
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 6:00 AM
To: bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> 
Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek

Ian- what you quote is perfectly correct- BUT- it won't bring back a number
of dead cyclists, or suddenly miraculously heal injuries. It finally comes
down to discretion being the better part of valour. There are times when it
is wiser to abrogate one's rights to come home alive to one's family again.
The S word- survival. 

A couple of us are currently rewriting the Queensland Bicentennial National
Trail guidebooks (as volunteers)- massive job Qld has half the books- six.
(anyone with any interest in this contact me off list).

We are encountering this very difficulty right across Queensland. As the
Trail wends its way south we are now finding many areas on the edges of
towns that were rural 20 years ago that are now rural residential (and the
Trail DOES pass through Murphys Creek- we cycled it recently auditing the
Trail).

The difficulties you have listed we have encountered in a number of places.
Folks like to grow their recreational plants and DON'T like strangers
passing by. We were challenged by one guy once hundreds of metres from his
house- and we had never left (or were going to leave) public road. He was
finally supportive when he realised our mission- but his initial hostility
was unnerving. 

Other places we have heard of guys who are pretty handy with guns. How do
you write all this up in public notes? Can't be too direct- it becomes quite
an exercise in creatively writing veiled messages hoping trekkers pick up
the drift!

Softly softly is the order of the day methinks. 

-----Original Message-----
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On Behalf Of bikeqld-request at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld-request at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> 
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 3:00 AM
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Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. Riding around Toowoomba (Matt)
2. Re: Riding around Toowoomba (Ian Lister)
3. RE: Riding around Toowoomba (Peter Whittle)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:48:51 +0000
From: Matt <matt at people.net.au <javascript:top.opencompose('matt at people.net.au','','','')> >
Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba
To: "BIQ" <bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> >
Message-ID: <33406.1238543331 at people.net.au <javascript:top.opencompose('33406.1238543331 at people.net.au','','','')> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything
for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the
circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the
Toowoomba Range.
I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not
in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area
with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on
the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is
an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are
well versed in the life on two wheels.
(Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a
message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives
near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of
many sirens).
Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat
like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing
- it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional
bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the
night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so
that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes.
My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who
will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the
road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto
a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel
lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone
in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood
or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will
semi-respect your rights on the road!
The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the
Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride
single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be
sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are
people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will
think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for
sport - especially if they are "hogging the road".
Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help
prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:11:54 +1000 (EST)
From: Ian Lister <list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net <javascript:top.opencompose('list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net','','','')> >
Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba
To: bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> 
Message-ID: <20090401100450.W1484 at singha.lister.id.au <javascript:top.opencompose('20090401100450.W1484 at singha.lister.id.au','','','')> >
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hi Matt,

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote:
[snip]
> The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the 
> Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single 
> file through this area (as dictated by the road rules)
[snip]

I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit 
cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking).

http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast

=====8<-----
151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider

(1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is 
not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection 
(3) applies to the rider.

Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units.

(2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane 
alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection 
(3) applies to the rider.

Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units.

(3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 
other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders.

(4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not 
a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside 
another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from 
the other rider.

Maximum penalty - penalty units.

(5) In this section -

road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a 
shared path and any shoulder of the road.
=====8<-----

Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some 
circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's 
certainly not required by the road rules.

Cheers,

Ian

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:31:31 +1000
From: Peter Whittle <peter.whittle at qut.edu.au <javascript:top.opencompose('peter.whittle at qut.edu.au','','','')> >
Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba
To: Ian Lister <list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net <javascript:top.opencompose('list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net','','','')> >,
"bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> " <bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> >
Message-ID:
<51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E at QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au <javascript:top.opencompose('51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E at QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au','','','')> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My thought was, have you sent this to your mates in the police, Matt? Might
be appropriate.

Pete 

-----Original Message-----
From: bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au [bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld-bounces at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> ]
On Behalf Of Ian Lister
Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 10:12 AM
To: bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au <javascript:top.opencompose('bikeqld at bikeqld.org.au','','','')> 
Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba