From museduca at bigpond.net.au Wed Apr 1 15:00:23 2009 From: museduca at bigpond.net.au (Dave Mc) Date: Wed Apr 1 15:00:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek In-Reply-To: <200904011700.n31H06Qx024840@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200904011700.n31H06Qx024840@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <0BDB00F14EAB420BAC1E6ED4ADE4EA78@acer6dff78d94b> Ian- what you quote is perfectly correct- BUT- it won't bring back a number of dead cyclists, or suddenly miraculously heal injuries. It finally comes down to discretion being the better part of valour. There are times when it is wiser to abrogate one's rights to come home alive to one's family again. The S word- survival. A couple of us are currently rewriting the Queensland Bicentennial National Trail guidebooks (as volunteers)- massive job Qld has half the books- six. (anyone with any interest in this contact me off list). We are encountering this very difficulty right across Queensland. As the Trail wends its way south we are now finding many areas on the edges of towns that were rural 20 years ago that are now rural residential (and the Trail DOES pass through Murphys Creek- we cycled it recently auditing the Trail). The difficulties you have listed we have encountered in a number of places. Folks like to grow their recreational plants and DON'T like strangers passing by. We were challenged by one guy once hundreds of metres from his house- and we had never left (or were going to leave) public road. He was finally supportive when he realised our mission- but his initial hostility was unnerving. Other places we have heard of guys who are pretty handy with guns. How do you write all this up in public notes? Can't be too direct- it becomes quite an exercise in creatively writing veiled messages hoping trekkers pick up the drift! Softly softly is the order of the day methinks. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 3:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au You can reach the person managing the list at bikeqld-owner@bikeqld.org.au When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Riding around Toowoomba (Matt) 2. Re: Riding around Toowoomba (Ian Lister) 3. RE: Riding around Toowoomba (Peter Whittle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:48:51 +0000 From: Matt Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: "BIQ" Message-ID: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the Toowoomba Range. I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are well versed in the life on two wheels. (Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of many sirens). Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing - it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes. My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will semi-respect your rights on the road! The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for sport - especially if they are "hogging the road". Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e9a2591c/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:11:54 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:31:31 +1000 From: Peter Whittle Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: Ian Lister , "bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au" Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My thought was, have you sent this to your mates in the police, Matt? Might be appropriate. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 10:12 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 ************************************** From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 1 17:57:31 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 1 17:57:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek In-Reply-To: <0BDB00F14EAB420BAC1E6ED4ADE4EA78@acer6dff78d94b> References: <200904011700.n31H06Qx024840@laika.gnusto.com> <0BDB00F14EAB420BAC1E6ED4ADE4EA78@acer6dff78d94b> Message-ID: <001301c9b31d$3de06770$b9a13650$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I'm for softly-softly to a point, but at the end of the day, we have a highly developed justice system that is designed for such folk, so while discretion is good (and I have worked in such areas wearing a blue shirt), nor can we allow ourselves to be intimidated by such people. They don't own Murphy's Creek, or the roads around it, and they can't go around assaulting people they don't like or understand. Nor, for that matter, do they, by and large. One idiot will drive into some cyclists in the middle of Sydney - it doesn't have to be Banjo-land - but many more have sworn to their mates that they would do it and they have never done it. There is a lot of brave talk that does not translate into stupid action. Heck, if I was going to fold over on such a threat, would I be riding on Brisbane roads? The message out of the Sydney case and many others was obey the road rules and be cool-headed - don't throw back the abuse or you lose your moral right, but report it to the police, persistently, and eventually the message will get through. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Dave Mc Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 6:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek Ian- what you quote is perfectly correct- BUT- it won't bring back a number of dead cyclists, or suddenly miraculously heal injuries. It finally comes down to discretion being the better part of valour. There are times when it is wiser to abrogate one's rights to come home alive to one's family again. The S word- survival. A couple of us are currently rewriting the Queensland Bicentennial National Trail guidebooks (as volunteers)- massive job Qld has half the books- six. (anyone with any interest in this contact me off list). We are encountering this very difficulty right across Queensland. As the Trail wends its way south we are now finding many areas on the edges of towns that were rural 20 years ago that are now rural residential (and the Trail DOES pass through Murphys Creek- we cycled it recently auditing the Trail). The difficulties you have listed we have encountered in a number of places. Folks like to grow their recreational plants and DON'T like strangers passing by. We were challenged by one guy once hundreds of metres from his house- and we had never left (or were going to leave) public road. He was finally supportive when he realised our mission- but his initial hostility was unnerving. Other places we have heard of guys who are pretty handy with guns. How do you write all this up in public notes? Can't be too direct- it becomes quite an exercise in creatively writing veiled messages hoping trekkers pick up the drift! Softly softly is the order of the day methinks. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 3:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au You can reach the person managing the list at bikeqld-owner@bikeqld.org.au When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Riding around Toowoomba (Matt) 2. Re: Riding around Toowoomba (Ian Lister) 3. RE: Riding around Toowoomba (Peter Whittle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:48:51 +0000 From: Matt Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: "BIQ" Message-ID: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the Toowoomba Range. I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are well versed in the life on two wheels. (Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of many sirens). Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing - it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes. My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will semi-respect your rights on the road! The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for sport - especially if they are "hogging the road". Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e9a2591c/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:11:54 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:31:31 +1000 From: Peter Whittle Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: Ian Lister , "bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au" Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My thought was, have you sent this to your mates in the police, Matt? Might be appropriate. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 10:12 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 ************************************** _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Apr 1 18:32:14 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Apr 1 18:32:25 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Re-cycling cities - Velo-city 2009 Message-ID: Cool video! http://www.velo-city2009.com/homepage-en.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090402/94c55b9f/attachment-0001.htm From matt at people.net.au Wed Apr 1 18:57:16 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Wed Apr 1 18:57:32 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek Message-ID: <45913.1238630236@people.net.au> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }Valid points made by all here (and thanks to all who have corrected my previously incorrect view of single-file on single-lane roads :) I *could* tell my mates that are in the police but the one who would do something about it has been reassigned to special duties for a couple of years - and the police in Toowoomba have proven on many an occasion to be unwilling to bother going to Murphy's Creek for anything. I'm also not advocating running away from abuse or a fight - I'm more interested in informing people of the situation so that they are better able to make an informed decision about what to watch for and to be aware of potential situations. The roads in this area are narrow and the locals are able to drive around while drunk in oversize 4WD's because there is not a police presence. If you get someone who is not blessed with fore-thought for their actions, the legal system may be highly developed and there to make the people answer for their crimes but people still have smashed bikes and smashed bones and the potential for death or lifelong injuries. I'm the same way with roads. I ride through MC myself at times (it is a FANTASTIC (fast!) ride when the westerlies are blowing! :) but I know the area and the kind of people that are there and it requires a heightened sense of awareness when going through there. The difference between there and riding in Brisbane is that there is little traffic and the chances of being mowed down and not found with the perpetrator being unknown are far greater. I will not ride on footpaths in Brisbane because I am a vehicle that is entitled to the road as well - but discretion does override this on Bowen Bridge rd as it is just downright dangerous through there with those narrow lanes. The whole basis of this is "possession of knowledge that may save your life" and "be safe". On Wed 01/04/09 22:57 , "Peter Whittle" pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au sent: I'm for softly-softly to a point, but at the end of the day, we have a highly developed justice system that is designed for such folk, so while discretion is good (and I have worked in such areas wearing a blue shirt), nor can we allow ourselves to be intimidated by such people. They don't own Murphy's Creek, or the roads around it, and they can't go around assaulting people they don't like or understand. Nor, for that matter, do they, by and large. One idiot will drive into some cyclists in the middle of Sydney - it doesn't have to be Banjo-land - but many more have sworn to their mates that they would do it and they have never done it. There is a lot of brave talk that does not translate into stupid action. Heck, if I was going to fold over on such a threat, would I be riding on Brisbane roads? The message out of the Sydney case and many others was obey the road rules and be cool-headed - don't throw back the abuse or you lose your moral right, but report it to the police, persistently, and eventually the message will get through. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [] On Behalf Of Dave Mc Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 6:00 AM To: Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek Ian- what you quote is perfectly correct- BUT- it won't bring back a number of dead cyclists, or suddenly miraculously heal injuries. It finally comes down to discretion being the better part of valour. There are times when it is wiser to abrogate one's rights to come home alive to one's family again. The S word- survival. A couple of us are currently rewriting the Queensland Bicentennial National Trail guidebooks (as volunteers)- massive job Qld has half the books- six. (anyone with any interest in this contact me off list). We are encountering this very difficulty right across Queensland. As the Trail wends its way south we are now finding many areas on the edges of towns that were rural 20 years ago that are now rural residential (and the Trail DOES pass through Murphys Creek- we cycled it recently auditing the Trail). The difficulties you have listed we have encountered in a number of places. Folks like to grow their recreational plants and DON'T like strangers passing by. We were challenged by one guy once hundreds of metres from his house- and we had never left (or were going to leave) public road. He was finally supportive when he realised our mission- but his initial hostility was unnerving. Other places we have heard of guys who are pretty handy with guns. How do you write all this up in public notes? Can't be too direct- it becomes quite an exercise in creatively writing veiled messages hoping trekkers pick up the drift! Softly softly is the order of the day methinks. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [] On Behalf Of Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 3:00 AM To: Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to You can reach the person managing the list at When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Riding around Toowoomba (Matt) 2. Re: Riding around Toowoomba (Ian Lister) 3. RE: Riding around Toowoomba (Peter Whittle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:48:51 +0000 From: Matt Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: "BIQ" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the Toowoomba Range. I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are well versed in the life on two wheels. (Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of many sirens). Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing - it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes. My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will semi-respect your rights on the road! The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for sport - especially if they are "hogging the road". Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e9a2591c/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:11:54 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8 Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090401/1ea09a85/attachment-0001.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 1 20:32:39 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 1 20:33:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek In-Reply-To: <45913.1238630236@people.net.au> References: <45913.1238630236@people.net.au> Message-ID: <001f01c9b332$e98b0a70$bca11f50$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Matt If you are in possession of any information along the lines of names with threats made, and you believe it so serious that you post this, then it?s really important that you report it to the police (formally, not your mates absent or otherwise). Even if they won?t or can?t do anything, it is on record in case anything happens such as you seem to believe is so probable ... and you never know, a boy/girl in blue may just knock on someone?s door and suggest they take a cold shower ... and perhaps have a look for weed and broken tail lights at the same time. Regards Pete From: Matt [mailto:matt@people.net.au] Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 9:57 AM To: 'Dave Mc'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au; Peter Whittle Subject: Re: RE: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek Valid points made by all here (and thanks to all who have corrected my previously incorrect view of single-file on single-lane roads :) I *could* tell my mates that are in the police but the one who would do something about it has been reassigned to special duties for a couple of years - and the police in Toowoomba have proven on many an occasion to be unwilling to bother going to Murphy's Creek for anything. I'm also not advocating running away from abuse or a fight - I'm more interested in informing people of the situation so that they are better able to make an informed decision about what to watch for and to be aware of potential situations. The roads in this area are narrow and the locals are able to drive around while drunk in oversize 4WD's because there is not a police presence. If you get someone who is not blessed with fore-thought for their actions, the legal system may be highly developed and there to make the people answer for their crimes but people still have smashed bikes and smashed bones and the potential for death or lifelong injuries. I'm the same way with roads. I ride through MC myself at times (it is a FANTASTIC (fast!) ride when the westerlies are blowing! :) but I know the area and the kind of people that are there and it requires a heightened sense of awareness when going through there. The difference between there and riding in Brisbane is that there is little traffic and the chances of being mowed down and not found with the perpetrator being unknown are far greater. I will not ride on footpaths in Brisbane because I am a vehicle that is entitled to the road as well - but discretion does override this on Bowen Bridge rd as it is just downright dangerous through there with those narrow lanes. The whole basis of this is "possession of knowledge that may save your life" and "be safe". On Wed 01/04/09 22:57 , "Peter Whittle" pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au sent: I'm for softly-softly to a point, but at the end of the day, we have a highly developed justice system that is designed for such folk, so while discretion is good (and I have worked in such areas wearing a blue shirt), nor can we allow ourselves to be intimidated by such people. They don't own Murphy's Creek, or the roads around it, and they can't go around assaulting people they don't like or understand. Nor, for that matter, do they, by and large. One idiot will drive into some cyclists in the middle of Sydney - it doesn't have to be Banjo-land - but many more have sworn to their mates that they would do it and they have never done it. There is a lot of brave talk that does not translate into stupid action. Heck, if I was going to fold over on such a threat, would I be riding on Brisbane roads? The message out of the Sydney case and many others was obey the road rules and be cool-headed - don't throw back the abuse or you lose your moral right, but report it to the police, persistently, and eventually the message will get through. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au ] On Behalf Of Dave Mc Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 6:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Murphys Creek Ian- what you quote is perfectly correct- BUT- it won't bring back a number of dead cyclists, or suddenly miraculously heal injuries. It finally comes down to discretion being the better part of valour. There are times when it is wiser to abrogate one's rights to come home alive to one's family again. The S word- survival. A couple of us are currently rewriting the Queensland Bicentennial National Trail guidebooks (as volunteers)- massive job Qld has half the books- six. (anyone with any interest in this contact me off list). We are encountering this very difficulty right across Queensland. As the Trail wends its way south we are now finding many areas on the edges of towns that were rural 20 years ago that are now rural residential (and the Trail DOES pass through Murphys Creek- we cycled it recently auditing the Trail). The difficulties you have listed we have encountered in a number of places. Folks like to grow their recreational plants and DON'T like strangers passing by. We were challenged by one guy once hundreds of metres from his house- and we had never left (or were going to leave) public road. He was finally supportive when he realised our mission- but his initial hostility was unnerving. Other places we have heard of guys who are pretty handy with guns. How do you write all this up in public notes? Can't be too direct- it becomes quite an exercise in creatively writing veiled messages hoping trekkers pick up the drift! Softly softly is the order of the day methinks. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au ] On Behalf Of bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 3:00 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 Send bikeqld mailing list submissions to bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to bikeqld-request@bikeqld.org.au You can reach the person managing the list at bikeqld-owner@bikeqld.org.au When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of bikeqld digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Riding around Toowoomba (Matt) 2. Re: Riding around Toowoomba (Ian Lister) 3. RE: Riding around Toowoomba (Peter Whittle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:48:51 +0000 From: Matt > Subject: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: "BIQ" > Message-ID: <33406.1238543331@people.net.au > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I guess this should be passed around as a warning more than anything for those in the Toowoomba area who ride through Murphy's Creek (the circuit from Mt Kynock / Ballard Hill / Murphy's Creek / back the Toowoomba Range. I was talking to someone on the weekend who lives near the area (not in the township itself) and there is a LOT of discontent in the area with cyclists - particularly the packs who ride 2- and 3-abreast on the narrow, single-lane road. For the sake of clarity, this person is an ex-cyclist and has ridden motorbikes for near 40 years, so they are well versed in the life on two wheels. (Remember - I'm not advocating anything here - just passing on a message to the cycling community from someone I spoke to who lives near there and is expecting to wake up one morning to the sounds of many sirens). Now... the funny thing about Murphy's Creek is that it is somewhat like the joke about Tasmania - a bit of inbreeding - a lot of boozing - it's known for people who indulge in the wacky weed - the occasional bit of after-dark "lurve" with Bessy (before tipping her later in the night) - and even a family or two who may share the teeth around so that they can take turns chewing during mealtimes. My own experience has shown that there are people down that way who will NOT give any credence to the right of a cyclist being on the road and often think nothing of pulling out of a blind driveway onto a road with highway speed at zero knots (I've experienced the 4-wheel lockup more than once thanks to people who think like this). Someone in lycra automatically becomes a target for sport from a lump of wood or an empty stubby. You are not dealing with city types who will semi-respect your rights on the road! The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) and be sure to allow vehicles to pass whenever possible because there are people down that way in their 4WD's or old Falcon/Holden who will think nothing about running a pack off the road into the scrub for sport - especially if they are "hogging the road". Remember too - don't blame the messenger - I just want to help prevent someone losing bark or getting their bike trashed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090331/e9a2591c/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:11:54 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Lister > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <20090401100450.W1484@singha.lister.id.au > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:31:31 +1000 From: Peter Whittle > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba To: Ian Lister >, "bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au " > Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E3E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My thought was, have you sent this to your mates in the police, Matt? Might be appropriate. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au ] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 10:12 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Riding around Toowoomba Hi Matt, On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Matt wrote: [snip] > The whole point of this is that if anyone knows of people in the > Toowoomba area who ride through here - PLEASE tell them to ride single > file through this area (as dictated by the road rules) [snip] I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out that the road rules permit cyclists to cycle two abreast (and more if overtaking). http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Road_rules#Riding_two_abreast =====8<----- 151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider (1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (2) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subsection (3) applies to the rider. Maximum penalty - 20 penalty units. (3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders. (4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5m from the other rider. Maximum penalty - penalty units. (5) In this section - road does not include a road-related area, but includes a bicycle path, a shared path and any shoulder of the road. =====8<----- Not to say that riding single file might might not a good idea in some circumstances for the sake of courtesy or self-preservation, but it's certainly not required by the road rules. Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 ************************************** _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090402/7b85512d/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Apr 2 01:00:41 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Apr 2 01:01:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Senate Inquiry into Public Transport Message-ID: <20090402060038.JHVQ28907.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> For those interested, there is access to submissions by way of ... http://www.aph.gov.au/SENATE/committee/rrat_ctte/public_transport/submissions/sublist.htm MY........................... From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Sun Apr 5 18:14:55 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Sun Apr 5 18:15:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] =?utf-8?q?eMJA=3A_Bicycling_injuries_and_mortality_in_?= =?utf-8?b?VmljdG9yaWEsIDIwMDHDouKCrOKAnDIwMDY=?= Message-ID: Article in MJA today: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/190_07_060409/sik11001_fm.html Also editorial: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/190_07_060409/bau10159_fm.html I found both pretty superficial and not that useful. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090406/f881f892/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Sun Apr 5 19:19:20 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Apr 5 19:19:42 2009 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFtiaWtlcWxkXSBlTUpBOiBCaWN5Y2xpbmcgaW5qdXJpZXMgYW5k?= =?utf-8?B?IG1vcnRhbGl0eSBpbiBWaWN0b3JpYSwgMjAwMcOi4oKs4oCcMjAwNg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E4C@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Hi everyone I suggest it's better to read the editorial before the paper. I read the paper first and thought it very poor, then set about writing some notes about why (below). Then I was gratified to see the editorial gave it fairly short shrift too. Pete Looking at the graph, it is fairly apparent that Emergency Department presentations increased each year. However, hospital admissions, major trauma and deaths could not be said to have changed significantly. The author claims major trauma had a "marked increase", but this was in one year and in other years it flat-lined; furthermore there was no relationship between the frequency of major trauma and the rising rate of hospital admissions. To me, the author's conclusion looks unjustified and one wonders why he tried so hard to force this conclusion from the data. Also, in relation to the rise in ED presentations, the comparison was "per unit population", not "per unit bicycle usage". I observe there has been a marked increase in bicycling usage in this time (just look at the mass-ride participation). So how could you conclude much at all? If I'm right and bicycle usage increased, then it would possibly mean a fall in the rate of hospital admissions, major trauma and deaths per unit bike usage. Furthermore, this would be offset by health improvements for those taking up cycling. I'm glad the author concluded some lack of information and need for more data about participation, etc. Pete ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Monday, 6 April 2009 9:15 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] eMJA: Bicycling injuries and mortality in Victoria, 2001???2006 Article in MJA today: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/190_07_060409/sik11001_fm.html Also editorial: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/190_07_060409/bau10159_fm.html I found both pretty superficial and not that useful. R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090406/d3430cc8/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Sun Apr 5 20:14:22 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Sun Apr 5 21:15:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] eMJA: Bicycling injuries and mortality in Victoria, 2001=?UTF-8?B?w6LigqzigJw=?=2006 In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E4C@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: This suggests that the eMJA is not rigorously refereed. This surprises me. I wonder whether there is a subscriber to this learned journal ? in print form, that is ? on our list who would be willing to spend the time to read both article and editorial carefully and consider a letter to the editor about the disjunction between evidence and text in the paper. We know that the editorialists, Baumann and Rissel, are passionate advocates of cycling for health as well as many other reasons, so their comments might be taken by cynical AMA members, who are the base constituency of the AMA?s journal, as just the usual apologists for cycling. Someone less identified with ?the cause? might be taken more seriously, and the journal?s editors might even be chastened. J. On 6/4/09 10:19 AM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: > Hi everyone > > I suggest it's better to read the editorial before the paper. I read the paper > first and thought it very poor, then set about writing some notes about why > (below). Then I was gratified to see the editorial gave it fairly short shrift > too. > > Pete > > admissions for bicycle injuries increased significantly from 2001 to 2006. > There was also a marked increase in cyclists sustaining major trauma.> > > Looking at the graph, it is fairly apparent that Emergency Department > presentations increased each year. However, hospital admissions, major trauma > and deaths could not be said to have changed significantly. The author claims > major trauma had a "marked increase", but this was in one year and in other > years it flat-lined; furthermore there was no relationship between the > frequency of major trauma and the rising rate of hospital admissions. To me, > the author's conclusion looks unjustified and one wonders why he tried so hard > to force this conclusion from the data. > > Also, in relation to the rise in ED presentations, the comparison was "per > unit population", not "per unit bicycle usage". I observe there has been a > marked increase in bicycling usage in this time (just look at the mass-ride > participation). So how could you conclude much at all? If I'm right and > bicycle usage increased, then it would possibly mean a fall in the rate of > hospital admissions, major trauma and deaths per unit bike usage. Furthermore, > this would be offset by health improvements for those taking up cycling. > > I'm glad the author concluded some lack of information and need for more data > about participation, etc. > > Pete > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090406/78080273/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Apr 5 22:25:31 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Apr 5 22:25:42 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] eMJA: Bicycling injuries and mortality in Victoria, =?iso-8859-1?Q?2001=C3=A2=80=E2=80=9C2006?= In-Reply-To: References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E4C@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <20090406032514.VWOW13025.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Nicely put John ... and Pete ... Here is another way to put it ... sent privately this morning ... but now perhaps worth airing ...! Ah medical doctors ... or more accurately, their (perceived) all-pervading influence ...! No mention of the nobody killed in 40km/h zones in Victoria? Wonder why not? VERY sad to see Bauman and Rissel feeling they (still) need to write stuff like that (presumably) to either get (i) published by the MJA or (ii) public interest by not being seen to be too radical. All in all both (article and editorial) provide what is probably a useful indicator as to where we are actually at ... ie the reality rather than believing some of the rhetoric ....! Probably not quite what might be described as a disinterested and/or dispassionate peer review? And of course as with much similar "research", it depends on the perspective of the reader ...! And are informed advocates really still equated with "apologists"? Hopefully not ... ;-) ... having listened to an in depth interview with the "inventor" of the "Bionic Ear" earlier today on ABC 612. But not at all what I would describe as useful evidence of progress ... as Harry Owen and many others were saying much the same thing 10 years ago ... indeed more than 13 years ago ... and arguably almost nothing (useful) has happened and/or changed since .. IF these articles and the reported research is to be believed. Perhaps the MJA reflects the view through a Mercedes Benz star ? MY.................. At 11:14 AM 6/04/2009, John Nightingale wrote: >This suggests that the eMJA is not rigorously >refereed. This surprises me. I wonder whether >there is a subscriber to this learned journal ? >in print form, that is ? on our list who would >be willing to spend the time to read both >article and editorial carefully and consider a >letter to the editor about the disjunction >between evidence and text in the paper. > >We know that the editorialists, Baumann and >Rissel, are passionate advocates of cycling for >health as well as many other reasons, so their >comments might be taken by cynical AMA members, >who are the base constituency of the AMA?s >journal, as just the usual apologists for >cycling. Someone less identified with ?the >cause? might be taken more seriously, and the >journal?s editors might even be chastened. >J. > > >On 6/4/09 10:19 AM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: > >Hi everyone > >I suggest it's better to read the editorial >before the paper. I read the paper first and >thought it very poor, then set about writing >some notes about why (below). Then I was >gratified to see the editorial gave it fairly short shrift too. > >Pete > >presentations and hospital admissions for >bicycle injuries increased significantly from >2001 to 2006. There was also a marked increase >in cyclists sustaining major trauma.> > >Looking at the graph, it is fairly apparent that >Emergency Department presentations increased >each year. However, hospital admissions, major >trauma and deaths could not be said to have >changed significantly. The author claims major >trauma had a "marked increase", but this was in >one year and in other years it flat-lined; >furthermore there was no relationship between >the frequency of major trauma and the rising >rate of hospital admissions. To me, the author's >conclusion looks unjustified and one wonders why >he tried so hard to force this conclusion from the data. > >Also, in relation to the rise in ED >presentations, the comparison was "per unit >population", not "per unit bicycle usage". I >observe there has been a marked increase in >bicycling usage in this time (just look at the >mass-ride participation). So how could you >conclude much at all? If I'm right and bicycle >usage increased, then it would possibly mean a >fall in the rate of hospital admissions, major >trauma and deaths per unit bike usage. >Furthermore, this would be offset by health >improvements for those taking up cycling. > >I'm glad the author concluded some lack of >information and need for more data about participation, etc. > >Pete > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: >270.11.42/2042 - Release Date: 04/05/09 10:54:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090406/38839037/attachment.htm From admin at bikeqld.org.au Mon Apr 6 22:59:25 2009 From: admin at bikeqld.org.au (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Apr 6 23:00:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Brisbane 2 Ipswich Challenge (fwd) Message-ID: <20090407135756.I1484@singha.lister.id.au> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Pisasale, Lisa (B. Ripoll, MP)" To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:16:19 +1000 Subject: Brisbane 2 Ipswich Challenge Calling all Cycling Enthusiasts... The Brisbane 2 Ipswich Challenge is on so get on your riding gear and be part of supporting some great causes. Over the years the race has already raised close to $100,000 for the Royal Children's Hospital Foundation and Ipswich Hospital Foundation. Formally the Mall 2 Mall Challenge this ride has been a magnificent success and gets bigger and better every year. What: 2009 Goodna RSL Services Club Brisbane 2 Ipswich Challenge When: Sunday 26 April 7am start arrive in Ipswich from 9am Where: Starts Moorlands Park, Toowong and finishes at Queen's Park, Ipswich Who: Bernie Ripoll MP and 1000 cyclists Cost: $40 adults and only $20 kids under 16 Why: For a great community cause and some fun on the bike Register online at www.brisbane2ipswichchallenge.com For more information email bernie.ripoll.mp@aph.gov.au or call 3818 3900. Yours sincerely BERNIE RIPOLL Patron of the Brisbane 2 Ipswich Challenge & Fellow Cyclist From kim at teegee.com.au Tue Apr 7 07:23:40 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Tue Apr 7 07:27:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Green taxis Message-ID: <49DB45CC.5020209@teegee.com.au> I watched a couple of these 'Green Taxis' (tricycle rickshaws basically) in action in the CBD a few weeks ago. Anyone here seen them getting around the city? I was not sure if they were a regular service or visitors up from south for a promo as I think they have had them in Sydney for a while. I can remember seeing a similar scheme down the Gold Coast too many years ago trucking tourists around and perhaps even in Brisbane back in the mid 80's. These guys were loaded up with 3 passengers each and were spinning their way up the incline on Victoria Bridge using the 'bike lane' there (or is that a 'bike line'?). There's no way one of those rickshaws was going to fit in that bike lane as they are probably more than twice the width of that lane. Not surprisingly the motorists took to crossing the double centre line there to get around them to get pole position. Those guys and gals must get some awesome legs doing that all day, particularly if they get a few hefty passengers. From Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au Tue Apr 7 18:49:47 2009 From: Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au (Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au) Date: Tue Apr 7 18:50:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Green taxis In-Reply-To: <49DB45CC.5020209@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: The taxis 'drivers' should wear heart rate monitors and charge by the number of calories burnt. Ken Yeo ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ kim Sent by: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au 07/04/2009 10:23 PM Please consider the environment before printing this email To BikeQld cc Subject [bikeqld] Green taxis I watched a couple of these 'Green Taxis' (tricycle rickshaws basically) in action in the CBD a few weeks ago. Anyone here seen them getting around the city? I was not sure if they were a regular service or visitors up from south for a promo as I think they have had them in Sydney for a while. I can remember seeing a similar scheme down the Gold Coast too many years ago trucking tourists around and perhaps even in Brisbane back in the mid 80's. These guys were loaded up with 3 passengers each and were spinning their way up the incline on Victoria Bridge using the 'bike lane' there (or is that a 'bike line'?). There's no way one of those rickshaws was going to fit in that bike lane as they are probably more than twice the width of that lane. Not surprisingly the motorists took to crossing the double centre line there to get around them to get pole position. Those guys and gals must get some awesome legs doing that all day, particularly if they get a few hefty passengers. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090408/e1b4f3cc/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Apr 8 06:14:44 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Wed Apr 8 06:19:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <49DC8724.7010008@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090408/054c4ade/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 8 17:11:45 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Apr 8 17:12:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <49DC8724.7010008@teegee.com.au> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <49DC8724.7010008@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <496084.64008.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Kim, So are they making cyclists walk then? I have been on standby and so I have been driving the standby car and so haven't even rode on the Coro Drive pretend bikeway. How bad is it? I have idiots at work who reckon bicycle should have registration (again). I will pay for my registration the day that they give us descent cycling facilities! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 8 April, 2009 9:14:44 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? I was talking today to the Central Traffic Branch of the QPS about the lack of compliance with the 40kph zone through the HSL work site on Coro Drv and I mentioned that I had seen two police officers and two police cars parked on the footpath there and that they were paying attention to the cyclists on the bikeway totally oblivious to the speeding car traffic behind them. He said he thought the BCC was paying for those two officers to police the bikeway. If that was/is the case, I think that is a bit of an overkill in light of the car traffic problems there. Probably comes out of that massive cycle budget too. Peter Whittle wrote: The traffic controllers are the problem, standing there waving and frowning. The path there is no narrower than elsewhere, and people manage it just fine. Christ, why haven't we got traffic control on the footpaths of George St? Pissants. Oh well, I'll just use Highgate Hill from now on. Speaking of the 'blitz', I pulled over this morning to take a phone call. As I did that, a rider went past, no hands, chatting away on his phone and I thought, I could be quick like him! I finished my call and went around the corner, and there he was, with cops writing out a ticket. My lucky day, but not his :D Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 11:05 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro Drive? Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090408/443204ae/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Apr 8 18:07:26 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Wed Apr 8 18:11:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <496084.64008.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <374498.54778.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090326105503.A1280@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706530DB8@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <49DC8724.7010008@teegee.com.au> <496084.64008.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49DD2E2E.4090109@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/0114e786/attachment.htm From Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au Wed Apr 8 18:40:43 2009 From: Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au (Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au) Date: Wed Apr 8 18:41:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <49DD2E2E.4090109@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: My understanding of it is they are there for the safety of the workers on the site. Blatant disregard shown by a number of cyclists riding through the area has resulted in the injury of several workers. I believe there have already been at least five (avoidable) incidents. The stretch of path we are talking about is in total no more than 400 metres... yet some users [cyclists] just cannot allow themselves to sacrifice 30 seconds of their time to slow down.... Does this sound familiar to the issues put forward by cyclists against 'cagers' on the roads? B'gards. ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ kim Sent by: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au 09/04/2009 09:07 AM Please consider the environment before printing this email To BikeQld cc Subject Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? Hi Anthony, I am not certain of just what the Police were there to do. They were just leaning on the fence looking at the bikeway and talking to each other when I saw them. PeteW mentioned in an earlier post that they had nabbed a cyclist for using a mobile while riding. Perhaps it was just a 'hassle cyclists' initiative during bike week. If they are engaged by BCC then BCC may be able to say why they have got them there, they do that on many road jobs if it is deemed necessary. Perhaps one or some of the traffic controllers have been hassled in some way, there was an article in the paper recently about how the traffic controllers union is not happy with some safety and employment issues. I think tho, that the traffic controllers were partly to blame for some of the heated conflict during the sewer pipe epic works there last time with their lack of understanding of the rules and their own authority. I am not sure of how well the HSL related controllers have been doing their job but I have not had any grief with them. I have not been down that way for a few days but I am pretty sure that there is no requirement to dismount yet and I don't think the bypass section will have been opened yet as it seemed to have a lot of building to be done when I last saw it last. kim Anthony Lee wrote: Hi Kim, So are they making cyclists walk then? I have been on standby and so I have been driving the standby car and so haven't even rode on the Coro Drive pretend bikeway. How bad is it? I have idiots at work who reckon bicycle should have registration (again). I will pay for my registration the day that they give us descent cycling facilities! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 8 April, 2009 9:14:44 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? I was talking today to the Central Traffic Branch of the QPS about the lack of compliance with the 40kph zone through the HSL work site on Coro Drv and I mentioned that I had seen two police officers and two police cars parked on the footpath there and that they were paying attention to the cyclists on the bikeway totally oblivious to the speeding car traffic behind them. He said he thought the BCC was paying for those two officers to police the bikeway. If that was/is the case, I think that is a bit of an overkill in light of the car traffic problems there. Probably comes out of that massive cycle budget too. Peter Whittle wrote: The traffic controllers are the problem, standing there waving and frowning. The path there is no narrower than elsewhere, and people manage it just fine. Christ, why haven't we got traffic control on the footpaths of George St? Pissants. Oh well, I'll just use Highgate Hill from now on. Speaking of the 'blitz', I pulled over this morning to take a phone call. As I did that, a rider went past, no hands, chatting away on his phone and I thought, I could be quick like him! I finished my call and went around the corner, and there he was, with cops writing out a ticket. My lucky day, but not his :D Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [ mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 11:05 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro Drive? Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now.. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/c2a30a70/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 8 19:07:07 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Apr 8 19:07:27 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <212295.5996.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ken and Kim, Sorry I hope I haven't confuse you guys. I have no problem slowing down through the HSL construction section. I was referring to?the section further down towards the Oxley floating restaurant.?Are they making people walk now that BCC is?widening that bit? Regards, Anthnoy ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: "Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au" To: kim@teegee.com.au Cc: BikeQld ; bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 9 April, 2009 9:40:43 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? My understanding of it is they are there for the safety of the workers on the site. ?Blatant disregard shown by a number of cyclists riding through the area has resulted in the injury of several workers. ?I believe there have already been at least five (avoidable) incidents. The stretch of path we are talking about is in total no more than 400 metres... yet some users [cyclists] just cannot allow themselves to sacrifice 30 seconds of their time to slow down.... Does this sound familiar to the issues put forward by cyclists against 'cagers' on the roads? B'gards. ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ kim Sent by: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au 09/04/2009 09:07 AM ?Please consider the environment before printing this email To BikeQld cc Subject Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? Hi Anthony, I am not certain of just what the Police were there to do. They were just leaning on the fence looking at the bikeway and talking to each other when I saw them. PeteW mentioned in an earlier post that they had nabbed a cyclist for using a mobile while riding. Perhaps it was just a 'hassle cyclists' initiative during bike week. If they are engaged by BCC then BCC may be able to say why they have got them there, they do that on many road jobs if it is deemed necessary. Perhaps one or some of the traffic controllers have been hassled in some way, there was an article in the paper recently about how the traffic controllers union is not happy with some safety and employment issues. I think tho, that the traffic controllers were partly to blame for some of the heated conflict during the sewer pipe epic works there last time with their lack of understanding of the rules and their own authority. I am not sure of how well the HSL related controllers have been doing their job but I have not had any grief with them. I have not been down that way for a few days but I am pretty sure that there is no requirement to dismount yet and I don't think the bypass section will have been opened yet as it seemed to have a lot of building to be done when I last saw it last. kim Anthony Lee wrote: Hi Kim, So are they making cyclists walk then? I have been on standby and so I have been driving the standby car and so haven't even rode on the Coro Drive pretend bikeway. How bad is it? I have idiots at work who reckon bicycle should have registration (again). I will pay for my registration the day that they give us descent cycling facilities! ? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 8 April, 2009 9:14:44 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? I was talking today to the Central Traffic Branch of the QPS about the lack of compliance with the 40kph zone through the HSL work site on Coro Drv and I mentioned that I had seen two police officers and two police cars parked on the footpath there and that they were paying attention to the cyclists on the bikeway totally oblivious to the speeding car traffic behind them. He said he thought the BCC was paying for those two officers? to police the bikeway. If that was/is the case, I think that is a bit of an overkill in light of the car traffic problems there. Probably comes out of that massive cycle budget too. Peter Whittle wrote: The traffic controllers are the problem, standing there waving and frowning. The path there is no narrower than elsewhere, and people manage it just fine. Christ, why haven't we got traffic control on the footpaths of George St? Pissants. Oh well, I'll just use Highgate Hill from now on. Speaking of the 'blitz', I pulled over this morning to take a phone call. As I did that, a rider went past, no hands, chatting away on his phone and I thought, I could be quick like him! I finished my call and went around the corner, and there he was, with cops writing out a ticket. My lucky day, but not his :D Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2009 11:05 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: ? Did anyone noticed that they are building a raised platform on Coro Drive? ? ? ________________________________ Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now.. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090408/c8dba76b/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Wed Apr 8 19:28:07 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Wed Apr 8 19:31:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49DD4117.6020009@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/78710fe1/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 8 20:12:01 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 8 20:12:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <49DD4117.6020009@teegee.com.au> References: <49DD4117.6020009@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <20090409011200.QPWN18710.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> It seems to be futile trying to get government and/or consultant support for cyclists, but assuming at least some of the "lurkers" on this site are either government or contractor/consultant employed, it can be nothing other than deliberate "policy" to decide NOT to provide at least minimum space and layouts for relatively long term and/or distance "temporary" diversions at projects like these .. and clearly the government agencies esp QT have no intention of setting a policy that requires such provision. Lets face it ... the list of problem projects over recent years is endless. Indeed my guess is that there has not been one project that HAS provided the minimum space AND layout complying with the "code" requirements ... noting of course that these people know there is NO code ...! Anyone willing to name even one example of good temporary works that do/did comply? The speed thing is easy ... but won't work to solve conflicts if there is no space and/or poor layout. These are BCC projects along Coro Drive ... ask the Lord Mayor why he is promoting himself with the $100m bike paths but won't comply with the standards, Sadly there does not seem to be much point in reminding everyone that for example, the Dutch design guide has a chapter on temporary provision ... and it is on the basis that cyclists will be able to cycle albeit usually on minimum complying facilities ... which obviously require tolerance and responsibility from all parties. In some cases where it is an option (as on Coro Drive), an adjacent road lane will be closed to provide the temporary diversion ... imagine that ... but then that is about the width required ... so why not? So what is a minimum width? At least 2400 and probably closer to 3000 if enclosed by barriers, fences, walls, or similar. As for cycling on the road (which I encourage of course), the problem on Coro Drive (and city wide) is the lack of complying access to/from road and path ... another BCC "policy" designed to discourage use of the roads and thus to encourage conflict between cyclists and between cyclists and peds. Also the inability for police to enforce the speed limit ... but if it extended further (and/or provision for enforcement was required as part of the project as its a WH&S issue for the police as well as legal constraints), then perhaps cyclists could help the traffic to travel slower ... maybe even get used to 40km/h? Why not? MY.............................. At 10:28 AM 9/04/2009, kim wrote: >Hi Ken, I think you will also find that there were more than 5 >accidents/incidents in the past which could be blamed on the safety >layout of the site. There are many blatant examples of where the >safety and design manuals have not been followed. I do believe it is >a mix of faults down there. My gripe was that all the effort seemed >to be directed at controlling the cyclists. Why are police or >BCC resources not directed to enforcing the 40kph zone on the >road? Are the 'Single File' directives of any legal significance? >Are pedestrians being targeted as well? The BCC seems bent on >maintaining the fast flow for traffic to win a few points from the >motorists but does not regard the cycle traffic as needing a smooth >flow, far from it. Will the BCC direct pedestrian traffic to use the >footpath when the narrow bypass opens or will cyclists be encouraged >to use the road? I am all for addressing the big picture rather than >just singling out cyclists for enforcement. > >kim > >Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au wrote: >> >>My understanding of it is they are there for the safety of the >>workers on the site. Blatant disregard shown by a number of >>cyclists riding through the area has resulted in the injury of >>several workers. I believe there have already been at least five >>(avoidable) incidents. >> >>The stretch of path we are talking about is in total no more than >>400 metres... yet some users [cyclists] just cannot allow >>themselves to sacrifice 30 seconds of their time to slow down.... >>Does this sound familiar to the issues put forward by cyclists >>against 'cagers' on the roads? >> >>B'gards. >>______________________________________ >>Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au >>______________________________________ >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.48/2048 - Release Date: >04/08/09 19:02:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/9144f859/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 8 20:14:23 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 8 20:14:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in CBD Message-ID: <20090409011422.QVPD1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/articles/lord-mayor-puts-brakes-on-cbd-speed.html From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 8 20:31:13 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 8 20:31:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <20090409011200.QPWN18710.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <49DD4117.6020009@teegee.com.au> <20090409011200.QPWN18710.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <002301c9b8b2$df4db0f0$9de912d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I agree with Michael on standards and Kim on the emphasis of enforcement. Compare the situation with the path downriver, where ferry stops require peds to cross the bike path. I often think how the peds must hate the crossing and the interaction with cyclists, but we all seem to manage without crashing into each other. How is this any different to what should be happening at the HSL works, if well-designed? Instead of being able to exercise our own rather substantial ability to solve spatial problems (demonstrated), we need a WHS-mandated employment relief program for rather simple blokes (no women seen yet) to earn $500 a week by attempting to control us like kindy kids. Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Thursday, 9 April 2009 11:12 AM To: BikeQld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? It seems to be futile trying to get government and/or consultant support for cyclists, but assuming at least some of the "lurkers" on this site are either government or contractor/consultant employed, it can be nothing other than deliberate "policy" to decide NOT to provide at least minimum space and layouts for relatively long term and/or distance "temporary" diversions at projects like these .. and clearly the government agencies esp QT have no intention of setting a policy that requires such provision. Lets face it ... the list of problem projects over recent years is endless. Indeed my guess is that there has not been one project that HAS provided the minimum space AND layout complying with the "code" requirements ... noting of course that these people know there is NO code ...! Anyone willing to name even one example of good temporary works that do/did comply? The speed thing is easy ... but won't work to solve conflicts if there is no space and/or poor layout. These are BCC projects along Coro Drive ... ask the Lord Mayor why he is promoting himself with the $100m bike paths but won't comply with the standards, Sadly there does not seem to be much point in reminding everyone that for example, the Dutch design guide has a chapter on temporary provision ... and it is on the basis that cyclists will be able to cycle albeit usually on minimum complying facilities ... which obviously require tolerance and responsibility from all parties. In some cases where it is an option (as on Coro Drive), an adjacent road lane will be closed to provide the temporary diversion ... imagine that ... but then that is about the width required ... so why not? So what is a minimum width? At least 2400 and probably closer to 3000 if enclosed by barriers, fences, walls, or similar. As for cycling on the road (which I encourage of course), the problem on Coro Drive (and city wide) is the lack of complying access to/from road and path ... another BCC "policy" designed to discourage use of the roads and thus to encourage conflict between cyclists and between cyclists and peds. Also the inability for police to enforce the speed limit ... but if it extended further (and/or provision for enforcement was required as part of the project as its a WH&S issue for the police as well as legal constraints), then perhaps cyclists could help the traffic to travel slower ... maybe even get used to 40km/h? Why not? MY.............................. At 10:28 AM 9/04/2009, kim wrote: Hi Ken, I think you will also find that there were more than 5 accidents/incidents in the past which could be blamed on the safety layout of the site. There are many blatant examples of where the safety and design manuals have not been followed. I do believe it is a mix of faults down there. My gripe was that all the effort seemed to be directed at controlling the cyclists. Why are police or BCC resources not directed to enforcing the 40kph zone on the road? Are the 'Single File' directives of any legal significance? Are pedestrians being targeted as well? The BCC seems bent on maintaining the fast flow for traffic to win a few points from the motorists but does not regard the cycle traffic as needing a smooth flow, far from it. Will the BCC direct pedestrian traffic to use the footpath when the narrow bypass opens or will cyclists be encouraged to use the road? I am all for addressing the big picture rather than just singling out cyclists for enforcement. kim Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au wrote: My understanding of it is they are there for the safety of the workers on the site. Blatant disregard shown by a number of cyclists riding through the area has resulted in the injury of several workers. I believe there have already been at least five (avoidable) incidents. The stretch of path we are talking about is in total no more than 400 metres... yet some users [cyclists] just cannot allow themselves to sacrifice 30 seconds of their time to slow down.... Does this sound familiar to the issues put forward by cyclists against 'cagers' on the roads? B'gards. ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.48/2048 - Release Date: 04/08/09 19:02:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/6bea85cd/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Wed Apr 8 22:51:41 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Wed Apr 8 22:51:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Walking shoes for Coro drive... again? In-Reply-To: <002301c9b8b2$df4db0f0$9de912d0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: I?m reminded that the current thinking on shared space is to remove all signage and allow users to work it out for themselves. This should be introduced in Brisbane around about the turn of the next century, by which time, of course, the civilized world will have moved on. J. On 9/4/09 11:31 AM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: > I agree with Michael on standards and Kim on the emphasis of enforcement. > Compare the situation with the path downriver, where ferry stops require peds > to cross the bike path. I often think how the peds must hate the crossing and > the interaction with cyclists, but we all seem to manage without crashing into > each other. How is this any different to what should be happening at the HSL > works, if well-designed? Instead of being able to exercise our own rather > substantial ability to solve spatial problems (demonstrated), we need a > WHS-mandated employment relief program for rather simple blokes (no women seen > yet) to earn $500 a week by attempting to control us like kindy kids. > > Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090409/2577d1de/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Apr 13 19:00:43 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Apr 13 19:01:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cyclerides Stage 2 released - you now have access to your own Cyclebook page (fwd) Message-ID: <20090414095926.A1484@singha.lister.id.au> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andy Willis Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:10:08 +1000 Subject: Cylerides Stage 2 released - you now have access to your own Cyclebook page Dear Cycling enthusiast, We are very excited to announce that the next stage of the Cyclerides Website has now been launched. This development has been designed by cyclists for cyclists with the aim of connecting the cycling community like never before, its free to join, all you need to do is register and you will get your very own "Cyclebook Page", then fill out your profile and start inviting your cycling friends to be part of your "peloton". No longer will you need to do the ring around to get a group together for a ride, now all you need to do is post it on your "Cyclebook Page" and it will then show on all your "local peloton" members pages, you even have the option of it going to them as an email too. Cyclebook offers many other ways to connect and communicate with your local and the broader cycling community. A brief introduction on how it works The motivation to develop this concept is predominately the desire to connect the Australian cycling community, to make it easier to find people to ride with, easier to find places to ride anywhere in Australia and to share the knowledge and passion of cycling among like minded people. We hope that what we have developed is something that you as a cyclist will derive great benefit from and it gives you the opportunity to broaden your cycling network and knowledge. Cyclebook, as with all technology, will of course be in a state of constant change and improvement and we welcome your feedback and suggestions as we move forward, no doubt there will also be a few bugs encountered along the way too, so we ask for your patience as we fine tune these. All you need to do to access your Cyclebook Page is register at www.cyclerides.com.au - Join the Australian Cycling Community. We look forward to your involvement in this exciting concept, and we also ask that you invite your friends to join the Cyclerides Community, please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. Yours in cycling, Andy Willis Managing Director Cyclerides Australia Pty Ltd Email - andy@cyclerides.com.au Phone - 02 6499 0646 Mobile - 0408 923 599 www.cyclerides.com.au From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Apr 13 19:19:03 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Apr 13 19:19:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Message-ID: <174980.87324.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am hoping to ride to and from work via Annerley Rd rather Coro Drive tomorrow. The last time I did this, there were some road works from Mater Hospital up to Gladstone road. Have they finished? I have decide whether to ride my roadie or my MTB. Thank you Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090413/d6af8f89/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon Apr 13 19:29:25 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon Apr 13 19:30:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? In-Reply-To: <174980.87324.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <174980.87324.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E5F@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Shall we say, the repairs are half-finished? There are no workers or signs or machinery, and the holes have been filled and tarred, but the surface is rather worse than before (typical and possibly an interim finish). Plenty of other riders on all sorts of bikes use it. P ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2009 10:19 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Hi all, I am hoping to ride to and from work via Annerley Rd rather Coro Drive tomorrow. The last time I did this, there were some road works from Mater Hospital up to Gladstone road. Have they finished? I have decide whether to ride my roadie or my MTB. Thank you Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090414/21bce42c/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Apr 13 19:37:21 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Apr 13 19:37:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E5F@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <174980.87324.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706714E5F@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <835516.94061.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Peter. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Peter Whittle To: Anthony Lee ; BIQ Sent: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009 10:29:25 AM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Shall we say, the repairs are half-finished? There are no workers or signs or machinery, and the holes have been filled and tarred, but the surface is rather worse than before (typical and possibly an interim finish). Plenty of other riders on all sorts of bikes use it. P ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2009 10:19 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Hi all, I am hoping to ride to and from work via Annerley Rd rather Coro Drive tomorrow. The last time I did this, there were some road works from Mater Hospital up to Gladstone road. Have they finished? I have decide whether to ride my roadie or my MTB. Thank you Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now.. The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090413/60ee2bcb/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Mon Apr 13 19:57:22 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Mon Apr 13 19:57:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 99 Bikes bikes Message-ID: <20090414103826.X1484@singha.lister.id.au> Hi all, A friend was recently looking for a new road bike in the low to medium part of the range for basic commuting use and, after a bit of initial shock at the prices of most road bikes around the place, decided a 9990 from 99 Bikes was for him: http://www.99bikes.com/browse/details.asp?ProdID=129787 It seems to be a fair bit cheaper than other bikes that look comparable on paper: 7005 alloy frame, carbon forks, 105 cranks, levers, derailleurs, brakes, cassette & chain, R500 wheels, Vittoria Zaffiro tyres, for about $1200 or $1300 IIRC. Is anybody here familiar with this range of bikes? Any comments on where the money has been saved? Good value for money? Thanks, Ian From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon Apr 13 20:43:40 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon Apr 13 20:43:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycle Network Link Strategy - planning process Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07068B60DC@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Cycle Network Link Strategy http://www.mainroads.qld.gov.au/web/publicCR.nsf/0/F88E65F81E1D86CB4A257581007DED8D?OpenDocument The Department of Main Roads is conducting planning to prioritise future cycle infrastructure needs in the Sunshine Coast and Moreton Bay Regional Council areas (North Coast Region). The key aim of the Cycle Network Link Strategy (CNLS) is to plan for a cohesive and linked cycle network across the region. The strategy will target commuter cyclists and will identify future cycle infrastructure projects on state-controlled roads that will be of most benefit to the greatest number of users. Main Roads has engaged Aurecon (formerly Connell Wagner) to develop the cycle strategy. Work is underway and is expected to be finished within the year. Our objective Main Roads is committed to delivering road corridors that accommodate all transport modes. By incorporating cycle friendly design in road upgrading projects on state-controlled roads, the strategy will involve: * assessing the current cycle network situation to identify any gaps and deficiencies * working with peak cycling bodies and local cycling groups, regional councils and relevant government agencies to discuss cycle needs * prioritising future cycle projects based on agreed criteria * developing a CNLS report outlining results and detailing recommendations. By developing the cycle strategy, communities in the North Coast Region will benefit more than ever from a well organised, interlinked cycle network. Cycle working group To ensure a robust and transparent strategy and to obtain valuable input from the cycling community, Main Roads has established a working group to assist in the development of the CNLS. Main Roads has invited key cycle stakeholders to attend a series of workshops to: * identify cycle network gaps, deficiencies and areas of concern in the Sunshine Coast and Moreton Bay Regional Council areas * prioritise identified gaps and deficiencies based on developed and agreed criteria * deliver a draft strategy report. Representatives from peak cycling bodies, local cycling groups, regional councils and other government agencies have been invited to take part in the workshops. Community engagement Find out more and have your say To assist the project team, please tell us what important commuter cycling issues you think should be considered in workshop discussions. Simply provide your feedback and comments by contacting the project team on the details provided below or contact your local bicycle user group (BUG). Further information Fact sheet: April 2009 (PDF, 547 KB)* Contact Details Freecall: 1800 189 973 (8.30 am to 5.30 pm, Monday to Friday) Fax: (07) 3229 2666 Email: cyclenetwork@rowland.com.au Post: Cycle Network Link Strategy Reply Paid 1430 Brisbane Qld 4001 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090414/2fdfa5cf/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Apr 14 01:30:19 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Apr 14 01:30:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive to Newstead? Message-ID: <620691.60470.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to ride from Coro Drive or the city to Newstead on bike paths or is it a case of having to get on the roads. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090413/b3fd9dfc/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Apr 14 02:10:13 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Apr 14 02:11:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive to Newstead? In-Reply-To: <620691.60470.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <620691.60470.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090414164236.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Anthony, You can get from the Bicentennial Bikeway or the CBD to Newstead using paths and only a few, mostly quiet roads. It's far from direct, though; you essentially follow the river around its loops. >From the botanic gardens get onto the city reach (Eagle St) boardwalk at the bottom of Edward St. Some would say it's as dangerous as plenty of roads, but follow it around to the detour onto Howard St. The detour is signed to keep you on the footpath but I usually hop on the road around to Boundary St, where you get a nice wide path in front of the cliffs near the Story Bridge and onto the floating section of the Riverwalk. You have to go on the road (or footpath) at Merthyr Rd, down Griffith St to Sydney St. Griffith St is not too busy and has BAZs down it. At Sydney St you can get back onto the path along the river through Merthyr Park to the bowls club. From there you have a short (but again fairly bike-friendly) stretch to New Farm Park at Brunswick St. Keep following the river around past the powerhouse. You'll have to leave the river to get to Lamington St for a block, and back down Hollins Crescent and along a path to get back to the river. IIRC there's a sign there explaining that it's too expensive to provide the missing couple of metres (literally) of path along the river because there's an electricity cable crossing there. That path continues back up Merthyr Rd; obviously you can cut straight across from the west side of New Farm if you're willing to cycle on a bit more road. I can't remember if you have to hop on Macquarie St for a couple of hundred metres there, but there's then more path up to Commercial Rd, at which point you have to detour around some boat terminals and the gasworks site along Skyring Tce and Longland St to Ann St and Breakfast Creek Rd. There's path alongside those roads to Waterloo St (or thereabouts), from which you can get to Newstead Tce and I think back on to the river, and then you're in Newstead Park. Sorry I'm a bit fuzzy on the details; perhaps others more familiar with the area can correct me anywhere I went wrong or am out of date. Cheers, Ian On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to ride from Coro > Drive or the city to Newstead on bike paths or is it a case of having to > get on the roads. > > Regards, > Anthony From matt at people.net.au Tue Apr 14 03:59:14 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Tue Apr 14 03:57:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Message-ID: <41001.1239699554@people.net.au> Take the MTB. It's just the bit from Southside Ford (Stanley St?) through to O'Keefe St that is bad but heading up that road on the motorbike the other week just about shook the fillings out of my teeth. On Tue 14/04/09 00:29 , Peter Whittle peter.whittle@qut.edu.au sent: DIV { MARGIN: 0px } Shall we say, the repairs are half-finished? There are no workers or signs or machinery, and the holes have been filled and tarred, but the surface is rather worse than before (typical and possibly an interim finish). Plenty of other riders on all sorts of bikes use it. P ------------------------- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2009 10:19 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Hi all, I am hoping to ride to and from work via Annerley Rd rather Coro Drive tomorrow. The last time I did this, there were some road works from Mater Hospital up to Gladstone road. Have they finished? I have decide whether to ride my roadie or my MTB. Thank you Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ Get it now.. Links: ------ [1] http://au.rd.yahoo.com/search/ie8/mailtagline/* References: <620691.60470.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49E477CB.6030909@ingramtech.com> Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to ride from Coro > Drive or the city to Newstead on > bike paths or is it a case of having to get on the roads. The best way I found was to go to Roma St Parklands, along Gregory Tce to Bowen Bridge Rd (possibly what you do now to get to VPK), cross over and go through the RNA (on road), do a couple of wiggles and drop down Montpelier Rd into the future office location. I haven't ridden it in reverse -- that hill is nasty. Going from New Farm Park to Newstead requires a bit of on-road because the riverside bikeways are not complete, but the roads were civil when I last went through Tenerieffe (sp?). The dodgiest part of the ride is around the Eagle St area because it is very congested. David. -- David Ingram (VK4TDI) To avoid spam trap, send email to dave at ingramtech dot com Brisbane, Queensland, Australia W: http://www.ingramtech.com/ MH: QG62lm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Apr 14 06:49:02 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Apr 14 06:49:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive to Newstead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <629571.83911.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Ken, Peter and Ian. The company I worked for SPARQ (a spin off from Energex and Ergon) is moving close to Newstead so that it can be closed Energex when they move next year. I want to try to encourage staff to ride. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: "Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au" To: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Sent: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009 4:43:10 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Coro Drive to Newstead? This should be of assistance. Not my route map but it is the way I'd go with my kids to Newstead house from Southbank. http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Southbank-Newstead-loop Regards Ken Yeo ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ Anthony Lee Sent by: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au 14/04/2009 04:30 PM Please consider the environment before printing this email To BIQ cc Subject [bikeqld] Coro Drive to Newstead? Hi all, Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to ride from Coro Drive or the city to Newstead on bike paths or is it a case of having to get on the roads. Regards, Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now.._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. 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URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090414/f7a30c9a/attachment-0001.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Apr 14 06:51:28 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Apr 14 06:51:38 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? In-Reply-To: <41001.1239699554@people.net.au> References: <41001.1239699554@people.net.au> Message-ID: <706161.81919.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Matt. Sounds a diabolical plot of your dentist to pay him more :-). Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Matt To: Anthony Lee ; BIQ ; Peter Whittle Sent: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009 6:59:14 PM Subject: Re: RE: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Take the MTB. It's just the bit from Southside Ford (Stanley St?) through to O'Keefe St that is bad but heading up that road on the motorbike the other week just about shook the fillings out of my teeth. On Tue 14/04/09 00:29 , Peter Whittle peter.whittle@qut.edu.au sent: Shall we say, the repairs are half-finished? There are no workers or signs or machinery, and the holes have been filled and tarred, but the surface is rather worse than before (typical and possibly an interim finish). Plenty of other riders on all sorts of bikes use it. P ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2009 10:19 AM To: BIQ Subject: [bikeqld] What is the state of Annerley Road? Hi all, I am hoping to ride to and from work via Annerley Rd rather Coro Drive tomorrow. The last time I did this, there were some road works from Mater Hospital up to Gladstone road. Have they finished? I have decide whether to ride my roadie or my MTB. Thank you Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnQwdTJhBF9zAzIxNDIwMjU2NTkEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzQ0OAR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=11k6t9t1c/**http://downloads.yahoo.com/au/internetexplorer/" target="_blank">Get it now.. Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090414/d67b50df/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Apr 14 21:13:03 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Apr 14 21:13:15 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] A good news bicycle story Message-ID: <890909.23573.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Gee, a 15 year old could do it, what's wrong with me :-). May be he should sell his story to get some money to do a real trip around Australia :-). From the ABC's new site: Missing Brisbane boy rides bike to Sydney A 15-year-old Brisbane boy with Asperger's syndrome who went missing for two weeks has been found in Sydney, after riding his bike more than 950 kilometres down the Pacific Highway. Ethan Johnson of Kingston, south of Brisbane, was discovered at a train station at Merrylands in western Sydney by police on Good Friday. Ethan slept at truck stops, under bridges and ate at fast food restaurants during his six-day, dawn-to-dusk ride to Sydney. His mother Tammy Johnson said Ethan decided to make the trek because he did not get to see enough of the city during a school excursion when he was 12, Ms Johnson said. He was last captured on closed circuit television about 9.20am AEST on March 30, leaving the Robina train station on the Gold Coast. "Because we had the CCTV footage, we knew he was safe and the fact that he kept using his keycard as he went along we knew where to find him when he hit Sydney," Ms Johnson said. "We kept putting a little bit [of money] in his account each day so he could buy food but not too much so he couldn't get too far. "We got him on the morning he took the last bit of money from his account." Ms Johnson said when she was finally reunited with her son, she gave him a big cuddle and he started crying. "However he's quite happy. He just didn't think to tell anyone he was going for a bike ride to Sydney," she said. "He got a bit disappointed because he was found a bit quicker than he thought he would be. He didn't get to explore too far. "He had ventured into the heart of the city but there were too many people so he left the city area - he doesn't like crowded areas." Ethan told his mum it was good to be back home and he would not make the trip again. Asperger's syndrome is a autism-related disorder which inhibits a person's ability to socially interact. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090414/0a78ecfd/attachment.htm From djc at djc.id.au Wed Apr 15 03:53:57 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan Callaghan) Date: Wed Apr 15 03:54:08 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong Message-ID: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> Dear list, I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly stock gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the 2009 model, which is very similar: http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other incidences around here lately: http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ18326QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. Dan C From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Apr 15 08:14:28 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Apr 15 08:15:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will both keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited far far away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know what the statistics for bike theft are around here (for any definition of "around here") but the search results on the second web site you linked to certainly indicate that Toowong currently has the bike theft market cornered. Did the police have anything of interest to say about it? For anyone wanting to take some extra steps to secure their bike, Brisbane City Council has recently been promoting their subsidy of microdot packages: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:944947490:pc=PC_5446 It seems that for $30 you get to spray a bunch of personalised microdots over all your valuable stuff. You can get the kits from Council libraries, service centres and, for anybody else in the vicinity of Toowong, the upcoming Green blahblah at Perrin Park: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:CITY_SMART::pc=PC_3223 The police are still recommending engraving (and lending engravers for free): http://www.police.qld.gov.au/services/property/bikes.htm A lot of cyclists would probably be more reluctant to go messing up their valuable bikes with engraving than with microdots, but at least it's a clearer deterrent - simple and effective. Best of luck, Ian On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, Dan Callaghan wrote: > Dear list, > > I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now > that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been > nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly stock > gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the 2009 > model, which is very similar: > > http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg > > I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've > never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one > about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. > > I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other incidences > around here lately: > > http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ18326QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue > > but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. > > Dan C > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Apr 15 15:47:09 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 15 15:47:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bicycles as part of a sustainable transport system Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07068B660E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> The linked article comes from an organisation called the The Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP)-Asia, which is a partnership between the German Technical Cooperation (GTZ), the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), CITYNET and the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (UNESCAP) which aims to help developing world cities achieve their sustainable transport goals, through the dissemination of information about international experience and targeted work with particular cities. It would be interesting to see how Brisbane measures up on what differentiates a "developing city". The author means a city in a less developed country, but I wonder if Brisbane, as it (very tentatively) embarks on increasing the use of bicycles in transport, including in the CBD, faces different challenges than, say, Bangkok. Anyway, happy reading, if it interests you. http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=15&Itemid=48&lang=uk Bicycles as part of a sustainable transport system By Carlos F. Pardo, Project Coordinator, Sustainable Urban Transport Project In transport, many modes have been defined as "the most appropriate" or "the most efficient". After many years of debate, academics and practitioners of sustainable urban transport have found that there is not a "most" sustainable, appropriate or efficient mode of transport, the truth is that what should be sustainable is the transport system, where various modes play a key role. Predominantly, public transport, walking and bicycles are the most favourable components of such a system. This brief article will discuss why bicycles are one of these modes. Read more... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090416/e801d66c/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 15 16:35:18 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 15 16:35:25 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <000001c9be12$13450930$39cf1b90$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Hey thanks for that, Ian. Never heard the council were doing the microdots. I'm onto that! Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Wednesday, 15 April 2009 11:14 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will both keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited far far away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know what the statistics for bike theft are around here (for any definition of "around here") but the search results on the second web site you linked to certainly indicate that Toowong currently has the bike theft market cornered. Did the police have anything of interest to say about it? For anyone wanting to take some extra steps to secure their bike, Brisbane City Council has recently been promoting their subsidy of microdot packages: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:944947490:pc=PC_5446 It seems that for $30 you get to spray a bunch of personalised microdots over all your valuable stuff. You can get the kits from Council libraries, service centres and, for anybody else in the vicinity of Toowong, the upcoming Green blahblah at Perrin Park: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:CITY_SMART::pc=PC_3223 The police are still recommending engraving (and lending engravers for free): http://www.police.qld.gov.au/services/property/bikes.htm A lot of cyclists would probably be more reluctant to go messing up their valuable bikes with engraving than with microdots, but at least it's a clearer deterrent - simple and effective. Best of luck, Ian On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, Dan Callaghan wrote: > Dear list, > > I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now > that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been > nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly stock > gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the 2009 > model, which is very similar: > > http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg > > I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've > never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one > about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. > > I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other incidences > around here lately: > > http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ183 26QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue > > but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. > > Dan C > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From cameraperson at bigpond.com Wed Apr 15 19:48:32 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Wed Apr 15 19:48:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Coro Drive pathway Message-ID: <13281167.499.1239842912401.JavaMail.prodapps@nschwweba02-app> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090416/661b5ba2/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 15 21:11:19 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 15 21:11:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090416021124.ELVG13025.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> For those who keep bikes or other valuables in car parks or garages, .... It is also worth noting that people with remote controls for garage or carpark entry security doors are not waiting to maintain security until the door is closed. It appears this is habitual behaviour but may also be related to the design and/or location specifics. The person opening the gate simply heads off after getting out ... leaving the gate effectively open and not under surveillance ... so in goes the "perp" to help himself to whatever is there ... maybe even preventing the gate from shutting. Bikes are obviously a potential target. The problem is occurring in the Toowong area and elsewhere ... a solution appears to be waiting and watching whenever the gate is even partly open ... a message worth passing on to others using shared carparks and garages. MY.............................. At 11:14 PM 15/04/2009, Ian Lister wrote: >Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will >both keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited >far far away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know >what the statistics for bike theft are around here (for any >definition of "around here") but the search results on the second >web site you linked to certainly indicate that Toowong currently has >the bike theft market cornered. Did the police have anything of >interest to say about it? > >For anyone wanting to take some extra steps to secure their bike, >Brisbane City Council has recently been promoting their subsidy of >microdot packages: > > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:944947490:pc=PC_5446 > >It seems that for $30 you get to spray a bunch of personalised >microdots over all your valuable stuff. You can get the kits from >Council libraries, service centres and, for anybody else in the >vicinity of Toowong, the upcoming Green blahblah at Perrin Park: > > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:CITY_SMART::pc=PC_3223 > >The police are still recommending engraving (and lending engravers for free): > > http://www.police.qld.gov.au/services/property/bikes.htm > >A lot of cyclists would probably be more reluctant to go messing up >their valuable bikes with engraving than with microdots, but at >least it's a clearer deterrent - simple and effective. > >Best of luck, > >Ian > >On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, Dan Callaghan wrote: >>Dear list, >> >>I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now >>that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been >>nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly stock >>gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the 2009 >>model, which is very similar: >> >>http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg >> >>I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've >>never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one >>about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. >> >>I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other incidences >>around here lately: >> >>http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ18326QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue >> >>but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. >> >>Dan C >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2061 - Release Date: >04/15/09 19:52:00 From matt at people.net.au Thu Apr 16 00:33:06 2009 From: matt at people.net.au (Matt) Date: Thu Apr 16 00:31:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong Message-ID: <11894.1239859986@people.net.au> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }Not to mention that you can also buy kits (don't know if Jaycar still do them) where you can broadcast varying frequencies. What this does is you can small through the frequencies until you find a garage door that opens (particularly the older automatic doors). People I know used to play this "game" where they'd drive down a street until they saw people using an electric garage door opener and then scan through the frequencies until they found one that worked. Person would close door - they would open it / Person would open door - they would close it. A childish game but I suppose it kept them away from drugs. On Thu 16/04/09 02:11 , Michael Yeates michael@yeatesit.biz sent: For those who keep bikes or other valuables in car parks or garages, .... It is also worth noting that people with remote controls for garage or carpark entry security doors are not waiting to maintain security until the door is closed. It appears this is habitual behaviour but may also be related to the design and/or location specifics. The person opening the gate simply heads off after getting out ... leaving the gate effectively open and not under surveillance ... so in goes the "perp" to help himself to whatever is there ... maybe even preventing the gate from shutting. Bikes are obviously a potential target. The problem is occurring in the Toowong area and elsewhere ... a solution appears to be waiting and watching whenever the gate is even partly open ... a message worth passing on to others using shared carparks and garages. MY.............................. At 11:14 PM 15/04/2009, Ian Lister wrote: >Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will >both keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited >far far away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know >what the statistics for bike theft are around here (for any >definition of "around here") but the search results on the second >web site you linked to certainly indicate that Toowong currently has >the bike theft market cornered. Did the police have anything of >interest to say about it? > >For anyone wanting to take some extra steps to secure their bike, >Brisbane City Council has recently been promoting their subsidy of >microdot packages: > > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:944947490:pc=PC_5446 > >It seems that for $30 you get to spray a bunch of personalised >microdots over all your valuable stuff. You can get the kits from >Council libraries, service centres and, for anybody else in the >vicinity of Toowong, the upcoming Green blahblah at Perrin Park: > > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:CITY_SMART::pc=PC_3223 > >The police are still recommending engraving (and lending engravers for free): > > http://www.police.qld.gov.au/services/property/bikes.htm > >A lot of cyclists would probably be more reluctant to go messing up >their valuable bikes with engraving than with microdots, but at >least it's a clearer deterrent - simple and effective. > >Best of luck, > >Ian > >On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, Dan Callaghan wrote: >>Dear list, >> >>I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now >>that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been >>nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly stock >>gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the 2009 >>model, which is very similar: >> >>http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg >> >>I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've >>never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one >>about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. >> >>I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other incidences >>around here lately: >> >>http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ18326QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue >> >>but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. >> >>Dan C >> >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >> >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list > >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2061 - Release Date: >04/15/09 19:52:00 _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Links: ------ [3] http://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090416/0a978672/attachment-0001.htm From djc at djc.id.au Thu Apr 16 05:25:11 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan Callaghan) Date: Thu Apr 16 05:25:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> Ian Lister wrote: > Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will both > keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited far far > away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know what the > statistics for bike theft are around here (for any definition of "around > here") but the search results on the second web site you linked to > certainly indicate that Toowong currently has the bike theft market > cornered. Did the police have anything of interest to say about it? Went down to the Indro cop shop this evening after work to report it. The officer behind the desk was helpful enough, and was happy to file the report, but her opinion seemed to be that it was essentially a waste of time. I foolishly never made a record of the serial number (I guess it's obvious I am .. or rather, was .. a first-time bike owner!) so she said without that there is very little they can do. If it's palmed off as-is to a second-hand shop, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to identify it, considering the pedals and other bits and pieces I had on it. (I've heard the Cash Converters in the Valley is pretty notorious, will have a look in there on the weekend.) But she pointed out that I'm not likely to find a cop willing to testify to a magistrate based purely on me saying "that's definitely it", so chances of recovery are pretty much zilch. I also mentioned the coincidental Gumtree postings in Toowong, but she said they get a bike reported stolen every few days, which is not so surprising I guess. So now I know to record the serial number of my next bike, once I've saved up enough to replace it. And I'll have to find something I can chain it to in the garage I suppose. The microdots sound like a worthwhile idea as well. All in all, a (very expensive) lesson learnt! Dan C From j at jamver.id.au Thu Apr 16 05:40:45 2009 From: j at jamver.id.au (James Lever) Date: Thu Apr 16 05:41:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> On 16/04/2009, at 8:25 PM, Dan Callaghan wrote: > Went down to the Indro cop shop this evening after work to report > it. The > officer behind the desk was helpful enough, and was happy to file the > report, but her opinion seemed to be that it was essentially a waste > of > time. I foolishly never made a record of the serial number (I guess > it's > obvious I am .. or rather, was .. a first-time bike owner!) so she > said > without that there is very little they can do. This is something the bike shop you bought it from should be able to help you with. I would call them and ask if they can look it up in their records. cheers, James From djc at djc.id.au Thu Apr 16 05:48:07 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan Callaghan) Date: Thu Apr 16 05:48:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> Message-ID: <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> James Lever wrote: >> Went down to the Indro cop shop this evening after work to report it. The >> officer behind the desk was helpful enough, and was happy to file the >> report, but her opinion seemed to be that it was essentially a waste of >> time. I foolishly never made a record of the serial number (I guess it's >> obvious I am .. or rather, was .. a first-time bike owner!) so she said >> without that there is very little they can do. > > This is something the bike shop you bought it from should be able to > help you with. I would call them and ask if they can look it up in > their records. I would have thought so too, but I checked this with them yesterday and they don't record serial numbers for any bikes they sell. :-( Dan C From j at jamver.id.au Thu Apr 16 05:51:25 2009 From: j at jamver.id.au (James Lever) Date: Thu Apr 16 05:51:31 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> Message-ID: On 16/04/2009, at 8:48 PM, Dan Callaghan wrote: > I would have thought so too, but I checked this with them yesterday > and > they don't record serial numbers for any bikes they sell. :-( So I'm guessing they won't be getting any repeat business from you. What was the company? cheers, James From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Apr 16 07:31:25 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Apr 16 07:31:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <20090416123123.TKQE16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> There is another aspect to all this ... and that is the state regulations/act that requires secondhand dealers to confirm title/ownership BEFORE purchasing secondhand items. This is supposed top reduce/prevent "fencing" of stolen property knowingly or otherwise. Its a bit surprising then to discover the police seem to be not very supportive of the success of that aim ... ;-) And as for the shop where you bought it, how would they do their stock control etc without recording of stock reference numbers? MY ................... At 08:48 PM 16/04/2009, Dan Callaghan wrote: >James Lever wrote: > >> Went down to the Indro cop shop this evening after work to report it. The > >> officer behind the desk was helpful enough, and was happy to file the > >> report, but her opinion seemed to be that it was essentially a waste of > >> time. I foolishly never made a record of the serial number (I guess it's > >> obvious I am .. or rather, was .. a first-time bike owner!) so she said > >> without that there is very little they can do. > > > > This is something the bike shop you bought it from should be able to > > help you with. I would call them and ask if they can look it up in > > their records. > >I would have thought so too, but I checked this with them yesterday and >they don't record serial numbers for any bikes they sell. :-( > >Dan C > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2061 - Release Date: >04/15/09 19:52:00 From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Thu Apr 16 15:51:25 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Thu Apr 16 15:51:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <20ABD04B-F08D-47EE-9D65-BA2FB9452E6B@ozemail.com.au> I have a mate that had his bike stolen a couple of months ago. He said the police said the best place to look was Cash Converters in the Valley. Could be worth a trip in. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au On 15/04/2009, at 6:53 PM, Dan Callaghan wrote: > Dear list, > > I went down to my garage this morning to hop on my bike to work (now > that the weather has finally cleared!) only to discover it has been > nicked. It was a red 2008-model Trek 7.3FX flat-bar roadie, mostly > stock > gear but with Shimano one-sided SPD pedals. Here is a photo of the > 2009 > model, which is very similar: > > http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2009/xl/73fx_candyred.jpg > > I understand this colour/model combination is fairly uncommon, I've > never noticed any others around Brisbane. If you do happen to see one > about, I'd be very keen to hear about it. > > I live in the Toowong area, I saw there has been a few other > incidences > around here lately: > > http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-bike-Community-lost-and-found-W0QQCatIdZ18326QQKeywordZbikeQQisSearchFormZtrue > > but then I suppose it's really a perpetual problem .. > > Dan C > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From djc at djc.id.au Thu Apr 16 17:11:44 2009 From: djc at djc.id.au (Dan C) Date: Thu Apr 16 17:11:55 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> <80E6A246-B064-45BB-99B2-5FA297660C3F@jamver.id.au> <49E70CE7.7080606@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <49E7AD20.3080803@djc.id.au> James Lever wrote: >> I would have thought so too, but I checked this with them yesterday and >> they don't record serial numbers for any bikes they sell. :-( > > So I'm guessing they won't be getting any repeat business from you. > > What was the company? It was the bike shop at UQ. I don't want to bag them out though, since they have otherwise been very helpful (and I can hardly fault them for not recording the serial number if I didn't either :-P). They will probably still be the first place I go, when I eventually get a new bike. Dan C From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Apr 16 17:16:18 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Apr 16 17:16:29 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> Message-ID: <240748.85012.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Dan, Ten years ago I got my black cannondale stolen and actually got it back a year later. So there is hope! I only got it back because one of the mechanic at the bikeshop (the old Bikestyle) saw it on a bunch ride still with the Bikestyle logo on it! From that moment on, I said to myself that I would record the serial number of the next bike I buy. The easiest way is just grab a digital camera and photograph where the serial number is. Get a few pictures of the bike too. Anthony Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Dan Callaghan To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Thursday, 16 April, 2009 8:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong Ian Lister wrote: > Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about that, Dan. I'm in Toowong and will both > keep an eye out for your bike (in case it hasn't been spirited far far > away) and be sure to keep mine well secured. I don't know what the > statistics for bike theft are around here (for any definition of "around > here") but the search results on the second web site you linked to > certainly indicate that Toowong currently has the bike theft market > cornered. Did the police have anything of interest to say about it? Went down to the Indro cop shop this evening after work to report it. The officer behind the desk was helpful enough, and was happy to file the report, but her opinion seemed to be that it was essentially a waste of time. I foolishly never made a record of the serial number (I guess it's obvious I am .. or rather, was .. a first-time bike owner!) so she said without that there is very little they can do. If it's palmed off as-is to a second-hand shop, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to identify it, considering the pedals and other bits and pieces I had on it. (I've heard the Cash Converters in the Valley is pretty notorious, will have a look in there on the weekend.) But she pointed out that I'm not likely to find a cop willing to testify to a magistrate based purely on me saying "that's definitely it", so chances of recovery are pretty much zilch. I also mentioned the coincidental Gumtree postings in Toowong, but she said they get a bike reported stolen every few days, which is not so surprising I guess. So now I know to record the serial number of my next bike, once I've saved up enough to replace it. And I'll have to find something I can chain it to in the garage I suppose. The microdots sound like a worthwhile idea as well. All in all, a (very expensive) lesson learnt! Dan C _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090416/74b0fdec/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Apr 16 18:02:34 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Apr 16 18:03:12 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090417085911.J1484@singha.lister.id.au> See below for an article on this enforcement in this week's Westside News (p.6), also at: http://westside-news.whereilive.com.au/news/story/no-more-free-ride/ Ian =====8<----- No more free ride POLICE have warned cyclists they face a $60 fine for riding across pedestrian crossings. Police conducted a recent blitz on the issue, warning and fining riders in the Moggill area. Current road rules state bicycle riders must not ride across a road, or a part of a road, on a children's crossing or a pedestrian crossing unless there are green bicycle crossing lights. Member for Moggill Bruce Flegg said many cyclists were not aware they had to dismount at a crossing. Dr Flegg said the crossings at Pullenvale Rd and Moggill Rd were not heavily used by pedestrians. He asked Main Roads to look at installing lights for cyclists to continue riding across the crossing. A Main Roads spokeswoman said the Department of Transport and Main Roads were currently assessing options to upgrade facilities on the bicycle network along Moggill Rd at the Western Freeway. "Funding and timeliness for these works will be determined once the assessment is complete and a suitable option is prioritised," she said. Dr Flegg said the number of cyclists in the area was "booming". "There's about 2000 cyclists using the Western Freeway a day," Dr Flegg said. From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Apr 16 18:27:51 2009 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Apr 16 18:28:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Message-ID: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow! This is somewhere between a 4 and 7 times increase in cyclist numbers over the last couple of years. Unless the great majority of cyclists ride outside peak hours. "Dr Flegg said the number of cyclists in the area was "booming". "There's about 2000 cyclists using the Western Freeway a day," Dr Flegg said." Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 16 19:13:00 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Apr 16 19:13:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. The main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to walk in cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! This seems to be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting around to changing the crossings to make it legal. So the police in enforcing it are just being pricks - they are quite able to make a policy decision not to enforce a particular law, and they do this all the time. I wonder if they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ is going to take up the cudgels on this - please Ben? Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of mich rolling Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 9:28 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Wow! This is somewhere between a 4 and 7 times increase in cyclist numbers over the last couple of years. Unless the great majority of cyclists ride outside peak hours. "Dr Flegg said the number of cyclists in the area was "booming". "There's about 2000 cyclists using the Western Freeway a day," Dr Flegg said." Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Thu Apr 16 19:35:12 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Thu Apr 16 19:35:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4BFE58DF-7368-4660-B718-35D1232860DD@ozemail.com.au> The cheapest solution is to make a small sign that states" Cyclists do not need to dismount at this crossing. Proceed slowly." I regularly cross at the Moggill Rd - Western Freeway. Today I dismounted and walked across, however in bike shoes I didn't make it across before the little man turned red. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au On 17/04/2009, at 10:13 AM, Peter Whittle wrote: > It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. > The main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to > walk in cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! > This seems to be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting > around to changing the crossings to make it legal. So the police in > enforcing it are just being pricks - they are quite able to make a > policy decision not to enforce a particular law, and they do this > all the time. I wonder if they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ > is going to take up the cudgels on this - please Ben? > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > ] On Behalf Of mich rolling > Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 9:28 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > > > Wow! This is somewhere between a 4 and 7 times increase in cyclist > numbers over the last couple of years. Unless the great majority of > cyclists ride outside peak hours. > > "Dr Flegg said the number of cyclists in the area was "booming". > > "There's about 2000 cyclists using the Western Freeway a day," Dr > Flegg > said." > > > > Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet > Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090417/32a13221/attachment-0001.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Thu Apr 16 19:52:03 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Thu Apr 16 19:52:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417085911.J1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: Some background. Years ago, when I was on the State Cycle Committee, there was a determined move to have the law changed so that cyclists could cycle across crossings, subject to blah blah about doing so responsibly. The argument was unassailable, the evidence gathered strong, no substantial reasons in opposition, a lay-down misere for change. All the cycle relevant people on the SCC, including all the QT people who were driving this, were strongly in favour, given that the law was generally ignored by all, that there was a zero reporting of incidents or injury involving cycling across a ped crossing. The opposition was led by deadheads from Education - the crossing supervisors had a say in it somehow - and dopey bureaucrats from head office, and the safety-at-any-cost crowd of Ambo people, who were unlikely to be satisfied by any regulation short of keeping everyone in bed for 24 hrs/day. The cops who attended the SCC were either bureaucrats who only said they couldn't say anything, or really dopey uniform PC Plods who naturally opposed any change of anything on principle. Naturally, the dopes and deadheads opinions meant that nothing went to the Minister. Of course, that was when the SCC fell into the hands of the dreariest bureaucrat in the service, a man so dull that he doesn't have a name, but he's still in charge of the smart travel centre. That's the way of this world, I guess, J. On 17/4/09 9:02 AM, "Ian Lister" wrote: > See below for an article on this enforcement in this week's Westside > News (p.6), also at: > > http://westside-news.whereilive.com.au/news/story/no-more-free-ride/ > > Ian > > =====8<----- > No more free ride > > POLICE have warned cyclists they face a $60 fine for riding across > pedestrian crossings. > > Police conducted a recent blitz on the issue, warning and fining riders in > the Moggill area. > > Current road rules state bicycle riders must not ride across a road, or a > part of a road, on a children's crossing or a pedestrian crossing unless > there are green bicycle crossing lights. > > Member for Moggill Bruce Flegg said many cyclists were not aware they had > to dismount at a crossing. > > Dr Flegg said the crossings at Pullenvale Rd and Moggill Rd were not > heavily used by pedestrians. > > He asked Main Roads to look at installing lights for cyclists to continue > riding across the crossing. > > A Main Roads spokeswoman said the Department of Transport and Main Roads > were currently assessing options to upgrade facilities on the bicycle > network along Moggill Rd at the Western Freeway. > > "Funding and timeliness for these works will be determined once the > assessment is complete and a suitable option is prioritised," she said. > > Dr Flegg said the number of cyclists in the area was "booming". > > "There's about 2000 cyclists using the Western Freeway a day," Dr Flegg > said. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Apr 16 20:06:18 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Apr 16 20:08:16 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Peter, Getting Main Roads to "upgrade" one intersection or getting the police to ignore the law is just a band-aid that ignores the real problem. The real problem is the law. On most crossings it's perfectly safe for all concerned to allow cycling across. If there are some crossings where that is really not the case they should be the exception, not the rule. A sign saying "cyclists must dismount" (ugh) on such an intersection is surely far more sensible than needing expensive cycle-specific lights at each intersection where it should be permissible to cycle across (in terms of cost effectiveness for the desired result, ignoring whether we really want such signs at all). The only real issue is discourteous cyclists causing a hassle for pedestrians. It's not really any different from the same situation on a footpath (which is typically much narrower than a crossing) or a shared path. Existing or slightly modified laws about keeping left, unreasonable obstruction, causing a traffic hazard, etc should be entirely appropriate for enforcing safe behaviour on crossings. Of course there will always be some cyclists who ignore the law and behave discourteously or dangerously, but those people are almost certainly already cycling across the crossings anyway. Of course, law change is difficult and takes a long time, so pursuing the band-aids in the meantime is still worthwhile (particularly as it may increase pressure for law changes), but we should really be aiming for the big goal and not the little ones. Cheers, Ian On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Peter Whittle wrote: > It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. The > main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to walk in > cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! This seems to > be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting around to changing > the crossings to make it legal. So the police in enforcing it are just > being pricks - they are quite able to make a policy decision not to > enforce a particular law, and they do this all the time. I wonder if > they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ is going to take up the cudgels > on this - please Ben? > > Pete From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Thu Apr 16 21:16:39 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Apr 16 21:17:06 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07068B6A8D@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Ian I understand the intersection in question is the bikeway crossing across Mogill Road. There is no footpath, so pedestrians are not (or should not be) an issue (and I have rarely encountered them). [Even on a pedestrian crossing, I find peds more of a problem than cyclists, due to their brownian movement (semi-random, like cows or tiny particles, take your pick).] On this particular crossing, rather than deciding to enforce the law after so long, the police could simply continue to be pragmatic. End of issue. ... So it's a bandaid. Who cares? Not in Qld - that's how business is done ... Can't fix everything today. As to the police, there's a lot more risk in red-light-runners at the top of the Green Bridge - so why did they pick this particular "non-compliance" to blitz? Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 11:06 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Hi Peter, Getting Main Roads to "upgrade" one intersection or getting the police to ignore the law is just a band-aid that ignores the real problem. The real problem is the law. On most crossings it's perfectly safe for all concerned to allow cycling across. If there are some crossings where that is really not the case they should be the exception, not the rule. A sign saying "cyclists must dismount" (ugh) on such an intersection is surely far more sensible than needing expensive cycle-specific lights at each intersection where it should be permissible to cycle across (in terms of cost effectiveness for the desired result, ignoring whether we really want such signs at all). The only real issue is discourteous cyclists causing a hassle for pedestrians. It's not really any different from the same situation on a footpath (which is typically much narrower than a crossing) or a shared path. Existing or slightly modified laws about keeping left, unreasonable obstruction, causing a traffic hazard, etc should be entirely appropriate for enforcing safe behaviour on crossings. Of course there will always be some cyclists who ignore the law and behave discourteously or dangerously, but those people are almost certainly already cycling across the crossings anyway. Of course, law change is difficult and takes a long time, so pursuing the band-aids in the meantime is still worthwhile (particularly as it may increase pressure for law changes), but we should really be aiming for the big goal and not the little ones. Cheers, Ian On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Peter Whittle wrote: > It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. The > main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to walk in > cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! This seems to > be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting around to changing > the crossings to make it legal. So the police in enforcing it are just > being pricks - they are quite able to make a policy decision not to > enforce a particular law, and they do this all the time. I wonder if > they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ is going to take up the cudgels > on this - please Ben? > > Pete _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Apr 16 21:48:18 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Apr 16 21:48:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090417024816.ZYEX23905.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Interesting ... First the police have every right to enforce any laws .. indeed not long ago, we had the problem in reverse ... they chose not to enforce laws and look what happened ...! But moving right along ... and hoping the police post-Fitzgerald have too ... surely it is expected they enforce all laws - not some but not others ... or it was until now ...! The REAL problem is none of the following (or is included by implication) but rather it is an ongoing "policy" reluctance to provide any options to cycle on the road. In cycling friendly places, it is VERY common to find that access ramps designed with cyclists in mind are provided prior to and after intersections to allow movement between the path system and the road system and across the road system. Kerb jumpers do this here ... but presumably it is better if the facility is provided ... and with no barriers ie fences etc provided either. So people who want to cross on bike simply leave the path and join the traffic across the intersection then move back to the path ... or stay on the road ... and those who want to make a turn or want to stay on the path network can do so but walk. The problem is really a reluctance to acknowledge cyclists needs ... and while the promotion of that might well have been with QT and the SCC (noting my being the initial BFA rep on the initial period of the SCC) the application and implementation is with MR ... and nothing there has changed aside from some name changes and attractive (but apparently on the evidence to date, almost totally ineffective) role descriptions ...! In practice, introduce cyclists on the road and virtually none of the road designs in Queensland will operate safely aka as intended for motorists ... keep the cyclists on paths and the roads are great ...! But what happens at intersections is ALWAYS the problem ... and therefore MR has simply chosen to ignore it ... with heaps of good reasons and justification no doubt. At the most basic level, it does not need special facilities for cyclists at all ... it simply needs a continuous connected path of travel as expected by motorists ... in this case one that allows cyclists to travel without moving onto the pedestrian crossing ... in which case, all that is needed is a CYCLISTS MUST GIVE WAY TO ALL OTHER TRAFFIC or similar sign eg a GIVE WAY would do ...prior to the cyclist moving from the footpath to the road at what is in effect an intersection. MR really treats cyclists as an unwanted nuisance ... almost none of its "standards" for intersections, road line marking, signage, etc include even the simplest examples of facilities with provision for cyclists ... and so project after project is rolled out using standards that are opposed to cycling provision ... and this can be traced back to the MR "Policy for ... cycling ..." ...! And if you look for the standard designs allowed in Queensland, you will find that the kerb ramps are not designed with cycling in mind ... so that is what gets built. The FIRST and for about 12 years ONLY intersection with cycling crossing included was part of an extensive (never-to-be-repeated) BCC project and even then it was treated as a "special" project ... in around 1993-4-5 ...! With the new super ministry structure, one potential opportunity now presents itself and that is to build on the progress achieved by the former DG for Transport and to pressure the new DG and if ever such a person eventuates, the Minister for both Main Roads AND Transport AND Infrastructure AND anything else relevant to cycling ... whoever that is ... to force MR to include for cycling in ALL its standards AND in ALL its projects ... no matter how big or small ... no matter what the cost or how many cyclists ...! This of course also illustrates that QT is often cited as the project procurer eg with all sorts of projects, but how many of those included cycling provision of any merit given MR had no common standards for the facilities? In other words some 16 years after Part 14 was first published (and probably more than 20 years after deciding there was a need for such a document) and just before it is extinguished to be replaced by supposed inclusion of cycling across a range of replacement AUSTROADS Guidelines, MR should be required to at least try implementing some of the stuff it could have implemented but refused to do so. One example is redesigning crossings and building some "new" C21 models ... which include for cyclists. Not much of this is a high priority for Cap'n Blight I suspect ... despite her athletic prowess, it seems cycling as transport is not up there ... esp with LNP advocacy ...! MY............................. At 11:06 AM 17/04/2009, Ian Lister wrote: >Hi Peter, > >Getting Main Roads to "upgrade" one intersection or getting the >police to ignore the law is just a band-aid that ignores the real >problem. The real problem is the law. > >On most crossings it's perfectly safe for all concerned to allow >cycling across. If there are some crossings where that is really not >the case they should be the exception, not the rule. A sign saying >"cyclists must dismount" (ugh) on such an intersection is surely far >more sensible than needing expensive cycle-specific lights at each >intersection where it should be permissible to cycle across (in >terms of cost effectiveness for the desired result, ignoring whether >we really want such signs at all). > >The only real issue is discourteous cyclists causing a hassle for >pedestrians. It's not really any different from the same situation >on a footpath (which is typically much narrower than a crossing) or >a shared path. Existing or slightly modified laws about keeping >left, unreasonable obstruction, causing a traffic hazard, etc should >be entirely appropriate for enforcing safe behaviour on crossings. >Of course there will always be some cyclists who ignore the law and >behave discourteously or dangerously, but those people are almost >certainly already cycling across the crossings anyway. > >Of course, law change is difficult and takes a long time, so >pursuing the band-aids in the meantime is still worthwhile >(particularly as it may increase pressure for law changes), but we >should really be aiming for the big goal and not the little ones. > >Cheers, > >Ian > >On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Peter Whittle wrote: >>It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. >>The main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to >>walk in cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! >>This seems to be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting >>around to changing the crossings to make it legal. So the police in >>enforcing it are just being pricks - they are quite able to make a >>policy decision not to enforce a particular law, and they do this >>all the time. I wonder if they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ >>is going to take up the cudgels on this - please Ben? >> >>Pete > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.59/2063 - Release Date: >04/16/09 16:38:00 From michael at yeatesit.biz Thu Apr 16 21:54:39 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Thu Apr 16 21:54:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07068B6A8D@QUTEXMBX03.qut. edu.au> References: <974529.75454.qm@web44809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001c9bef1$48c2c6d0$da485470$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> <20090417103829.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE07068B6A8D@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <20090417025433.OJYM15789.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Simple answer to your last question Pete ... different police traffic units ...! There are pedestrians and footpaths there ... however the area is so unfriendly for them and NO access to the obvious desire lines by way of the Bikeway, so like cycling constrained by very poor connectivity. My guess is that Ronan Lee (remember him?) and BQ (but not some of us locals) somewhat secretly tried several times to get MR to change the intersection ... but BQ is somewhat constrained by its apparent tendency to agree with government agencies in public ...! It would be useful for the public historical record of rebuttals by MR if BQ was to put such proposals on its website ... given it apparently claims to represent more cyclists than its members ... ;-) ;-) MY........... At 12:16 PM 17/04/2009, Peter Whittle wrote: > Ian > >I understand the intersection in question is the bikeway crossing >across Mogill Road. There is no footpath, so pedestrians are not (or >should not be) an issue (and I have rarely encountered them). > >[Even on a pedestrian crossing, I find peds more of a problem than >cyclists, due to their brownian movement (semi-random, like cows or >tiny particles, take your pick).] > >On this particular crossing, rather than deciding to enforce the law >after so long, the police could simply continue to be pragmatic. End >of issue. ... So it's a bandaid. Who cares? Not in Qld - that's how >business is done ... Can't fix everything today. > >As to the police, there's a lot more risk in red-light-runners at >the top of the Green Bridge - so why did they pick this particular >"non-compliance" to blitz? > >Pete > >-----Original Message----- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ian Lister >Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 11:06 AM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > >Hi Peter, > >Getting Main Roads to "upgrade" one intersection or getting the police to >ignore the law is just a band-aid that ignores the real problem. The real >problem is the law. > >On most crossings it's perfectly safe for all concerned to allow cycling >across. If there are some crossings where that is really not the case they >should be the exception, not the rule. A sign saying "cyclists must >dismount" (ugh) on such an intersection is surely far more sensible than >needing expensive cycle-specific lights at each intersection where it >should be permissible to cycle across (in terms of cost effectiveness for >the desired result, ignoring whether we really want such signs at all). > >The only real issue is discourteous cyclists causing a hassle for >pedestrians. It's not really any different from the same situation on a >footpath (which is typically much narrower than a crossing) or a shared >path. Existing or slightly modified laws about keeping left, unreasonable >obstruction, causing a traffic hazard, etc should be entirely appropriate >for enforcing safe behaviour on crossings. Of course there will always be >some cyclists who ignore the law and behave discourteously or dangerously, >but those people are almost certainly already cycling across the crossings >anyway. > >Of course, law change is difficult and takes a long time, so pursuing the >band-aids in the meantime is still worthwhile (particularly as it may >increase pressure for law changes), but we should really be aiming for the >big goal and not the little ones. > >Cheers, > >Ian > >On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Peter Whittle wrote: > > It completely sucks that the police should decide to enforce this. The > > main reason cyclists ride across is because it is too hard to walk in > > cleats and hence it safer to ride - nor is it dangerous! This seems to > > be recognised by Main Roads who say they are getting around to changing > > the crossings to make it legal. So the police in enforcing it are just > > being pricks - they are quite able to make a policy decision not to > > enforce a particular law, and they do this all the time. I wonder if > > they have bothered to consult? I hope BQ is going to take up the cudgels > > on this - please Ben? > > > > Pete > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.59/2063 - Release Date: >04/16/09 16:38:00 From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Fri Apr 17 01:05:42 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Fri Apr 17 01:05:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417085911.J1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <20090319092150.L15294@singha.lister.id.au> <20090417085911.J1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <2B7B6AD707884FA881CC239BD582C327@golder.gds> That article rather confirms my suspicion when I first heard about this thing. It's not really likely that police would choose to act here off their own bat. A PITA really. More likely Flegg instituted the whole thing. Those who recall Magub and the Sylvan Rd crossing at Milton Rd might guess why. It goes like this: 1. Polly decides some stuff is needed in their patch, and that they can score some credo by promoting it. 2. But they quickly discover that bureaucrats / engineers in relevant works dept are not interested, especially if bikes or peds are involved. No real way around that. 3. But, believe it or not, polly can still manage to move the plods into action by multiple pestering contacts. Get them to book a few people, preferably with the press in attendance. 4. That leads to some local news coverage for polly. Score 1. 5. Then bureaucrat just might be obliged to reconsider. Especially if Traffic Branch / local press / Minister's office / local groups make a bit of noise. 6. Eventually, something might even get done. Which polly can trumpet (if they're still about). Score 2. All of this came to pass at Sylvan Rd. So make some noise, guys. G. From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Fri Apr 17 01:26:13 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Fri Apr 17 01:26:22 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Message-ID: <58E08D4E-781C-4DEF-A310-146C557638E5@ozemail.com.au> Todays ride took me through the Moggill Rd - Western Freeway intersection as I said in my previous email. I just though of another interesting yet maybe unrelatd event. Today was grass cutting day and as such the mower men ride their vehicles across the said crossings. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au From dhorton at iprimus.com.au Fri Apr 17 08:55:16 2009 From: dhorton at iprimus.com.au (dhorton@iprimus.com.au) Date: Fri Apr 17 08:55:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <2B7B6AD707884FA881CC239BD582C327@golder.gds> Message-ID: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> Do you have anything support for that allegation against Dr Flegg? I find that a bit low. Is anyone making noise outside of this forum, e.g. complaining or just putting an opinion to Main Roads, the local member, Westside News or Police? David >-- Original Message -- >From: "Glen Fergus" >To: "Bikeqld" >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:05:42 +1000 > > >That article rather confirms my suspicion when I first heard >about this thing. It's not really likely that police would >choose to act here off their own bat. A PITA really. More >likely Flegg instituted the whole thing. Those who recall >Magub and the Sylvan Rd crossing at Milton Rd might guess >why. It goes like this: > >1. Polly decides some stuff is needed in their patch, and > that they can score some credo by promoting it. >2. But they quickly discover that bureaucrats / engineers > in relevant works dept are not interested, especially > if bikes or peds are involved. No real way around that. >3. But, believe it or not, polly can still manage to move > the plods into action by multiple pestering contacts. > Get them to book a few people, preferably with the press > in attendance. >4. That leads to some local news coverage for polly. > Score 1. >5. Then bureaucrat just might be obliged to reconsider. > Especially if Traffic Branch / local press / Minister's > office / local groups make a bit of noise. >6. Eventually, something might even get done. Which polly > can trumpet (if they're still about). Score 2. > >All of this came to pass at Sylvan Rd. So make some noise, >guys. > >G. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Apr 17 14:26:26 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Apr 17 14:26:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> Message-ID: <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Wait a minute. Could you explain why that is low? Scapegoating cyclists is not exactly new and besides do the media really care? If anything the media would probably just join Flegg to beat up on cyclists (as per usual). The Westside news has already done it. If Flegg or any other politicians really care about cyclists they would provide descent facilities so that we don't have to break their precious laws. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: "dhorton@iprimus.com.au" To: Glen Fergus Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 17 April, 2009 11:55:16 PM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Do you have anything support for that allegation against Dr Flegg? I find that a bit low. Is anyone making noise outside of this forum, e.g. complaining or just putting an opinion to Main Roads, the local member, Westside News or Police? David >-- Original Message -- >From: "Glen Fergus" >To: "Bikeqld" >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:05:42 +1000 > > >That article rather confirms my suspicion when I first heard >about this thing. It's not really likely that police would >choose to act here off their own bat. A PITA really. More >likely Flegg instituted the whole thing. Those who recall >Magub and the Sylvan Rd crossing at Milton Rd might guess >why. It goes like this: > >1. Polly decides some stuff is needed in their patch, and > that they can score some credo by promoting it. >2. But they quickly discover that bureaucrats / engineers > in relevant works dept are not interested, especially > if bikes or peds are involved. No real way around that. >3. But, believe it or not, polly can still manage to move > the plods into action by multiple pestering contacts. > Get them to book a few people, preferably with the press > in attendance. >4. That leads to some local news coverage for polly. > Score 1. >5. Then bureaucrat just might be obliged to reconsider. > Especially if Traffic Branch / local press / Minister's > office / local groups make a bit of noise. >6. Eventually, something might even get done. Which polly > can trumpet (if they're still about). Score 2. > >All of this came to pass at Sylvan Rd. So make some noise, >guys. > >G. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090417/e9684684/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Apr 17 17:09:54 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Apr 17 17:10:02 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Anthony, It is not at all uncommon for politicians to react to complaints from trusted acquaintances without first checking for other perspectives and in the case of Sylvan Road and Judy Magub, that is exactly what we were told happened. Its rarely if ever first hand or if it is, it is off the record info. For example I was recently told that the "BQ was consulted" excuse is wearing very very thin ...! Now I cannot check that of course but it makes sense as in this example where (we are told) BQ was consulted ... as I mentioned previously ... The problem then is to find out what BQ actually says when it is consulted. So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. I am going to email Dr Flegg. MY................... At 05:26 AM 18/04/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: >Wait a minute. Could you explain why that is low? Scapegoating >cyclists is not exactly new >and besides do the media really care? If anything the media would >probably just join Flegg to >beat up on cyclists (as per usual). The Westside news has already done it. > >If Flegg or any other politicians really care about cyclists they >would provide descent facilities >so that we don't have to break their precious laws. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > >From: "dhorton@iprimus.com.au" >To: Glen Fergus >Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Sent: Friday, 17 April, 2009 11:55:16 PM >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > >Do you have anything support for that allegation against Dr Flegg? >I find that a bit low. > >Is anyone making noise outside of this forum, e.g. complaining or just putting >an opinion to Main Roads, the local member, Westside News or Police? > >David > > >-- Original Message -- > >From: "Glen Fergus" > <gsfergus@optusnet.com.au> > >To: "Bikeqld" <bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au> > >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:05:42 +1000 > > > > > >That article rather confirms my suspicion when I first heard > >about this thing. It's not really likely that police would > >choose to act here off their own bat. A PITA really. More > >likely Flegg instituted the whole thing. Those who recall > >Magub and the Sylvan Rd crossing at Milton Rd might guess > >why. It goes like this: > > > >1. Polly decides some stuff is needed in their patch, and > > that they can score some credo by promoting it. > >2. But they quickly discover that bureaucrats / engineers > > in relevant works dept are not interested, especially > > if bikes or peds are involved. No real way around that. > >3. But, believe it or not, polly can still manage to move > > the plods into action by multiple pestering contacts. > > Get them to book a few people, preferably with the press > > in attendance. > >4. That leads to some local news coverage for polly. > > Score 1. > >5. Then bureaucrat just might be obliged to reconsider. > > Especially if Traffic Branch / local press / Minister's > > office / local groups make a bit of noise. > >6. Eventually, something might even get done. Which polly > > can trumpet (if they're still about). Score 2. > > > >All of this came to pass at Sylvan Rd. So make some noise, > >guys. > > > >G. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >bikeqld mailing list > >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > >http://www.bike > qld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, >Easier. >Get >it now.. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2065 - Release Date: >04/17/09 17:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090418/02065fe9/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Fri Apr 17 17:12:46 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Fri Apr 17 17:13:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] re MP for Moggill Message-ID: <20090417221304.EUGY13025.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> http://moggill.net/hot-issues/13-local-issues/2571-cyclists-beware.html From cameraperson at bigpond.com Fri Apr 17 18:45:45 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Fri Apr 17 18:46:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <32DF8596-DB9C-4663-8853-502A06EB7BDD@bigpond.com> On the good doctor's web site, he has online polls for whether bike signals should be installed on the Moggill Rd crossing and also for whether cyclists should be licensed. Get yourself there now and vote! http://moggill.net/hot-issues/13-local-issues/2571-cyclists-beware.html He also regurgitates the Courier Mail's false claim that Ben Wilson reckons cyclists should be licensed. Mick On 18/04/2009, at 08:09 , Michael Yeates wrote: > Anthony, > > It is not at all uncommon for politicians to react to complaints > from trusted acquaintances without first checking for other > perspectives and in the case of Sylvan Road and Judy Magub, that is > exactly what we were told happened. > > Its rarely if ever first hand or if it is, it is off the record info. > > For example I was recently told that the "BQ was consulted" excuse > is wearing very very thin ...! > > Now I cannot check that of course but it makes sense as in this > example where (we are told) BQ was consulted ... as I mentioned > previously ... > > The problem then is to find out what BQ actually says when it is > consulted. > > So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in > his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and > complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if > Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. > > But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all > conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across > the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in > an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. > > I am going to email Dr Flegg. > > MY................... > > At 05:26 AM 18/04/2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > >> Wait a minute. Could you explain why that is low? Scapegoating >> cyclists is not exactly new >> and besides do the media really care? If anything the media would >> probably just join Flegg to >> beat up on cyclists (as per usual). The Westside news has already >> done it. >> >> If Flegg or any other politicians really care about cyclists they >> would provide descent facilities >> so that we don't have to break their precious laws. >> >> Anthony Lee >> The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >> ........-- __o >> ....-- _ \<,_ >> ........(_) / (_) >> E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au >> >> >> >> From: "dhorton@iprimus.com.au" >> To: Glen Fergus >> Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> Sent: Friday, 17 April, 2009 11:55:16 PM >> Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement >> >> Do you have anything support for that allegation against Dr Flegg? >> I find that a bit low. >> >> Is anyone making noise outside of this forum, e.g. complaining or >> just putting >> an opinion to Main Roads, the local member, Westside News or Police? >> >> David >> >> >-- Original Message -- >> >From: "Glen Fergus" >> >To: "Bikeqld" >> >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement >> >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:05:42 +1000 >> > >> > >> >That article rather confirms my suspicion when I first heard >> >about this thing. It's not really likely that police would >> >choose to act here off their own bat. A PITA really. More >> >likely Flegg instituted the whole thing. Those who recall >> >Magub and the Sylvan Rd crossing at Milton Rd might guess >> >why. It goes like this: >> > >> >1. Polly decides some stuff is needed in their patch, and >> > that they can score some credo by promoting it. >> >2. But they quickly discover that bureaucrats / engineers >> > in relevant works dept are not interested, especially >> > if bikes or peds are involved. No real way around that. >> >3. But, believe it or not, polly can still manage to move >> > the plods into action by multiple pestering contacts. >> > Get them to book a few people, preferably with the press >> > in attendance. >> >4. That leads to some local news coverage for polly. >> > Score 1. >> >5. Then bureaucrat just might be obliged to reconsider. >> > Especially if Traffic Branch / local press / Minister's >> > office / local groups make a bit of noise. >> >6. Eventually, something might even get done. Which polly >> > can trumpet (if they're still about). Score 2. >> > >> >All of this came to pass at Sylvan Rd. So make some noise, >> >guys. >> > >> >G. >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >bikeqld mailing list >> >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> >> The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, >> Easier. Get it now.. >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2065 - Release Date: >> 04/17/09 17:52:00 > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090418/4aacc3de/attachment-0001.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Fri Apr 17 20:02:00 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Fri Apr 17 20:02:11 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] FW: To Bruce Flegg Message-ID: <002901c9bfc1$47fe47d0$d7fad770$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Bruce Flegg [mailto:bruce@bruceflegg.com] Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2009 10:45 AM To: pjl.whittle@optusnet.com.au Subject: Copy of: Your cycling bulletin Copy of: This is an enquiry e-mail via http://moggill.net/ from: Peter Whittle Dear Bruce Some comments on your online article: - have you checked on your claim about Ben Wilson's alleged statement? He has said he does not support licensing cyclists. Please check the BQ website for the facts and alter your bulletin and retract. Also look up the Cycling Resource Centre on the web for some more detailed comment on this manifestly silly proposal. - have you run similar articles on red-light running by motorists? These are in plague numbers in Brisbane and are far more dangerous than cyclists riding across the Moggill Rd intersection. Haven't the police got better things to do? - did you know there are good reasons to ride across? Ask a cyclist before going to print. Try walking across, and you won't make it before it goes red. Try walking across in pedal cleats. Then try riding - hey - it's safe! Even DMR recognises this and is just trying to get around to putting in a light. So why are the police enforcing this now? Because uninformed bigots see cyclists as a bigger target than other motorists who cause orders of magnitude more hazard and harm. I'm glad you are consulting now - but it would be better to do it before going to print. Peter Whittle. From bulk at ingramtech.com Sat Apr 18 02:44:38 2009 From: bulk at ingramtech.com (Dave Ingram) Date: Sat Apr 18 02:45:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trek 7.3FX stolen from Toowong In-Reply-To: <240748.85012.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <49E5A0A5.1080305@djc.id.au> <20090415224932.C1484@singha.lister.id.au> <49E70787.9090507@djc.id.au> <240748.85012.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49E984E6.8080600@ingramtech.com> Something else to do is to make a name sticker (p-touch, dymo etc) and stick it on the inside of the seat post. It would help back things up if it was there, and if removed then go back to the serial number only. David. Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi Dan, > > Ten years ago I got my black cannondale stolen and actually got it > back a year later. > So there is hope! > I only got it back because one of the mechanic at the bikeshop (the > old Bikestyle) saw it on > a bunch ride still with the Bikestyle logo on it! From that moment on, > I said to myself that > I would record the serial number of the next bike I buy. The easiest > way is just grab a digital > camera and photograph where the serial number is. Get a few pictures > of the bike too. > > Anthony From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Sun Apr 19 18:19:24 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Sun Apr 19 18:19:41 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cyclists must dismount... Message-ID: <7E9A72D88C3B426F9643D0F4CF97F523@golder.gds> In Florida, purportedly: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20090416/Cyclists%20must%20dismount.jpg G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090420/ebae29e9/attachment.htm From listjunkie at pobox.com Sun Apr 19 18:54:42 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Sun Apr 19 18:52:17 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <5DFC4E63-F7E1-442E-9358-D56CC77B592B@pobox.com> On 18 Apr 2009, at 8:09 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: > > So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in > his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and > complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if > Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. > > But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all > conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across > the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in > an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. If I had to speculate as to why someone would complain, I would finger people turning left at either of the two slip-lane/zebra crossing combos. Its easy enough to spot a ped at the zebra crossing and stop for them, but when cyclists speed up to the zebra crossing and shoot across with the expectation of priority, it can give drivers a nasty fright. I've done it, when racing the red. Don't get me started on cyclists who 'steal base' against the red on moggill and camp in the median pen...those ppl are a motorist- relations deathsquad. Even if we badger MR into fitting cycle-across lights, I suspect the zebra crossings would remain. I very much doubt MR would plump for signalising those two slip-lanes, without blowing it up in to a big problem requiring impact study etc. The whole bloody thing should have been an overpass from the beginning. The money poured down the toilet at toowong (to be dug up for the tunnel shortly) would have been better spent there. And another thing, what about the next (outbound) crossing at witton rd? Can anyone tell me what the law dictates when crossing there? --chris From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Apr 19 20:09:44 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Apr 19 20:09:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <5DFC4E63-F7E1-442E-9358-D56CC77B592B@pobox.com> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <5DFC4E63-F7E1-442E-9358-D56CC77B592B@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20090420010929.YVCI16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi ... Interesting you should mention the cyclists cycling across against the red because yesterday morning that is exactly what happened except he cycled across all four of the four crossing legs ... carefully in my view but each time breaching the law ... in total at least 6 separate times ...! Arguably not one of those involved danger to him or danger or nuisance to anyone else ... which raises the discetionary issue to some extent. I am waiting for a reply to my email sent to Bruce Flegg on Saturday morning ... should be interesting ... and hopefully others sent one also. My other "complaint about cyclists" occurred on Mt Samson Road as I was driving north in one of the 100km/h sections, I was approaching a right turn T-intersection where because it is on a bend it has double lines in place. It also has a slip lane ... and guess where the two cyclists cycling two abreast were cycling? In the through lane ... on an uphill section ...! This is pure stupidity if not arrogance/ignorance ... as the approach speed was probably around 70-80km/h ... so effectively I was approaching these two at about 80km/h ... with relatively poor visibility ... when they could and in my view should, have been using the slip lane ie keeping left to allow fast vehicles to pass them ... as it was I slowed down to "squeeze" past ... Although I would never do it for fear of the cyclists suddenly hearing the vehicle and moving left, I probably could easily have passed them to their left at 100km/h in the slip lane ... and if questioned, quite legitimately argued that if they were in that location, I assumed they might have been going to signal to turn right ...! Its worth noting that there have been some fatalities in situations similar to this in the ACT albeit at least in one case, where the cyclist was allegedly waiting to turn right and a car going straight ahead 'didn't see" the cyclist. As for the Witton Road crossing, there really should be GIVE WAY signs facing the approaching cyclists as in principle, the bike path is not a road (it has some other definition ... something like "road related" perhaps?) and any vehicle entering a road gives way to traffic on that road (notice Australia Post reporting posties being threatened by cars driving out of private property ... across our "shared footpaths"?) ... Witton Road is a place where a decent refuge would also be handy ... until we get Dutch influenced traffic lights that automatically advance sense and favour cyclists ...! MY......................... > At 09:54 AM 20/04/2009, Christopher Biggs wrote: > > >On 18 Apr 2009, at 8:09 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: >> >>So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in >>his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and >>complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if >>Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. >> >>But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all >>conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across >>the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in >>an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. > >If I had to speculate as to why someone would complain, I would finger >people turning left at either of the two slip-lane/zebra crossing >combos. > >Its easy enough to spot a ped at the zebra crossing and stop for them, >but when cyclists speed up to the zebra crossing and shoot across with >the expectation of priority, it can give drivers a nasty fright. >I've done it, when racing the red. > >Don't get me started on cyclists who 'steal base' against the red on >moggill and camp in the median pen...those ppl are a motorist- >relations deathsquad. > >Even if we badger MR into fitting cycle-across lights, I suspect the >zebra crossings would remain. I very much doubt MR would plump for >signalising those two slip-lanes, without blowing it up in to a big >problem requiring impact study etc. > >The whole bloody thing should have been an overpass from the >beginning. The money poured down the toilet at toowong (to be dug up >for the tunnel shortly) would have been better spent there. > >And another thing, what about the next (outbound) crossing at witton >rd? Can anyone tell me what the law dictates when crossing there? > >--chris > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2068 - Release Date: >04/19/09 20:04:00 From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Sun Apr 19 21:46:05 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sun Apr 19 21:46:35 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <20090420010929.YVCI16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <5DFC4E63-F7E1-442E-9358-D56CC77B592B@pobox.com> <20090420010929.YVCI16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <000501c9c162$2892b9b0$79b82d10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> I can't help myself ... I tried ... I know Michael never meant it this way ... but I hate anecdotes about misdemeanours by cyclists. By and large, cyclists are not special people - they are just people - a subgroup of the population, if you insist. From the same convict stock as the rest of Brisbane (except us law-abiding Adelaide immigrants ;). Why do people expect cyclists to be perfect? Some people choose to ride bikes, which tends to indicate certain attitudes (but may not). So why does this mean they also have a holier approach to road laws than everyone else? I can watch any road and point out numerous breaches of the law by motorists without any difficulty ... mobile phones, illegal u-turns, rolling over lines, running red lights, speeding, lane-swapping, tailgating. Then there are the "moral offences", like driving tanks when a small car would do, or driving when walking would serve well (or riding a bike). But what do these anecdotes prove about "All motorists"? Nothing. So what value is the bad-cyclist anecdote? Nothing. A campaign to improve the road behaviour of cyclists only belongs in a general road behaviour campaign, and this should be risk-prioritised. Anecdotes about cyclists have got a lot more to do with bigotry than concern for safety or the law. Every anecdote about a bad cyclist should be met with a rebuttal along these lines, IMO. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Monday, 20 April 2009 11:10 AM To: Christopher Biggs Cc: BikeQld list Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement Hi ... Interesting you should mention the cyclists cycling across against the red because yesterday morning that is exactly what happened except he cycled across all four of the four crossing legs ... carefully in my view but each time breaching the law ... in total at least 6 separate times ...! Arguably not one of those involved danger to him or danger or nuisance to anyone else ... which raises the discetionary issue to some extent. I am waiting for a reply to my email sent to Bruce Flegg on Saturday morning ... should be interesting ... and hopefully others sent one also. My other "complaint about cyclists" occurred on Mt Samson Road as I was driving north in one of the 100km/h sections, I was approaching a right turn T-intersection where because it is on a bend it has double lines in place. It also has a slip lane ... and guess where the two cyclists cycling two abreast were cycling? In the through lane ... on an uphill section ...! This is pure stupidity if not arrogance/ignorance ... as the approach speed was probably around 70-80km/h ... so effectively I was approaching these two at about 80km/h ... with relatively poor visibility ... when they could and in my view should, have been using the slip lane ie keeping left to allow fast vehicles to pass them ... as it was I slowed down to "squeeze" past ... Although I would never do it for fear of the cyclists suddenly hearing the vehicle and moving left, I probably could easily have passed them to their left at 100km/h in the slip lane ... and if questioned, quite legitimately argued that if they were in that location, I assumed they might have been going to signal to turn right ...! Its worth noting that there have been some fatalities in situations similar to this in the ACT albeit at least in one case, where the cyclist was allegedly waiting to turn right and a car going straight ahead 'didn't see" the cyclist. As for the Witton Road crossing, there really should be GIVE WAY signs facing the approaching cyclists as in principle, the bike path is not a road (it has some other definition ... something like "road related" perhaps?) and any vehicle entering a road gives way to traffic on that road (notice Australia Post reporting posties being threatened by cars driving out of private property ... across our "shared footpaths"?) ... Witton Road is a place where a decent refuge would also be handy ... until we get Dutch influenced traffic lights that automatically advance sense and favour cyclists ...! MY......................... > At 09:54 AM 20/04/2009, Christopher Biggs wrote: > > >On 18 Apr 2009, at 8:09 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: >> >>So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in >>his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and >>complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if >>Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. >> >>But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all >>conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across >>the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in >>an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. > >If I had to speculate as to why someone would complain, I would finger >people turning left at either of the two slip-lane/zebra crossing >combos. > >Its easy enough to spot a ped at the zebra crossing and stop for them, >but when cyclists speed up to the zebra crossing and shoot across with >the expectation of priority, it can give drivers a nasty fright. >I've done it, when racing the red. > >Don't get me started on cyclists who 'steal base' against the red on >moggill and camp in the median pen...those ppl are a motorist- >relations deathsquad. > >Even if we badger MR into fitting cycle-across lights, I suspect the >zebra crossings would remain. I very much doubt MR would plump for >signalising those two slip-lanes, without blowing it up in to a big >problem requiring impact study etc. > >The whole bloody thing should have been an overpass from the >beginning. The money poured down the toilet at toowong (to be dug up >for the tunnel shortly) would have been better spent there. > >And another thing, what about the next (outbound) crossing at witton >rd? Can anyone tell me what the law dictates when crossing there? > >--chris > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2068 - Release Date: >04/19/09 20:04:00 _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From michael at yeatesit.biz Sun Apr 19 22:51:43 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Sun Apr 19 22:51:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <000501c9c162$2892b9b0$79b82d10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> References: <49D3AAE40000DA5B@cpms02.int.iprimus.net.au> <84529.63646.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090417220946.UZDE1841.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <5DFC4E63-F7E1-442E-9358-D56CC77B592B@pobox.com> <20090420010929.YVCI16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> <000501c9c162$2892b9b0$79b82d10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20090420035128.DNAA12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Nice Pete ... And from one Adelaide immigrant to another ... albeit we arrived in January 1839 ... so perhaps the "prickliness" remains ...! Points taken ... but don't forget that aside from lurkers (and others?), this is a cycling/cyclists discussion list ... so surely points well made should at least be considered. The first of mine clearly made the point that there was nothing wrong with what the cyclist did ... other than break some laws which if they were related to causing others harm of some kind, would be appropriate but if in place purely to "protect" ie constrain cyclists, well change them ... or as I suggested elsewhere, provide the means to get on and off the road ... and then cycle "on the road" where cyclists really are meant to be ... as distinct from apparently wanting special treatment. In fact that intersection like many others could revert to flashing orange/amber meaning give way (to the right unless otherwise signed)? The Mt Samson Road point is equally the case ... didn't really bother me as a cyclist but driving a car at the speed limit ... my point is that other drivers may not be as "aware" ... and perhaps (?) cyclists should keep left esp on 100km/h roads uphill? BTW there is a CYCLISTS AHEAD NEXT 6kms sign as you leave Samfiord heading south which I don't recall having seen before and I don't recall seeing one when heading north out of Ferny Grove. As MR has refused to put these in many locations when requested, is it new or just not noticed ...? That and the point about Witton Road are surely points worth raising on this list if only to encourage useful comment ... including yours Pete ..! Elsewhere I would put them a bit differently .. in short as follows ... redesign ALL ped AND bikeway/bikepath crossings so NO cyclist is EVER lead onto a pedestrian crossing ... its that simple ... starting with Sylvan Road at Coro Drive (where MR Refused to change the design and BCC went along as usual as did BQ I assume), Mt Samsonvale Road (and ALL similar network connector roads) needs 2m shoulders along its entire length and the "yellow BIKEs" on the edge line between the through lane and the shoulder ... or not quite as good, BIKE symbols on the shoulder as on David Low Highway in the section formerly in Noosa but MR would not do it ... so Noosa took it over ... Dutch advance sensor controlled traffic lights at Witton Road and at ALL similar "major" bikepath road crossings ... worth about $250,000 ... compared with how much for the Toowong overpass ...!!! Throw in slower speed limits ... and stopping the other traffic is essential to making cycling relatively much faster AND safer at the lowest real cost ...! MY.................... At 12:46 PM 20/04/2009, Peter Whittle wrote: >I can't help myself ... I tried ... I know Michael never meant it this way >... but I hate anecdotes about misdemeanours by cyclists. > >By and large, cyclists are not special people - they are just people - a >subgroup of the population, if you insist. From the same convict stock as >the rest of Brisbane (except us law-abiding Adelaide immigrants ;). Why do >people expect cyclists to be perfect? Some people choose to ride bikes, >which tends to indicate certain attitudes (but may not). So why does this >mean they also have a holier approach to road laws than everyone else? I can >watch any road and point out numerous breaches of the law by motorists >without any difficulty ... mobile phones, illegal u-turns, rolling over >lines, running red lights, speeding, lane-swapping, tailgating. Then there >are the "moral offences", like driving tanks when a small car would do, or >driving when walking would serve well (or riding a bike). But what do these >anecdotes prove about "All motorists"? Nothing. So what value is the >bad-cyclist anecdote? Nothing. > >A campaign to improve the road behaviour of cyclists only belongs in a >general road behaviour campaign, and this should be risk-prioritised. >Anecdotes about cyclists have got a lot more to do with bigotry than concern >for safety or the law. > >Every anecdote about a bad cyclist should be met with a rebuttal along these >lines, IMO. > >Pete > >-----Original Message----- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] >On Behalf Of Michael Yeates >Sent: Monday, 20 April 2009 11:10 AM >To: Christopher Biggs >Cc: BikeQld list >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement > >Hi ... > >Interesting you should mention the cyclists cycling across against >the red because yesterday morning that is exactly what happened >except he cycled across all four of the four crossing legs ... >carefully in my view but each time breaching the law ... in total at >least 6 separate times ...! > >Arguably not one of those involved danger to him or danger or >nuisance to anyone else ... which raises the discetionary issue to some >extent. > >I am waiting for a reply to my email sent to Bruce Flegg on Saturday >morning ... should be interesting ... and hopefully others sent one also. > >My other "complaint about cyclists" occurred on Mt Samson Road as I >was driving north in one of the 100km/h sections, I was approaching a >right turn T-intersection where because it is on a bend it has double >lines in place. It also has a slip lane ... and guess where the two >cyclists cycling two abreast were cycling? > >In the through lane ... on an uphill section ...! > >This is pure stupidity if not arrogance/ignorance ... as the approach >speed was probably around 70-80km/h ... so effectively I was >approaching these two at about 80km/h ... with relatively poor >visibility ... when they could and in my view should, have been using >the slip lane ie keeping left to allow fast vehicles to pass them ... >as it was I slowed down to "squeeze" past ... > >Although I would never do it for fear of the cyclists suddenly >hearing the vehicle and moving left, I probably could easily have >passed them to their left at 100km/h in the slip lane ... and if >questioned, quite legitimately argued that if they were in that >location, I assumed they might have been going to signal to turn right ...! > >Its worth noting that there have been some fatalities in situations >similar to this in the ACT albeit at least in one case, where the >cyclist was allegedly waiting to turn right and a car going straight >ahead 'didn't see" the cyclist. > >As for the Witton Road crossing, there really should be GIVE WAY >signs facing the approaching cyclists as in principle, the bike path >is not a road (it has some other definition ... something like "road >related" perhaps?) and any vehicle entering a road gives way to >traffic on that road (notice Australia Post reporting posties being >threatened by cars driving out of private property ... across our >"shared footpaths"?) ... > >Witton Road is a place where a decent refuge would also be handy ... >until we get Dutch influenced traffic lights that automatically >advance sense and favour cyclists ...! > >MY......................... > > > At 09:54 AM 20/04/2009, Christopher Biggs wrote: > > > > > >On 18 Apr 2009, at 8:09 AM, Michael Yeates wrote: > >> > >>So I would not be surprised at all if a local constituent sitting in > >>his car waiting for the lights watched cyclists flouting the law and > >>complained to Dr Flegg about it ... and it would not surprise me if > >>Dr Flegg then asked the police to take some action. > >> > >>But while that is all quite reasonable, it is also all > >>conjecture ... it could equally be someone who was walking across > >>the crossing and was startled by one or more cyclists overtaking in > >>an irresponsible manner ... and reported it to police. > > > >If I had to speculate as to why someone would complain, I would finger > >people turning left at either of the two slip-lane/zebra crossing > >combos. > > > >Its easy enough to spot a ped at the zebra crossing and stop for them, > >but when cyclists speed up to the zebra crossing and shoot across with > >the expectation of priority, it can give drivers a nasty fright. > >I've done it, when racing the red. > > > >Don't get me started on cyclists who 'steal base' against the red on > >moggill and camp in the median pen...those ppl are a motorist- > >relations deathsquad. > > > >Even if we badger MR into fitting cycle-across lights, I suspect the > >zebra crossings would remain. I very much doubt MR would plump for > >signalising those two slip-lanes, without blowing it up in to a big > >problem requiring impact study etc. > > > >The whole bloody thing should have been an overpass from the > >beginning. The money poured down the toilet at toowong (to be dug up > >for the tunnel shortly) would have been better spent there. > > > >And another thing, what about the next (outbound) crossing at witton > >rd? Can anyone tell me what the law dictates when crossing there? > > > >--chris > > > >_______________________________________________ > >bikeqld mailing list > >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2068 - Release Date: > >04/19/09 20:04:00 > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2068 - Release Date: >04/19/09 20:04:00 From michael at yeatesit.biz Mon Apr 20 19:45:27 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Mon Apr 20 19:45:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [Cmass-Sydney] astonishing urban trials riding Message-ID: <20090421004510.UICG12625.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... I thought the following might help distract from the rather sad discussions about people (not cyclists) who break the law ... :-X MY ............................. >>Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:19:23 -0700 >>Subject: [Cmass-Sydney] astonishing urban trials riding >> >>I'm impressed! Almost parkour on a bike: http://bit.ly/BikeUK From busrail at fastmail.fm Wed Apr 22 06:28:15 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Wed Apr 22 06:34:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Perceptions of bicycle safety In-Reply-To: <001801c9ae80$38364f20$a8a2ed60$@com.au> Message-ID: <007301c9c33d$723c8500$0201010a@norm> Does anyone know the rules applying to cycling across rail level crossings, that is the ones that are specially provided for pedestrians? We have one at Woombye that saves following the road that crosses under the rail line an extra half km. There is a chicane at one end that makes it difficult but not impossible to stay on the bike and a break in the fence on the other side that is easy to ride straight thru. There are signs at both ends saying to check for trains before crossing. We had some security blokes camped there all day yesterday and today. I had a chat to them and they said they were helping people to cross the tracks safely. Specifically chatting up those who shortcut from the station platform along the tracks and then across instead on staying within the yellow lines. They said they were educating people as opposed to the police who would come soon and book people who crossed incorrectly. I asked about riding across as I normally do and they said it was illegal, I must dismount and walk across for my own safety and not to incur a fine. I pointed out that it did not seem safer that way, but they thought I (or some young kids) might fly across and fall off in front of a train. It looked a bit like a footpath to me on which I would be allowed to ride, but they assured me it was not. It is a crossing just like a zebra or signalled crossing. Not sure how many of these things there are. These blokes assured me I'd have to climb the steps over a new overhead crossing before long. (Despite the plan to double the rail line through to Nambour by 2026 when the plan is for a road overpass instead of the crappy low height underpass that is there now.) They counted 21 trains through the crossing on the day (8 to 4) and only 2 school children walking across the crossing. Now I think about it I suppose there were other pedestrians as well, but I don't know how many. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Cycling Promotion Fund Sent: Friday, 27 March 2009 12:03 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] RE: Perceptions of bicycle safety If safety concerns are an issue, you may want to produce the Cycling Promotion Fund's Cycling and Safety Fact Sheet. It starts with "Over the past 25 years there has been a decrease in the number of cycling fatalities in Australia" despite cycling increasing in popularity in recent years. Plus there's a fabulous quote: British research has found that the gain of 'life years' through improved fitness among people who regularly cycle is "about 20 times greater that the loss of 'life years' through cycle fatalities". The CPF has a range of fact sheets available to download or order. http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/resources/cycling-faqs/ Happy cycling, Kathy Kathy Brunning Executive Assistant, Cycling Promotion Fund PO Box 3052 Auburn Victoria 3123 Ph 03-9818-5400 Fax 03-9818-4535 www.rideabike.com.au An initiative of the Bicycling Industry in Australia _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From busrail at fastmail.fm Wed Apr 22 06:32:28 2009 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Wed Apr 22 06:34:46 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Rail pedestrian crossings and cycling. In-Reply-To: <001801c9ae80$38364f20$a8a2ed60$@com.au> Message-ID: <007401c9c33e$078bc940$0201010a@norm> Does anyone know the rules applying to cycling across rail level crossings, that is the ones that are specially provided for pedestrians? We have one at Woombye that saves following the road that crosses under the rail line an extra half km. There is a chicane at one end that makes it difficult but not impossible to stay on the bike and a break in the fence on the other side that is natural to ride straight thru. There are signs at both ends saying to check for trains before crossing. We had some security blokes camped there all day yesterday and today. I had a chat to them and they said they were helping people to cross the tracks safely. Specifically chatting up those who shortcut from the station platform along the tracks and then across instead on staying within the yellow lines. They said they were educating people as opposed to the police who would come soon and book people who crossed incorrectly. I asked about riding across as I normally do and they said it was illegal, I must dismount and walk across for my own safety and not to incur a fine. I pointed out that it did not seem safer that way, but they thought I (or some young kids) might fly across and fall off in front of a train. It looked a bit like a footpath to me on which I would be allowed to ride, but they assured me it was not. It is a crossing just like a zebra or signalled crossing. Not sure how many of these things there are. These blokes assured me I'd have to climb the steps over a new overhead crossing before long. (Despite the plan to double the rail line through to Nambour by 2026 when the plan is for a road overpass instead of the crappy low height underpass that is there now.) They counted 21 trains through the crossing on the day (8 to 4) and only 2 school children walking across the crossing. Now I think about it I suppose there were other pedestrians as well, but I don't know how many. Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Overall Energy consumption Japan 1999 (kWh per 100 person-km) Car 68, Bus 19, Rail 6, Air 51, Sea 57. http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Fri Apr 24 13:49:25 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Fri Apr 24 14:04:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Differences between 1.75 inch tyre and 1.25 inch tyre? Message-ID: <296089.94781.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've been riding to work on my Cannondale F7 MTB. I got it when it was on special from Epic. It is a nice bike but I just find it heavy to ride to work compared to my road bike. Stupid me, I bought some 1.75 inch tyre from Torpedo7 ages ago. The same tyre are now on sale again for $9 each. They have sizes as narrow as 1.25 inch. Would I necessary feel less effort using the 1.25 or MTBs are just so heavy that I might as well just stick to riding with my 1.75s? Any suggestions? Thank you. Oh the 1.75 I have now are slicks. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a better web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090424/ea147e5a/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 23 17:21:44 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Sat Apr 25 10:42:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling Promotion Fund Survey - Help us to help you Message-ID: <000001c9c461$e3004f90$a900eeb0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Cycling Promotion Fund Survey - Help us to help you * Link to Cycling Promotion Fund: Cycling Groups Survey Australia is faced with a number of health challenges. The Federal Government is seeking input and policy advice on effective strategies to increase physical activity levels to improve community health and wellbeing. The work and activities organised by bicycle user groups, clubs and associations like yours, are playing an instrumental role in inspiring and supporting people to take up and maintain regular physical activity through cycling. To better understand the range and extent of these activities across the country, the Cycling Promotion Fund is undertaking its second national survey that will document: * The size and scope of local and community cycling organisations in Australia * The number of people who regularly participate in local cycling activities and events * The links cycling organisations have in the community * What support would assist local cycling organisations in maintaining and expanding their activities to reach more people. For the first time Cycling Australia (CA) is cooperating with the Cycling Promotion Fund (CPF) and other groups to get a much better picture of local and community cycling participation in this country. This information will be used to provide policy advice to the Commonwealth Government to make a stronger case for Government investment and support for effective strategies to increase physical activity through cycling. The survey has 5 sections 1. About your organisation 2. Your activities 3. Partnerships 4. Communications and promotions 5. Miscellaneous Individual responses will be kept confidential. Not all questions will apply to your organisation; many questions are optional. But the more information you provide, the stronger the case can be made for greater investment and support. This survey should take an estimated 15 minutes to complete. If you are not able to complete it at once, you can leave the browser window open, or copy and save the URL (the web address that starts with http://) and return to the survey again later to complete it. We appreciate your responses, and the CPF hopes you can do the survey by close of business - 5pm, Wednesday 29th April 2009. * Link to Cycling Promotion Fund: Cycling Groups Survey Please fee free to contact Rosemarie and Stephen if you have any questions about the survey or the work the Cycling Promotion Fund is doing to promote and encourage cycling. Kind regards Rosemarie Speidel, CPF Program Director Mobile: 0407 537 760 Stephen Hodge, CPF Government Relations Representative Mobile: 0411 149 910 Cycling Promotion Fund PO Box 3052 Auburn Victoria 3123 Office: Ph 03-9818-5400 Fax 03-9818-4535 http://www.rideabike.com.au An initiative of the Bicycling Industry in Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090424/1d6eb8d9/attachment.htm From akayani at aapt.net.au Sat Apr 25 12:59:50 2009 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Sat Apr 25 11:28:26 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling across crossings enforcement In-Reply-To: <000501c9c162$2892b9b0$79b82d10$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20090425005959.E457512862@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Unfortunately it's not just the enforcement of litigious prescriptions for behaviour of cyclists, it a more general trend towards creating sheep from the general population where it is assumed that everyone is brain dead and needs to be protected from themselves. You really need to have a lack of 'subject material' to start worrying about cyclists. But that is the world we live in, one where people lack a subject so they enjoy the critique of others. You can be sure the police that are standing around intersections fussing about what cyclists do are rookies. It would be a public contact job used to test them and nothing more. Best thing anyone can do is pull a bible out of the backpack and start behaving like a Jehovah Witness. "Have you heard the word of God today." They will want to be rid of you so fast that writing a ticket is just forgotten. The worst thing you can do is say "I'm in a hurry." Yani From admin at bikeqld.org.au Sat Apr 25 23:29:06 2009 From: admin at bikeqld.org.au (Ian Lister) Date: Sat Apr 25 23:29:24 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Trucks in the city (fwd) Message-ID: While digging through old bikeqld mail I found the below mail, which I think never made it onto the list (due to the large attachment). The image is now at: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/attachments/20080918/image001.jpg Apologies for this mail having slipped through the cracks until now. Ian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:02:20 +1000 From: Owen Foale To: 'Bicycle Queensland' Subject: Trucks in the city Hi there Just thought (hoped) it might be useful for anyone campaigning on inner city traffic issues to have this photo on hand. Whilst riding in the CBD yesterday my rear wheel was clipped by the wheels of the trailer on a large construction site truck as it mounted the footpath while taking the corner on Edward and Charlotte St's. Fortunately for me my injuries were limited to bruising and abrasion. Quotes from the Lord Mayor: "It's about people and it's about > cycling", > and "It's also about our vision for the Brisbane CBD to be pedestrian and > cycling friendly." Keep up the good work, Owen Foale abrasion. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Apr 26 21:04:07 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Apr 26 21:04:18 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Thank you for the question on MTB tyres Message-ID: <733598.38692.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Many thanks for all the replies on my question about converting from 1.75 inch to 1.25 inch tyre. Silly question but how can I tell whether my rim will take 1.25 inch? Or is it case that if the rim can take 1.75 it should take. 1.25 inch. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090426/fe6104c8/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Mon Apr 27 19:36:36 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Mon Apr 27 19:37:01 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws by Piet De Jong Message-ID: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1368064&download=yes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/26d8e0b1/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon Apr 27 22:29:13 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon Apr 27 22:29:43 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C414@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Unfortunately, this seems to be the Abstract only? P ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 10:37 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1368064&download=yes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/86e428ed/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Mon Apr 27 22:38:39 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Mon Apr 27 22:38:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C414@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: If you can?t access the whole article, use your QUT library portal to get it, they would probably subscribe to the journal. Alternatively, email the author at Macquarie Uni, he may send you a copy. J. On 28/4/09 1:29 PM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: > Unfortunately, this seems to be the Abstract only? > > P > > > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Richard Hockey > Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 10:37 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet > De Jong > > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1368064&download=yes > > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/0492b2d3/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Mon Apr 27 22:59:48 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Mon Apr 27 23:00:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong In-Reply-To: References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C414@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C44E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Not in QUT library, so yes please, Richard, send away! P ________________________________ From: John Nightingale [mailto:adsliif2@iinet.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 1:39 PM To: Peter Whittle; Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong If you can't access the whole article, use your QUT library portal to get it, they would probably subscribe to the journal. Alternatively, email the author at Macquarie Uni, he may send you a copy. J. On 28/4/09 1:29 PM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: Unfortunately, this seems to be the Abstract only? P ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 10:37 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1368064&download=yes ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/d1636770/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Tue Apr 28 00:01:34 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Tue Apr 28 00:03:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet LawsbyPiet De Jong In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C44E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C414@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706A8C44E@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <88CB1C1C66424E9CA43C8DE40854F8BA@golder.gds> Clicking Download, then Stanford Law School worked here. An interesting paper which tries to quantify and integrate many of the common points of argument. Hint: It all depends on ?m, the reduction in cycling due to the helmet law. If that is zero, then the percent of the potential health benefit achieved, %HB ? 1.0 (or ?* - ?). But ?m is actually poorly known (Perth data notwithstanding). The analysis suggests that even if ?m is fairly small (say 10%), %HB is pretty much wiped out (it rapidly becomes negative). Which has been argued here before, but qualitatively. G. _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 2:00 PM To: John Nightingale; Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet LawsbyPiet De Jong Not in QUT library, so yes please, Richard, send away! P _____ From: John Nightingale [mailto:adsliif2@iinet.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 1:39 PM To: Peter Whittle; Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong If you can?t access the whole article, use your QUT library portal to get it, they would probably subscribe to the journal. Alternatively, email the author at Macquarie Uni, he may send you a copy. J. On 28/4/09 1:29 PM, "Peter Whittle" wrote: Unfortunately, this seems to be the Abstract only? P _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 10:37 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Evaluating the Health Benefit of Bicycle Helmet Laws byPiet De Jong http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1368064 &download=yes _____ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/5a55d5b4/attachment-0001.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Apr 28 17:11:59 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Apr 28 17:11:59 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] reported crash this morning Message-ID: <20090428221138.PZLR27.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> I have just been advised of a crash involving a cyclist in the area near Kayes Rocks' ... maybe on the approaches to the traffic lights on Brisbane Street Toowong. Could anyone who went past or knows about a reported crash said to have involved a cyclist let me know of any details please? Thanks ... MY................ From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Apr 28 17:20:22 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Apr 28 17:20:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [Woj-talk] Education is key Message-ID: <20090428222000.CGIW12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> This project might be worth doing in Queensland ... given it seems even the police (or some of them) only appear to know some rules ... then rely on giving "lawful instruction" to enforce what they believe ...? MY................. >Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:05:17 +1000 (EST) >From: telstar@cfsmtb.net >To: woj-talk@woj.com.au >Subject: [Woj-talk] Education is key > >Hi all, > >Another article from Paul Bibby in todays SMH, a good follow up from >yesterdays article: > >Roads to nowhere leave cyclists fuming >http://www.smh.com.au/national/roads-to-nowhere-leave-cyclists-fuming-20090426-ajd2.html > >*** > >Wheel of misfortune: cyclists and motorists are at war >http://www.smh.com.au/national/wheel-of-misfortune-cyclists-and-motorists-are-at-war-20090427-akn2.html > >Paul Bibby Urban Affairs Reporter, April 28, 2009 > >Pic: Chris Rissel . . . he found many motorists do not know basic road >rules relating to cyclists. Photo: Peter Rae > >THE smallest slip can do it - a cyclist zipping between two cars to reach >the front of the traffic queue receives a blaring horn in response, >followed by an exchange of rude gestures. > >As the number of bike trips in the city each day heads towards 200,000, >cyclists and motorists are increasingly being involved in fiery exchanges. > >While governments across the country have begun education campaigns, NSW >is without a comprehensive awareness raising program. > >The result, says Chris Rissel, an associate professor at the School of >Public Health at the University of Sydney, is a serious lack of road >etiquette. > >He found that an alarming number of motorists did not know some of the >basic road rules relating to cyclists, such as when cyclists had right of >way. > >"Thirty-seven per cent of motorists didn't know that cyclists were >entitled to use a whole lane, and 69 per cent didn't know they were >allowed to overtake on the left of cars," Professor Rissel said. > >"Eighty-one per cent didn't know cyclists were allowed to ride two abreast >and 13 per cent didn't know they were allowed to use the roads at all. >That is definitely a contributing factor to the level of tension and >danger on the roads." > >The City of Sydney has included an education campaign as part of its plan >to build a network of cycleways through the inner city. > >The Lord Mayor of Sydney, Clover Moore, said: "The problem is that >motorists are treating cyclists really badly, and so you get the cyclists >calling themselves road warriors and now you've got them driving motorists >mad. Education is key." > > >---------------------------------------- >Don't get involved in partial problems, >but always take flight to where there is >a free view over the whole single great >problem, even if this view is still not >a clear one - Ludwig Wittgenstein > >http://cfsmtb.net >http://www.woj.com.au >http://www.ycat.org.au >http://www.yarrabug.org/radio >http://www.melbournecyclist.com >---------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >Woj-talk mailing list >Woj-talk@woj.com.au >http://woj.com.au/mailman/listinfo/woj-talk_woj.com.au From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Apr 28 17:24:55 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Apr 28 17:24:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] [World Streets] How do you get the population riding bikes for daily transpor... Message-ID: <20090428222434.LELE16595.nschwotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> FYI ... MY.................. Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 01:50:00 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] [World Streets] How >do you get the population riding bikes for daily transpor... > >[http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2008/12/04/fresh-cycling-statistics-from-the-netherlands/] > >How do you get the population riding bikes for daily transportation? > >- Henry Cutler, Amsterdam, the Netherlands > >There is more to it than just wheels and >concrete. It is a systemic challenge, and here for example is one small part. > >In the Netherlands there's a tax rule that >allows one to purchase a bicycle each three >years with pre-tax salary. You can buy any >bicycle with a maximum tax-free price of ?749 >plus ?249249 of extras, but the great majority >of bikes here are utility models. Given that >both Dutch taxes and use of bikes as >transportation are very high this rule is widely >used. This tax benefit enables more new and >better bikes to be sold but it's unclear how >much it actually increases cycling usage. The >Dutch cycle because it's the most practical, >safe, cheap and enjoyable option ...and do so >whether they're on new bikes or ancient, >single-speed granny bikes. Nationwide the Dutch >cycle an average of 2.48 km per day. > >That cycling is so often the most practical, >safe, cheap and enjoyable means of >transportation in the Netherlands isn't just >cultural; it's a function of cycling being a key >element in the nationwide transportation >infrastructure. It is widely recognized that >bicycles are the most flexible, economical and >space-efficient way for people to get around the >densely populated cities. Private cars are the least. > >Practically every point in the entire country is >outfitted with bicycle roads, signals and >storage facilities... and drivers who also >cycle. Scary intersections and high-speed roads >without separated bicycle paths are >extraordinarily rare. To the contrary bicycle >roads are often much more direct and convenient >than those for automobiles. These traffic routes >are planned out and implemented city wide. > >A good example is the northern city of >Groningen, which apparently has world's highest >cycling modal share at??!/???????/ 57% of trips. >Until the 1970's there were no restrictions on >driving cars through the city and bike paths >were being removed. In 1972 the government >designated the city center "living space" and >integrated transport policy with town planning . >Over the following four decades auto access was >restricted, cycling infrastructure improved and >new neighborhoods developed to encourage >cycling. Some notable statistics: There are 0.4 >cars and 1.7 bikes per person and the average >speed of cycling within the city is 50% faster than driving. > >How do you get the population riding bikes for >daily transportation? Build your cities to make >it safe, practical and fast so that cycling >becomes something everyone will do instead of >just a few hardy, bike commuter "warriors". >Children must be able to cycle to school and >elderly people to the grocery store. Tax >benefits for bike purchases might help but not >if the basic infrastructure isn't in place. > >References: > * > http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2008/12/04/fresh-cycling-statistics-from-the-netherlands/ > > * > http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-groningen-grew-to-be-worlds-number.html > > * > http://www.bakfiets-en-meer.nl/2008/10/16/bicycle-death-statistics-in-amsterdam-and-the-netherlands/ > > >Henry Cutler, henry@workcycles.com >WorkCycles B.V., http://www.workcycles.com >Amsterdam, the Netherlands > >-- >Posted By The Editor to >World >Streets at 4/27/2009 08:46:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090429/9e54d935/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Apr 28 17:25:46 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Apr 28 17:26:20 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Fwd: [Woj-talk] Education is key In-Reply-To: <20090428222000.CGIW12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090428222000.CGIW12952.nschwotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <20090429082308.L1484@singha.lister.id.au> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009, Michael Yeates wrote: >> From: telstar@cfsmtb.net [snip] >> "Thirty-seven per cent of motorists didn't know that cyclists were >> entitled to use a whole lane, and 69 per cent didn't know they were >> allowed to overtake on the left of cars," Professor Rissel said. >> >> "Eighty-one per cent didn't know cyclists were allowed to ride two abreast >> and 13 per cent didn't know they were allowed to use the roads at all. >> That is definitely a contributing factor to the level of tension and >> danger on the roads." Wow. I knew it was bad, but... that's stunning. I can't imagine things are any better in Queensland, either. Ian From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Apr 28 21:33:06 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Apr 28 21:33:23 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding from city to Darra? In-Reply-To: <639B75DED18.0000001Ckplayford@inbox.com> References: <9428d18e0904281639t41a9858em897f631df0aa66bc@mail.gmail.com> <977281970904281640l691d4e4na850cc0df04d94ad@mail.gmail.com> <42956.42194.qm@web59007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <639B75DED18.0000001Ckplayford@inbox.com> Message-ID: <871936.6234.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am hoping to ride from the city to Darra this afternoon. I am hoping to use the Centenary Freeway's bikeway. I have never ridden this section before and wanted to know if it is reasonably well signed. Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090428/acd9333c/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Apr 28 23:36:50 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Apr 28 23:37:30 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Riding from city to Darra? In-Reply-To: <871936.6234.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <9428d18e0904281639t41a9858em897f631df0aa66bc@mail.gmail.com> <977281970904281640l691d4e4na850cc0df04d94ad@mail.gmail.com> <42956.42194.qm@web59007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <639B75DED18.0000001Ckplayford@inbox.com> <871936.6234.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090429142857.T1484@singha.lister.id.au> Hi Anthony, Yes, it's pretty easy to follow. I presume you know how to get to the Western Freeway bikeway at Toowong (via Land St and Sylvan Rd). From there you just follow the path, which never strays too far from the freeway. Immediately after you cross the river the path doubles back and you need to turn left, around under the bridge (not right to Amazons Place), and continue on the other side of the freeway. The path ends at Sumners Rd, which is busy, but I'm guessing you'll want to hop on the road, cross the freeway again, and head down Westcombe St. I'm not a regular out there so if there are any recent changes hopefully others on the list will mention them. And maybe even update the wiki :-) http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Centenary_Highway Cheers, Ian On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, Anthony Lee wrote: > Hi all, I am hoping to ride from the city to Darra this afternoon. I am hoping to use the Centenary Freeway's bikeway. I have never ridden this section before and wanted to know if it is reasonably well signed. Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au The new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7: Faster, Safer, Easier. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 29 17:18:50 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Apr 29 17:19:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Message-ID: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, If you haven't ridden through Coro Drive this morning then count yourself lucky. This morning there was a council worker standing one end of the temporary construction just pass the floating restaurant. He was making everyone get off their bike. I had argument with him asking him what if people slip walking on their cleats. He shouted back saying a 65 year old fell yesterday because a cyclist refuse to walk their bike. What do we do now? I wonder if we should put up road blocks on Coro Drive itself and make motorist push their cars pass the HSL construction zone. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090429/513162c9/attachment.htm From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 29 17:27:59 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 29 17:28:19 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201c9c919$c1a3c270$44eb4750$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> Fall over, to prove your point? ;) Pete From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 8:19 AM To: BIQ; Uni Cycle Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Hi all, If you haven't ridden through Coro Drive this morning then count yourself lucky. This morning there was a council worker standing one end of the temporary construction just pass the floating restaurant. He was making everyone get off their bike. I had argument with him asking him what if people slip walking on their cleats. He shouted back saying a 65 year old fell yesterday because a cyclist refuse to walk their bike. What do we do now? I wonder if we should put up road blocks on Coro Drive itself and make motorist push their cars pass the HSL construction zone. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au _____ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/0dc99cbb/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Apr 29 18:06:37 2009 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Apr 29 18:06:58 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] 30 km/h roads much safer than 50 km/h roads -Report from Netherlands Message-ID: http://www.swov.nl/UK/Actueel/Persberichten/2009/Zones_30.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/feb30bd7/attachment.htm From adsliif2 at iinet.net.au Wed Apr 29 18:17:36 2009 From: adsliif2 at iinet.net.au (John Nightingale) Date: Wed Apr 29 18:18:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Those of us who attended the CBDBUG meeting yesterday had a discussion with Mr. J. Lee of the BCC Active Transport Unit. The discussion became a little lively. Mr Lee blamed the project venturers? OH&S people for the ?dismount? order. Further development will include correspondence to the BCC?s CEO and Lord Mayor. Discussion of a possible direct action ? mass cycling on Corro Drive at peak of peak hour was suggested ? occurred informally. Rider anger will be unrestrained, the ramp is long and significantly narrower than specified when planned. We?ve been dudded yet again by penny pinching contractors who haven?t done what they promised. IE, won the contract with one bid, then substituted to save a few $$ profit. Who are the contractors? Bombard them in some or other fashion. Bombard the Council as well. I would urge list-posters who work in or around the CBD to get onto the CBDBUG email membership list and attend meetings. As the most active local BUG, with a track record of achievement, regular attendance at meetings by BCC and BQ, who we berate or congratulate as well as receiving their reports, questioning them and demanding further actions, the BUG has tentacles into most CBD and commuting route issues. Good luck, and thank goodness I don?t commute any more! J. On 30/4/09 8:18 AM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: > Hi all, > > If you haven't ridden through Coro Drive this morning then count yourself > lucky. > This morning there was a council worker standing one end of the temporary > construction > just pass the floating restaurant. He was making everyone get off their bike. > I had argument with him asking him what if people slip walking on their > cleats. > He shouted back saying a 65 year old fell yesterday because a cyclist refuse > to walk > their bike. > > What do we do now? I wonder if we should put up road blocks on Coro Drive > itself and make > motorist push their cars pass the HSL construction zone. > > Anthony Lee > The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? > ........-- __o > ....-- _ \<,_ > ........(_) / (_) > E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > > Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer > 8. Get it now. > 3oDMTJxbnQwdTJhBF9zAzIxNDIwMjU2NTkEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzQ > 0OAR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=11k6t9t1c/** > http://downloads.yahoo> . > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/dccd7ba8/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 29 18:43:32 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 29 18:44:13 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090429234333.VCQW20107.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> As I have more than a passing knowledge of building and construction contracts, perhaps it might be useful to observe that it is the "Principal" to whom the complaints should be made ie the Brisbane City Council and nominally, to the Lord Mayor. However John Lee is well known ... and for those of us with a long record of being "consulted", not exactly the ideal advocate for walking ... but especially so in relation to cycling and criticism of Council in that he is a stickler for defending Council actions ... and from the report/s, it sounds a bit like he did that yet again. BCC has people who are supposed to ensure that what Council (ie us as it is our money being spent by Council) contracts to achieve, it does in fact achieve. If shortcuts are being taken, then that may well be approved by Council employees or it may be a case of turning a blind eye and thus an indication of possible corruption. I have pursued similar issues in regard to other Council services contracts not being met ...and reluctantly the only success is likely to come from the Lord Mayor himself. It is also worth noting that the Lord Mayor has built up something of an image (mirage?) of a supporter of cycling on paths ... indeed $100m worth he promised ... so this is a "welcome to the real world" reality check on putting so much money into paths esp here where there is no other route, while at the same time removing the option to cycle in a protected lane on Coro Drive. Don't forget who took away the BUS LANE which operated in peak hour direction and which quite a few cyclists used albeit for most the bikepath was preferred? Now there is no option ...! My email to him is on the way. Hold tight as it may then require evidence of some of the statements and assertions. MY...................... At 09:17 AM 30/04/2009, John Nightingale wrote: >Those of us who attended the CBDBUG meeting >yesterday had a discussion with Mr. J. Lee of >the BCC Active Transport Unit. The discussion >became a little lively. Mr Lee blamed the >project venturers? OH&S people for the >?dismount? order. Further development will >include correspondence to the BCC?s CEO and Lord >Mayor. Discussion of a possible direct action ? >mass cycling on Corro Drive at peak of peak hour >was suggested ? occurred informally. Rider anger >will be unrestrained, the ramp is long and >significantly narrower than specified when >planned. We?ve been dudded yet again by penny >pinching contractors who haven?t done what they >promised. IE, won the contract with one bid, >then substituted to save a few $$ profit. Who >are the contractors? Bombard them in some or >other fashion. Bombard the Council as well. > >I would urge list-posters who work in or around >the CBD to get onto the CBDBUG email membership >list and attend meetings. As the most active >local BUG, with a track record of achievement, >regular attendance at meetings by BCC and BQ, >who we berate or congratulate as well as >receiving their reports, questioning them and >demanding further actions, the BUG has tentacles >into most CBD and commuting route issues. > >Good luck, and thank goodness I don?t commute any more! > >J. > > >On 30/4/09 8:18 AM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: > >Hi all, > >If you haven't ridden through Coro Drive this >morning then count yourself lucky. >This morning there was a council worker standing >one end of the temporary construction >just pass the floating restaurant. He was making everyone get off their bike. >I had argument with him asking him what if >people slip walking on their cleats. >He shouted back saying a 65 year old fell >yesterday because a cyclist refuse to walk >their bike. > >What do we do now? I wonder if we should put up >road blocks on Coro Drive itself and make >motorist push their cars pass the HSL construction zone. > >Anthony Lee >The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? >........-- __o >....-- _ \<,_ >........(_) / (_) >E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au > > > > >Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser >to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now. > >. > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.9/2087 >- Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/c253e0b9/attachment-0001.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Apr 29 18:45:29 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Apr 29 18:47:37 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090430094147.N1484@singha.lister.id.au> Further to John's comments, the word from the CBD BUG meeting yesterday was that this situation is planned to exist until July, unless ATU, BQ, CBD BUG, and whoever else wants to be involved manages to convince Jude Munro to ignore the OH&S people. So if you're not happy about it, at least log some calls with the BCC call centre about how bad it is. Cheers, Ian From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Apr 29 18:55:58 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Apr 29 18:56:10 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Message-ID: <45269.1241049358@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/354764cb/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 29 19:11:19 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Wed Apr 29 19:11:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This thing is bizarre. After the endless sewer tunnel debacle, and then an all-round rather better effort at Hale Street, we're back to a 0.5 km walk along the bikeway upgrade project. Why? These things are done half-and-half or by night works on arterial road projects all the time. This is our busiest arterial bikeway, so why not here? Maybe that's supposed to read arterial walkway... And where, o'where is our peak representative body? Can you imagine Gary Fites' complexion (RACQ) if they really did try to tell motorists to get out and push their cars through the Hale Street works? Or even just try to enforce the 40k limit? Suggestions: 1. If you're a Bicycle Queensland member, ring them today and complain - 3844 1144. Ask to speak to Ben Wilson. Ask him why he's not in the local press over this. 2. Despite appearances (and that purported $100M), this is a state government funded project. Contact Premiers , Transport (Rachel Nolan), the local member (Andrew Fraser ). Remind them that they half-funded this brand new stuff-up. Ask how this effort is consistent with their oft-stated support for cycling as a valid transport mode. 3. The project is managed (and half-funded) by BCC. So contact the Lord Mayor (good luck), the local Councillor (Peter Matic, phone and email), or your own Councilor. Doubt you'll get far with the bureaucrats. 4. Who is the Contractor? Contact them direct. Ring their Brisbane office. Ask to speak to the safety officer. Ask to submit an Request For Information/Improvement form (RFI) under their safety plan. Under most plans anybody can do that, and every one must be addressed and closed out. Go with "Cleats on walkway are unsafe", or similar. 5. Contact Workplace Health and Safety. This is a clearly sub-standard facility on a workplace. They ought to know, and be interested. G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/1e1e7453/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Apr 29 19:38:55 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Apr 29 19:39:47 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <20090430094147.N1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090430094147.N1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <20090430103806.K1484@singha.lister.id.au> BTW for anybody interested who hasn't been there yet, there are some photos on the wiki: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Bicentennial_Bikeway_widening_works Ian From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 29 20:17:03 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 29 20:17:39 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090430011701.YHDK15789.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> My letter has been sent to the Lord Mayor pointing out among other things (i) the lack of ANY options other than the bikepath and (ii) that in fact it started off as a "bikeway" that now bans cycling ... primarily because BCC reduced the footpaths to almost impassable width etc. Also reminded him HE removed the other peak flow/direction option namely the bus lanes ... and that BCC ie himself, is the "Principal"...! So as BCC is (as I understand it and not as yet corrected), the contract Principal, a focus on the Lord Mayor would be useful ... Lord Mayor I also agree with Glen's analysis ... especially ... it is time to test both Andrew Fraser (who spent dollars on moving the bridge to where "nobody" uses it) and Peter Matic ... who must surely be more supportive of cycling than was his predecessor ...! Yet both seem to strongly support the NO BIKES ON THE ROAD solution to widening Macgregor Terrace Bardon for more cars ... yet it is the "missing link" between the well marked BCC "bike routes" on Latrobe Terrace and Simpsons and Coopers Camp Roads. But also send to the Premier and to the Minister for Main Roads and/or Transport (not sure if these remain separate or are now combined) as a real ongoing weakness in the SEQ integrated transport planning and decision process is the approval by the state of BCC projects NOT complying with SEQ ITP plans and/or planning ... and often not with other state plans and policies ... indeed I can't yet figure out if the HSL even provides walking ie disabled access on the north side of the river and if so, to where. The "bikeway"? The most used bikeway PLUS the peds in SEQ ...! So much for the QT Principal Bikeway Network Plan or whatever ...! Until BCC is required to comply by QT or whatever or the politicians, this stuff will continue as it has for years ... anything but integrated ... and often seemingly difficult to later integrate ... indeed it will occur more often as space for alternatives becomes less available ... Also if there is to be any media, try Westside News because I understand some staff there may even be walking their bikes too ...! MY........................... At 10:11 AM 30/04/2009, Glen Fergus wrote: >This thing is bizarre. After the endless sewer tunnel debacle, and >then an all-round rather better effort at Hale Street, we're back to >a 0.5 km walk along the bikeway upgrade project. Why? These things >are done half-and-half or by night works on arterial road projects >all the time. This is our busiest arterial bikeway, so why not >here? Maybe that's supposed to read arterial walkway... > >And where, o'where is our peak representative body? Can you imagine >Gary Fites' complexion (RACQ) if they really did try to tell >motorists to get out and push their cars through the Hale Street >works? Or even just try to enforce the 40k limit? > >Suggestions: > >1. If you're a Bicycle Queensland member, ring them today and >complain - 3844 1144. Ask to speak to Ben Wilson. Ask him why he's >not in the local press over this. >2. Despite appearances (and that purported $100M), this is a state >government funded project. Contact >Premiers, >Transport >(Rachel >Nolan), the local member (Andrew >Fraser). Remind them that they >half-funded >this brand new stuff-up. Ask how this effort is consistent with >their oft-stated support for cycling as a valid transport mode. >3. The project is managed (and half-funded) by BCC. So contact the >Lord Mayor (good luck), the local >Councillor (Peter Matic, >phone >and email), or your >own >Councilor. Doubt you'll get far with the bureaucrats. >4. Who is the Contractor? Contact them direct. Ring their >Brisbane office. Ask to speak to the safety officer. Ask to submit >an Request For Information/Improvement form (RFI) under their safety >plan. Under most plans anybody can do that, and every one must be >addressed and closed out. Go with "Cleats on walkway are unsafe", or similar. >5. Contact Workplace Health >and Safety. This is a clearly sub-standard facility on a >workplace. They ought to know, and be interested. > >G. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.9/2087 - Release Date: >04/29/09 18:03:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/371d2106/attachment-0001.htm From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Apr 29 20:32:41 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Apr 29 20:32:52 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Message-ID: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/12c3d082/attachment.htm From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 21:22:05 2009 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Wed Apr 29 21:22:25 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <20090430103806.K1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <474916.25813.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090430094147.N1484@singha.lister.id.au> <20090430103806.K1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: 2009/4/30 Ian Lister : > BTW for anybody interested who hasn't been there yet, there are some photos > on the wiki: > > ? http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Bicentennial_Bikeway_widening_works To me, that allegedly standards-compliant "detour" does not look wide enough for two people walking their bicycles in opposite directions to pass each other safely. Has anyone whipped out a tape measure and have a reading they'd like to share? And, the perennial question, just exactly what authority does the traffic controller have to a) order you to dismount or b) prevent you from riding along this pissant detour? Sebastian From listjunkie at pobox.com Wed Apr 29 21:35:10 2009 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Wed Apr 29 21:31:53 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On 30 Apr 2009, at 11:32 AM, Daniel Young wrote: > Hi Michael and all, > > Just one thing to note- I have noticed previously that there are > cycling "detour" signs up around this area, implying that the > walkway can be avoided. I haven't followed the detour, does anybody > know what it is? The "detour" is go up the park Rd ramp, cross at lights (3 sets, walk of course, don't ride), ride along the coro drive inbound-side footpath to cribb st, cross again (dismount twice) down ramp back onto bicentennial jogway. > I assumed it would be something that involves cycling through > Milton, then coming back to Coro Dr at a later point (obviously > crossing (and dismounting)) at pedestrian lights to re-join the > bikeway. This might be brought up since you mentioned "the lack of > ANY options". Yeah, in their eyes they've "provided" a detour (involving 5 separate pedestrian crossings), so cries of "no option" will not get anyone very far. If I was still riding to the CBD every day, I'd give St Lucia a hard look. --chris From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Apr 29 21:35:15 2009 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Apr 29 21:35:40 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <20090430023513.DUBP15789.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks Daniel ... Again the issue is providing a CYCLING detour so one suggestion I put to the LM suggested using the appropriate ramps with cycling crossings (which could then stay for ever) at the traffic lights and either creating another permanent option eg bike lanes, bus lanes ( ...;-)) etc on Coro Drive ... there are lots of "solutions" ... Dismounting is not one of the "solutions" ... esp not at ped crossings deliberately designed to NOT suit cyclists ... esp not where connecting to/from bikepaths ... and since ALL footpaths are shared paths, all footpaths at all ped crossings ..! But the point really is about the BCC policy and its attitude to cycling ... namely the level of service needs to be maintained even if at a lower level ie narrow but not substandard and in particular, cycling not BANNED ... unless there is a similar level-of-service option ... so some might use that, while others might walk their bikes. What it really shows up is the problem with accepting (as BQ appears to do) the emphasis of the current BCC admin on $100m bikepaths which are usually shared footpaths so a poor level-of-service for cyclists if used by many peds, but more importantly, the fact there is NO well connected useful signed bike route in the sector between Sylvan Road and its connection to the Western Freeway and north of Waterworks Road ... and the only other connection is the HUGE detour via UQ along the "river route" and/or use of the Schonell Bridge ... to get to the western suburbs south of the river eg Chelmer and beyond ... and NONE south of the river other than the discontinuous "river ride". It is worth noting that this is the result of a similar emphasis on cycling on bikepaths by the Soorley admin in the mid-1990s .. recorded in letters in "Australian Cyclist" and elsewhere eg BQ (?) where Cr Maureen Hayes successfully tried to split the cycling interests into those who went along with BCC and those who she claimed had an "on road at any cost" approach ... drawing on the fear of cycling on roads. The result is well known to those of us around at the time ... and continues ... although to help BCC then get out of that position, the "yellow BIKEs" were adopted and to its credit, supported by BCC ... to help show the well used bike routes and to encourage cycling on other on road routes. If BCC can't provide a suitable level-of-service for cyclists on its paths, then in other words, it is time for much more emphasis and dollars for far more useful facilities on the road ... signed bike routes ... "yellow BIKEs" or bike lanes ... "sharing the road" ... to reflect the need for a "cycle route network" that reflects desire lines and not just the views of motorists. Others (Glen?) may know some unsigned and unmarked back routes as options to Coro Drive ... including some favourites for the Magpies ...! So perhaps these and others should be permanently identified and signed/marked by BCC as part of providing permanent alternative cycling facilities ... and in this case, as part of the HSL and the path widening projects. As Glen noted, imagine Gary Fites of the RACQ if these roads were blocked and use banned .. rather than motorists being asked to slow down a bit ...! MY...................... At 11:32 AM 30/04/2009, Daniel Young wrote: >Hi Michael and all, > >Just one thing to note- I have noticed previously that there are >cycling "detour" signs up around this area, implying that the >walkway can be avoided. I haven't followed the detour, does anybody >know what it is? I assumed it would be something that involves >cycling through Milton, then coming back to Coro Dr at a later point >(obviously crossing (and dismounting)) at pedestrian lights to >re-join the bikeway. This might be brought up since you mentioned >"the lack of ANY options". I was considering going that way today >to try out the detour, but it's left such a bad taste in my mouth >that I'm going to avoid the area altogether. > >cheers, >Daniel. > >On Thu Apr 30 11:17 , Michael Yeates sent: > >My letter has been sent to the Lord Mayor pointing out among other >things (i) the lack of ANY options other than the bikepath and (ii) >that in fact it started off as a "bikeway" that now bans cycling ... >primarily because BCC reduced the footpaths to almost impassable width etc. > >Also reminded him HE removed the other peak flow/direction option >namely the bus lanes ... and that BCC ie himself, is the "Principal"...! > >So as BCC is (as I understand it and not as yet corrected), the >contract Principal, a focus on the Lord Mayor would be useful ... > > Lord Mayor > >I also agree with Glen's analysis ... especially ... it is time to >test both Andrew Fraser (who spent dollars on moving the bridge to >where "nobody" uses it) and Peter Matic ... who must surely be more >supportive of cycling than was his predecessor ...! > >Yet both seem to strongly support the NO BIKES ON THE ROAD solution >to widening Macgregor Terrace Bardon for more cars ... yet it is >the "missing link" between the well marked BCC "bike routes" on >Latrobe Terrace and Simpsons and Coopers Camp Roads. > >But also send to the Premier and to the Minister for Main Roads >and/or Transport (not sure if these remain separate or are now >combined) as a real ongoing weakness in the SEQ integrated transport >planning and decision process is the approval by the state of BCC >projects NOT complying with SEQ ITP plans and/or planning ... and >often not with other state plans and policies ... indeed I can't yet >figure out if the HSL even provides walking ie disabled access on >the north side of the river and if so, to where. The "bikeway"? The >most used bikeway PLUS the peds in SEQ ...! So much for the QT >Principal Bikeway Network Plan or whatever ...! > >Until BCC is required to comply by QT or whatever or the >politicians, this stuff will continue as it has for years ... >anything but integrated ... and often seemingly difficult to later >integrate ... indeed it will occur more often as space for >alternatives becomes less available ... > >Also if there is to be any media, try Westside News because I >understand some staff there may even be walking their bikes too ...! > >MY........................... > >At 10:11 AM 30/04/2009, Glen Fergus wrote: > >>This thing is bizarre. After the endless sewer tunnel debacle, and >>then an all-round rather better effort at Hale Street, we're back >>to a 0.5 km walk along the bikeway upgrade project. Why? These >>things are done half-and-half or by night works on arterial road >>projects all the time. This is our busiest arterial bikeway, so >>why not here? Maybe that's supposed to read arterial walkway... >> >>And where, o'where is our peak representative body? Can you >>imagine Gary Fites' complexion (RACQ) if they really did try to >>tell motorists to get out and push their cars through the Hale >>Street works? Or even just try to enforce the 40k limit? >> >>Suggestions: >> >>1. If you're a Bicycle Queensland member, ring them today and >>complain - 3844 1144. Ask to speak to Ben Wilson. Ask him why >>he's not in the local press over this. >>2. Despite appearances (and that purported $100M), this is a state >>government funded project. Contact >>Premiers, >>Transport >>( >>Rachel Nolan), the local member >>(Andrew Fraser). Remind them that >>they >>half-funded >>this brand new stuff-up. Ask how this effort is consistent with >>their oft-stated support for cycling as a valid transport mode. >>3. The project is managed (and half-funded) by BCC. So contact >>the Lord Mayor (good luck), the >>local Councillor (Peter Matic, >>phone >> and email), or your >>own >>Councilor. Doubt you'll get far with the bureaucrats. >>4. Who is the Contractor? Contact them direct. Ring their >>Brisbane office. Ask to speak to the safety officer. Ask to >>submit an Request For Information/Improvement form (RFI) under >>their safety plan. Under most plans anybody can do that, and every >>one must be addressed and closed out. Go with "Cleats on walkway >>are unsafe", or similar. >>5. Contact Workplace Health >>and Safety. This is a clearly sub-standard facility on a >>workplace. They ought to know, and be interested. >> >>G. >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.9/2087 - Release Date: >>04/29/09 18:03:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.9/2087 - Release Date: >04/29/09 18:03:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/052a7614/attachment-0001.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Apr 29 22:48:23 2009 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Apr 29 22:52:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0706B4CC5A@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> On the outbound, for those who don't mind a bit of traffic interaction, you can go from King George Square on Ann St, up Roma St, down Milton Road, left on Cribb St, R on Railway Tce, L on Park Road, then wind your way up to Sylvan Road. Ditto in reverse, except when you get to Cribb St, go right, then L on Little Cribb St, then R on the path through the park to the tunnel on the Bicentennial BIKEWAY Or (for that matter), down Cribb St to Coro Drive, along Coro Drive to the L exit up to Roma St and the Grey St Bridge. Pete -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Christopher Biggs Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:35 PM To: entropic@iinet.net.au Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive On 30 Apr 2009, at 11:32 AM, Daniel Young wrote: > Hi Michael and all, > > Just one thing to note- I have noticed previously that there are > cycling "detour" signs up around this area, implying that the > walkway can be avoided. I haven't followed the detour, does anybody > know what it is? The "detour" is go up the park Rd ramp, cross at lights (3 sets, walk of course, don't ride), ride along the coro drive inbound-side footpath to cribb st, cross again (dismount twice) down ramp back onto bicentennial jogway. > I assumed it would be something that involves cycling through > Milton, then coming back to Coro Dr at a later point (obviously > crossing (and dismounting)) at pedestrian lights to re-join the > bikeway. This might be brought up since you mentioned "the lack of > ANY options". Yeah, in their eyes they've "provided" a detour (involving 5 separate pedestrian crossings), so cries of "no option" will not get anyone very far. If I was still riding to the CBD every day, I'd give St Lucia a hard look. --chris _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Apr 29 23:01:50 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Apr 29 23:02:04 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <265821.67390.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks John. I am on the CBDBUG mailing list but because I am not actually in the CBD I find it hard to get time to go. So what do you think is the best use of my time? Hold up a banner on one or the other end of the ramp to tell him to bombard the Lord Mayor office or should I just ride through South Brisbane and give up Coro Drive as a bad joke? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: John Nightingale To: Anthony Lee ; BIQ ; Uni Cycle Sent: Thursday, 30 April, 2009 9:17:36 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Those of us who attended the CBDBUG meeting yesterday had a discussion with Mr. J. Lee of the BCC Active Transport Unit. The discussion became a little lively. Mr Lee blamed the project venturers? OH&S people for the ?dismount? order. Further development will include correspondence to the BCC?s CEO and Lord Mayor. Discussion of a possible direct action ? mass cycling on Corro Drive at peak of peak hour was suggested ? occurred informally. Rider anger will be unrestrained, the ramp is long and significantly narrower than specified when planned. We?ve been dudded yet again by penny pinching contractors who haven?t done what they promised. IE, won the contract with one bid, then substituted to save a few $$ profit. Who are the contractors? Bombard them in some or other fashion. Bombard the Council as well. I would urge list-posters who work in or around the CBD to get onto the CBDBUG email membership list and attend meetings. As the most active local BUG, with a track record of achievement, regular attendance at meetings by BCC and BQ, who we berate or congratulate as well as receiving their reports, questioning them and demanding further actions, the BUG has tentacles into most CBD and commuting route issues. Good luck, and thank goodness I don?t commute any more! J. On 30/4/09 8:18 AM, "Anthony Lee" wrote: Hi all, If you haven't ridden through Coro Drive this morning then count yourself lucky. This morning there was a council worker standing one end of the temporary construction just pass the floating restaurant. He was making everyone get off their bike. I had argument with him asking him what if people slip walking on their cleats. He shouted back saying a 65 year old fell yesterday because a cyclist refuse to walk their bike. What do we do now? I wonder if we should put up road blocks on Coro Drive itself and make motorist push their cars pass the HSL construction zone. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8. Get it now. . ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090429/f4905f93/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Wed Apr 29 23:11:18 2009 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Wed Apr 29 23:11:28 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> Just eyeballed the "detour". Basically it's along the northern Coro Drive footpath, although two outbound cyclists appeared to have been directed to the southern Coro footpath by the traffic controller while I was there. Ian's photos on the wiki are of the southern footpath, which is totally unsuitable for cycling IMO. It's barely wide enough for a ped. They would have to lean hard against the fence to let an oncoming bike pass. Joggers are already using this route in numbers because they're supposedly not allowed to run along the scaffold. The northern footpath detour is better, but the path is barely 1m wide in places and is already quite busy with pedestrians. The city-end access is signed via the tunnel, so that saves two of your ped crossings. I observe: 1. Given that traffic counts show roughly twice as many bikes as peds on the bikeway, why wouldn't you divert the peds to the FOOTpath and let the bikes cycle straight through? Is this the Bicentennial Bikeway, or WALKWAY ?!! 2. Amusingly, the detours appear to be in technical breach of the Queensland Road Rules, for reasons outlined here before. (The argument goes that while there is no specific rule against footpath cycling in Queensland, the rule that says that drivers (including cyclist) must keep to the left side of the road still applies. So technically you can't cycle outbound on the northern Coro footpath, nor inbound on the southern.) 3. The scaffold detour is just on 2m wide, and is totally unsuitable for thousands of ped and bike movements per day as indicated by the traffic counts. That would be enough to shut the job down if I was running it. 4. The flimsy paper "Cyclists Dismount" signs do not appear to comply with the Road Rules or MUTCD, and so are unenforceable. Ditto the "No Running or Jogging" signs. I'd also venture that a direction from a contract traffic controller is likely to be unenforceable too. So if you wanted to ride through, in theory you probably could. Expect abuse. 5. The works they've started this afternoon appear to be some simple excavation for a low retaining wall on the Coro side of the path. No obvious reason why this couldn't have been done as night works, with a night detour or (better) night-only one-way traffic control. That would have saved a half kilometre of scaffold, and much angst. 6. I still don't know who the Contractor is. Some try-hard tiddler, I'd venture. G. > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Christopher Biggs > Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:35 PM > To: entropic@iinet.net.au > Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive > > > On 30 Apr 2009, at 11:32 AM, Daniel Young wrote: > > > Hi Michael and all, > > > > Just one thing to note- I have noticed previously that there are > > cycling "detour" signs up around this area, implying that the > > walkway can be avoided. I haven't followed the detour, > does anybody > > know what it is? > > The "detour" is go up the park Rd ramp, cross at lights (3 > sets, walk > of course, don't ride), ride along the coro drive inbound-side > footpath to cribb st, cross again (dismount twice) down ramp > back onto > bicentennial jogway. > > > I assumed it would be something that involves cycling through > > Milton, then coming back to Coro Dr at a later point (obviously > > crossing (and dismounting)) at pedestrian lights to re-join the > > bikeway. This might be brought up since you mentioned "the > lack of > > ANY options". > > Yeah, in their eyes they've "provided" a detour (involving 5 > separate > pedestrian crossings), so cries of "no option" will not get anyone > very far. > > If I was still riding to the CBD every day, I'd give St Lucia a hard > look. > > --chris > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From entropic at iinet.net.au Wed Apr 29 23:21:31 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Wed Apr 29 23:22:14 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive Message-ID: <31564.1241065291@iinet.net.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/74e95f7b/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Apr 30 03:02:54 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Apr 30 03:07:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> Message-ID: <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/030e2479/attachment-0001.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Apr 30 04:37:35 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Thu Apr 30 04:38:07 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> Not sure those signs are official MUTCD ones. They are yellow so I think they only have advisory status. It's a stupid situation but I did get some mild amusement this morning when I noticed that I was the only cyclist who did not walk my bike. It was 0830 so very busy and there was no opportunity to overtake for the entire length of the scaffold. I just cycled along at walking pace. Quite pleasantly relaxing really. The workers down on the asphalt shouted at me to walk, thererby enhancing my amusement. Others at work reported the same phenomenon (shouting workers on the other side of the fence) when they rode through. On the way home there are no traffic controllers so it's about 50/50 riding or walking their bikes. Plenty of joggers were jogging. I wonder if the "cyclists dismount" thing is really because they know they have erected a structure which is not "Fit for Purpose". They have to cover themselves by requiring cyclists to become pedestrians. The extra couple of minutes added to my journey along here don't really bother me but I am concerned that there will soon be an incident or a complaint that will impose even more unnecessary restrictions. There are worse parts of my journey than this. Just after the scaffold I turn left to go through the tunnel because I am headed for 57 Coro Drive. This requires me to cross the beginning of Hale St. That really is a nightmare. Hardly anybody adheres to the 40 kph limit and very few who are turning from Coro Drive into Hale St use their indicators. The barriers erected around the site make visibility very poor and crossing here is little better than Russian Roulette. There is also a lot of pedestrian traffic and the Coro Dr footpath from Hale St inbound is very narrow, even without the barriers they have put up. This is where traffic controllers and visible policing are genuinely necessary but there's Buckley's chance of that ever happening. Mick On 30/04/2009, at 18:02 , kim wrote: > I had my first ride along there this afternoon. I did not notice any > dismount signs travelling inbound and there was a traffic controller > there who simply had his back turned looking out over the river. I > looked to him for a nod or an instruction of some sort but he did > not turn around and so I just rode along behind another cyclist > doing the same. It was not until I got to the city end that I > noticed the cyclist in front dismount and I saw some overhead paper > signs. It seemed a little odd to have signs at just one end. So I > did check it out more closely on my way back, outbound. There is in > fact an 'official' MUTCD design dismount sign at the city end and so > I dismounted for that. I then noticed all of the makeshift paper > signs overhead and in fact there was one at the Towong end on a > fence which I must have missed seeing. There is no 'official' MUTCD > design sign at the Toowong end. Any punter could have come along and > whipped up some paper signs on a laser printer. So perhaps you are > legally obliged to dismount travelling outbound but not inbound. I > think the treatment is wrong in other respects also. I think > technically there should be some end End Shared Path type signs and > a No Bicycles sign if they want to effect a No Bicycle zone. The > dismount sign is pretty vague as to where it applies, ie for what > length. The paper signs, while obviously unofficial, are also > totally useless at night as they are not reflective. > > I agree with Glen's observations and comments, I can't understand > why a pedestrian detour was not implemented given that there are two > footpath options and associated pedestrian crossing facilities where > necessary. The current detour requires that the cyclists also > dismount and take on pedestrian status on the cross walks. Cyclists > really do seem to draw the short straw up against both motorists and > pedestrians, kinda third rate citizens. > Queensland Transport did tell me some time ago that the law provides > for a fine of up to $1500 for riding in the wrong direction on a > footpath. The Australian Road Rules were changed to allow riding in > both directions but the QRR did not adopt those changes. Last I > heard was that they were going to enact the changes last month with > the last round of road rule changes but when I checked some months > back I could see no proposed legislation changes and QT was of > little help. > > I reckon that a request to the OH&S Workcover folk would be the best > bet and force them to make an audit of the site. You have to have > some personal grievance in order to get some feedback or they will > investigate but tell you nothing. You need to ask them to advise you > if and when it is safe to re-visit the site of which you complain. > > At least this time they have taken to warning cyclists about > pedestrians with metal bars like the old codger that clobbered > Anthony last time on the sewer works - I noticed some Watch Your > Head signs above the detour too :) > > k > > Glen Fergus wrote: >> >> Just eyeballed the "detour". Basically it's along the northern Coro >> Drive footpath, although two outbound cyclists appeared to have been >> directed to the southern Coro footpath by the traffic controller >> while I was there. >> >> Ian's photos on the wiki are of the southern footpath, which is >> totally unsuitable for cycling IMO. It's barely wide enough for a >> ped. They would have to lean hard against the fence to let an >> oncoming bike pass. Joggers are already using this route in numbers >> because they're supposedly not allowed to run along the scaffold. >> >> The northern footpath detour is better, but the path is barely 1m >> wide in places and is already quite busy with pedestrians. The >> city-end access is signed via the tunnel, so that saves two of your >> ped crossings. >> >> I observe: >> >> 1. Given that traffic counts show roughly twice as many bikes as >> peds on the bikeway, why wouldn't you divert the peds to the >> FOOTpath and let the bikes cycle straight through? Is this the >> Bicentennial Bikeway, or WALKWAY ?!! >> >> 2. Amusingly, the detours appear to be in technical breach of >> the Queensland Road Rules, for reasons outlined here before. (The >> argument goes that while there is no specific rule against footpath >> cycling in Queensland, the rule that says that drivers (including >> cyclist) must keep to the left side of the road still applies. So >> technically you can't cycle outbound on the northern Coro footpath, >> nor inbound on the southern.) >> >> 3. The scaffold detour is just on 2m wide, and is totally >> unsuitable for thousands of ped and bike movements per day as >> indicated by the traffic counts. That would be enough to shut >> the job down if I was running it. >> >> 4. The flimsy paper "Cyclists Dismount" signs do not appear to >> comply with the Road Rules or MUTCD, and so are unenforceable. >> Ditto the "No Running or Jogging" signs. I'd also venture that >> a direction from a contract traffic controller is likely to be >> unenforceable too. So if you wanted to ride through, in theory >> you probably could. Expect abuse. >> >> 5. The works they've started this afternoon appear to be some >> simple excavation for a low retaining wall on the Coro side of >> the path. No obvious reason why this couldn't have been done as >> night works, with a night detour or (better) night-only one-way >> traffic control. That would have saved a half kilometre of >> scaffold, and much angst. >> >> 6. I still don't know who the Contractor is. Some try-hard >> tiddler, I'd venture. >> >> G. >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >>> [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Christopher >>> Biggs >>> Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:35 PM >>> To: entropic@iinet.net.au >>> Cc: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>> Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive >>> >>> >>> On 30 Apr 2009, at 11:32 AM, Daniel Young wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>> >>>> Just one thing to note- I have noticed previously that there are >>>> cycling "detour" signs up around this area, implying that the >>>> walkway can be avoided. I haven't followed the detour, >>>> >>> does anybody >>> >>>> know what it is? >>>> >>> The "detour" is go up the park Rd ramp, cross at lights (3 >>> sets, walk >>> of course, don't ride), ride along the coro drive inbound-side >>> footpath to cribb st, cross again (dismount twice) down ramp >>> back onto >>> bicentennial jogway. >>> >>> >>>> I assumed it would be something that involves cycling through >>>> Milton, then coming back to Coro Dr at a later point (obviously >>>> crossing (and dismounting)) at pedestrian lights to re-join the >>>> bikeway. This might be brought up since you mentioned "the >>>> >>> lack of >>> >>>> ANY options". >>>> >>> Yeah, in their eyes they've "provided" a detour (involving 5 >>> separate >>> pedestrian crossings), so cries of "no option" will not get anyone >>> very far. >>> >>> If I was still riding to the CBD every day, I'd give St Lucia a hard >>> look. >>> >>> --chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bikeqld mailing list >>> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/75857878/attachment.htm From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Apr 30 05:50:45 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Apr 30 05:55:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> Hi Mick, I didn't notice any of the yellow and black advisory dismounts this time, that was certainly the case with the sewer works detour tho and the Council did eventually concede that they were not enforcible and that their contract controllers had no legal right to enforce this when these signs were used. I only noted one black and white dismount at the city end and of course the assortment of paper signs. I have yet to see how the whole detour looks at night too. I think the whole idea of the workers having to get involved and start yelling at cyclists is wrong and a safety concern in itself, that is a job for the controllers at best. Michael Fanning wrote: > Not sure those signs are official MUTCD ones. They are yellow so I > think they only have advisory status. It's a stupid situation but I > did get some mild amusement this morning when I noticed that I was the > only cyclist who did not walk my bike. It was 0830 so very busy and > there was no opportunity to overtake for the entire length of the > scaffold. I just cycled along at walking pace. Quite pleasantly > relaxing really. The workers down on the asphalt shouted at me to > walk, thererby enhancing my amusement. Others at work reported the > same phenomenon (shouting workers on the other side of the fence) when > they rode through. On the way home there are no traffic controllers so > it's about 50/50 riding or walking their bikes. Plenty of joggers were > jogging. > > I wonder if the "cyclists dismount" thing is really because they know > they have erected a structure which is not "Fit for Purpose". They > have to cover themselves by requiring cyclists to become pedestrians. > > The extra couple of minutes added to my journey along here don't > really bother me but I am concerned that there will soon be an > incident or a complaint that will impose even more unnecessary > restrictions. There are worse parts of my journey than this. Just > after the scaffold I turn left to go through the tunnel because I am > headed for 57 Coro Drive. This requires me to cross the beginning of > Hale St. That really is a nightmare. Hardly anybody adheres to the 40 > kph limit and very few who are turning from Coro Drive into Hale St > use their indicators. The barriers erected around the site make > visibility very poor and crossing here is little better than Russian > Roulette. There is also a lot of pedestrian traffic and the Coro Dr > footpath from Hale St inbound is very narrow, even without the > barriers they have put up. This is where traffic controllers and > visible policing are genuinely necessary but there's Buckley's chance > of that ever happening. > > Mick > From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Apr 30 06:01:18 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:05:21 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] ... while on the topic of shonky signs Message-ID: <49F984FE.6030703@teegee.com.au> Has anyone noticed how the pavement markings on our brand new $20M+ overpass and ramps at Toowong have virtually vanished after just a few months of bicycle only traffic? Not too surprising with them being made with ordinary white acrylic paint, nothing special about that. What's the thinking too behind using white paint on white concrete anyway? I guess its just about how it looks for the ribbon cutting and little to do with function or value for money. The BCC adopt exactly the same philosophy with the last white bike touch up they did on the newer section of bikeway at North Quay; they lasted for two months at best, depending on how discerning you are. It must be so good not having to worry about all those things like durability, safety and responsibility, oh for a simple life - wo is me. k From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Apr 30 06:17:19 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:17:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Kim, I only saw yellow ones today but there might be black and white ones. Makes no difference to me because I like to show a good example to the kiddies by riding responsibly. Cyclists Dismount signs go into the same bucket as the helmet laws as far as I'm concerned. My kids are taught to ride appropriately in the presence of pedestrians. That includes riding across crossings, unless a policemanperson is watching :) But the last I heard, these signs were removed from the MUTCD a few years ago. Anybody else know for sure? Mick On 30/04/2009, at 20:50 , kim wrote: > Hi Mick, I didn't notice any of the yellow and black advisory > dismounts this time, that was certainly the case with the sewer > works detour tho and the Council did eventually concede that they > were not enforcible and that their contract controllers had no legal > right to enforce this when these signs were used. I only noted one > black and white dismount at the city end and of course the > assortment of paper signs. I have yet to see how the whole detour > looks at night too. I think the whole idea of the workers having to > get involved and start yelling at cyclists is wrong and a safety > concern in itself, that is a job for the controllers at best. > > Michael Fanning wrote: >> Not sure those signs are official MUTCD ones. They are yellow so I >> think they only have advisory status. It's a stupid situation but I >> did get some mild amusement this morning when I noticed that I was >> the only cyclist who did not walk my bike. It was 0830 so very busy >> and there was no opportunity to overtake for the entire length of >> the scaffold. I just cycled along at walking pace. Quite pleasantly >> relaxing really. The workers down on the asphalt shouted at me to >> walk, thererby enhancing my amusement. Others at work reported the >> same phenomenon (shouting workers on the other side of the fence) >> when they rode through. On the way home there are no traffic >> controllers so it's about 50/50 riding or walking their bikes. >> Plenty of joggers were jogging. >> >> I wonder if the "cyclists dismount" thing is really because they >> know they have erected a structure which is not "Fit for Purpose". >> They have to cover themselves by requiring cyclists to become >> pedestrians. >> >> The extra couple of minutes added to my journey along here don't >> really bother me but I am concerned that there will soon be an >> incident or a complaint that will impose even more unnecessary >> restrictions. There are worse parts of my journey than this. Just >> after the scaffold I turn left to go through the tunnel because I >> am headed for 57 Coro Drive. This requires me to cross the >> beginning of Hale St. That really is a nightmare. Hardly anybody >> adheres to the 40 kph limit and very few who are turning from Coro >> Drive into Hale St use their indicators. The barriers erected >> around the site make visibility very poor and crossing here is >> little better than Russian Roulette. There is also a lot of >> pedestrian traffic and the Coro Dr footpath from Hale St inbound is >> very narrow, even without the barriers they have put up. This is >> where traffic controllers and visible policing are genuinely >> necessary but there's Buckley's chance of that ever happening. >> >> Mick >> > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Apr 30 06:36:41 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:36:54 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] reported crash this morning In-Reply-To: <20090428221138.PZLR27.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20090428221138.PZLR27.nskntotgx02p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <6BB27441-84E4-404F-8B69-B5A15D7E6DC8@bigpond.com> Hello Michael, Not sure if this is the one you are asking about, but I witnessed something at around 0840 near the old Media Credit Union on Benson St, just before the Archer St crossing. A young male was racing at breakneck speed, weaving around pedestrians and light poles along the Benson St section of the shared pathway until he came up on an inexperienced looking lycra cyclist who was negotiating the bend just before the Archer St crossing. There was a cyclist coming from the city direction and the inbound cyclist attempted to go left to let him through, but was thwarted by the aforementioned youth who tried to pass him on the left at speed. This guy was out of control and it wouldn't surprise me if he caused something at Kayes Rocks as well. Seconds before the prang, I watched this fellow scatter two pedestrians who were in his way. Mick On 29/04/2009, at 08:11 , Michael Yeates wrote: > > I have just been advised of a crash involving a cyclist in the area > near Kayes Rocks' ... maybe on the approaches to the traffic lights > on Brisbane Street Toowong. > > Could anyone who went past or knows about a reported crash said to > have involved a cyclist let me know of any details please? > > Thanks ... > > MY................ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Apr 30 06:36:18 2009 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:37:05 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> The sign Kim is referring to is visible in this photo: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Bicentennial_widening_outbound_approach_20090429.jpg It's a G9-58 "Cyclists Dismount" sign. MUTCD says "This sign should be used where necessary to remind cyclists that they are required to dismount before crossing a road on a pedestrian crossing, a children's crossing or a marked pedestrian crosswalk at traffic signals. The sign may also be used to warn cyclists to dismount before reaching a particular place at or beyond it would be hazardous to continue riding. A second sign indicating the reason for the warning should, where appropriate, be mounted below this sign." So although it is a black and white sign I don't believe it has any regulatory value; it may be used only as a reminder of an existing regulation or as an advisory warning of a hazard. This sign is similar to the older, black and white "Cyclists must dismount to cross road" sign, which was removed from MUTCD some years ago. Regardless of any of that, it's bizarre that the sign is at one end of the walkway but not the other. Ian On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Michael Fanning wrote: > Hi Kim, I only saw yellow ones today but there might be black and white ones. > Makes no difference to me because I like to show a good example to the > kiddies by riding responsibly. Cyclists Dismount signs go into the same > bucket as the helmet laws as far as I'm concerned. My kids are taught to ride > appropriately in the presence of pedestrians. That includes riding across > crossings, unless a policemanperson is watching :) > > But the last I heard, these signs were removed from the MUTCD a few years > ago. Anybody else know for sure? > > Mick From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Apr 30 06:51:37 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:51:49 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> Thanks Ian, I must have missed that, not that it makes any difference to me :) I think it's important to determine whether this sign really has any legal status. It is inevitable that someone will complain about cyclists flouting this directive. Mick On 30/04/2009, at 21:36 , Ian Lister wrote: > The sign Kim is referring to is visible in this photo: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Bicentennial_widening_outbound_approach_20090429.jpg > > It's a G9-58 "Cyclists Dismount" sign. MUTCD says "This sign should > be used where necessary to remind cyclists that they are required to > dismount before crossing a road on a pedestrian crossing, a > children's crossing or a marked pedestrian crosswalk at traffic > signals. The sign may also be used to warn cyclists to dismount > before reaching a particular place at or beyond it would be > hazardous to continue riding. A second sign indicating the reason > for the warning should, where appropriate, be mounted below this > sign." > > So although it is a black and white sign I don't believe it has any > regulatory value; it may be used only as a reminder of an existing > regulation or as an advisory warning of a hazard. > > This sign is similar to the older, black and white "Cyclists must > dismount to cross road" sign, which was removed from MUTCD some > years ago. > > Regardless of any of that, it's bizarre that the sign is at one end > of the walkway but not the other. > > Ian > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Michael Fanning wrote: >> Hi Kim, I only saw yellow ones today but there might be black and >> white ones. Makes no difference to me because I like to show a good >> example to the kiddies by riding responsibly. Cyclists Dismount >> signs go into the same bucket as the helmet laws as far as I'm >> concerned. My kids are taught to ride appropriately in the presence >> of pedestrians. That includes riding across crossings, unless a >> policemanperson is watching :) >> >> But the last I heard, these signs were removed from the MUTCD a few >> years ago. Anybody else know for sure? >> >> Mick > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From entropic at iinet.net.au Thu Apr 30 06:55:55 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Thu Apr 30 06:58:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> Message-ID: <49F991CB.7030906@iinet.net.au> Ian - was that photo really taken yesterday (29th)? I could swear that black and white sign was not there when I rode outbound yesterday afternoon around 4.30pm, just the paper ones that you see once you are actually on the walkway. I was looking very carefully, as the (correct) cynic in me had expected to see cyclists dismount signs. Perhaps some angry cyclist had already torn it down, it might explain why others don't remember seeing this sign ;) Ian Lister wrote: > The sign Kim is referring to is visible in this photo: > > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Bicentennial_widening_outbound_approach_20090429.jpg > > > It's a G9-58 "Cyclists Dismount" sign. MUTCD says "This sign should be > used where necessary to remind cyclists that they are required to > dismount before crossing a road on a pedestrian crossing, a children's > crossing or a marked pedestrian crosswalk at traffic signals. The sign > may also be used to warn cyclists to dismount before reaching a > particular place at or beyond it would be hazardous to continue > riding. A second sign indicating the reason for the warning should, > where appropriate, be mounted below this sign." > > So although it is a black and white sign I don't believe it has any > regulatory value; it may be used only as a reminder of an existing > regulation or as an advisory warning of a hazard. > > This sign is similar to the older, black and white "Cyclists must > dismount to cross road" sign, which was removed from MUTCD some years > ago. > > Regardless of any of that, it's bizarre that the sign is at one end of > the walkway but not the other. > > Ian > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Michael Fanning wrote: >> Hi Kim, I only saw yellow ones today but there might be black and >> white ones. Makes no difference to me because I like to show a good >> example to the kiddies by riding responsibly. Cyclists Dismount signs >> go into the same bucket as the helmet laws as far as I'm concerned. >> My kids are taught to ride appropriately in the presence of >> pedestrians. That includes riding across crossings, unless a >> policemanperson is watching :) >> >> But the last I heard, these signs were removed from the MUTCD a few >> years ago. Anybody else know for sure? >> >> Mick > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From entropic at iinet.net.au Thu Apr 30 07:03:07 2009 From: entropic at iinet.net.au (Daniel Young) Date: Thu Apr 30 07:05:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <49F9937B.7000503@iinet.net.au> Hi Mick, You are right that the legal status of the sign is important, but even if it's just a warning sign, it's presence is significant. If there is any accident involving a cyclist who isn't dismounted, they would probably cop all negligence rather than the people responsible for this substandard detour. And it just "looks bad" to have cyclists ignoring these warning signs, regardless of the legal status, or whether it's just as safe as walking, or safer... soon enough it will probably appear on extra, or the news, or a so-called "current affairs" show, painting us as demons. These reasons are why I would rather avoid the area (but still complain in the hope that something changes). The idea of "protest" rides on Coro Dr is worth pursuing and if the CBD BUG can organise something I'd be interested to join that one day. Michael Fanning wrote: > Thanks Ian, > > I must have missed that, not that it makes any difference to me :) > > I think it's important to determine whether this sign really has any > legal status. It is inevitable that someone will complain about > cyclists flouting this directive. > > Mick > > From kim at teegee.com.au Thu Apr 30 07:10:05 2009 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Thu Apr 30 07:14:09 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <49F9951D.9050106@teegee.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/7699ab78/attachment-0001.htm From cameraperson at bigpond.com Thu Apr 30 07:46:14 2009 From: cameraperson at bigpond.com (Michael Fanning) Date: Thu Apr 30 07:46:36 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Bike NAZIs on Coro Drive In-Reply-To: <49F9951D.9050106@teegee.com.au> References: <35880.1241055161@iinet.net.au> <82590B1FC150416CAF7204C09B2FC28F@golder.gds> <49F95B2E.9050207@teegee.com.au> <2B40A419-8512-4D63-8CFD-203248556BAE@bigpond.com> <49F98285.6070109@teegee.com.au> <20090430212859.S1484@singha.lister.id.au> <5C9554EA-35DD-421A-89CF-042AD0A07099@bigpond.com> <49F9951D.9050106@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <860FC69C-EAE3-4634-8DC0-C21A1CEF9FEE@bigpond.com> Kim, I'm sure nobody on this list has any doubts about council intentions regarding cyclists, even if some of us are distracted right now by the spectacle of Barnaby Joyce and Peter Garrett sitting side by side on national television. But as for the BCC being interested about cyclists or pedestrians travelling to the city from the west, or anywhere else for that matter, get real. Have a look at my post about conditions on the other side of Coro drive. The Lord Mayor might be interested (no irony intended here - I really believe he supports it in his own strange way) but the bureaucrats who run things do not. Mick On 30/04/2009, at 22:10 , kim wrote: > I think Mick, that probably is important too from a legal liability > standpoint, but more important I believe, is sorting out the intent > of the signage. Does BCC really want to ban cyclists from that > section for the duration of the project or are they just happy for > the majority of users to believe that cyclists are banned there. > That is exactly what happened at Auchenflower last time; the BCC was > in no position to commit to banning cycles as it required too many > other things be done to comply with the laws so they did it in a > half hearted way and relied on the public and the traffic > controllers to get stuck into the cyclists and then the BCC simply > blamed them and said they were out of order when their bluff was > called and they were threatened with legal action. > > k > > > Michael Fanning wrote: >> >> Thanks Ian, >> >> I must have missed that, not that it makes any difference to me :) >> >> I think it's important to determine whether this sign really has >> any legal status. It is inevitable that someone will complain about >> cyclists flouting this directive. >> >> Mick >> >> >> On 30/04/2009, at 21:36 , Ian Lister wrote: >> >>> The sign Kim is referring to is visible in this photo: >>> >>> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Image:Bicentennial_widening_outbound_approach_20090429.jpg >>> >>> It's a G9-58 "Cyclists Dismount" sign. MUTCD says "This sign >>> should be used where necessary to remind cyclists that they are >>> required to dismount before crossing a road on a pedestrian >>> crossing, a children's crossing or a marked pedestrian crosswalk >>> at traffic signals. The sign may also be used to warn cyclists to >>> dismount before reaching a particular place at or beyond it would >>> be hazardous to continue riding. A second sign indicating the >>> reason for the warning should, where appropriate, be mounted below >>> this sign." >>> >>> So although it is a black and white sign I don't believe it has >>> any regulatory value; it may be used only as a reminder of an >>> existing regulation or as an advisory warning of a hazard. >>> >>> This sign is similar to the older, black and white "Cyclists must >>> dismount to cross road" sign, which was removed from MUTCD some >>> years ago. >>> >>> Regardless of any of that, it's bizarre that the sign is at one >>> end of the walkway but not the other. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, Michael Fanning wrote: >>>> Hi Kim, I only saw yellow ones today but there might be black and >>>> white ones. Makes no difference to me because I like to show a >>>> good example to the kiddies by riding responsibly. Cyclists >>>> Dismount signs go into the same bucket as the helmet laws as far >>>> as I'm concerned. My kids are taught to ride appropriately in the >>>> presence of pedestrians. That includes riding across crossings, >>>> unless a policemanperson is watching :) >>>> >>>> But the last I heard, these signs were removed from the MUTCD a >>>> few years ago. Anybody else know for sure? >>>> >>>> Mick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bikeqld mailing list >>> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bikeqld mailing list >> bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >> http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >> This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. >> > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/9d5d8fcd/attachment.htm From b.wagner at ozemail.com.au Thu Apr 30 15:42:48 2009 From: b.wagner at ozemail.com.au (Bob Wagner) Date: Thu Apr 30 15:42:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Corro Drive - bicentennial Cycle way Message-ID: <05D5A9DC-FF51-400F-ACCA-946E2CFDFA41@ozemail.com.au> Am I missing something it is the bicentennial Cycle way. So wouldnt it be more appropriate for the cyclists to ride slowly along the ramp, and have the able bodied pedestrians detour up to the footpath that runs along the edge of Corro Drive. Not the other way around. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 30 16:37:27 2009 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Thu Apr 30 16:37:45 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycleway at PA Hospital Message-ID: <002601c9c9db$dc184a50$9448def0$@whittle@optusnet.com.au> >From the City South News, 30/4/09, page 10. BUSWAY WIN FOR CYCLISTS Cyclists will join public transport users as beneficiaries of the Boggo Rd Busway. The project includes a 920 m shared cycleway connecting the existing South-East Cycleway to the Princess Alexandra Hospital busway station, which will provide safe access over Ipswich Road. The State Government marked a major milestone this month, with the Boggo Rd and Eastern Busways connected over Ipswich Road. The two projects are due for completion in August. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090501/c5d11398/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Apr 30 16:48:45 2009 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Apr 30 16:48:57 2009 Subject: [bikeqld] Corro Drive - bicentennial Cycle way In-Reply-To: <05D5A9DC-FF51-400F-ACCA-946E2CFDFA41@ozemail.com.au> References: <05D5A9DC-FF51-400F-ACCA-946E2CFDFA41@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <374685.51731.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Agree but our wonderful Lord Mayor doesn't think so. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Bob Wagner To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Friday, 1 May, 2009 6:42:48 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Corro Drive - bicentennial Cycle way Am I missing something it is the bicentennial Cycle way. So wouldnt it be more appropriate for the cyclists to ride slowly along the ramp, and have the able bodied pedestrians detour up to the footpath that runs along the edge of Corro Drive. Not the other way around. Bob Wagner b.wagner@ozemail.com.au b.wagner@staidan.qld.edu.au _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Yahoo!7 recommends that you update your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8.Get it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20090430/8565fa94/attachment.htm