From listjunkie at pobox.com Thu Oct 2 18:03:41 2008 From: listjunkie at pobox.com (Christopher Biggs) Date: Thu Oct 2 18:03:58 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Magpie warning - western fwy bikeway Message-ID: Users of the western freeway bikepath, watch out for a homicidal magpie in the area between the boundary st tunnel and the jerrang st overpass. Rotter hit me 3 times this morning and took a bite out of my ear. --chris From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Oct 2 18:13:32 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Oct 2 18:14:54 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Magpie warning - western fwy bikeway In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ouch! I don't think I've had any serious tangles with magpies for quite some years now. I used to have fake eyes on the back of my helmet and skewers sticking out around the sides and front to protect my eyes, but I haven't seemed to need it recently. I mustn't be cycling enough any more. I noticed yesterday that BQ has a useful (but dated) looking Google Maps based list of known aggressive magpies: http://www.bq.org.au/cycle-info/hazards.shtml Yours isn't listed there so it might be worth dropping them a mail to add it. Cheers, Ian On Fri, 3 Oct 2008, Christopher Biggs wrote: > Users of the western freeway bikepath, watch out for a homicidal magpie in > the area between the boundary st tunnel and the jerrang st overpass. > > Rotter hit me 3 times this morning and took a bite out of my ear. > > --chris > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 9 00:28:46 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Thu Oct 9 00:28:59 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Message-ID: <889195.99993.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Did anyone watch the New Inventors last night? Did you see the TREV? I just wondered what they do for cooling. I guess when you are in motorised vehicle there is not a lot of over heating issue (except in Summer). That made me wondered what are people doing to keep cool when they are riding a monocoque trike. Also what sort of speed increase would one expect from a monocoque vs a non-monocoque version? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081008/c14afba1/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Oct 9 05:58:06 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Oct 9 05:59:32 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Article in bmag: "Join the Life cycle" Message-ID: Here's an article in this Tuesday's bmag (p.24). Always nice to see a bit of positive coverage in the local and mainstream media. Cheers, Ian =====8<----- Join the Life cycle [ Elizabeth Mabin discovers that bicycling is one of Australia's favourite sports and with health, cost and environmental benefits, plus some great rides here and overseas, it's easy to see why ] Cycling is the new black. Everybody's doing it, and if they're not, they should be - there are health benefits, cost benefits, environmental benefits and social benefits to be gained. Cycling has been increasing in popularity over the last four years and is now the fourth most popular physical activity in Australia - more popular than golf and fishing. Bicycle sales in 2007 reached an all time high of 1.4 million. At a professional level cycling in this country has stepped up a notch. Several 'pro' teams are currently forming in Australia and a sound domestic program exists. Australian cyclists are internationally competitive and are achieving significant results on the world stage. Chris White is the owner and director of Virgin Blue Cycling, the Brisbane-based cycling team currently leading the National Teams series. White said it is a great time to get behind - and involved in - the sport. "It will be a watershed to have the World Championships here in Australia in 2010. I've been around cycling for over 20 years, and the fundamentals of the sport are just terrific." White has three daughters, aged five, seven and 10. The youngest took her first bike ride without training wheels on Father's Day this year. White said cycling is accessible by all, and so are its benefits. "Whether it's for family bike rides, fighting type II diabetes, for recreation and fun, or for ecotourism...there are lots of big positives." And commuters, it seems, are the great untapped potential for growth and achievement of the critical mass in the sport. "The number are increasing but only 2,500 out of 80,000 people ride bikes to work in Brisbane. There are significant upsides to commuting by bike - not only does it save on fuel and decrease road congestion, but it also equates to better productivity and health for Australian workers," he said. National Ride to Work Day 2008 on 15 October aims to promote the many benefits of commuting by bike, and encourage people to try it. According to a study undertaken by the Cycling Promotion Fund and commissioned by the Commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing, the value of current cycling participation is approximately $227.2 million per annum in health savings. Cycling is a low impact aerobic exercise, meaning it causes less strain and injuries than some other fitness exercises. Steady cycling burns about 1200 kilojoules per hour. Typically you burn fat as the main source of energy while cycling, so it is excellent in the fight against obesity, type II diabetes and cardiovascular disease and, in some cases, it has been found to help arthritis. There is also some evidence to suggest that cycling may decrease the risk of contracting colon cancer. A person's mental health also benefits from bike riding. People who regularly cycle repot feeling an increased sense of vitality, they feel more confident, positive and strong, they are able to concentrate better, sleep more soundly, and generally have a greater enjoyment of life. David Kemp, 24, from Toowoomba is the team leader of Virgin Blue Cycling, and confesses that racing is 90 percent mental and 10 percent physical. "It's so tough mentally and that's what separates the best. It's so hard to ignore your body's messages when you're going up a hill that's 17km long. Your body will say to you 'stop' and you've got to have the mental toughness to override your body," Kemp said. Kemp's training involves riding 700-800km per week on average over the year. His eating plan has plenty of protein and carbohydrates and a very limited fat intake. Kemp said this was important to cyclists, because "the leaner you get the better power to weight ratio you have". For those who have never ridden a bike, or for those whose cycling finesse may be a bit rusty, there are a few expert tips one should heed before taking to the seat. Bicycle Queensland development officer Andrew Demack said when buying a bike, professional help is a must. "Go to a specialist bike shop rather than a big department store, because a bike shop will help you get a bike that fits you - it's not just about how tall you are, but how long your logs are, your torso, how fit you are, how old you are and what you'll be using your bike for. You get what you pay for, and if you're riding to work regularly and wanting a reasonable standard of bike you're looking to pay about $500-800. All bikes in that price range will be reliable for years of use provided they are maintained properly." Demack said. According to Demack, one thing that stops people commuting by bike is the daunting and busy traffic, but governments are working to address this by improving the bike networks. "It's improving, and certainly councils in the south east area have put a pretty big effort over the last 10 to 15 years. In terms of commuting there's more to do but they're aware," Demack said. The Brisbane City Council has committed more than $25 million this financial year to build new bike paths, as part of $100 million to be spent over the next four years. And if you're looking for an event to get you enthused about bike riding, the Wilson HTM Brisbane to Gold Coast Challenge will be on Sunday 12 October. More than 6,000 participants are expected to join in this year's 100km ride from South Bank to Southport. [sidebar] Ride, ride, ride your bike... Once you're comfortable on two wheels you may even consider a cycling holiday ... Whether you want a guided tour, or to go it alone, you can cycle your way through just about every continent. Companies that arrange cycling tours will typically provide the bike, most meals, accommodation, transport for your luggage, and if at any stage you're not feeling up to it there's usually a support vehicle you can climb into. IN QUEENSLAND The Somerset Region Winery Ride The Somerset Wine District is situated approximately 75 minutes drive north west of Brisbane and this your, offered by Bicycle Tours of Queensland, takes you through the picturesque valley around Kilcoy. Duration: 1 day Highlights: Follow the meandering Kilcoy creek. Take a tour of the Hunting Lodge Estate Winery and learn about the wine making process. Enjoy the relaxed setting of the boutique winery Nirvana Estate Wines, and experience the hospitality at Winya Wines before either coasting your way down the valley, or packing the bikes on the bus and visiting one or two more wineries in the district before taking the bus home. Price: Fully guided for $115 or self-guided for $108 per person. Meals included: Morning tea and lunch. More information: www.bicycleyoursqld.com.au. INTERSTATE Coast to Coast in South Australia Cycling Tours Australia offers a tour that starts at the lively seaside suburb of Glenelg in Adelaid, and winds its way along the coast through Somerton Park, Brighton, Seacliff, Port Noarlunga, and Moana. From there cyclists head inland to the famous wine region of McLaren Vale, then on to the coastal resort town of Victor Harbour. Duration: 5 days Highlights: Visit the Medlow Confectionary outlet and try the heritage listed Fruchocs. Ride through the olive groves, vineyards, and almost orchards, visiting cellar doors and fresh produce markets along the way. Catch the hose-drawn tram over the causeway to Graine Island. Spot whales with their calves frolicking off Basham Beach. Price: $1270 per person based on twin share. Single supplement $550. Meals included: 4 breakfasts. Accommodation: 4 nights included. More information: www.cyclingtoursaustralia.com.au. OVERSEAS Cycling the Loire in France Intrepid Travel offers a tour that provides a unique way to discover France's breathtaking heartland at a relaxed pace. On a journey from Paris to Angers, cycle past the homes of French Kings, visit fairytale castles, discover prehistoric caves, and follow in the footsteps of Joan of Arc. To top it off, a delicious Loire wine and sumptuous cuisine awaits at the final destination. Duration: 8 days Highlights: Stroll along the Champs Elysees in Paris. Wander the medieval quarter of Tours. Cycle through the beautiful Loire Valley and kick back in the birthplace of Surrealism. Price: from AUD $1500 (plus local payment EUR 150) Meals included: 3 breakfasts. Accommodation: 7 nights included. More information: www.intrepidtravel.com.au. From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Sun Oct 12 18:05:59 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Sun Oct 12 18:06:29 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? References: <889195.99993.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Have seen the Trev before.. missed the new inventors. They probably do little for cooling.. In the events it would have run, there wouldn't be too many times it would be stationary. There's always a gap or crack where the air will come through, doubt they'd be too worried about cooling. Same kind of thing follows for enclosed recumbents.. except for maybe the really good ones. Usually there'd be air coming up from a gap around the front wheel. I think a ventilation hole just near the front of the rider's face for cool air to breathe is important - Fully enclosed recumbents make a huge difference to top speed, but they're harder to accelerate and climb. On a commuting route, when you get to say, over 35 kph, much more of your effort is needed to stop and accelerate (whether for traffic, other peds / cyclists, or obstacles). So extra top speed isn't much use.. whereas electric bikes could really help to accelerate to cruising speed. If there weren't any cars to get in the way, Streamlined HPV's would be ideal for longer road trips. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: BIQ Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Did anyone watch the New Inventors last night? Did you see the TREV? I just wondered what they do for cooling. I guess when you are in motorised vehicle there is not a lot of over heating issue (except in Summer). That made me wondered what are people doing to keep cool when they are riding a monocoque trike. Also what sort of speed increase would one expect from a monocoque vs a non-monocoque version? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081013/dc9f3969/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sun Oct 12 19:13:01 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sun Oct 12 19:13:19 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Message-ID: <130202.9273.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ben, It is a good thing you reply. I have been wondering why the list is so quiet. Why are enclosed recumbents harder to accelerate? Is it because the monocoques make them heavier? If you go down the electric bike route then you might as well use the TREV. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Guymer To: BIQ Sent: Monday, 13 October, 2008 9:05:59 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? ? Have seen the Trev before.. missed the new inventors. They probably do little for cooling.. In the events it would have run, there wouldn't be too many times it would be stationary. There's always a gap or crack where the air will come through, doubt they'd be too worried about cooling. Same kind of thing follows for enclosed recumbents.. except for maybe the really good ones. Usually there'd be air coming up from a gap around the front wheel. I think a ventilation hole just near the front of the rider's face for cool air to breathe is important - Fully enclosed recumbents make a huge difference to top speed, but they're harder to accelerate and climb. On a commuting route, when you get to say, over 35 kph, much more of your effort is needed to stop and accelerate (whether for traffic, other peds / cyclists, or obstacles). So extra top speed isn't much use.. whereas electric bikes could really help to accelerate to cruising speed. If there weren't any cars to get in the way, Streamlined HPV's would be ideal for longer road trips. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: BIQ Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Did anyone watch the New Inventors last night? Did you see the TREV? I just wondered what they do for cooling. I guess when you are in motorised vehicle there is not a lot of over heating issue (except in Summer). That made me wondered what are people doing to keep cool when they are riding a monocoque trike. Also what sort of speed increase would one expect from a monocoque vs a non-monocoque version? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081012/48eea43c/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Mon Oct 13 18:05:59 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Mon Oct 13 18:06:15 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? References: <130202.9273.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D0AAC36BD3C4F8EBF0918C7D16632A1@Toaster> Yes, they're harder to accelerate because of the weight of the fairing and other complications; also, they tend to have fairly tall gearing which can get fairly specialised.. building gearing which can work at 70+kph, and also low speed ie <15kph would be very difficult to do well. Electric assist could help a lot at low speeds.. disengaging once you're rolling comfortably (say up to 20-25kph.. just like many normal electric bikes!!) How fantastic would it be to have no cars on the roads! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: Ben Guymer ; BIQ Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Hi Ben, It is a good thing you reply. I have been wondering why the list is so quiet. Why are enclosed recumbents harder to accelerate? Is it because the monocoques make them heavier? If you go down the electric bike route then you might as well use the TREV. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Guymer To: BIQ Sent: Monday, 13 October, 2008 9:05:59 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? ? Have seen the Trev before.. missed the new inventors. They probably do little for cooling.. In the events it would have run, there wouldn't be too many times it would be stationary. There's always a gap or crack where the air will come through, doubt they'd be too worried about cooling. Same kind of thing follows for enclosed recumbents.. except for maybe the really good ones. Usually there'd be air coming up from a gap around the front wheel. I think a ventilation hole just near the front of the rider's face for cool air to breathe is important - Fully enclosed recumbents make a huge difference to top speed, but they're harder to accelerate and climb. On a commuting route, when you get to say, over 35 kph, much more of your effort is needed to stop and accelerate (whether for traffic, other peds / cyclists, or obstacles). So extra top speed isn't much use.. whereas electric bikes could really help to accelerate to cruising speed. If there weren't any cars to get in the way, Streamlined HPV's would be ideal for longer road trips. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: BIQ Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Heating problem monocoque trike? Did anyone watch the New Inventors last night? Did you see the TREV? I just wondered what they do for cooling. I guess when you are in motorised vehicle there is not a lot of over heating issue (except in Summer). That made me wondered what are people doing to keep cool when they are riding a monocoque trike. Also what sort of speed increase would one expect from a monocoque vs a non-monocoque version? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081014/b40d6700/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 14 08:53:46 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Tue Oct 14 08:53:59 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria Message-ID: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber defended his group's role: "Our mission is get more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to Government."" ? http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-on-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html ? The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE representative of Victorian cyclists, including recreational and commuter cyclists. This position conflicts directly with the CEO's quoted comments in? the above excerpt. ? One can argue that the same condition holds with Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC governments to be an effective advocate for Qld cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or of information on steps being taken by BQ on behalf of Queensland cyclists? suggests that BQ also has been captured by the governments of the day. ? BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems much more effective at public advocacy for cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081014/880bc0e5/attachment.htm From jim_lewis at lycos.com Tue Oct 14 18:14:01 2008 From: jim_lewis at lycos.com (Jim Lewis) Date: Tue Oct 14 18:14:31 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Interesting to read this report but the accident component seems to run counter to a paper which was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. The bit I like from that is what they term "a virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more people cycling. But I do like the idea of some strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. Jim Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". 60-Second Science is a daily podcast. http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7227869B " There's a new prescription for communities that want to make their streets safer for bike riders: just add more bikes. A team of international researchers looked at cities from Australia to Denmark to California, and found that more riders meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers presented their findings to a cycling safety seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. What's surprising, the researchers say, is that biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins between bikes and cars had little to do with miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. Apparently, motorists learn to share the road better when they have to deal with more bikes on their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means more drivers who also bike, which makes them better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers call it a virtuous cycle?run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. " At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to Government."" > >http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-on-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html > >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE >representative of Victorian cyclists, including >recreational and commuter cyclists. This >position conflicts directly with the CEO's >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. > >One can argue that the same condition holds with >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or >of information on steps being taken by BQ on >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ >also has been captured by the governments of the day. > >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems >much more effective at public advocacy for >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! > > >Make the switch to the world's best email. >Get >Yahoo!7 Mail. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Oct 14 18:42:39 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 14 18:43:46 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Message-ID: Hopefully everybody here hopped on their bike this morning to go to work/school/uni and join in National Ride to Work Day (...are there any confessions to be made? :-) My "real" commute is hardly worth hopping on a bike for (not that that stops me), but I took the opportunity this morning to have a spin around the Brisbane CBD and was gratified to see plenty of bikes going about their business. Were there more than usual? I don't really have a baseline to compare against. There were a few people in orange vests out counting bikes - I saw one on the North Quay section of the Bicentennial Bikeway and a pair in Reddacliff Place opposite the Victoria Bridge. Does anybody here know who they were counting for? They didn't look like BQ (or CPF, etc) types. Cheers, Ian From kim at teegee.com.au Tue Oct 14 19:16:40 2008 From: kim at teegee.com.au (kim) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:19:21 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F53668.7000704@teegee.com.au> Ian Lister wrote: Hi, I thought it was Work to Ride day so I gave it a miss :) , hey if they are the same folk who were out counting cycle traffic as yesterday, they were QT. I noticed quite a few on most of the main inner city bike paths, nothing beyond that. I may be cynical or just unreasonable, but it seems to me that Brisbane bicycle strategies always seem to be based around the inner city. It has been a bit quiet here on the list for a while, maybe we are all busy at this time of the year 'writing poetry for the taxman' or something. I have a few issues to raise when I get a chance, so stay tuned. kim > Hopefully everybody here hopped on their bike this morning to go to > work/school/uni and join in National Ride to Work Day (...are there > any confessions to be made? :-) > > My "real" commute is hardly worth hopping on a bike for (not that that > stops me), but I took the opportunity this morning to have a spin > around the Brisbane CBD and was gratified to see plenty of bikes going > about their business. Were there more than usual? I don't really have > a baseline to compare against. > > There were a few people in orange vests out counting bikes - I saw one > on the North Quay section of the Bicentennial Bikeway and a pair in > Reddacliff Place opposite the Victoria Bridge. Does anybody here know > who they were counting for? They didn't look like BQ (or CPF, etc) types. > > Cheers, > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 14 19:23:35 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:23:46 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Message-ID: <530589.91137.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ian, I wish I was riding :-(. I have been sick with a bad cold/cough for 1.5 week now. In fact, I even miss the ride to Gold Coast on Sunday (double :-( ). Talking about National Ride to Work Day, didn't anyone hear someone representing a cycling body calling on the government to build separate on-road cycling facilities? Of all the infrastructure, I reckon cycling facilities could do with a boost from the government given that they are going to spend 10 Billion dollars! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ----- Original Message ---- From: Ian Lister To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 9:42:39 AM Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Hopefully everybody here hopped on their bike this morning to go to work/school/uni and join in National Ride to Work Day (...are there any confessions to be made? :-) My "real" commute is hardly worth hopping on a bike for (not that that stops me), but I took the opportunity this morning to have a spin around the Brisbane CBD and was gratified to see plenty of bikes going about their business. Were there more than usual? I don't really have a baseline to compare against. There were a few people in orange vests out counting bikes - I saw one on the North Quay section of the Bicentennial Bikeway and a pair in Reddacliff Place opposite the Victoria Bridge. Does anybody here know who they were counting for? They didn't look like BQ (or CPF, etc) types. Cheers, Ian _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081014/d07a0e2a/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Tue Oct 14 19:29:45 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:29:57 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day References: <48F53668.7000704@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <6F58B2915858404D9BC97D34D8C6E0B9@Toaster> Hmm.. I had started work at 6:30am before I realised it was 'riding to work is an excuse for being late' day Ben From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 14 19:41:38 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:41:53 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Message-ID: <368291.5108.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Kim, It is not just cycling. Noticed that our public transport is also linked to the CBD. Unfortunately so much money has been wasted on TransApex very little is left for public transport in the suburbs. I think we need someone to do a story on "The Car that Ate Brisbane" What do you think? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ----- Original Message ---- From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 10:16:40 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Ian Lister wrote: Hi, I thought it was Work to Ride day so I gave it a miss :) , hey if they are the same folk who were out counting cycle traffic as yesterday, they were QT. I noticed quite a few on most of the main inner city bike paths, nothing beyond that. I may be cynical or just unreasonable, but it seems to me that Brisbane bicycle strategies always seem to be based around the inner city. It has been a bit quiet here on the list for a while, maybe we are all busy at this time of the year 'writing poetry for the taxman' or something. I have a few issues to raise when I get a chance, so stay tuned. kim > Hopefully everybody here hopped on their bike this morning to go to > work/school/uni and join in National Ride to Work Day (...are there > any confessions to be made? :-) > > My "real" commute is hardly worth hopping on a bike for (not that that > stops me), but I took the opportunity this morning to have a spin > around the Brisbane CBD and was gratified to see plenty of bikes going > about their business. Were there more than usual? I don't really have > a baseline to compare against. > > There were a few people in orange vests out counting bikes - I saw one > on the North Quay section of the Bicentennial Bikeway and a pair in > Reddacliff Place opposite the Victoria Bridge. Does anybody here know > who they were counting for? They didn't look like BQ (or CPF, etc) types. > > Cheers, > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081014/9dc4ec4f/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Oct 14 19:43:41 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 14 19:45:46 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day In-Reply-To: <48F53668.7000704@teegee.com.au> References: <48F53668.7000704@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, kim wrote: [snip] > I may be cynical or just unreasonable, Surely nobody on this list would be either of those? > but it seems to me that Brisbane bicycle strategies always seem to be > based around the inner city. Of course! If you're travelling in the burbs there's no reason not to just drive a car. It's only if you're coming into the city that we need to get you onto a bike in order to "bust congestion" for everybody else that still wants to drive. On Tue, 14 Oct 2008, Anthony Lee wrote: > I wish I was riding :-(. I have been sick with a bad cold/cough for 1.5 > week now. In fact, I even miss the ride to Gold Coast on Sunday (double > :-( ). Sorry to hear that; I guess we'll have to let you off, just this once. Hope you sort it soon - it's no good to be off the bike that long! > Talking about National Ride to Work Day, didn't anyone hear someone > representing a cycling body calling on the government to build separate > on-road cycling facilities? Yeah, the Cycling Promotion Fund put out a press release this morning calling for $800m from Infrastructure Australia: http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/downloads/MediaReleaseInfrastructureAustraliaSubmissionCPF15thOctober2008V2.pdf The actual submission should be available on the CPF web site some time today. On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, Ben Guymer wrote: > Hmm.. I had started work at 6:30am before I realised it was 'riding to > work is an excuse for being late' day So did you then hop back on your bike and go out for another spin until 9am? ;-) Cheers, Ian From Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au Tue Oct 14 20:05:32 2008 From: Ken.Yeo at allianz.com.au (Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au) Date: Tue Oct 14 20:05:55 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The old argument will always rear it's head on days like this with cycling events.... Can someone give some detail of where the money goes? Does it pay for roads/footpaths/cycleways etc? Regards Ken Yeo ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081015/6c58018f/attachment.htm From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Tue Oct 14 21:19:40 2008 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Tue Oct 14 21:19:57 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day In-Reply-To: <368291.5108.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <368291.5108.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6ADD16814F1547559348A823E637ECB9@golder.gds> Wouldn't that be "The Can't that Ate Brisbane" ... or even another spelling? G. _____ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Anthony Lee Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 10:42 AM To: BikeQld Subject: Re: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Hi Kim, It is not just cycling. Noticed that our public transport is also linked to the CBD. Unfortunately so much money has been wasted on TransApex very little is left for public transport in the suburbs. I think we need someone to do a story on "The Car that Ate Brisbane" What do you think? Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ----- Original Message ---- From: kim To: BikeQld Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 10:16:40 AM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day Ian Lister wrote: Hi, I thought it was Work to Ride day so I gave it a miss :) , hey if they are the same folk who were out counting cycle traffic as yesterday, they were QT. I noticed quite a few on most of the main inner city bike paths, nothing beyond that. I may be cynical or just unreasonable, but it seems to me that Brisbane bicycle strategies always seem to be based around the inner city. It has been a bit quiet here on the list for a while, maybe we are all busy at this time of the year 'writing poetry for the taxman' or something. I have a few issues to raise when I get a chance, so stay tuned. kim > Hopefully everybody here hopped on their bike this morning to go to > work/school/uni and join in National Ride to Work Day (...are there > any confessions to be made? :-) > > My "real" commute is hardly worth hopping on a bike for (not that that > stops me), but I took the opportunity this morning to have a spin > around the Brisbane CBD and was gratified to see plenty of bikes going > about their business. Were there more than usual? I don't really have > a baseline to compare against. > > There were a few people in orange vests out counting bikes - I saw one > on the North Quay section of the Bicentennial Bikeway and a pair in > Reddacliff Place opposite the Victoria Bridge. Does anybody here know > who they were counting for? They didn't look like BQ (or CPF, etc) types. > > Cheers, > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _____ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081015/0e8fbb51/attachment.htm From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 21:41:28 2008 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Tue Oct 14 21:41:41 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:05 AM, wrote: > > The old argument will always rear it's head on days like this with cycling > events.... > > Can someone give some detail of where the money goes? http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Registration/Motor_vehicles/Registration_fees/ Firstly, the "registration fee" mostly covers the cost of the infrastructure required to enforce registration. Secondly, you'd have to ask QT if they redirect monies from the registration to either local councils or Main Roads, or how much they pump into the general revenue bucket. Third, the "traffic improvement" fee is the thing that sounds like it pays for roads etc, but how much of that ends up in the road...? There's a bunch of funding for roads that comes through GST, which cyclists pay, therefore they fund the infrastructure therefore that daft "user-pays" principle is satisfied. There's another bunch of funding that comes through rates, which are hard to not pay for in one way or another. And again, cyclists have paid. > Does it pay for roads/footpaths/cycleways etc? Short answer: "No." Not quite so short answer: "Not directly." See also: http://www.ptua.org.au/myths/petroltax.shtml If "user pays" is to be satisfied for motorists, they'd have to cough up double of what they do now. If any of this info is wrong, please correct asap. Thanks, Sebastian From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Tue Oct 14 22:50:30 2008 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Tue Oct 14 22:50:51 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE029BDDEFD3@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Registration and fuel taxes don't pay for the roads by a long shot, Ken. I haven't got the data, but I believe it is well-established. I think the arguments might be listed on a national website, the Cyclists Resource Centre http://www.cyclingresourcecentre.org.au/ or the Cycling Promotion Fund http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/. Pete ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 11:06 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? The old argument will always rear it's head on days like this with cycling events.... Can someone give some detail of where the money goes? Does it pay for roads/footpaths/cycleways etc? Regards Ken Yeo ______________________________________ Ken.Yeo@allianz.com.au ______________________________________ --- Please consider the environment before printing this email --- Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2006* Allianz - Best General Insurance Company 2007* *Australian Banking and Finance Insurance Awards This email and any attachments has been sent by Allianz Australia Insurance Limited (ABN 15 000 122 850) and is intended solely for the addressee. It is confidential, may contain personal information and may be subject to legal professional privilege. Unauthorised use is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this by mistake, confidentiality and any legal privilege are not waived or lost and we ask that you contact the sender and delete and destroy this and any other copies. In relation to any legal use you may make of the contents of this email, you must ensure that you comply with the Privacy Act (Cth) 1988 and you should note that the contents may be subject to copyright and therefore may not be reproduced, communicated or adapted without the express consent of the owner of the copyright. Allianz will not be liable in connection with any data corruption, interruption, delay, computer virus or unauthorised access or amendment to the contents of this email. If this email is a commercial electronic message and you would prefer not to receive further commercial electronic messages from Allianz, please forward a copy of this email to unsubscribe@allianz.com.au with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081015/42386017/attachment-0001.htm From adsliif2 at tpg.com.au Tue Oct 14 23:48:21 2008 From: adsliif2 at tpg.com.au (John Nightingale) Date: Tue Oct 14 23:48:43 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] US Bailout Bill and cycle commuting Message-ID: New York Times October 13, 2008, 9:30 am Buried in the Bailout: The Bicycle Commuter Act By Andrea Kannapell bikerBicycle commuters were extended a small benefit by Congress. Does it matter? (Photo: Associated Press) And all it took was a global financial meltdown. There it is, a little driblet of encouragement to ride a bike to work ? way, way down in House Resolution 1424, also known as the bailout bill: SEC. 211. TRANSPORTATION FRINGE BENEFIT TO BICYCLE COMMUTERS. (a) In General- Paragraph (1) of section 132(f) is amended by adding at the end the following:(a) In General- Paragraph (1) of section 132(f) is amended by adding at the end the following:?(D) Any qualified bicycle commuting reimbursement?. ? The bicycle commuter benefit, which is provided in its entirety here by the League of American Bicyclists, continues on for several paragraphs, establishing ?limitations on exclusions,? ?applicable annual limitations,? and other assorted legalese, but the essentials are these: Starting next year, employers who provide bike parking, bathing facilities, tune-ups, or other support for bicycle commuting, can deduct up to $20 a month per participating employee from their own taxable income. Exactly how that will work is under negotiation with the Internal Revenue Service, and it remains to be seen whether businesses will in fact begin showering their sweaty, two-wheeled workers with rewards and incentives. But celebration is still in order. I first heard about the benefit a couple of hours after President Bush signed the bailout bill, in an e-mail alert from the League, a bike advocacy group based in Washington. I was blindsided. I had never heard of the Bicycle Commuter Act before, and had no idea Congressman Earl Blumenauer, an Oregon Democrat, had been trying for years to get the thing passed. And even though, in an ironic twist, Mr. Blumenauer, was forced to vote against the long sought-after bike benefit because he opposed the larger bailout bill, the news that the tax credit had passed was heady. Capitol Hill and the White House had spent a moment ? perhaps just a notional moment ? on one of the realities of my life. I could imagine they felt my pain! They gave a nod to the ache in my wrists, broken nearly 15 years ago when a car hit my bike. They acknowledged how my heart jumps when a taxi/truck/S.U.V. passes an 18th of an inch away. Perhaps they understood the claustrophobia of the 8:30 a.m. subway car, and the draw of dawn light on the Hudson. My government, I thought, must chafe with the same frustration I feel when parking garages refuse my bike. That Friday afternoon, it seemed to many enthusiasts that bikes finally mattered. Andy Clarke, the League?s president, confessed that he went out and bought a (small and cheap) bottle of champagne to crack open in the office. But the euphoria passed quickly. The $20 bike benefit, should employers actually make the effort to create a program for their cycle commuters, compares rather poorly to the $115 mass-transit benefit already available, or the subsidies nearly double that aimed at helping those who drive to work. For his part, Paul White, the executive director of Transportation Alternatives, New York City?s bike advocacy stalwart, says there are bigger fish to fry ? including the creation of dedicated bike lanes that are separated from car traffic, like those along Broadway south of 42d Street. How many more of those Ghost Bikes do any of us want to see? On the other hand, there are a lot of inexpensive ways to make a cyclist?s life easier, and maybe this benefit will encourage efforts in that direction. More people might give bike commuting a try, and there?s safety ? and power ? in numbers. And if nothing else, now lots and lots of cyclists know that they have a few like-minded types in government. Andrea Kannapell is an editor on The Times? Foreign Desk. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081015/73565070/attachment.htm From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Oct 15 00:15:14 2008 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Oct 15 00:15:27 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm interesting..... Richard -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria Interesting to read this report but the accident component seems to run counter to a paper which was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. The bit I like from that is what they term "a virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more people cycling. But I do like the idea of some strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. Jim Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". 60-Second Science is a daily podcast. http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7 227869B " There's a new prescription for communities that want to make their streets safer for bike riders: just add more bikes. A team of international researchers looked at cities from Australia to Denmark to California, and found that more riders meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers presented their findings to a cycling safety seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. What's surprising, the researchers say, is that biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins between bikes and cars had little to do with miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. Apparently, motorists learn to share the road better when they have to deal with more bikes on their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means more drivers who also bike, which makes them better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. " At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to Government."" > >http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-o n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html > >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE >representative of Victorian cyclists, including >recreational and commuter cyclists. This >position conflicts directly with the CEO's >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. > >One can argue that the same condition holds with >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or >of information on steps being taken by BQ on >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ >also has been captured by the governments of the day. > >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems >much more effective at public advocacy for >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! > > >Make the switch to the world's best email. >Get >Yahoo!7 Mail. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Wed Oct 15 00:49:40 2008 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Wed Oct 15 00:49:52 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C215F99185D42A8A6E64E7523E45D28@golder.gds> It's odd how this one keeps coming up. A few points: 1. Rego actually goes to State revenue, but notionally it is supposed to fund Main Roads (or "State Controlled Roads"). That is mostly the highway system plus a smattering of urban arterials (definitely NOT all of them) and a few others (like Mount Crosby Road, would you believe...). 2. Most cyclists never ride on such roads. For example, even Coronation Drive is not a Main Road. Milton Road is not a Main Road. Kelvin Grove Road is not a Main Road. 3. As Seb says, car rego generates bugger all revenue anyway. There are about 2.5 million cars registered in Qld, and the rego fee (ex. 3rd party insurance) averages ~$300, for just $750M gross from car owners. The 2008/9 MRD budget is $3.2B. 4. The residential streets and collector roads that cyclists actually use were mostly built by property developers as part of the original land subdivision. So the capital cost was met by the people who bought the blocks - presumably including cyclists. 5. The maintenance cost of this cycling road network is nearly all met by local councils, funded out of property rates. Rates which cyclists, both owners and renters, effectively pay. So where does this bizarre idea that "cyclist don't pay their way" actually come from? And why do brain dead motorists think that a few hundred bucks a year in car rego is enough to fund a gigantic road system? That when 10k of pretty basic dual carriageway is now costing ~$0.5B. G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081015/b77423c3/attachment.htm From jim_lewis at lycos.com Wed Oct 15 06:23:53 2008 From: jim_lewis at lycos.com (Jim Lewis) Date: Wed Oct 15 06:24:23 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <200810151124.m9FBO4XP019345@mail13.tpg.com.au> It was interesting to see that analysis. However, having now found the 2008 report, "Cycling: Getting Australia Moving"*, although it does cite the 2003 paper you provided the review of, I see that it also shows some interesting graphs which would indicate a lower rate of accidents per km cycled with increasing numbers (or distances). It would appear that this is so with no need for any fancy maths that may (or may not) give possible misleading artifacts. Title: Cycling: Getting Australia Moving (1.5 MB) http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/downloads/CPFHlthRpr08V3prf1.pdf http://tinyurl.com/AusBikeRpt It seems a good idea to encourage more cycling, especially if the infrastructure is properly provided with a balance of on- as well as off-road routes. Safety evidence does need to be true though!! Jim * Bauman A., Rissel C., Garrard J., Ker I., Speidel R., Fishman E., 2008 Cycling: Getting Australia Moving: Barriers, facilitators and interventions to get more Australians physically active through cycling, Cycling Promotion Fund, Melbourne. In August 2007, the Cycling Promotion Fund was commissioned by the Commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing to develop a report on bicycle participation by Australian adults. The Cycling Promotion Fund was specifically asked to investigate the contribution cycling can make to the health of adult Australians, what barriers exist to increasing participation and what can be done to overcome these hurdles. The Cycling Promotion Fund engaged four notable academics/practitioners from the fields of health, transport and economics to address these questions. >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- > Bicycle Victoria >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:15:14 +1000 >From: "Richard Hockey" >To: "Jim Lewis" , > >Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. >http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm >interesting..... > >Richard >-----Original Message----- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis >Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy >organisations- Bicycle Victoria > >Interesting to read this report but the accident >component seems to run counter to a paper which >was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. >The bit I like from that is what they term "a >virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop >with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is >the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem >to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on >accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more >people cycling. But I do like the idea of some >strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . > >Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. > >Jim > > >Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". >60-Second Science is a daily podcast. >http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7 >227869B >" >There's a new prescription for communities that >want to make their streets safer for bike riders: >just add more bikes. A team of international >researchers looked at cities from Australia to >Denmark to California, and found that more riders >meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers >presented their findings to a cycling safety >seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. > >What's surprising, the researchers say, is that >biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a >city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins >between bikes and cars had little to do with >miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if >the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the >rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. > >Apparently, motorists learn to share the road >better when they have to deal with more bikes on >their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means >more drivers who also bike, which makes them >better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers >call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop >with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling >means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. >" > > >At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: > >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber > >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get > >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to >Government."" > > > >ter-city-20081014-50o4.html>http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-o >n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html > > > >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE > >representative of Victorian cyclists, including > >recreational and commuter cyclists. This > >position conflicts directly with the CEO's > >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. > > > >One can argue that the same condition holds with > >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of > >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC > >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld > >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or > >of information on steps being taken by BQ on > >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ > >also has been captured by the governments of the day. > > > >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems > >much more effective at public advocacy for > >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! > > > > From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Oct 15 17:18:57 2008 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Oct 15 17:19:13 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: <200810151124.m9FBO4XP019345@mail13.tpg.com.au> References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> <200810151124.m9FBO4XP019345@mail13.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <20081015221840.JRGC12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Thanks for these references being collected together ... very useful ... also for (re)raising a number of very important issues. However, while the "reports" are useful, a degree of caution is needed as these various "reports" are far from "independent" and as far as I am aware, are not peer reviewed or subject to any "critique" eg from user groups,interested academics in the field, etc prior to publication and thus are likely to be somewhat representative of particular views ie potentially "biased" which at present is not too helpful ... in that a bit like the AUSTROADS Guidelines esp Part 14 ... and probably its 'replacement' versions ...! Two areas in particular stand out ... The first is the general proposition that the "reports" are almost always undertaken using existing conditions and rarely if ever are scoped to allow reliable comparison with other options. The options and comparisons tend to be raised after the "report" but are not subject to any real rigour. Examples include the belief in "bike lanes" or in "bike paths" without consideration of whether implementation is possible, feasible or affordable etc. Another is the lack of reliable exposure data and reliance on evidence based on who is rather than who isn't cycling, why they aren't, etc. But asking what they think they would need to get them cycling more is very contentious given that view is most likely very much based on current facilities and more importantly, based on how roads are managed now in Australia. And at a more detailed level, if there really was interest in making cycling safer (and walking and driving) then reducing urban speed limits would be a major component if not the subject of many more of these types of "reports" but rarely if ever is ... so we end up accepting (or being limited to) "bike lanes" or "bike paths" based on the "reports" based on current (appalling) road management. Those of us who were around and recall the promotional material from QT in regard to the introduction of the "50km/h speed limit in residential streets" in Queensland (and initially in SEQ) may not recall whether 40km/h or 30km/h was ever mentioned by comparison with the emphasis on the benefits of 50km/h. This is another example of the reliance on emphasising the status quo whereby having "sold" 50km/h as "safe", there is now opposition to reductions to 40km/h ... mmmmmmmm .. wonder why...! The other aspect is the reliance on expertise such that consultants are engaged to write the "reports" ... one of my "favourites" in this category is the report on cyclists and bus lanes (can't recall its exact title) that in summary (and therefore not necessarily exact) argued for bus lanes in the kerb lane with speed limits of 60km/h or more (as if that was/is essential) and then as a result, struggled to decide how to accommodate cyclists ... not surprisingly. If I recall correctly, the "report" argued that cyclists should not be permitted in the bus lanes. This might well appear common sense based on current road management, but are there any other options? Of course there are ... so why are they not in the(se) report(s)? There was little if any investigation of the trade-off benefits of bus lanes with slower speeds presumably because slower speeds are simply "not on" from the point of view of those who either commission or write the "reports" so a look at who wrote and who commissioned the "reports" is important ... as many are from or related to the state or federal road management authorities ...!!! There is little point in expressing personal opinions in these matters (although it is always useful to raise the issues involved if only to keep them "on the agenda") if the "reports" are so favourable to the status quo because not being critical of the status quo is required or considered necessary. Thus it would be interesting to see data on KSIs (i) involving cyclists in bike lanes and (ii) involving cyclists and/or pedestrians on bike paths as well as (iii) KSIs by speed limit. I may not be correct but I suspect the last time this last categorisation was done in any detail I believe was by BV in c 1994-5 or possibly earlier. MY.......................... At 09:23 PM 15/10/2008, Jim Lewis wrote: >It was interesting to see that analysis. However, having now found >the 2008 report, "Cycling: Getting Australia Moving"*, although it >does cite the 2003 paper you provided the review of, I see that it >also shows some interesting graphs which would indicate a lower rate >of accidents per km cycled with increasing numbers (or distances). >It would appear that this is so with no need for any fancy maths >that may (or may not) give possible misleading artifacts. > >Title: Cycling: Getting Australia Moving (1.5 MB) >http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/downloads/CPFHlthRpr08V3prf1.pdf >http://tinyurl.com/AusBikeRpt > >It seems a good idea to encourage more cycling, especially if the >infrastructure is properly provided with a balance of on- as well as >off-road routes. Safety evidence does need to be true though!! > >Jim > > >* Bauman A., Rissel C., Garrard J., Ker I., Speidel R., Fishman E., >2008 Cycling: Getting Australia Moving: Barriers, facilitators and >interventions to get more Australians physically active through >cycling, Cycling Promotion Fund, Melbourne. > >In August 2007, the Cycling Promotion Fund was commissioned by the >Commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing to develop a report on >bicycle participation by Australian adults. >The Cycling Promotion Fund was specifically asked to investigate the >contribution cycling can make to the health of adult Australians, >what barriers exist to increasing participation and what can be done >to overcome these hurdles. >The Cycling Promotion Fund engaged four notable >academics/practitioners from the fields of health, transport and >economics to address these questions. > > >>Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist >>advocacy organisations- >> Bicycle Victoria >>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:15:14 +1000 >>From: "Richard Hockey" >>To: "Jim Lewis" , >> >>Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. >>http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm >>interesting..... >> >>Richard >>-----Original Message----- >>From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >>[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis >>Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM >>To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy >>organisations- Bicycle Victoria >> >>Interesting to read this report but the accident >>component seems to run counter to a paper which >>was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. >>The bit I like from that is what they term "a >>virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop >>with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is >>the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem >>to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on >>accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more >>people cycling. But I do like the idea of some >>strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . >> >>Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. >> >>Jim >> >> >>Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". >>60-Second Science is a daily podcast. >>http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7 >>227869B >>" >>There's a new prescription for communities that >>want to make their streets safer for bike riders: >>just add more bikes. A team of international >>researchers looked at cities from Australia to >>Denmark to California, and found that more riders >>meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers >>presented their findings to a cycling safety >>seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. >> >>What's surprising, the researchers say, is that >>biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a >>city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins >>between bikes and cars had little to do with >>miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if >>the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the >>rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. >> >>Apparently, motorists learn to share the road >>better when they have to deal with more bikes on >>their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means >>more drivers who also bike, which makes them >>better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers >>call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop >>with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling >>means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. >>" >> >> >>At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: >> >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber >> >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get >> >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to >>Government."" >> > >> >> ts-en>ter-city-20081014-50o4.html>http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-o >>n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html >> > >> >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE >> >representative of Victorian cyclists, including >> >recreational and commuter cyclists. This >> >position conflicts directly with the CEO's >> >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. >> > >> >One can argue that the same condition holds with >> >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of >> >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC >> >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld >> >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or >> >of information on steps being taken by BQ on >> >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ >> >also has been captured by the governments of the day. >> > >> >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems >> >much more effective at public advocacy for >> >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! >> > >> > > >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1726 - Release Date: >15/10/2008 7:29 AM From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Oct 15 17:41:16 2008 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Oct 15 17:41:15 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] So what does car/motorbike registration pay for? In-Reply-To: <1C215F99185D42A8A6E64E7523E45D28@golder.gds> References: <1C215F99185D42A8A6E64E7523E45D28@golder.gds> Message-ID: <20081015224059.XTV3509.nskntotgx01p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... In fact many of the "main roads" in Brisbane as mentioned below (eg Kelvin Grove Road) WERE state controlled until a secret deal was done by Jim Soorley, the details of which remain obscure to this day (it would be useful to get them) in which control of these roads was transferred to the BCC together with funding so that the resistance and opposition to the widening and/or construction of new roads could be taken by the Council ... I am not certain of the timing but seems likely it was in the Goss era as there was also understood to be an attempt to "give" all the BCC buses to the state government ... no doubt with "appropriate" conditions ....! It seems this is/was partly why BCC since then has been able to introduce "new" projects such as the Schonell Bridge, Hale Street Bridge and the TransApex projects (and I feel fairly sure the City-Valley Bypass also) with NO opposition from the state government or in particular from the Minister(s) for Main Roads and for Transport ... this DESPITE these projects NOT being in the IRTP and other plans until a politician raises them at election time ...! Think here of silence from the Minister(s) despite the LM getting rid of bus lanes and the bike racks on buses ... the non-provision for cycling at an appropriate level-of-service by BCC and its effective removal from the City-Valley Bypass ... and similarly, consider a full page advertisement by Main Roads (that you and I paid for out of rego or other taxes) self-promoting all the "good" things MR is doing on Moggill Road but is there a mention of cycling? It is in the current edition of the "Westside News" together with a collection of letters including one questioning why cycling isn't provided for ... on/along Moggill Road. Why not indeed? The problem is really the lack of any real requirement to "integrate" cycling (and walking and public transport) into MR and BCC thinking ... it is still marginal and optional ... despite the rhetoric from QT and the token "symbolic" funding ... in particular the LMs $100m .... for undefined "bikeways" ... whatever "bikeways" means ...! MY.................. At 03:49 PM 15/10/2008, Glen Fergus wrote: >It's odd how this one keeps coming up. A few points: > * Rego actually goes to State revenue, but notionally it is > supposed to fund Main Roads (or "State Controlled Roads"). That is > mostly the highway system plus a smattering of urban arterials > (definitely NOT all of them) and a few others (like Mount Crosby > Road, would you believe...). > * Most cyclists never ride on such roads. For example, even > Coronation Drive is not a Main Road. Milton Road is not a Main > Road. Kelvin Grove Road is not a Main Road. > * As Seb says, car rego generates bugger all revenue > anyway. There are about 2.5 million cars registered in Qld, and > the rego fee (ex. 3rd party insurance) averages ~$300, for just > $750M gross from car owners. The 2008/9 MRD budget is $3.2B. > * The residential streets and collector roads that cyclists > actually use were mostly built by property developers as part of > the original land subdivision. So the capital cost was met by the > people who bought the blocks - presumably including cyclists. > * The maintenance cost of this cycling road network is nearly > all met by local councils, funded out of property rates. Rates > which cyclists, both owners and renters, effectively pay. >So where does this bizarre idea that "cyclist don't pay their way" >actually come from? And why do brain dead motorists think that a >few hundred bucks a year in car rego is enough to fund a gigantic >road system? That when 10k of pretty basic dual carriageway is now >costing ~$0.5B. >G. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1725 - Release Date: >14/10/2008 9:25 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081016/f0cb4f52/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Wed Oct 15 19:49:51 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Wed Oct 15 19:50:54 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Jacobsen's Safety in numbers paper (was RE: Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria) In-Reply-To: References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: [ Ignore this mail if you don't care about statistics ] On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, Richard Hockey wrote: > Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. > http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm > interesting..... Can we do a critical review of a critical review? :-) Forester's arguments that correlation has been incorrectly used to indicate causation appear sound, but I'm not so sure about his arguments about the graphs. His statement that "when C is large, then N/C tends to be small" assumes that N and C are independent variables. If they are then certainly we expect to see N/C decline as as C increases, on the graph as a hyperbola asymptotic to the axes. However, the whole point of the papers is the nature of the correlation between N and C, if any, and to address the naive expectation that N is directly proportional to C. If N were indeed directly proportional to C then we would expect to see a constant N/C regardless of C/P i.e. a horizontal line on the graph, *not* a hyperbola asymptotic to the axes. The fact that we don't see a horizontal line on the graph (i.e. a linear relationship between N and C) is exactly the point of Jacobsen's paper. Perhaps the analysis of the relationship would be clearer if the graph were of N/P against C/P (i.e. accident rate against cycling rate over the population), but the resulting graph could be open to misinterpretation or misuse by those seeking to show that higher rates of cycling are bad because they are correlated with higher accident rates, missing or ignoring the point that the accident rate per cyclist is lower. Given that we care about the accident rate per cyclist more than the accident rate over the population, Jacobsen's choice to plot the former seems reasonable. My statistical and academic skills are a bit rusty; anybody care to correct me? Cheers, Ian From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Oct 15 19:56:19 2008 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Oct 15 19:56:36 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: <200810151124.m9FBO4XP019345@mail13.tpg.com.au> References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> <200810151124.m9FBO4XP019345@mail13.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: I have looked up the references used in the Oz report. One (Litman & Fitzroy) interestingly finds the opposite effect. The Robinson article relies heavily on the Jacobsen paper. The other (Pucher & Dijkstra) uses similar data to Jacobsen ie ecological data from different countries. At this stage I think there is only the suggestion of an effect. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lewis [mailto:jim_lewis@lycos.com] Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:24 PM To: Richard Hockey; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria It was interesting to see that analysis. However, having now found the 2008 report, "Cycling: Getting Australia Moving"*, although it does cite the 2003 paper you provided the review of, I see that it also shows some interesting graphs which would indicate a lower rate of accidents per km cycled with increasing numbers (or distances). It would appear that this is so with no need for any fancy maths that may (or may not) give possible misleading artifacts. Title: Cycling: Getting Australia Moving (1.5 MB) http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/images/stories/downloads/CPFHlthRpr08 V3prf1.pdf http://tinyurl.com/AusBikeRpt It seems a good idea to encourage more cycling, especially if the infrastructure is properly provided with a balance of on- as well as off-road routes. Safety evidence does need to be true though!! Jim * Bauman A., Rissel C., Garrard J., Ker I., Speidel R., Fishman E., 2008 Cycling: Getting Australia Moving: Barriers, facilitators and interventions to get more Australians physically active through cycling, Cycling Promotion Fund, Melbourne. In August 2007, the Cycling Promotion Fund was commissioned by the Commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing to develop a report on bicycle participation by Australian adults. The Cycling Promotion Fund was specifically asked to investigate the contribution cycling can make to the health of adult Australians, what barriers exist to increasing participation and what can be done to overcome these hurdles. The Cycling Promotion Fund engaged four notable academics/practitioners from the fields of health, transport and economics to address these questions. >Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- > Bicycle Victoria >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:15:14 +1000 >From: "Richard Hockey" >To: "Jim Lewis" , > >Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. >http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm >interesting..... > >Richard >-----Original Message----- >From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au >[mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis >Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM >To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy >organisations- Bicycle Victoria > >Interesting to read this report but the accident >component seems to run counter to a paper which >was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. >The bit I like from that is what they term "a >virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop >with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is >the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem >to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on >accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more >people cycling. But I do like the idea of some >strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . > >Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. > >Jim > > >Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". >60-Second Science is a daily podcast. >http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B 7 >227869B >" >There's a new prescription for communities that >want to make their streets safer for bike riders: >just add more bikes. A team of international >researchers looked at cities from Australia to >Denmark to California, and found that more riders >meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers >presented their findings to a cycling safety >seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. > >What's surprising, the researchers say, is that >biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a >city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins >between bikes and cars had little to do with >miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if >the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the >rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. > >Apparently, motorists learn to share the road >better when they have to deal with more bikes on >their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means >more drivers who also bike, which makes them >better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers >call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop >with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling >means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. >" > > >At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: > >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber > >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get > >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to >Government."" > > > >ter-city-20081014-50o4.html>http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries- o >n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html > > > >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE > >representative of Victorian cyclists, including > >recreational and commuter cyclists. This > >position conflicts directly with the CEO's > >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. > > > >One can argue that the same condition holds with > >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of > >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC > >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld > >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or > >of information on steps being taken by BQ on > >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ > >also has been captured by the governments of the day. > > > >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems > >much more effective at public advocacy for > >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! > > > > From r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au Wed Oct 15 20:51:41 2008 From: r.hockey at sph.uq.edu.au (Richard Hockey) Date: Wed Oct 15 20:51:50 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations-Bicycle Victoria In-Reply-To: References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Had another look at Forester review and it doesn't stand up. His argument is stated: "Each of Jacobsen's plots is of the form N/C vs C/P, where N = number of accidents, C = number of cyclists, P = size of population. Note that C, the number of cyclists, appears as the denominator of N/C and also appears as the numerator of C/P. Jacobsen sometimes uses number of trips or number of miles travelled instead of number of cyclists, but in each case the mathematical pattern is the same, with the variable representing the amount of cycling appearing in both ratios, once as denominator and once as numerator. The plot of any such data presented in this form will produce a quasi-hyperbolic or decreasing-power pattern that suggests, to the ill-informed, a decrease of accidents with increase of cyclists according to a power of less than one. (Jacobsen found 0.4 to be the power.) The reason is that C, the number of cyclists, appears in both N/C and C/P. Therefore, when C is large, then N/C tends to be small and C/P tends to be large, and when C is small, then N/C tends to be large while C/P tends to be small." The last sentence doesn't hold. If you assume the injury rate and the cycling rate are completely random there is no relationship. But his last sentence says they are not random, more cyclists lower injury rate. His random simulation has injury and cycling rates greater than unity which is impossible. Cheers Richard -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 3:15 PM To: Jim Lewis; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations-Bicycle Victoria Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm interesting..... Richard -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy organisations- Bicycle Victoria Interesting to read this report but the accident component seems to run counter to a paper which was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. The bit I like from that is what they term "a virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more people cycling. But I do like the idea of some strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. Jim Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". 60-Second Science is a daily podcast. http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7 227869B " There's a new prescription for communities that want to make their streets safer for bike riders: just add more bikes. A team of international researchers looked at cities from Australia to Denmark to California, and found that more riders meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers presented their findings to a cycling safety seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. What's surprising, the researchers say, is that biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins between bikes and cars had little to do with miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. Apparently, motorists learn to share the road better when they have to deal with more bikes on their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means more drivers who also bike, which makes them better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. " At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: >"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber >defended his group's role: "Our mission is get >more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to Government."" > >http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-o n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html > >The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE >representative of Victorian cyclists, including >recreational and commuter cyclists. This >position conflicts directly with the CEO's >quoted comments in the above excerpt.. > >One can argue that the same condition holds with >Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of >upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC >governments to be an effective advocate for Qld >cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or >of information on steps being taken by BQ on >behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ >also has been captured by the governments of the day. > >BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems >much more effective at public advocacy for >cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! > > >Make the switch to the world's best email. >Get >Yahoo!7 Mail. >_______________________________________________ >bikeqld mailing list >bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Oct 16 17:38:02 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Oct 16 17:38:25 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclistadvocacy organisations-Bicycle Victoria References: <309919.85151.qm@web44812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><200810142314.m9ENEH8H017309@mail8.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Ok, another Ill-informed 2c from a non statistician..! Apart from the glaring and ridiculous errors in the example made by Forester (As Richard said, the random numbers should have been bounded - although there's nothing to stop a single cyclist having many accidents for eg.) - I think the truth is in the middle ground and could probably be explained by a good mathematician. As Ian suggested, you'd expect a flat line for a constant accident rate. But Forester presents a theory that random rates / ratios will give that hyperbolic graph giving the appearance of a reducing rate. So, wouldn't it be logical to assume, that a constant accident rate (flat line), with randomness overlaid (hyperbola), would give a result in between these two.. still appearing as though more cycling reduces the accident rate? There would be much more known about these kinds of statistics - particularly since so much new medical reasearch is based on "evidence based medicine" which is primarily supposed to sift out the 'causality' from randomness... things like p factors etc. - although I'm sure they get it wrong sometimes too. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Hockey" To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclistadvocacy organisations-Bicycle Victoria > Had another look at Forester review and it doesn't stand up. > His argument is stated: > "Each of Jacobsen's plots is of the form N/C vs C/P, where N = number of > accidents, C = number of cyclists, P = size of population. Note that C, > the number of cyclists, appears as the denominator of N/C and also > appears as the numerator of C/P. Jacobsen sometimes uses number of trips > or number of miles travelled instead of number of cyclists, but in each > case the mathematical pattern is the same, with the variable > representing the amount of cycling appearing in both ratios, once as > denominator and once as numerator. > > The plot of any such data presented in this form will produce a > quasi-hyperbolic or decreasing-power pattern that suggests, to the > ill-informed, a decrease of accidents with increase of cyclists > according to a power of less than one. (Jacobsen found 0.4 to be the > power.) The reason is that C, the number of cyclists, appears in both > N/C and C/P. Therefore, when C is large, then N/C tends to be small and > C/P tends to be large, and when C is small, then N/C tends to be large > while C/P tends to be small." > > The last sentence doesn't hold. If you assume the injury rate and the > cycling rate are completely random there is no relationship. But his > last sentence says they are not random, more cyclists lower injury rate. > > His random simulation has injury and cycling rates greater than unity > which is impossible. > > > Cheers > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Richard Hockey > Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 3:15 PM > To: Jim Lewis; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: RE: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy > organisations-Bicycle Victoria > > Here is a critical review of the paper mentioned below. > http://johnforester.com/Articles/Social/Numbers%20vs%20Safety.htm > interesting..... > > Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis > Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2008 9:14 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Governments capture bicyclist advocacy > organisations- Bicycle Victoria > > Interesting to read this report but the accident > component seems to run counter to a paper which > was presented at a recent conference in Sydney. > The bit I like from that is what they term "a > virtuous cycle" where "run-ins with cars drop > with more bikes on the road." Also interesting is > the observation that "biker safety doesn't seem > to correspond to a city's efforts to cut down on > accidents." Perhaps we do need promotion for more > people cycling. But I do like the idea of some > strong advocacy in support of making provision for cycling . > > Did anyone here get to the seminar or have any more information. > > Jim > > > Scientific American podcast talks of "Bicycle Safety in Numbers". > 60-Second Science is a daily podcast. > http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=46B9E06D-FC8E-9007-E864EF0B7 > 227869B > " > There's a new prescription for communities that > want to make their streets safer for bike riders: > just add more bikes. A team of international > researchers looked at cities from Australia to > Denmark to California, and found that more riders > meant fewer run-ins with cars. The researchers > presented their findings to a cycling safety > seminar on September 5 in Sydney, Australia. > > What's surprising, the researchers say, is that > biker safety doesn't seem to correspond to a > city's efforts to cut down on accidents. Run-ins > between bikes and cars had little to do with > miles of bike lanes or lower speed limits. But if > the number of bike riders in a city doubled, the > rate of bike-car accidents dropped by a third. > > Apparently, motorists learn to share the road > better when they have to deal with more bikes on > their daily commute. Also, more cyclists means > more drivers who also bike, which makes them > better aware of fellow bikers. The researchers > call it a virtuous cycle-run-ins with cars drop > with more bikes on the road. And safer cycling > means more people strap on a helmet and join the revolution. > " > > > At 06:53 AM 14/10/2008 -0700, mich rolling wrote: >>"Bicycle Victoria chief executive Harry Barber >>defended his group's role: "Our mission is get >>more people cycling more often. Our mission is not to advocate to > Government."" >> >> ter-city-20081014-50o4.html>http://www.theage.com.au/national/injuries-o > n-rise-as-more-cyclists-enter-city-20081014-50o4.html >> >>The trouble is that BV presents itself as THE >>representative of Victorian cyclists, including >>recreational and commuter cyclists. This >>position conflicts directly with the CEO's >>quoted comments in the above excerpt.. >> >>One can argue that the same condition holds with >>Bicycle Queensland - is BQ too scared of >>upsetting its' cozy relationships with Qld / BCC >>governments to be an effective advocate for Qld >>cyclists? The lack of a BQ project wishlist, or >>of information on steps being taken by BQ on >>behalf of Queensland cyclists suggests that BQ >>also has been captured by the governments of the day. >> >>BikeQld and the CBDbug on the other hand seems >>much more effective at public advocacy for >>cyclists and at informing/enrolling cyclists to the cause. Go BikeQld! >> >> >>Make the switch to the world's best email. >> com/y7mail>Get >>Yahoo!7 Mail. >>_______________________________________________ >>bikeqld mailing list >>bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ >>http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld >>This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Oct 16 17:40:51 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Oct 16 17:41:11 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] National Ride to Work Day References: <48F53668.7000704@teegee.com.au> Message-ID: <7F09EE7AADFF406898912E54C98C74DE@Toaster> Ah.. no! Just mostly annoyed the person I was supposed to meet that morning was probably lounging around king george square somewhere :) > On Wed, 15 Oct 2008, Ben Guymer wrote: >> Hmm.. I had started work at 6:30am before I realised it was 'riding to >> work is an excuse for being late' day > > So did you then hop back on your bike and go out for another spin until > 9am? ;-) > From michael at yeatesit.biz Tue Oct 21 16:21:49 2008 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Tue Oct 21 16:22:42 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Message-ID: <20081021212212.VYAK12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Hi all ... Brisbane City Council's "Your City Your Say" currently has a survey seeking responses to the possible implementation of a 40km/h speed limit in the CBD. Presumably most of us would strongly support such a move ... both as cyclists and as pedestrians ... maybe even as environmentalists ...! A 40km/h speed limit in the CBD is probably the most effective (and cost effective) way to achieve a whole raft of transport, health, urban design, amenity and environmental outcomes long promoted by Council. It appears few people know (or recall) that when the footpaths along Adelaide Street were widened, and as part of the scheme, the "yellow BIKEs" were added to create what is still the only bicycle corridor in through the CBD, BCC also reduced the speed limit in Adelaide Street to 40km/h only to have it later increased to 50km/h. It is also worth noting that the area covered by the 40km/h zone will be important ... the bigger the better. North Sydney "CBD" has had a 40km/h speed limit in place in its pedestrian activity area for some 5 or more years. Strong community support will be necessary. Beware the temptation to complicate support for this initiative ... nothing is perfect ..! It is getting on for 10 years since BCC nearly implemented a 40km/h zone in the CBD and if the Lord Mayor's CitiBike proposal is to have much chance of success, reducing the speed of traffic is imperative. Anyone interested in more detail is welcome to contact me off-list. MY.................. From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Tue Oct 21 18:09:14 2008 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (PJL Whittle) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:09:29 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: <20081021212212.VYAK12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20081021212212.VYAK12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: Here's a link to the poll. Yes is only 53% so far, so in the finest Queensland democratic tradition, Vote Early, Vote Often. http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/ Pete PS: Something bothers me about the conceit of this man - although I'm sure we can blame his PR advisor! -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 7:22 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Hi all ... Brisbane City Council's "Your City Your Say" currently has a survey seeking responses to the possible implementation of a 40km/h speed limit in the CBD. Presumably most of us would strongly support such a move ... both as cyclists and as pedestrians ... maybe even as environmentalists ...! A 40km/h speed limit in the CBD is probably the most effective (and cost effective) way to achieve a whole raft of transport, health, urban design, amenity and environmental outcomes long promoted by Council. It appears few people know (or recall) that when the footpaths along Adelaide Street were widened, and as part of the scheme, the "yellow BIKEs" were added to create what is still the only bicycle corridor in through the CBD, BCC also reduced the speed limit in Adelaide Street to 40km/h only to have it later increased to 50km/h. It is also worth noting that the area covered by the 40km/h zone will be important ... the bigger the better. North Sydney "CBD" has had a 40km/h speed limit in place in its pedestrian activity area for some 5 or more years. Strong community support will be necessary. Beware the temptation to complicate support for this initiative ... nothing is perfect ..! It is getting on for 10 years since BCC nearly implemented a 40km/h zone in the CBD and if the Lord Mayor's CitiBike proposal is to have much chance of success, reducing the speed of traffic is imperative. Anyone interested in more detail is welcome to contact me off-list. MY.................. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From busrail at fastmail.fm Tue Oct 21 18:47:09 2008 From: busrail at fastmail.fm (Norm Morwood) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:47:41 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> I hope too many bikers don't vote too often too early and ruin the result and be blamed for doing it. Could be false anyway with anyone being able to vote as many times as they like as seems the case. No obvious record of who is voting. If we get 40 k does that wipe out the chance of getting 30 K ever? Or is it a step in the right direction? Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive, anyway. http://256.com/gray/quotes/misc.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of PJL Whittle Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 9:09 AM To: 'Michael Yeates'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Here's a link to the poll. Yes is only 53% so far, so in the finest Queensland democratic tradition, Vote Early, Vote Often. http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/ Pete PS: Something bothers me about the conceit of this man - although I'm sure we can blame his PR advisor! -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 7:22 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Hi all ... Brisbane City Council's "Your City Your Say" currently has a survey seeking responses to the possible implementation of a 40km/h speed limit in the CBD. Presumably most of us would strongly support such a move ... both as cyclists and as pedestrians ... maybe even as environmentalists ...! A 40km/h speed limit in the CBD is probably the most effective (and cost effective) way to achieve a whole raft of transport, health, urban design, amenity and environmental outcomes long promoted by Council. It appears few people know (or recall) that when the footpaths along Adelaide Street were widened, and as part of the scheme, the "yellow BIKEs" were added to create what is still the only bicycle corridor in through the CBD, BCC also reduced the speed limit in Adelaide Street to 40km/h only to have it later increased to 50km/h. It is also worth noting that the area covered by the 40km/h zone will be important ... the bigger the better. North Sydney "CBD" has had a 40km/h speed limit in place in its pedestrian activity area for some 5 or more years. Strong community support will be necessary. Beware the temptation to complicate support for this initiative ... nothing is perfect ..! It is getting on for 10 years since BCC nearly implemented a 40km/h zone in the CBD and if the Lord Mayor's CitiBike proposal is to have much chance of success, reducing the speed of traffic is imperative. Anyone interested in more detail is welcome to contact me off-list. MY.................. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From adsliif2 at tpg.com.au Tue Oct 21 19:16:59 2008 From: adsliif2 at tpg.com.au (John Nightingale) Date: Tue Oct 21 19:17:18 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> Message-ID: No, you can only vote again if you find another computer or user account. That means Leslie and I can only vote seven times on our three computers and 7 user accounts at home. She could vote again at work, I guess. But such a poll shows how important constituents think the issue is. Something anodyne, who would bother? Arouse passion and the passionate vote. My votes seem to have raised the Yes from 53 to 57%... Is anyone else voting? J. On 22/10/08 9:47 AM, "Norm Morwood" wrote: > I hope too many bikers don't vote too often too early and ruin the > result and be blamed for doing it. Could be false anyway with anyone > being able to vote as many times as they like as seems the case. No > obvious record of who is voting. > > If we get 40 k does that wipe out the chance of getting 30 K ever? Or is > it a step in the right direction? > > Regards, Norm. > 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 > 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 > Disclaimer: Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive, > anyway. > http://256.com/gray/quotes/misc.html From sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 19:35:41 2008 From: sebastian.tauchmann at gmail.com (Sebastian Tauchmann) Date: Tue Oct 21 19:35:52 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: References: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> Message-ID: Link to the BCC page, with link to survey and discussion group. It's open until 31 Oct. http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE:1540736450:pc=PC_5080 Seb From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Tue Oct 21 20:00:12 2008 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (PJL Whittle) Date: Tue Oct 21 20:00:30 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> References: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> Message-ID: <73A69CFC4A07400DB2A7B9DB4B2980D4@qut.edu.au> Don't forget how Can't used the Hale St Link comments - substance meant nothing - a simple "Yes" had equal weight to a 30 page submission, and he collected as many Yes votes as he needed. -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Norm Morwood Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 9:47 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD I hope too many bikers don't vote too often too early and ruin the result and be blamed for doing it. Could be false anyway with anyone being able to vote as many times as they like as seems the case. No obvious record of who is voting. If we get 40 k does that wipe out the chance of getting 30 K ever? Or is it a step in the right direction? Regards, Norm. 07 5442 2916, 0409 63 99 44 140 Blackall Range Rd Woombye Qld 4559 Disclaimer: Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive, anyway. http://256.com/gray/quotes/misc.html -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of PJL Whittle Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 9:09 AM To: 'Michael Yeates'; bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: RE: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Here's a link to the poll. Yes is only 53% so far, so in the finest Queensland democratic tradition, Vote Early, Vote Often. http://www.campbellnewman.com.au/ Pete PS: Something bothers me about the conceit of this man - although I'm sure we can blame his PR advisor! -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Michael Yeates Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2008 7:22 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD Hi all ... Brisbane City Council's "Your City Your Say" currently has a survey seeking responses to the possible implementation of a 40km/h speed limit in the CBD. Presumably most of us would strongly support such a move ... both as cyclists and as pedestrians ... maybe even as environmentalists ...! A 40km/h speed limit in the CBD is probably the most effective (and cost effective) way to achieve a whole raft of transport, health, urban design, amenity and environmental outcomes long promoted by Council. It appears few people know (or recall) that when the footpaths along Adelaide Street were widened, and as part of the scheme, the "yellow BIKEs" were added to create what is still the only bicycle corridor in through the CBD, BCC also reduced the speed limit in Adelaide Street to 40km/h only to have it later increased to 50km/h. It is also worth noting that the area covered by the 40km/h zone will be important ... the bigger the better. North Sydney "CBD" has had a 40km/h speed limit in place in its pedestrian activity area for some 5 or more years. Strong community support will be necessary. Beware the temptation to complicate support for this initiative ... nothing is perfect ..! It is getting on for 10 years since BCC nearly implemented a 40km/h zone in the CBD and if the Lord Mayor's CitiBike proposal is to have much chance of success, reducing the speed of traffic is imperative. Anyone interested in more detail is welcome to contact me off-list. MY.................. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Oct 21 20:44:11 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 21 20:44:53 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: <20081021212212.VYAK12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <20081021212212.VYAK12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Michael Yeates wrote: [snip] > Strong community support will be necessary. Beware the temptation to > complicate support for this initiative ... nothing is perfect ..! On the other hand we need to be aware of the trap you pointed out on Thursday last week: > Those of us who were around and recall the promotional material from QT > in regard to the introduction of the "50km/h speed limit in residential > streets" in Queensland (and initially in SEQ) may not recall whether > 40km/h or 30km/h was ever mentioned by comparison with the emphasis on > the benefits of 50km/h. This is another example of the reliance on > emphasising the status quo whereby having "sold" 50km/h as "safe", there > is now opposition to reductions to 40km/h ... mmmmmmmm .. wonder why...! As Norm asked, is "uncomplicated", "strong community support" for the BCC proposal really the best path, or will it lead to the same situation you criticised QT for last week, where we subsequently find it harder to get a better limit further down the track? Personally, I'm in the "it's a good step in the right direction" camp (i.e. I agree with your comment this week and disagree with your comment last week), for what it's worth. Cheers, Ian From gsfergus at optusnet.com.au Tue Oct 21 23:43:15 2008 From: gsfergus at optusnet.com.au (Glen Fergus) Date: Tue Oct 21 23:43:32 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD In-Reply-To: References: <000901c933d7$589f2620$05000a00@Betty> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: Re: [bikeqld] 40km/h in the CBD > No, you can only vote again if you find another computer or > user account. That means Leslie and I can only vote seven > times on our three computers and 7 user accounts at home. > She could vote again at work, I guess. It just sets a cookie on your account. In IE7: Tools|Options|Browsing history|Delete|Delete Cookies; Firefox: Tools|Options|Privacy|Show cookies, find and select Campbell, and click Remove cookie. Then refresh the page. Amusing, but don't do it too often. I assume it's logging IPs. G. From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 22 19:33:49 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Wed Oct 22 19:34:00 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold Message-ID: <337176.20487.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, After 2 weeks off the bicycle (I was coughing very badly in the first week), I found that today I was coughing quite badly even when I am only exerting moderately (climbing hills). Could I have damaged my airway? I sure missed my fitness :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081022/e8c801e4/attachment.htm From the_chris_man_50 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 22 23:05:13 2008 From: the_chris_man_50 at yahoo.com (Chris Lewthwaite) Date: Wed Oct 22 23:05:31 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold In-Reply-To: <337176.20487.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <512613.92160.qm@web51509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The most likely scenario is that you probably still have some crap in your lungs from the illness.? When you were inactive it probably wasn't a major problem, but when you start exercising again and you need to quicken your intake of breath (even moderately), your body suddenly realises it would perform better without the residual crap in your lungs, and decides to do something about it.? ? A two week lay-off (especially if you were fighting an illness at the time) would also slow your fitness a little, which would only exacerbate the problem.? Heck, I had issues after a recent five day lay-off when I had some wisdom teeth removed.? ? Give it a few days without trying to go too hard and you should be alright. --- On Thu, 23/10/08, Anthony Lee wrote: From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold To: "BIQ" Received: Thursday, 23 October, 2008, 11:33 AM Hi all, After 2 weeks off the bicycle (I was coughing very badly in the first week), I found that today I was coughing quite badly even when I am only exerting moderately (climbing hills). Could I have damaged my airway? I sure missed my fitness :-(. ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081022/8da8f944/attachment.htm From museduca at bigpond.net.au Thu Oct 23 13:30:35 2008 From: museduca at bigpond.net.au (Dave Mc) Date: Thu Oct 23 13:31:07 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] RE: lung function In-Reply-To: <200810231700.m9NH05rs031719@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200810231700.m9NH05rs031719@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <014201c9353d$70c6be40$0300000a@acer6dff78d94b> Gday all- I am a lifelong asthmatic- chronic but not brittle - never have bad "sudden" attacks but over a period of time of work stress/fatigue/exhaustion etc will end up at the point where I need a regime of oral cortisone and several days lying around sleeping it all off. I have spent my whole life coughing in some form or other- now it is getting really bad as enormous nasal polyps means I have a constant post-nasal drip running down into my lungs. Anyone who rides with me for the first hour of the morning on the bike can't afford to be squeamish. The exertion of riding makes me REALLY cough and it just aint pretty. Once I get all the gunk up and stretch the lungs I am absolutely tip top for the rest of the day- which means I should ride far more often than I do. Overall my mates take it in their stride. When out on a tour you can hear them barracking me on in the early morning as I struggle to get breath and cough and ride all at the same time- "C'mon cough it all up get it moving!" where would one be without understanding mates. I have also played baritone in a brass band for the last twenty years- and I sing periodically in a choir (yeah pretty desperate choir! :-) ) A few years I tried to get answers from a respiratory specialist where I was pleased to discover that I am in the bottom end of average lung function for someone my age. I had been told 20 yrs earlier by my GP that if I didn't get more active I was on the verge of significant permanent loss of lung function- so all up I reckon I haven't done too badly. And no the respiratory specialist didn't give me any answers or magic cures- same medication and same regime as the previous twenty years! Dave Mc Hervey Bay 0439 432 737 Today's Topics: 1. Lung function after a cold (Anthony Lee) 2. Re: Lung function after a cold (Chris Lewthwaite) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold To: BIQ Message-ID: <337176.20487.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, After 2 weeks off the bicycle (I was coughing very badly in the first week), I found that today I was coughing quite badly even when I am only exerting moderately (climbing hills). Could I have damaged my airway? I sure missed my fitness :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081022/e8c801e4/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Lewthwaite Subject: Re: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <512613.92160.qm@web51509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The most likely scenario is that you probably still have some crap in your lungs from the illness.B When you were inactive it probably wasn't a major problem, but when you start exercising again and you need to quicken your intake of breath (even moderately), your body suddenly realises it would perform better without the residual crap in your lungs, and decides to do something about it.B B A two week lay-off (especially if you were fighting an illness at the time) would also slow your fitness a little, which would only exacerbate the problem.B Heck, I had issues after a recent five day lay-off when I had some wisdom teeth removed.B B Give it a few days without trying to go too hard and you should be alright. --- On Thu, 23/10/08, Anthony Lee wrote: From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold To: "BIQ" Received: Thursday, 23 October, 2008, 11:33 AM Hi all, After 2 weeks off the bicycle (I was coughing very badly in the first week), I found that today I was coughing quite badly even when I am only exerting moderately (climbing hills). Could I have damaged my airway? I sure missed my fitness :-(. B Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081022/8da8f944/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 38, Issue 12 *************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081024/98629a29/attachment-0001.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Oct 23 17:40:54 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Oct 23 17:41:22 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold References: <337176.20487.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Anthony and I thought you were a doctor ;) could be a 'post viral cough' which probably the technical word for keeping coughing for a while after a cold.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_viral_cough Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lee To: BIQ Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: [bikeqld] Lung function after a cold Hi all, After 2 weeks off the bicycle (I was coughing very badly in the first week), I found that today I was coughing quite badly even when I am only exerting moderately (climbing hills). Could I have damaged my airway? I sure missed my fitness :-(. Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081024/55e911ad/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Thu Oct 23 18:28:05 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Thu Oct 23 18:29:07 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Bligh Government shows support for cycling with funding boost (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: statements@qld.gov.au Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:52:55 +1000 Subject: Bligh Government shows support for cycling with funding boost Minister for Main Roads and Local Government The Honourable Warren Pitt 24/10/2008 Bligh Government shows support for cycling with funding boost The Bligh Government will provide $30,000 to cycling groups throughout the state as part of its commitment to support the provision of safe cycling facilities in Queensland. Main Roads Minister and Member for Mulgrave Warren Pitt and Member for Barron River Steve Wettenhall today presented the first instalment of funding - $2500 - to the Cairns Bicycle User Group as part of the statewide initiative to support Bicycle Queensland. Mr Pitt said each of the 12 Main Roads regions throughout Queensland would make the same amount of funding available to bicycle user groups to help promote Bike Week, Ride to Work Day and other cycling events. Mr Pitt and Mr Wettenhall met with Cairns Bicycle User Group officials today in the lead-up to the regional sitting of Parliament in Cairns next week. "Main Roads has a critical role to play in providing cycle facilities and works collaboratively with cycling groups to ensure bicycle facilities are considered when road projects are being planned," Mr Pitt said. "Main Roads in Cairns has an ongoing partnership with the Cairns Bicycle User Group and regularly consults with its representatives when planning these bicycle facilities. "This funding contribution demonstrates our support for the valuable role that cycling groups play in contributing to the development of the cycling network," he said. Cairns Bicycle User Group Manager Lenore Evans said the funding would help the organisation to continue promoting the need for safe bicycle facilities in far north Queensland. "The provision of these bicycle facilities is essential to keep up with the continued growth of cycling for both transport and recreation," Ms Evans said. "This funding will enable us to update our administrative systems so we can communicate with our members and with key organisations like Main Roads," she said. Mr Wettenhall said the increased use of bicycles for transport and recreation contributed directly to the Bligh Government's Toward Q2 vision of reducing obesity, traffic congestion and vehicle emissions. "In today's society we are constantly being made aware of the need to find a healthy balance to our hectic lives," he said. "By continuing to work with organisations such as Bicycle Queensland and the Cairns Bicycle User Group, we can provide safe alternative transport options that will benefit the entire community." The Bligh Government has recently implemented several initiatives to improve bicycle and pedestrian facilities in the far north including: * completion of two projects on the Captain Cook Highway to improve pedestrian and bicycle facilities at the Machans Beach and Caravonica roundabouts * installation of green pavement markings for bicycles at various intersections and roundabouts in Cairns * installation of bicycle hook-turn storage boxes at various intersections in Carins, initially implemented during the upgrade of the Mulgrave Road and Severin Street intersection in 2007. The hook turn storage boxes are providing a safer option for cyclists when wanting to make a right-turn at multi-laned intersections and are being installed at identified intersections currently being upgraded across the region. Media contact: Mr Pitt's Office 3227 8819; Barron River Electorate Office 4038 2800 ============================================================== To unsubscribe from the Media Statements mailing list, or change the minister(s) and/or portfolio(s) to which you are subscribed, please go to the 'login' page at http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/mms/Login.aspx From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Sat Oct 25 02:41:58 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Sat Oct 25 02:42:15 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] BetterPlace Message-ID: <2096.70015.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for all those people who responded to my question about coughing. Here's a website I find up lifiting. May be you want to contribute. http://10words.betterplace.com/minifesto/1671 Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081025/e323e2a7/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Mon Oct 27 05:49:38 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Mon Oct 27 05:49:52 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden City to Logan Road Message-ID: <211177.29486.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Who is the myster cyclist on this new section of cycleway - seen on Google Streetview about the first street light north of where the Logan Road sliproad merge marker finishes?onto the Pacific Motorway? Appears to be riding? a flat bar. ? The related question is why the opening of this section of dedicated cyclist veloway received zip/zero/nada mention on this forum. Most of us seem far too cool to be happy when bits of infrastructure are delivered and only whinge about what is not given. ? No Michael, I would not rather ride on Logan Road into the city (although the doggy path around Juliette St is an embarrassment). Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081027/f7e964f9/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Oct 27 13:12:09 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Oct 27 13:12:27 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden City to Logan Road Message-ID: <152216.47842.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Mich, Could you give us an address or link to see this Google Streetview of the new cycleway? Logan road is rather long! Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Monday, 27 October, 2008 8:49:38 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden City to Logan Road Who is the myster cyclist on this new section of cycleway - seen on Google Streetview about the first street light north of where the Logan Road sliproad merge marker finishes onto the Pacific Motorway? Appears to be riding a flat bar. The related question is why the opening of this section of dedicated cyclist veloway received zip/zero/nada mention on this forum. Most of us seem far too cool to be happy when bits of infrastructure are delivered and only whinge about what is not given. No Michael, I would not rather ride on Logan Road into the city (although the doggy path around Juliette St is an embarrassment). ________________________________ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081027/36f7a785/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Oct 27 13:28:43 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Oct 27 13:28:56 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Heat pack or cold pack? Message-ID: <620607.72750.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Just wondering what is a better treatment for leg muscle injuries? Heat pack or cold pack? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081027/90e08d6f/attachment.htm From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Mon Oct 27 13:30:27 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Mon Oct 27 13:30:39 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? Message-ID: <362855.40594.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Are there any good web pages on how to mount panniers? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081027/f2d170eb/attachment.htm From the_chris_man_50 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 22:59:46 2008 From: the_chris_man_50 at yahoo.com (Chris Lewthwaite) Date: Mon Oct 27 23:00:01 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? In-Reply-To: <362855.40594.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <463100.81360.qm@web51506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Different panniers have different mounting systems.? I'm not sure what type of panniers you're using, but perhaps you could do a google search on that particular brand. --- On Tue, 28/10/08, Anthony Lee wrote: From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? To: "BIQ" Received: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008, 5:30 AM Hi all, Are there any good web pages on how to mount panniers? Thank you ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail._______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081027/6b0d5bb7/attachment.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 28 03:28:59 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Tue Oct 28 03:29:15 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden City to Logan Road Message-ID: <23773.57338.qm@web44810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The guy (?) is about opposite the red car heading north on the freeway at 508604 E 6950582 S on Google Earth. Go to StreetView and he should be in the photo adjacent. Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081028/ff453ec8/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Oct 28 08:24:10 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 28 08:27:02 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Northern Link EIS Message-ID: Has anybody had a good look through the Northern Link EIS (released last weekend) yet? http://www.northernlinkeis.com.au/EISDocuments.html For those who haven't been following, Northern Link is the latest in Campbell Newman's TransApex plan to systematically destroy or disrupt every significant bike route in Brisbane and get everybody back into their cars. Following on from the havoc wreaked on the South East Freeway bikeway and associated messes on the Bicentennial Bikeway, Inner City Bypass and Riverside Drive created by the North-South Bypass Tunnel and Hale Street Link, we have Northern Link looming ready to close the Western Freeway bikeway, the bikeway from Sylvan Rd to Miskin St at Toowong, and the few remaining bikeways that give access from the north side. In volume 1, section 4.2.5 (p4-10) the EIS acknowledges that they'll need to move the Western Freeway bikeway to allow their new ramps and car lane to fit onto the freeway. No word I can see on what grades the new bike path will have (up and over the hills cheaply, or dug through them like the cars get?). Section 5.7.7 (p5-145) admits "there are not satisfactory alternative routes for cyclist (sic) and pedestrians" and says that consequently the bikeway will "generally" not be closed during construction, but I can't see anything more solid than that. There are some similarly vague words about the bikeway in front of the Hutchinson building at the end of Sylvan Rd remaining "operational" during construction, but it's hard to see how they're going to be able to manage that given the artist's impression of the location shown in the "visual environment" chapter (chapter 14, vantage point TC6). At the ICB end section we read on page 5-146 that the bikeways on both northern and southern sides of the road will need to be moved, and again not really anything in the way of assurance about how much this will affect us. That section says the realignment near Victoria Park Road will only be temporary, but it's hard to see how it isn't permanent in the pictures in chapter 14 (see the pictures from vantage points NC1, NC2 and NC3, and check out the massive unfiltered smokestack right next to the bikeway in NC4). Anyway, that's just a few tastes from a quick skim. There should be plenty more to keep us entertained over the next few years as they construct this thing. Anybody interested in finding out more should have a read through the EIS documents (link above), come along to the presentation from the Northern Link team at the CBD BUG meeting tomorrow (12:30pm, Wednesday 28th October, Brisbane Square community meeting room, or see ), and start writing their submission to the Coordinator-General (as described at the bottom of the EIS page linked above) to try to get some changes made to the project in our favour, or at least avoid it being as much of a disaster as the last few TransApex projects have been for cycling. Cheers, Ian From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 28 09:44:41 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Tue Oct 28 09:44:54 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Northern Link EIS Message-ID: <34252.31196.qm@web44811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wish I could be at the CBDBug seminar tomorrow. ? I would ask the question: Why not plan in a direct link from Normandy Bus station to Kelvin Grove intellectual village? The last plan I saw has pedestrians and cyclists taking a 400m extra detour around Upper Clifton Terrace! Alternatively cyclists from QUT Gardens Point can detour 1.7km via the LandBridge. ? There is potential to run an SUP beside the old barrack workshops or through the carpark to the top of the stairs at the Hale St overpass and then hang the SUP under the overpass and pole it over the ICB slip roads to the bus station. Cost would be lost in the catering charges for the tunnel building. ? The opportunity exists NOW to incorporate the beginnings of the SUP from Normandy SUP tunnel over the new spaghetti junction, past (not through) the knowledge city and on to Kelvin Grove High School. A link from there to the Kelvin Brook path would not then be too difficult to do. ? The western Toowong end will just be a nightmare for five years. Get used to it if you are trying to get from Bardon to UQ. ? Look forward to the meeting notes on the website. ? Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081028/d8327ef5/attachment-0001.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Tue Oct 28 18:52:22 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Tue Oct 28 18:52:39 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden Cityto Logan Road References: <211177.29486.qm@web44806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <494D523C439843DA8AD067FEE1072997@Toaster> Well on the bright side, the bikepath entrance to the Green bridge has re-opened a short time back.. resplendent with extra wiggly bits and wire mesh fencing. However I'm yet to scope out my more useful route through the graveyard. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden Cityto Logan Road Who is the myster cyclist on this new section of cycleway - seen on Google Streetview about the first street light north of where the Logan Road sliproad merge marker finishes onto the Pacific Motorway? Appears to be riding a flat bar. The related question is why the opening of this section of dedicated cyclist veloway received zip/zero/nada mention on this forum. Most of us seem far too cool to be happy when bits of infrastructure are delivered and only whinge about what is not given. No Michael, I would not rather ride on Logan Road into the city (although the doggy path around Juliette St is an embarrassment). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081029/39790540/attachment.htm From i.golledge at qut.edu.au Tue Oct 28 19:08:35 2008 From: i.golledge at qut.edu.au (Ian Golledge) Date: Tue Oct 28 19:08:57 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden Cityto Logan Road Message-ID: <74903C8B8E884349B1E568B2082BCABB69C428B991@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Well, if anyone's riding this stretch at the moment, watch for the large aggressive magpie at the Logan Road end, to the right of the path. Ian To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden Cityto Logan Road Who is the myster cyclist on this new section of cycleway - seen on Google Streetview about the first street light north of where the Logan Road sliproad merge marker finishes onto the Pacific Motorway? Appears to be riding a flat bar. The related question is why the opening of this section of dedicated cyclist veloway received zip/zero/nada mention on this forum. Most of us seem far too cool to be happy when bits of infrastructure are delivered and only whinge about what is not given. No Michael, I would not rather ride on Logan Road into the city (although the doggy path around Juliette St is an embarrassment). ________________________________ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081029/3d8888af/attachment.htm From list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net Tue Oct 28 19:36:04 2008 From: list-bikeqld at lister.dnsalias.net (Ian Lister) Date: Tue Oct 28 19:37:47 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Mystery cyclist on mystery cycleway section Garden City to Logan Road In-Reply-To: <23773.57338.qm@web44810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <23773.57338.qm@web44810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ah, _that_ onramp! I spent a while looking for the mystery cyclist the other day but it's much easier with coordinates :-) (Anybody else dying to see what the fuss is about might find it easier to convert the UBD's UTM AGD-66 coordinates below to Google's geographic WGS-84 coordinates; "27.5685S 153.08716E" is a good set to type into Google Maps) So, no, I don't know when that section of bikeway was built. It's not my side of town but last time I tried following the South East Freeway bike path as far as I could I seemed to run out of options somewhere around there. I've no idea how you're supposed to get all the way to the Gold Coast. The available bikeway maps didn't shed much light on the situation either. Cheers, Ian On Tue, 28 Oct 2008, mich rolling wrote: > The guy (?) is about opposite the red car heading north on the freeway at > 508604 E 6950582 S > on Google Earth. Go to StreetView and he should be in the photo adjacent. Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 From doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au Tue Oct 28 21:32:00 2008 From: doctorw1963 at yahoo.com.au (Anthony Lee) Date: Tue Oct 28 21:32:14 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? Message-ID: <520375.89978.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Chris for the reply. My is?the Ventura 140 http://www.agu.com/en/?pag=26&prod=354# ?Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ From: Chris Lewthwaite To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008 1:59:46 PM Subject: Re: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? Different panniers have different mounting systems.? I'm not sure what type of panniers you're using, but perhaps you could do a google search on that particular brand. --- On Tue, 28/10/08, Anthony Lee wrote: From: Anthony Lee Subject: [bikeqld] General tips for mounting pannier? To: "BIQ" Received: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008, 5:30 AM Hi all, Are there any good web pages on how to mount panniers? Thank you Anthony Lee The Doctor -- the last of the Time Lords? ........-- __o ....-- _ \<,_ ........(_) / (_) E-Mail: doctorw1963@yahoo.com.au ________________________________ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. ________________________________ Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081028/af3176f9/attachment.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Oct 29 02:19:24 2008 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Oct 29 02:19:53 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling Promotion Fund and other project funding Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0382BFE3E5@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Cycling Promotion Fund Provider - Cycling Promotion Fund (CPF) Funding Amount - Various Closing date - Ongoing Purpose - To provide financial assistance is to help not-for-profit organisations or government departments with the development of programs and projects that will increase participation in cycling across socio-demographic and age groups in the community, which would otherwise not be undertaken. Overview - Programs and projects must: * be based on demonstrated need and based on best practice approaches of projects of similar nature * meet the objectives of the Fund to increase bicycle use * have clearly stated and achievable outcomes * have clearly defined timetable which is realistic for the task or action * have measurable outcomes (i.e. can be evaluated) Particular consideration will be given to projects which: * Are based on collaboration and or partnerships with other organisations * produce a repeatable outcome (e.g. a report, a methodology or program framework which can be used by others, or has a reasonable 'shelf life') * attract additional funding (at least 1:1 or better) or in-kind contribution by the applicant and or from other sources Please contact the Program Director Rosemarie Speidel before making a formal submission to discuss your proposal. Priority - Preference will be given to projects which will help to increase cycling as a transport or health/recreational option rather than sport or competition. For further information contact: Ms Rosemarie Speidel Program Director Cycling Promotion Fund Phone - (03) 9818 5400 Email - speidel@cyclingpromotion.com.au National Solar Schools Program Provider - Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Funding - To qualify for the full $50,000 (GST exclusive) schools must install at least a 2 kilowatt solar power system. If non solar power system or a system less than 2 kilowatts is installed, funding up to $30,000 (GST exclusive) is available to be spent on eligible items under National Solar Schools. Closing date - Ongoing Purpose - To offer grants to schools to install solar power systems, rainwater tanks and a range of energy efficiency measures. Overview - The Governments vision is for solar panels to be on the rooftops of every school in Australia. National Solar Schools aims to make every Australian primary and secondary school a solar school by 2015. National Solar Schools will offer grants of up to $50,000 (GST exclusive) to install solar power systems, rainwater tanks and a range of energy efficient measures such as: * Small wind turbine and hydro power generators * Solar hot water systems * Energy efficient lighting * Shade awnings * Skylights * Wall and ceiling insulation. National Solar Schools allows schools to choose the most effective way to meet their energy and water efficiency goals. Limitations - Kindergartens, early childhood centres, preschools, TAFE colleges and universities are ineligible for National Solar Schools funding. Who can apply - Government and non-government schools are eligible for National Solar Schools funding if they are a state registered primary and/or secondary school and are eligible to receive Australian Government general recurrent grants payments under the Schools Assistance (Learning Together - Achievement Through Choice and Opportunity) Act 2004. For further information contact: Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Email - nationalsolarschools@environment.gov.au Website - www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/nationalsolarschools/index.html Grants to Voluntary Environment and Heritage Organisations (GVEHO) program 2008-09 Provider - Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Funding Amounts - Various Closing date - 5pm 28 November 2008 Overview - Grants to Voluntary Environment and Heritage Organisations (GVEHO) program helps eligible community based environment and historic heritage organisations to value, conserve and protect Australia's natural environment and historic heritage by assisting with their administrative funding. What can be funded - Funds provided through the GVEHO program may be used to assist with salaries and salary on-costs for executive and administrative staff, office accommodation rental, electricity, gas, phone and other similar charges, essential office supplies and equipment, staff and volunteer training, photocopying and printing costs, and travel costs incurred on behalf of the organisation. Who can apply - Grants are open to national, state/territory, regional and local not-for-profit organisations geared towards; * The protection and/or enhancement of the natural environment; or * The protection and/or conservation of Australia's historic heritage For further information contact: The Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Phone - (02) 6274 2422 Email - gveho@environment.gov.au Website - www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho Guidelines - www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho/pubs/guidelines-gveho-08-09.pdf Application form - http://www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho/pubs/application-gveho-08-09.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081029/e22caf76/attachment-0001.htm From peter.whittle at qut.edu.au Wed Oct 29 04:00:21 2008 From: peter.whittle at qut.edu.au (Peter Whittle) Date: Wed Oct 29 04:00:55 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling Promotion Fund and other project funding In-Reply-To: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0382BFE3E5@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> References: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0382BFE3E5@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: <51FC1E99A89C9E4796A8C2E296FFFBAE0382BFE3E9@QUTEXMBX03.qut.edu.au> Please note the CPF funding approach has recently been reviewed and the post may not be correct (thanks CFSMTB). Please see the following: CPF Media release 30th July, 2008: Bicycle Industry directs focus to Federal programs http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/content/view/341/9/ Funding Opportunities http://www.cyclingpromotion.com.au/funding-opportunities.html ________________________________ From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Peter Whittle Sent: Wednesday, 29 October 2008 5:19 PM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] Cycling Promotion Fund and other project funding Cycling Promotion Fund Provider - Cycling Promotion Fund (CPF) Funding Amount - Various Closing date - Ongoing Purpose - To provide financial assistance is to help not-for-profit organisations or government departments with the development of programs and projects that will increase participation in cycling across socio-demographic and age groups in the community, which would otherwise not be undertaken. Overview - Programs and projects must: * be based on demonstrated need and based on best practice approaches of projects of similar nature * meet the objectives of the Fund to increase bicycle use * have clearly stated and achievable outcomes * have clearly defined timetable which is realistic for the task or action * have measurable outcomes (i.e. can be evaluated) Particular consideration will be given to projects which: * Are based on collaboration and or partnerships with other organisations * produce a repeatable outcome (e.g. a report, a methodology or program framework which can be used by others, or has a reasonable 'shelf life') * attract additional funding (at least 1:1 or better) or in-kind contribution by the applicant and or from other sources Please contact the Program Director Rosemarie Speidel before making a formal submission to discuss your proposal. Priority - Preference will be given to projects which will help to increase cycling as a transport or health/recreational option rather than sport or competition. For further information contact: Ms Rosemarie Speidel Program Director Cycling Promotion Fund Phone - (03) 9818 5400 Email - speidel@cyclingpromotion.com.au National Solar Schools Program Provider - Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Funding - To qualify for the full $50,000 (GST exclusive) schools must install at least a 2 kilowatt solar power system. If non solar power system or a system less than 2 kilowatts is installed, funding up to $30,000 (GST exclusive) is available to be spent on eligible items under National Solar Schools. Closing date - Ongoing Purpose - To offer grants to schools to install solar power systems, rainwater tanks and a range of energy efficiency measures. Overview - The Governments vision is for solar panels to be on the rooftops of every school in Australia. National Solar Schools aims to make every Australian primary and secondary school a solar school by 2015. National Solar Schools will offer grants of up to $50,000 (GST exclusive) to install solar power systems, rainwater tanks and a range of energy efficient measures such as: * Small wind turbine and hydro power generators * Solar hot water systems * Energy efficient lighting * Shade awnings * Skylights * Wall and ceiling insulation. National Solar Schools allows schools to choose the most effective way to meet their energy and water efficiency goals. Limitations - Kindergartens, early childhood centres, preschools, TAFE colleges and universities are ineligible for National Solar Schools funding. Who can apply - Government and non-government schools are eligible for National Solar Schools funding if they are a state registered primary and/or secondary school and are eligible to receive Australian Government general recurrent grants payments under the Schools Assistance (Learning Together - Achievement Through Choice and Opportunity) Act 2004. For further information contact: Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Email - nationalsolarschools@environment.gov.au Website - www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/nationalsolarschools/index.html Grants to Voluntary Environment and Heritage Organisations (GVEHO) program 2008-09 Provider - Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Funding Amounts - Various Closing date - 5pm 28 November 2008 Overview - Grants to Voluntary Environment and Heritage Organisations (GVEHO) program helps eligible community based environment and historic heritage organisations to value, conserve and protect Australia's natural environment and historic heritage by assisting with their administrative funding. What can be funded - Funds provided through the GVEHO program may be used to assist with salaries and salary on-costs for executive and administrative staff, office accommodation rental, electricity, gas, phone and other similar charges, essential office supplies and equipment, staff and volunteer training, photocopying and printing costs, and travel costs incurred on behalf of the organisation. Who can apply - Grants are open to national, state/territory, regional and local not-for-profit organisations geared towards; * The protection and/or enhancement of the natural environment; or * The protection and/or conservation of Australia's historic heritage For further information contact: The Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts Phone - (02) 6274 2422 Email - gveho@environment.gov.au Website - www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho Guidelines - www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho/pubs/guidelines-gveho-08-09.pdf Application form - http://www.environment.gov.au/about/programs/gveho/pubs/application-gveho-08-09.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081029/1f8036bb/attachment-0001.htm From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Wed Oct 29 07:57:53 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Wed Oct 29 07:58:16 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo's Cycling Fund Message-ID: <388589.20393.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> CanDoNewman came up with this list of bikeways back in June. ? No pricings and most of them are unknown to me. ? Does anyone have a map showing where they are and something of a priority list for their implementation? ? Massive boost to bikeways and active travel Written on the 11th of June 2008 Campbell Newman Lord Mayor? BUDGET 2008-09 MEDIA RELEASE 1106 Budget - Active Transport Cyclists will soon see the benefits of Lord Mayor Campbell Newman?s massive $100 million investment in bikeways, with the roll out of his bold vision imminent. Over $25 million will be spent on the Brisbane?s bikeway network this coming financial year alone, which will see new infrastructure created and existing bikeways upgraded. ?To put this in context, Council spent $25.9 million on bikeways over the past four years, so we?re effectively spending in one year what we just did in four,? Cr Newman said. ?This is a significant commitment that will reduce traffic congestion, decrease carbon emissions, promote fitness and increase safety around schools. ?We have quadrupled funding so cyclists commuting from the suburbs have the opportunity to get right across the city without needing to weave through traffic.? A full list of planned bikeway improvements over the next four years is included overleaf. The Lord Mayor?s visionary bike hire scheme, which has captured the public?s imagination both here and interstate, receives $600,000 in the upcoming financial year. ?In the future, I see bikes playing a much greater role in shorter distance travel ? and what we are doing is helping to encourage and speed that culture change by providing the infrastructure,? he said. ?Grabbing a hire bike is not only a hassle-free way to get around, but it?s also a healthy alternative and helps the environment. ?What I expect is that people will see how easy it is to get around the city by bike and will naturally use the car less for quick trips down to the shops and other short journeys.? Also included in the funding is $200,000 in 2008/09 (rising to $300,000 in upcoming Budgets) for bikeway safety signage, so users will know exactly where they are at all times. ?People will be seeing bikeways and footpaths across the city upgraded to ensure they are safe and serviceable,? Cr Newman said. In line with that massive investment, the Lord Mayor has doubled funding to $750,000 for the highly successful Active School Travel program. Participating schools have seen an 11.3 per cent decrease in sole passenger car travel to and from school. They also experienced a 7 per cent increase in walking and a 4 per cent increase in car-pooling. ?Last year, we worked with 13 schools to develop Active School Travel programs, so we would hope to see that number double in the coming year,? Cr Newman said. ?It?s all about encouraging healthy behaviours at a young age and I am delighted to see how successful the program has been so far.? The Lord Mayor?s commitment to cycling infrastructure was demonstrated just last week, with the official opening of the Council-funded King George Square Cycle Centre. Full list of local bikeways (North): ? ? Kedron Brook Bikeway, Mitchelton Stage 2 ? Kedron Brook Bikeway, Mitchelton Stage 3 ? Kedron Brook Feeder, Everton Park ? Kedron Brook Feeder, Grange ? Kedron Brook Greenway, Ferny Hills (Mooney St ? Tramway St) ? Kelvin Grove Urban Village to Brisbane Grammar Land Bridge ? Dawson Parade, Oxford Park (under Dawson Rd linking with existing cycleway) Grovely ? Enoggera Creek Bikeway, Kelvin Grove/Newmarket (Bancroft Park to Spencer Park) ? Enoggera Creek, Kelvin Grove (Picot St to Clyde Rd) ? Hogarth Rd, Ferny Grove ? Cemetery Rd, Ferny Grove ? Selkirk Crescent, Upper Kedron ? Heilbromm St, Stafford Heights ? Downfall Creek Bikeway, Banyo (Virginia Station to Nudgee Recreation Reserve) ? Downfall Creek, Stafford Heights (Rode Rd to Lanchester St) ? Downfall Creek, Virginia (Borrows Rd) ? Bald Hills Creek (Cavalier Cl to Hoyland St) ? Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway, Taigum (Cambridge Crescent to Lemke Rd) ? Gateway North, Eagle Farm (DFO to Schultz Canal bikeway) ? Little Cabbage Tree Creek, Aspley (Aspley Hypermarket to Aspley High) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Padova St to Coonawarra Drive, plus bridge to Alan Guy bikeway) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Phillip Vaughan Park to Graham Rd) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Squash courts to Gympie Rd) ? Nundah Creek Bikeway, Nudgee (Nudgee Recreation Reserve to Bicentennial Rd) ? South Pine River Greenway, Bald Hills (Westfield Strathpine to Wyampa Rd) ? Great Northern Arterial, Zillmere to Chermside (Kakadu Ct to Ellison Rd) ? Great Northern Greenway, Bracken Ridge (Lemke Rd to South Pine River) ? Geebung Park to Murphy Rd, Geebung ? Nudgee Bridge to Jim Soorley Bikeway, Nundah ? Kedron Brook Bikeway ? Beams Rd Connection ? Childs Rd, Nudgee (off road path) ? Coopers Camp Rd to Coolibah St, Bardon ? Western Arterial, Moggil Creek, Kenmore Hills (Rees Way to Brookfield State School) ? Bardon Scenic Reserve ? Great Western Greenway, Kenmore (Westminster Court to Kingfisher Park) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Moggill Rd to Boblynne St) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Rebecca St to Brushbox Court) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Dillingen St to Lambeth St)????????????????????????????????? ? Western Freeway Connector, Kenmore (Rafting Ground Reserve to Gem Rd) ? Toowong Bus Depot Connection ? Dobell St, Indooroopilly (Western Freeway Connector Stage 2) ? Glen Rd to Sandford St, Toowong ? Rafting Ground Reserve, Kenmore ? Bardon Scenic Reserve (Ithaca Creek) ? Crompton St, Kenmore Hills ? Dorrington Park Ashgrove, Stages 1 and 2 ? Sunset Rd, Kenmore ? Bicentennial Bikeway progressive widening Stage 2 ? Bicentennial Bikeway progressive widening Stage 3 Full list of local bikeways (South): ? Yeronga Bikeway (Woodlea St to Fairfield Rd) ? Great Eastern Arterial, Coorparoo (Whites Hill Reserve - Norman Creek) ? Tarragindi Bikeway Stage 1 (Evans Rd to Pope St) ? Tarragindi Bikeway Stage 2 (Pope St - Cracknell Rd) ? Moorooka Greenway, Tarragindi (Mayfield St to Sunshine Ave through Tarragindi Rec Res) ? Orient Road Park, Yeronga ? Tonks St, Moorooka ? Great Southern Greenway (Vendale Ave - Toohey Forest) ? Toohey Forest - Ridge Track to SEF Bikeway ? Algoori St - Lytton Rd, Morningside ? South Eastern Feeder Norman Creek (Greenslopes Busway Station to Birdwood Rd) ? Carina Heights Stage 1 (Gallipoli Rd - Gaffney St) ? Carina Heights Stage 2 (Gaffney St - Creek Rd) ? Lambertia Cl - Donnington St, Carina ? Bridgewater Ck - Old Cleveland Rd to Temple St ? Riverwalk KP Stage 2 (Bright Street - Holman Street) ? Barwon St- Lytton Rd (Colmslie Pool) ? C B Mott Park, Holland Park ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Wishart Stage 2 (Wishart Community Park) ? Carina Heights Stage 1 (Gallipoli Rd - Gaffney St) ? Carina Heights Stage 2 (Gaffney St - Creek Rd) ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Macgregor (SE Freeway Bikeway to DM Henderson Park) ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Wishart Stage 3 (Bellbird Crescent to Stackpole Street) ? Lambertia Cl - Donnington St, Carina ? Bridgewater Ck - Old Cleveland Rd to Temple St ? Great Southern Greenway, Calamvale (Hellawell Road - Algester Rd) ? Willawong Bikeway (Forest Lake to Algester via Pallara) ? Greenways Esplanade, Parkinson ? Beryl Roberts Park, Coopers Plains ? Jindalee Bikeway, Mt Ommaney Dr - Kooringal Dr ? Oxley Creek Greenway, Corinda (Strickland Tce - Oxley Common) Stage 2 ? Willawong Bikeway (Forest Lake to Algester via Pallara) ? John Magee Park (Counihan Rd), Seventeen Mile Rocks ? Eden Brooke Greenway (Ashridge Road - Darra Train Station), Darra ? Pampling St, Seventeen Mile Rocks? - existing bikeway (UBD 198 B9) ? Wacol Rail Trail- Viking Drive- Campbell Ave ? Wynnum Road mad mile (Manly Rd - Preston Rd) ? Arafura Cr - Soloman Cr - Castlerea St, Tingalpa ? Gateway South (Lytton Rd - Murarrie Rec Reserve) ? Algoori Street, Morningside ? Lytton Road cycle link (Junction Rd? - Gateway Upgrade) [Ends] June 11, 2008 ? Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081029/7a489052/attachment.htm From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Wed Oct 29 17:14:17 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Wed Oct 29 17:14:44 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo's Cycling Fund References: <388589.20393.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7494244EE1E54A76A0D10900D27D915D@Toaster> well, I don't have a map, but looking at a few more familiar areas, they seem mostly in keeping with the bikeway-around-a-park theme, don't seem focussed on what the media release proposes. For example, take strickland tce - oxley common upgrade. There are some bikepaths there, and they've done a little bit of work around it (a track worn from cutting the corner on a footpath has been concreted). But in the end it will only service residents cycling from the back of Corinda who are heading towards graceville - harldy two hubs of activity. Or joining Sherwood rd to Graceville ave. If commuting, what fools would divert along sherwood rd in order to use that section of path?!! Bad enough driving on it! I don't really understand, It has to be obvious to the people designing them that they're of little use for commuting. Nice for a sat afternoon walk though Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: mich rolling To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo's Cycling Fund CanDoNewman came up with this list of bikeways back in June. No pricings and most of them are unknown to me. Does anyone have a map showing where they are and something of a priority list for their implementation? Massive boost to bikeways and active travel Written on the 11th of June 2008 Campbell Newman Lord Mayor BUDGET 2008-09 MEDIA RELEASE 1106 Budget - Active Transport Cyclists will soon see the benefits of Lord Mayor Campbell Newman?s massive $100 million investment in bikeways, with the roll out of his bold vision imminent. Over $25 million will be spent on the Brisbane?s bikeway network this coming financial year alone, which will see new infrastructure created and existing bikeways upgraded. ?To put this in context, Council spent $25.9 million on bikeways over the past four years, so we?re effectively spending in one year what we just did in four,? Cr Newman said. ?This is a significant commitment that will reduce traffic congestion, decrease carbon emissions, promote fitness and increase safety around schools. ?We have quadrupled funding so cyclists commuting from the suburbs have the opportunity to get right across the city without needing to weave through traffic.? A full list of planned bikeway improvements over the next four years is included overleaf. The Lord Mayor?s visionary bike hire scheme, which has captured the public?s imagination both here and interstate, receives $600,000 in the upcoming financial year. ?In the future, I see bikes playing a much greater role in shorter distance travel ? and what we are doing is helping to encourage and speed that culture change by providing the infrastructure,? he said. ?Grabbing a hire bike is not only a hassle-free way to get around, but it?s also a healthy alternative and helps the environment. ?What I expect is that people will see how easy it is to get around the city by bike and will naturally use the car less for quick trips down to the shops and other short journeys.? Also included in the funding is $200,000 in 2008/09 (rising to $300,000 in upcoming Budgets) for bikeway safety signage, so users will know exactly where they are at all times. ?People will be seeing bikeways and footpaths across the city upgraded to ensure they are safe and serviceable,? Cr Newman said. In line with that massive investment, the Lord Mayor has doubled funding to $750,000 for the highly successful Active School Travel program. Participating schools have seen an 11.3 per cent decrease in sole passenger car travel to and from school. They also experienced a 7 per cent increase in walking and a 4 per cent increase in car-pooling. ?Last year, we worked with 13 schools to develop Active School Travel programs, so we would hope to see that number double in the coming year,? Cr Newman said. ?It?s all about encouraging healthy behaviours at a young age and I am delighted to see how successful the program has been so far.? The Lord Mayor?s commitment to cycling infrastructure was demonstrated just last week, with the official opening of the Council-funded King George Square Cycle Centre. Full list of local bikeways (North): ? Kedron Brook Bikeway, Mitchelton Stage 2 ? Kedron Brook Bikeway, Mitchelton Stage 3 ? Kedron Brook Feeder, Everton Park ? Kedron Brook Feeder, Grange ? Kedron Brook Greenway, Ferny Hills (Mooney St ? Tramway St) ? Kelvin Grove Urban Village to Brisbane Grammar Land Bridge ? Dawson Parade, Oxford Park (under Dawson Rd linking with existing cycleway) Grovely ? Enoggera Creek Bikeway, Kelvin Grove/Newmarket (Bancroft Park to Spencer Park) ? Enoggera Creek, Kelvin Grove (Picot St to Clyde Rd) ? Hogarth Rd, Ferny Grove ? Cemetery Rd, Ferny Grove ? Selkirk Crescent, Upper Kedron ? Heilbromm St, Stafford Heights ? Downfall Creek Bikeway, Banyo (Virginia Station to Nudgee Recreation Reserve) ? Downfall Creek, Stafford Heights (Rode Rd to Lanchester St) ? Downfall Creek, Virginia (Borrows Rd) ? Bald Hills Creek (Cavalier Cl to Hoyland St) ? Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway, Taigum (Cambridge Crescent to Lemke Rd) ? Gateway North, Eagle Farm (DFO to Schultz Canal bikeway) ? Little Cabbage Tree Creek, Aspley (Aspley Hypermarket to Aspley High) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Padova St to Coonawarra Drive, plus bridge to Alan Guy bikeway) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Phillip Vaughan Park to Graham Rd) ? Cabbage Tree Creek, Carseldine (Squash courts to Gympie Rd) ? Nundah Creek Bikeway, Nudgee (Nudgee Recreation Reserve to Bicentennial Rd) ? South Pine River Greenway, Bald Hills (Westfield Strathpine to Wyampa Rd) ? Great Northern Arterial, Zillmere to Chermside (Kakadu Ct to Ellison Rd) ? Great Northern Greenway, Bracken Ridge (Lemke Rd to South Pine River) ? Geebung Park to Murphy Rd, Geebung ? Nudgee Bridge to Jim Soorley Bikeway, Nundah ? Kedron Brook Bikeway ? Beams Rd Connection ? Childs Rd, Nudgee (off road path) ? Coopers Camp Rd to Coolibah St, Bardon ? Western Arterial, Moggil Creek, Kenmore Hills (Rees Way to Brookfield State School) ? Bardon Scenic Reserve ? Great Western Greenway, Kenmore (Westminster Court to Kingfisher Park) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Moggill Rd to Boblynne St) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Rebecca St to Brushbox Court) ? Cubberla Creek, Chapel Hill (Dillingen St to Lambeth St) ? Western Freeway Connector, Kenmore (Rafting Ground Reserve to Gem Rd) ? Toowong Bus Depot Connection ? Dobell St, Indooroopilly (Western Freeway Connector Stage 2) ? Glen Rd to Sandford St, Toowong ? Rafting Ground Reserve, Kenmore ? Bardon Scenic Reserve (Ithaca Creek) ? Crompton St, Kenmore Hills ? Dorrington Park Ashgrove, Stages 1 and 2 ? Sunset Rd, Kenmore ? Bicentennial Bikeway progressive widening Stage 2 ? Bicentennial Bikeway progressive widening Stage 3 Full list of local bikeways (South): ? Yeronga Bikeway (Woodlea St to Fairfield Rd) ? Great Eastern Arterial, Coorparoo (Whites Hill Reserve - Norman Creek) ? Tarragindi Bikeway Stage 1 (Evans Rd to Pope St) ? Tarragindi Bikeway Stage 2 (Pope St - Cracknell Rd) ? Moorooka Greenway, Tarragindi (Mayfield St to Sunshine Ave through Tarragindi Rec Res) ? Orient Road Park, Yeronga ? Tonks St, Moorooka ? Great Southern Greenway (Vendale Ave - Toohey Forest) ? Toohey Forest - Ridge Track to SEF Bikeway ? Algoori St - Lytton Rd, Morningside ? South Eastern Feeder Norman Creek (Greenslopes Busway Station to Birdwood Rd) ? Carina Heights Stage 1 (Gallipoli Rd - Gaffney St) ? Carina Heights Stage 2 (Gaffney St - Creek Rd) ? Lambertia Cl - Donnington St, Carina ? Bridgewater Ck - Old Cleveland Rd to Temple St ? Riverwalk KP Stage 2 (Bright Street - Holman Street) ? Barwon St- Lytton Rd (Colmslie Pool) ? C B Mott Park, Holland Park ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Wishart Stage 2 (Wishart Community Park) ? Carina Heights Stage 1 (Gallipoli Rd - Gaffney St) ? Carina Heights Stage 2 (Gaffney St - Creek Rd) ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Macgregor (SE Freeway Bikeway to DM Henderson Park) ? Bulimba Creek Bikeway, Wishart Stage 3 (Bellbird Crescent to Stackpole Street) ? Lambertia Cl - Donnington St, Carina ? Bridgewater Ck - Old Cleveland Rd to Temple St ? Great Southern Greenway, Calamvale (Hellawell Road - Algester Rd) ? Willawong Bikeway (Forest Lake to Algester via Pallara) ? Greenways Esplanade, Parkinson ? Beryl Roberts Park, Coopers Plains ? Jindalee Bikeway, Mt Ommaney Dr - Kooringal Dr ? Oxley Creek Greenway, Corinda (Strickland Tce - Oxley Common) Stage 2 ? Willawong Bikeway (Forest Lake to Algester via Pallara) ? John Magee Park (Counihan Rd), Seventeen Mile Rocks ? Eden Brooke Greenway (Ashridge Road - Darra Train Station), Darra ? Pampling St, Seventeen Mile Rocks - existing bikeway (UBD 198 B9) ? Wacol Rail Trail- Viking Drive- Campbell Ave ? Wynnum Road mad mile (Manly Rd - Preston Rd) ? Arafura Cr - Soloman Cr - Castlerea St, Tingalpa ? Gateway South (Lytton Rd - Murarrie Rec Reserve) ? Algoori Street, Morningside ? Lytton Road cycle link (Junction Rd - Gateway Upgrade) [Ends] June 11, 2008 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081030/33a4bf64/attachment.htm From michael at yeatesit.biz Wed Oct 29 18:30:08 2008 From: michael at yeatesit.biz (Michael Yeates) Date: Wed Oct 29 18:30:21 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] CanDo's Cycling Fund In-Reply-To: <388589.20393.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <388589.20393.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081029233003.MSVI8195.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> The CanDo bikeways (= bikepath?) $100m package may best be considered in the same way as his purchasing lots more buses while getting rid of bus lanes while building more roads. In other words, he is #1 for building more roads and increasing capacity on existing roads ... but then promoting his support (?) for buses and for cycling (and the 40km/h in the CBD is promoted as support for walking). Another example is illustrated by a report in the current Westside News. CityCat terminuses are being allocated depending on developer funding rather than on transport network priority need. This would seem to imply that all of the locations selected by Council have the same priority from a transport perspective ... highly unlikely in fact. But is this support for buses and cycling and walking more about (i) promoting or being able to promote his "greening" of transport (hence the endless comparisons with the previous administration) and/or (ii) appealing to those for whom his extra buses and new bikepaths appeal ... many of whom will be current users who do benefit but most others will be motorists who won't or will rarely use the buses or the bikepaths ... or people from other parts of Brisbane who won't directly see any benefits. From a transport perspective, many if not most of these cycling projects appear to be about as far away as possible from main roads most of which reflect historic more or less direct desire lines and connections .... and more importantly, gradients. Few if any of these main roads seem to be included in this or other of his funding packages for cycling or walking. What other funds are allocated for cycling? But then the whole piece is written in a rather exaggerated if not superlative style ... so more likely to be accepted by or appeal to those not aware of the need or the relatively few for whom there IS a benefit. Many of the proposed and existing paths seem to parallel reasonably quiet roads and many more parallel quiet back streets (as eg the existing Oxley Creek path) which from a transport as distinct from recreation "need" is next to useless prioritisation of funding. One of the projects said to be funded from the $100m (but strangely it is not obvious on the list??) consists of a useful shortcut bridge and a path through a park but then also provides a (completely unnecessary?) section of path beside a very quiet almost local street in the Centenary Ward. What we DO need is often the connections ... the road crossings and intersections ... which are "missing" and thus disconnect the bits and pieces being built. It is as if "they" are scared to build a quality route .. might generate too many people cycling ... etc. Yet having been involved in the development of quite a bit of the link from Shaw Road to RBH and Gregory Terrace (mainly on-road and much of it the first of its type ever in Brisbane or Qld) back in the early to mid 1990s, it is obvious that (i) there MUST be on-road links and (ii) the missing links MUST be removed or addressed as they act as very significant barriers. The aim is a very dense and very connected network. Put another way, is it surprising there isn't a map of the proposed bits and pieces? What would it show? More of the same disconnected network? With some extensions and additions ... and exceptions of course ...? The other approach is to see what detail exists for the grandly named "Greenways" and how much exists and is proposed. One example is the $3-5m likely end cost of the shared footpath beside Hillside Terrace and The Esplanade at St Lucia ... a route used by large numbers of all sorts of cyclists for at least 20 years and probably more .... where instead of improving the road route for cyclists, that was refused by Council because there is a "GREENWAY" being built ... yes ... it too is in the parks and golf course etc immediately adjacent to and parallel to the road. MY.................. At 10:57 PM 29/10/2008, mich rolling wrote: >CanDoNewman came up with this list of bikeways back in June. > >No pricings and most of them are unknown to me. > >Does anyone have a map showing where they are and something of a >priority list for their implementation? > >Massive boost to bikeways and active travel >Written on the 11th of June 2008 >Campbell Newman Lord Mayor BUDGET 2008-09 MEDIA RELEASE >1106 Budget - Active Transport From akayani at aapt.net.au Thu Oct 30 06:10:44 2008 From: akayani at aapt.net.au (Yani) Date: Thu Oct 30 06:10:54 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] We are cyclists... In-Reply-To: <20081029233003.MSVI8195.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> References: <388589.20393.qm@web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20081029233003.MSVI8195.nschwotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yit01.yeatesit.biz> Message-ID: <0AD22EE6419649B38C0AF745B1E88FB6@maud> http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4 Have a laugh... not too far from how we are seen. Yani From xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au Thu Oct 30 07:31:37 2008 From: xdollarfuel at yahoo.com.au (mich rolling) Date: Thu Oct 30 07:31:48 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] Bending the Western Bikeway for the tunnel Message-ID: <828272.8874.qm@web44802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hopefully the Northern Tunnel consortium will pay to 'make good' any changes necessary to the Western Freeway cycleway. ? I remember an exchange recorded in the Courier Mail from CanDo back when the first call for comments on the Northern Link went out; reporter (something along the lines) 'will people whose property will be devalued by the tunnel be able to get compensation' , CanDo (along the lines); 'no, the idea for the tunnel has been on the books for twenty-odd years so they can't claim they did not know what might happen and they bought knowing the risk'. ? Tunnellers started planning the tunnel back then and presumeably did not object to the SUP overpass so no recourse for the cost of changing the bridge or its path. ? Bikeway may bend for Northern Link tunnel http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bikeway-may-bend-for-northern-link-tunnel/2008/10/30/1224956219897.html Tony Moore | October 30, 2008 - 3:25PM A new $4 million bikeway bridge being built in Toowong may have to be modified to suit the final design of the multi-billion dollar Northern Link tunnel project, city planners have conceded Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au..dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081030/f970f548/attachment.htm From museduca at bigpond.net.au Thu Oct 30 14:45:10 2008 From: museduca at bigpond.net.au (Dave Mc) Date: Thu Oct 30 14:45:36 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist movie In-Reply-To: <200810301700.m9UH0EVU002021@laika.gnusto.com> References: <200810301700.m9UH0EVU002021@laika.gnusto.com> Message-ID: <22B031CC97DB404B9C9E585DD39B7556@acer6dff78d94b> Excellent- downloaded and saved- not bad. Cringe material but yes how quite a few people tend to see us! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:10:44 +1000 From: "Yani" Subject: [bikeqld] We are cyclists... To: Message-ID: <0AD22EE6419649B38C0AF745B1E88FB6@maud> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4 Have a laugh... not too far from how we are seen. Yani ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: mich rolling Subject: [bikeqld] Bending the Western Bikeway for the tunnel To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <828272.8874.qm@web44802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hopefully the Northern Tunnel consortium will pay to 'make good' any changes necessary to the Western Freeway cycleway. B I remember an exchange recorded in the Courier Mail from CanDo back when the first call for comments on the Northern Link went out; reporter (something along the lines) 'will people whose property will be devalued by the tunnel be able to get compensation' , CanDo (along the lines); 'no, the idea for the tunnel has been on the books for twenty-odd years so they can't claim they did not know what might happen and they bought knowing the risk'. B Tunnellers started planning the tunnel back then and presumeably did not object to the SUP overpass so no recourse for the cost of changing the bridge or its path. B Bikeway may bend for Northern Link tunnel http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bikeway-may-bend-for-norther n-link-tunnel/2008/10/30/1224956219897.html Tony Moore | October 30, 2008 - 3:25PM A new $4 million bikeway bridge being built in Toowong may have to be modified to suit the final design of the multi-billion dollar Northern Link tunnel project, city planners have conceded Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au..dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081030/f970f548/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 38, Issue 22 *************************************** From pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au Thu Oct 30 15:56:03 2008 From: pjl.whittle at optusnet.com.au (PJL Whittle) Date: Thu Oct 30 15:56:15 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist movie In-Reply-To: <22B031CC97DB404B9C9E585DD39B7556@acer6dff78d94b> References: <200810301700.m9UH0EVU002021@laika.gnusto.com> <22B031CC97DB404B9C9E585DD39B7556@acer6dff78d94b> Message-ID: Mostly accurate, but I tend to avoid dogs like that. Ever seen the pic of the squirrel that mashed somebody's fork? LOL -----Original Message----- From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] On Behalf Of Dave Mc Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 5:45 AM To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist movie Excellent- downloaded and saved- not bad. Cringe material but yes how quite a few people tend to see us! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:10:44 +1000 From: "Yani" Subject: [bikeqld] We are cyclists... To: Message-ID: <0AD22EE6419649B38C0AF745B1E88FB6@maud> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4 Have a laugh... not too far from how we are seen. Yani ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: mich rolling Subject: [bikeqld] Bending the Western Bikeway for the tunnel To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au Message-ID: <828272.8874.qm@web44802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hopefully the Northern Tunnel consortium will pay to 'make good' any changes necessary to the Western Freeway cycleway. B I remember an exchange recorded in the Courier Mail from CanDo back when the first call for comments on the Northern Link went out; reporter (something along the lines) 'will people whose property will be devalued by the tunnel be able to get compensation' , CanDo (along the lines); 'no, the idea for the tunnel has been on the books for twenty-odd years so they can't claim they did not know what might happen and they bought knowing the risk'. B Tunnellers started planning the tunnel back then and presumeably did not object to the SUP overpass so no recourse for the cost of changing the bridge or its path. B Bikeway may bend for Northern Link tunnel http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bikeway-may-bend-for-norther n-link-tunnel/2008/10/30/1224956219897.html Tony Moore | October 30, 2008 - 3:25PM A new $4 million bikeway bridge being built in Toowong may have to be modified to suit the final design of the multi-billion dollar Northern Link tunnel project, city planners have conceded Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au..dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081030/f970f548/at tachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 38, Issue 22 *************************************** _______________________________________________ bikeqld mailing list bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. From ben at creative-engineering.com.au Thu Oct 30 20:14:33 2008 From: ben at creative-engineering.com.au (Ben Guymer) Date: Thu Oct 30 20:14:57 2008 Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist movie References: <200810301700.m9UH0EVU002021@laika.gnusto.com><22B031CC97DB404B9C9E585DD39B7556@acer6dff78d94b> Message-ID: dude.. but they're biodegradeable (hmm.. the leashes are trouble tho) lol > Mostly accurate, but I tend to avoid dogs like that. Ever seen the pic of > the squirrel that mashed somebody's fork? > > LOL > > -----Original Message----- > From: bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au > [mailto:bikeqld-bounces@bikeqld.org.au] > On Behalf Of Dave Mc > Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 5:45 AM > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Subject: [bikeqld] cyclist movie > > > Excellent- downloaded and saved- not bad. Cringe material but yes how > quite > a few people tend to see us! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:10:44 +1000 > From: "Yani" > Subject: [bikeqld] We are cyclists... > To: > Message-ID: <0AD22EE6419649B38C0AF745B1E88FB6@maud> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4 > > Have a laugh... not too far from how we are seen. > > Yani > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:31:37 -0700 (PDT) > From: mich rolling > Subject: [bikeqld] Bending the Western Bikeway for the tunnel > To: bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > Message-ID: <828272.8874.qm@web44802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hopefully the Northern Tunnel consortium will pay to 'make good' any > changes > necessary to the Western Freeway cycleway. > B > I remember an exchange recorded in the Courier Mail from CanDo back when > the > first call for comments on the Northern Link went out; reporter (something > along the lines) 'will people whose property will be devalued by the > tunnel > be able to get compensation' , CanDo (along the lines); 'no, the idea for > the tunnel has been on the books for twenty-odd years so they can't claim > they did not know what might happen and they bought knowing the risk'. > B > Tunnellers started planning the tunnel back then and presumeably did not > object to the SUP overpass so no recourse for the cost of changing the > bridge or its path. > B > Bikeway may bend for Northern Link tunnel > http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/bikeway-may-bend-for-norther > n-link-tunnel/2008/10/30/1224956219897.html > Tony Moore | October 30, 2008 - 3:25PM > > > A new $4 million bikeway bridge being built in Toowong may have to be > modified to suit the final design of the multi-billion dollar Northern > Link > tunnel project, city planners have conceded > > > Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 > Dating. Get Started http://au..dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/pipermail/bikeqld/attachments/20081030/f970f548/at > tachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > > End of bikeqld Digest, Vol 38, Issue 22 > *************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > > _______________________________________________ > bikeqld mailing list > bikeqld@bikeqld.org.au > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/ > http://www.bikeqld.org.au/mailman/listinfo/bikeqld > This list has NO affiliation with Bicycle Queensland. > >